Joe Marino talks what the Bills have to do to beat KC in playoffs

[BillsFan130]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes——-there is more to it.  I’ve never said injuries are the only reason…..but without them (and added injuries to KC) and I think we would’ve beaten them this past season. 

 

Coaching, execution and injuries. If you take out all the poorly executed plays and replace them with executed plays, I think we win that game.  Same goes for coaching.  Same goes for injuries.  All 3 combined and we couldn’t overcome a great team that was fairly healthy 

I do agree with that part as I think if the bills had their key guys, they probably win the game against them this year

[Mikie2times]

It was the same way in the Bengals game. We had injury's, so did they. The only divisional collapse this is even a conversation with is the last KC game yet some posters want to blanket this excuse as a catch all 

 

Mahomes stats facing teams more than once in the playoffs. We can't even present a speed bump. How can anybody expect that to change? It's three games not just one. 

 

 

I've said this before and nobody has ever responded. I don't think a response exists. 

 

Joe Burrow has 3 opening drives vs Buffalo (including the cancel game) he is 14 or 14 for 181 yards and 3 TD's. Bills fans think KC is the only team where McD's shortcomings are relevant. We have shown no ability to hang with the Bengals regardless of when the game is played. Our undersized zone defense gets abused by land and air when it matters. 

 

Edited June 9 by Mikie2times

[Mikey152]

In Alex Smith's first 7 seasons he had 6 different OCs.

 

When Harbaugh and Roman arrived in SF, he pretty much became the guy he was in KC...an excellent game manager. Reid didn't make him, dude was a #1 overall pick who suffered for years on a poorly run team. 

 

Everyone wants to give Reid credit for elevating his QBs, while slamming McD for holding his QB back...All the while, they forget that Mcnabb, Smith and Mahomes were ALL better prospects than JA coming out. It's clear that McD is in a no win position unless he wins a SB. A generational QB that every talking head thought was a bust and the second best record in the NFL the last 5 years...zero credit. It's a joke.

 

 

Edited June 10 by Mikey152

[Ga boy]

On 6/8/2024 at 6:51 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Reid also got to build his team into a contender under Alex Smith where they were consistently winning... And the reigns to mahomes with a team ready to win 

 

The bills gutted the roster Josh Allen's rookie year and was good by year three.. but there were plenty of people who were not even sold on Josh Allen going into year three 

 

The bills as a team grew with Josh Allen...

 

Patrick mahomes got a team that was ready to contend... Sure we could have beat them the last few years and haven't but I believe we can and we are very close

I see Mahomey and Josh cancel each other out.  Kelce is the difference.  That guy kills us.

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

In Alex Smith's first 7 seasons he had 6 different OCs.

 

When Harbaugh and Roman arrived in SF, he pretty much became the guy he was in KC...an excellent game manager. Reid didn't make him, dude was a #1 overall pick who suffered for years on a poorly run team. 

 

Everyone wants to give Reid credit for elevating his QBs, while slamming McD for holding his QB back...All the while, they forget that Mcnabb, Smith and Mahomes were ALL better prospects than JA coming out. It's clear that McD is in a no win position unless he wins a SB. A generational QB that every talking head thought was a bust and the second best record in the NFL the last 5 years...zero credit. It's a joke.

 

 

There really shouldn't be any confusion as to why the guy who insisted Nate Peterman was a starting NFL quarterback doesn't get a lot of credit for developing Allen 

[Mikey152]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

There really shouldn't be any confusion as to why the guy who insisted Nate Peterman was a starting NFL quarterback doesn't get a lot of credit for developing Allen 

Over AJ McCarron and Rookie JA. He benched Peterman after one week.

 

Also, Peterman is still in the NFL. 

[Mikie2times]

59 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

In Alex Smith's first 7 seasons he had 6 different OCs.

 

When Harbaugh and Roman arrived in SF, he pretty much became the guy he was in KC...an excellent game manager. Reid didn't make him, dude was a #1 overall pick who suffered for years on a poorly run team. 

