Joe Marino talks what the Bills have to do to beat KC in playoffs

[GoBills808]

39 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He has not. @Mikie2times has posted the stats. San Fran's defense has performed better against Mahomes in the playoffs than we have.

 

Shanahan's problem is he has been burdened with below average QB play for his entire tenure. It's a testament to his coaching that he's even gotten close to a Super Bowl win.

Yeah but we've been burdened w some of the best QB play in postseason history so it's basically the same thing 

[Mikey152]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Ravens are probably getting close as are the Steelers. Not that these men aren't great leaders and coaches, but after enough time elapses sometimes even great leaders have a more difficult time being heard.  I agree with Larry Bird https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/larry-bird-didnt-want-coaches-to-stay-in-the-organization-for-more-than-three-years-if-they-werent-winning#:~:text=Bird said he's been part,and that's how I feel." He basically said coaches become stale after 3 years. I don't suggest you flip your coach every three years but I agree with the argument against continuity at all costs. Growth is more likely to occur out of friction in my experience and the NFL is littered with historical examples of a new guy coming in and getting it done.

 

I also don't feel like McD is the reason we have consistent success. It's much more likely in my opinion to be Allen. I think BB and the Patriots taught us as much. So while you're forcing me to say we can only be consistently successful with McD I don't believe that is the case. We can win a Super Bowl and still be consistently successful and that's because of Josh. But if you forced me to choose between the Ravens and Bucs, I would say Bucs. I have been a fan since the Kelly years. I want to see one in my lifetime. I would trade a lot of AFC East Championships for just one. 

 

I think McD was beneficial in our rise. But if you want to get a few more horsepower out of this thing he is not the guy to figure out how. If that means a increased risk of being inconsistent I don't care. Even thought I don't believe that's what it means I still wouldn't care. I feel like as it stands our fate is already decided. We are talking about getting past the divisional round. We haven't even got to a Super Bowl which is the actual goal. 

 

Basketball and football aren't really the same thing, though...you can teach a new basketball system in a few weeks. Same with hockey and even baseball. 

 

I remember an interview with Tom Brady where he said he was super grateful he wasn't Alex Smith and had the same coordinators early in his career. It allowed him to keep building and even go back to old playbooks if they needed something from the well for an opponent.

 

Not to mention all the roster turnover with a new coach.

Edited June 10 by Mikey152

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

You thought the niners got below average QB play last season?  Even in the SB- he wasn’t bad.

 

I thought Purdy was outright bad in the Super Bowl. And the NFCCG for that matter. Any hint of pressure in the pocket and he just can't get the ball out cleanly. If it's a tight window he can't fit it in. Absolutely a limited player that will be a career backup as soon as he's out of Shanahan's shadow. Personally I think he's closer to Nick Mullins than Kirk Cousins but I know that's an unpopular opinion.

[Mikie2times]

45 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Basketball and football aren't really the same thing, though...you can teach a new basketball system in a few weeks. Same with hockey and even baseball. 

 

I remember an interview with Tom Brady where he said he was super grateful he wasn't Alex Smith and had the same coordinators early in his career. It allowed him to keep building and even go back to old playbooks if they needed something from the well for an opponent.

 

Not to mention all the roster turnover with a new coach.

What evidence do we have that a team is more likely to win a Super Bowl if they maintain the head coach? The only coaches in NFL history that would have taken longer than McD to win a Super Bowl with the same team would be John Madden and Bill Cowher.  That list will turn into just Bill Cowher if we don't win next year. 10 other coaches have won a Super Bowl with a new team or starting a career in the first two seasons. If this was a table game in Vegas nobody is putting money on McD. It's bad odds at this point which has been pointed out by many.

 

What do you think our competition thinks on this question?

 

Do you think Andy Reid and Zac Taylor would rather face McD and Allen or somebody else and Allen, somebody who is unknown at this time. I don't think either would hesitate to prefer the devil they know. This team is a flick away from a potential dynasty ender. They don't want anything that is rocking the boat in Western New York. Status quo is what they want. 

Edited June 10 by Mikie2times

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I thought Purdy was outright bad in the Super Bowl. And the NFCCG for that matter. Any hint of pressure in the pocket and he just can't get the ball out cleanly. If it's a tight window he can't fit it in. Absolutely a limited player that will be a career backup as soon as he's out of Shanahan's shadow. Personally I think he's closer to Nick Mullins than Kirk Cousins but I know that's an unpopular opinion.

I don’t think Purdy is a great QB by any means- but shanahan didn’t get below average QB plays last season.  Agree to disagree

[BillsFan130]

53 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I thought Purdy was outright bad in the Super Bowl. And the NFCCG for that matter. Any hint of pressure in the pocket and he just can't get the ball out cleanly. If it's a tight window he can't fit it in. Absolutely a limited player that will be a career backup as soon as he's out of Shanahan's shadow. Personally I think he's closer to Nick Mullins than Kirk Cousins but I know that's an unpopular opinion.

He was especially bad in that green bay game. He legit could not throw in that rain. (And wasn't even coming down hard)

 

Going to be a big problem for SF if they have bad weather games in the playoffs

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think Purdy is a great QB by any means- but shanahan didn’t get below average QB plays last season.  Agree to disagree

 

Either way bringing up Kyle Shanahan kind of dodges the whole point of the conversation. Ditto for John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin. Because none of those coaches have had a QB of Josh Allen's caliber in recent years. When Harbaugh and Tomlin had QBs performing at Allen's level in the playoffs they parlayed that into a Super Bowl win.

 

It kind of tells on itself that nobody on the pro-McDermott side has any facts to bring to the table. It's all a bunch of whataboutisms and finger pointing. Because frankly that's all there is to defend him. Not one statistic, not one data point, works in his favor as far as being a championship caliber coach. Quite the opposite actually. When you're at the point in your argument where you've stopped defending the man in question and you've instead started criticizing his peers, you've already lost the argument.

 

There's nothing anybody can point to that says McDermott is going to suddenly become a championship caliber coach. It is just blind faith. I just hope everybody is on the same page about what needs to happen if the team once again falters in the divisional round. If we're having the same exact debate next offseason with the same exact points that would really just be absurd, yes?

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

90s, thank you for the above.

 

However with respect to my comment from early...I meant the feeling of what I said, but not the way I said it.

 

I came across as jerky or slightly confrontational when there was no reason to be.  I am sorry, my friend.  I was in a mood, but no way should that spill over to members of this board.

 

That's completely on me and unlike me and I own up to it.

 

Thank you for all your comments, btw.

 

Have a good one and Go Bills!

 

I appreciate the comments my man. Apology is not necessary. You weren’t belligerent or rude. We’re just two fans expressing our opinions about the team we follow. It’s all good. Hope whatever got you upset is over with.

 

Have a great day!

[Ga boy]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Either way bringing up Kyle Shanahan kind of dodges the whole point of the conversation. Ditto for John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin. Because none of those coaches have had a QB of Josh Allen's caliber in recent years. When Harbaugh and Tomlin had QBs performing at Allen's level in the playoffs they parlayed that into a Super Bowl win.

 

It kind of tells on itself that nobody on the pro-McDermott side has any facts to bring to the table. It's all a bunch of whataboutisms and finger pointing. Because frankly that's all there is to defend him. Not one statistic, not one data point, works in his favor as far as being a championship caliber coach. Quite the opposite actually. When you're at the point in your argument where you've stopped defending the man in question and you've instead started criticizing his peers, you've already lost the argument.

 

There's nothing anybody can point to that says McDermott is going to suddenly become a championship caliber coach. It is just blind faith. I just hope everybody is on the same page about what needs to happen if the team once again falters in the divisional round. If we're having the same exact debate next offseason with the same exact points that would really just be absurd, yes?