 

Everyone wants to give Reid credit for elevating his QBs, while slamming McD for holding his QB back...All the while, they forget that Mcnabb, Smith and Mahomes were ALL better prospects than JA coming out. It's clear that McD is in a no win position unless he wins a SB. A generational QB that every talking head thought was a bust and the second best record in the NFL the last 5 years...zero credit. It's a joke.

 

 

So is McD going over progressions with Allen? Coaching him on his technique? Diagraming plays for the offense? Working with him on fundamentals? I don't believe I have read one article since McD has been here from Allen or McD stating that he has had that level of oversight offensively. He has no offensive coaching experience in his career. So if McD gets credit for Allen, I guess that it's a pretty clear reason why people have different opinion of him.  

[Mikey152]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

So is McD going over progressions with Allen? Coaching him on his technique? Diagraming plays for the offense? Working with him on fundamentals? I don't believe I have read one article since McD has been here from Allen or McD stating that he has had that level of oversight offensively. He has no offensive coaching experience in his career. So if McD gets credit for Allen, I guess that it's a pretty clear reason why people have different opinion of him.  

Do you know what I think is hilarious...

 

People paint McD as both a control freak AND a completely hands off idiot who doesn't know anything about offense.

 

If we run too much, it's McDermott's fault. If we throw 60 times, McDermott has nothing to do with it. It's silly. 100% confirmation bias. People don't like him so he gets all the blame and zero credit.

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Do you know what I think is hilarious...

 

People paint McD as both a control freak AND a completely hands off idiot who doesn't know anything about offense.

 

If we run too much, it's McDermott's fault. If we throw 60 times, McDermott has nothing to do with it. It's silly. 100% confirmation bias. People don't like him so he gets all the blame and zero credit.

No actual response. You give him credit for Allen, so what is it based on? If it's just being a strong leader I can support that. 

 

I promise you, not one actual Bills fan exists that wants Sean to fail. We want nothing more than for him to be hoisting the SB trophy as his most avid supporters rain I told you so's for the rest of eternity. Most people who "don't like him" don't think he can get it done past the Wild Card and have a lot of information to support that view. Specifically how the defense has performed which is his biggest area of focus on this team.  

[Mikey152]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

No actual response. You give him credit for Allen, so what is it based on? If it's just being a strong leader I can support that. 

 

I promise you, not one actual Bills fan exists that wants Sean to fail. We want nothing more than for him to be hoisting the SB trophy as his most avid supporters rain I told you so's for the rest of eternity. Most people who "don't like him" don't think he can get it done past the Wild Card and have a lot of information to support that view. Specifically how the defense has performed which is his biggest area of focus on this team.  

Sean Mcdermott is the head coach.

 

He picks the staff. He hired Daboll and Dorsey, who clearly did have an impact on JA. He also sets the agenda from the top and I am sure had quite a bit of influence on the offense and how it generally looks. He also leads the team and I am sure he is ultimately the only guy that JA is accountable to.

 

As for the defense, they've only ever lost to peak Watson, Mahomes, and Burrow. They crushed Lamar and the Ravens the year Lamar was all world and probably could have shut out the patriots in the perfect game if it wasn't garbage time. 

 

I don't really hold the Bengals against them. It was a tough season and the bengals were playing mad. They are also clearly a bad matchup for us. As for the Chiefs...it's tough to watch. I think they just find another gear in the playoffs.

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

As for the defense, they've only ever lost to peak Watson, Mahomes, and Burrow.

 

You realize this is an argument against McDermott, right?

[Mikie2times]

26 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Sean Mcdermott is the head coach.

 

He picks the staff. He hired Daboll and Dorsey, who clearly did have an impact on JA. He also sets the agenda from the top and I am sure had quite a bit of influence on the offense and how it generally looks. He also leads the team and I am sure he is ultimately the only guy that JA is accountable to.

 

As for the defense, they've only ever lost to peak Watson, Mahomes, and Burrow. They crushed Lamar and the Ravens the year Lamar was all world and probably could have shut out the patriots in the perfect game if it wasn't garbage time. 

 

I don't really hold the Bengals against them. It was a tough season and the bengals were playing mad. They are also clearly a bad matchup for us. As for the Chiefs...it's tough to watch. I think they just find another gear in the playoffs.