With a pretty checkered roster on D last year, the team finished strong when things could’ve come off the tracks.  That’s evidence that he’s a good coach.  Is he as good as Tomlin and Harbaugh, maybe;  probably not as good as Shanny and Reid.  There’s not an available coach that we know for sure is better than what we’ve got.  That’s why he is still here.  If we don’t play in the AFC championship and look strong, he’s gotta go.  Give someone else a chance.  

[Mikey152]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Either way bringing up Kyle Shanahan kind of dodges the whole point of the conversation. Ditto for John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin. Because none of those coaches have had a QB of Josh Allen's caliber in recent years. When Harbaugh and Tomlin had QBs performing at Allen's level in the playoffs they parlayed that into a Super Bowl win.

 

It kind of tells on itself that nobody on the pro-McDermott side has any facts to bring to the table. It's all a bunch of whataboutisms and finger pointing. Because frankly that's all there is to defend him. Not one statistic, not one data point, works in his favor as far as being a championship caliber coach. Quite the opposite actually. When you're at the point in your argument where you've stopped defending the man in question and you've instead started criticizing his peers, you've already lost the argument.

 

There's nothing anybody can point to that says McDermott is going to suddenly become a championship caliber coach. It is just blind faith. I just hope everybody is on the same page about what needs to happen if the team once again falters in the divisional round. If we're having the same exact debate next offseason with the same exact points that would really just be absurd, yes?

Not one stat?  Really?

 

Over the last 5 years, his team has the second best record in football, the third most points per game AND the lowest opponents points per game...which means the best point differential in the NFL.

 

Over the last 4 years, he has lost to the Chiefs three times in the playoffs. Clearly they are a problem in the post-season for whatever reason. But to be fair, 2021 we should have won. This year injuries played a huge factor. 2020, the Chiefs were a better team.

 

Maybe if we fire McDermott, it gets us over the hump and we win a SB. But I would also bet money that whatever coach we bring in won't be as successful long term. The longer they are here and implement their processes, my guess is they are worse than McDermott...I mean, it would be hard not to be.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

But I would also bet money that whatever coach we bring in won't be as successful long term

I don't really understand this logic? How many coaches in the NFL do you think can win 1 playoff game per year with Josh Allen?

 

I'm not on the fire McD train, but I do think there's a little "damning with faint praise" here.

 

I think Mike Tomlin wins a playoff game with Josh. I think both Harbaugh's could too. I think Reid could. I think BB could. I think Sean Payton could. I think all of the Shanny disciples could: LaFleur, McVay, KOC, McDaniel etc etc. I think Dan Campbell could. I think Doug Pederson could.

 

The point differential stat is nice. Maybe it wouldn't be as good. But I would trade a worse point differential stat for going further in the postseason, personally. And I would think winning an additional postseason game or two or three would be worth slipping in the point differential over 5 years stat.

[Mikey152]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don't really understand this logic? How many coaches in the NFL do you think can win 1 playoff game per year with Josh Allen?

 

I'm not on the fire McD train, but I do think there's a little "damning with faint praise" here.

 

I think Mike Tomlin wins a playoff game with Josh. I think both Harbaugh's could too. I think Reid could. I think BB could. I think Sean Payton could. I think all of the Shanny disciples could: LaFleur, McVay, KOC, McDaniel etc etc. I think Dan Campbell could. I think Doug Pederson could.

 

The point differential stat is nice. Maybe it wouldn't be as good. But I would trade a worse point differential stat for going further in the postseason, personally. And I would think winning an additional postseason game or two or three would be worth slipping in the point differential over 5 years stat.

I think there is a little bit TOO MUCH put on Josh Allen on these boards.

 

If it is truly all about the quarterback, then you shouldn't even be mad. Josh Allen (you know, not the Bills) has lost to Mahomes and Burrow since he became JOSH ALLEN. You could make an argument that both of those guys are as good or better. 

 

If it is all about the quarterback, then maybe the problem is the Chiefs and Bengals have a better one. Maybe it's not that McDermott isn't better than Reid...it's that Josh isn't better than Pat and we need to start over at QB if we are ever gonna win.

Edited June 11 by Mikey152

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

I think there is a little bit TOO MUCH put on Josh Allen on these boards.

 

If it is truly all about the quarterback, then you shouldn't even be mad. Josh Allen (you know, not the Bills) has lost to Mahomes and Burrow since he became JOSH ALLEN. You could make an argument that both of those guys are as good or better. 

 

If it is all about the quarterback, then maybe the problem is the Chiefs and Bengals have a better one

I would be very interested to hear your argument that Burrow is better

[Mikey152]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I would be very interested to hear your argument that Burrow is better

He has beaten Mahomes in the playoffs?

 

The only other guy to do it is Tom Brady...

Edited June 11 by Mikey152

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Not one stat?  Really?

 

Over the last 5 years, his team has the second best record in football, the third most points per game AND the lowest opponents points per game...which means the best point differential in the NFL.

 

This is an argument that he is a good regular season coach. Not that he's a championship caliber coach.

 

What, to you, is McDermott's signature playoff coaching performance? The only answer I ever get to this question is the Ravens game in hurricane winds. And you know what, even accounting for the hurricane winds, I will concede that McDermott has done a great job of containing Lamar Jackson over his career. You could argue he and Leslie Frazier wrote the book on how to do that. But also that isn't enough. Super Bowl championships require consecutive great coaching performances as much as they require consecutive great player performances. And there just isn't any evidence that McDermott is capable of turning in that sort of streak.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mikey152 said:

He has beaten Mahomes in the playoffs?

 

The only other guy to do it is Tom Brady...

😂😂 Such a casual take

 

Never mind I'm no longer interested 

[Mikey152]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

This is an argument that he is a good regular season coach. Not that he's a championship caliber coach.

 

What, to you, is McDermott's signature playoff coaching performance? The only answer I ever get to this question is the Ravens game in hurricane winds. And you know what, even accounting for the hurricane winds, I will concede that McDermott has done a great job of containing Lamar Jackson over his career. You could argue he and Leslie Frazier wrote the book on how to do that. But also that isn't enough. Super Bowl championships require consecutive great coaching performances as much as they require consecutive great player performances. And there just isn't any evidence that McDermott is capable of turning in that sort of streak.

Signature coaching win?  Are you serious? Coaches are coaches. What, exactly, do you think a HC can do to "win" a game? A HC, at its core, is a management job. 

 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

He has beaten Mahomes in the playoffs?

 

The only other guy to do it is Tom Brady...

 

He has had better receivers than Allen. Better performance by his defense as well. Mahomes, Allen and Burrow are all great QB's. Football is the ultimate team sport, and one could argue the Chiefs no doubt and possibly the Bengals have had better teams and coaching than the Bills.

[Mikey152]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂 Such a casual take

 

Never mind I'm no longer interested 

To be fair, everyone says that the only reason the Bills win is Josh Allen. That QB is the reason you win. If that is true, then logically, if you lose it is because the other team had a better QB. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

He has had better receivers than Allen. Better performance by his defense as well. Mahomes, Allen and Burrow are all great QB's. Football is the ultimate team sport, and one could argue the Chiefs no doubt and possibly the Bengals have had better teams and coaching than the Bills.

Has he really had better receivers, though? I mean, last year his number one receiver was a second round rookie. Diggs >>> their whole receiving core, on paper. 

 

And sure, the Bengals have had a better receiving core...but their Oline is trash. 

Edited June 11 by Mikey152

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

What, exactly, do you think a HC can do to "win" a game? A HC, at its core, is a management job. 

 

Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo turned in signature coaching performances in the AFCCG and Super Bowl this past year. If you don't think coaching has an impact on the outcome of the game we are miles apart in our thinking. But also in that case why are you so resistant to moving on from McDermott? If it's just a management job?