I don't think Allen can grow anymore with McD and I don't think McD leaving would result in a reduction in performance by Allen. So while I agree you can give him credit in the ways you discuss I don't know what that means for future growth and development.    

 

I don't really care as much what our defense can do outside of a few names. Josh will clean up what happens outside of a few games. Teams that have a QB with over a 65 QBR (which is Allen every year) have over a 70% winning % since 2020. Allen will clean up a lot of noise with these average squads. He needs help on the other side of the ball against the above average ones or he needs more weapons to help him win an arms race. What he doesn't need is more weapons to the defense and not getting the gains. That is on Sean. 

 

I do hold Sean accountable for the defenses performance in all of these games. Otherwise it becomes difficult to track what actually counts. We have some people not counting 2023 because of injuries. We have some people not counting 2022 because circumstances. Eventually they just have to count. Eventually we have to consider if this is part of a broader trend. 

 

Appreciate the response, just different POV's clearly 

 

 

Edited June 10 by Mikie2times

[Mikey152]

24 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I don't think Allen can grow anymore with McD and I don't think McD leaving would result in a reduction in performance by Allen. So while I agree you can give him credit in the ways you discuss I don't know what that means for future growth and development.    

 

I don't really care as much what our defense can do outside of a few names. Josh will clean up what happens outside of a few games. Teams that have a QB with over a 65 QBR (which is Allen every year) have over a 70% winning % since 2020. Allen will clean up a lot of noise with these average squads. He needs help on the other side of the ball against the above average ones or he needs more weapons to help him win an arms race. What he doesn't need is more weapons to the defense and not getting the gains. That is on Sean. 

 

I do hold Sean accountable for the defenses performance in all of these games. Otherwise it becomes difficult to track what actually counts. We have some people not counting 2023 because of injuries. We have some people not counting 2022 because circumstances. Eventually they just have to count. Eventually we have to consider if this is part of a broader trend. 

 

Appreciate the response, just different POV's clearly 

 

 

Let me ask you a different question...do you think the Ravens should fire John Harbaugh? Should the Steelers fire Mike Tomlin? In general, should only OCs be head coaches? I get they have both won SBs, but they were both over a decade ago. I remember when I was in college, people said the same things about Bill Cowher that we are saying now. And fans in NE said the same about BB when he lost to Rex and the Jets.

 

Would you rather be the Ravens over the last 10 years, or the Bucaneers?

 

We are so outcome focused sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Let me ask you a different question...do you think the Ravens should fire John Harbaugh? Should the Steelers fire Mike Tomlin? In general, should only OCs be head coaches? I get they have both won SBs, but they were both over a decade ago. I remember when I was in college, people said the same things about Bill Cowher that we are saying now. And fans in NE said the same about BB when he lost to Rex and the Jets.

 

Would you rather be the Ravens over the last 10 years, or the Bucaneers?

 

We are so outcome focused sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

I’d throw in should the niners fire Shanahan?  He can’t beat mahomes- pretty sure he’s 0-4 lifetime.  Bested twice in the Super Bowl.  
 

Obviously the answer is no, but McDermott has faired MUCH better vs Mahomes and Reid than Shanahan has.  KC is the standard and he’s o’fer.  McD just can’t beat them in the playoffs…..same for shanahan 

[Mikie2times]

13 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Let me ask you a different question...do you think the Ravens should fire John Harbaugh? Should the Steelers fire Mike Tomlin? In general, should only OCs be head coaches? I get they have both won SBs, but they were both over a decade ago. I remember when I was in college, people said the same things about Bill Cowher that we are saying now. And fans in NE said the same about BB when he lost to Rex and the Jets.

 

Would you rather be the Ravens over the last 10 years, or the Bucaneers?

 

We are so outcome focused sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

Ravens are probably getting close as are the Steelers. Not that these men aren't great leaders and coaches, but after enough time elapses sometimes even great leaders have a more difficult time being heard.  I agree with Larry Bird https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/larry-bird-didnt-want-coaches-to-stay-in-the-organization-for-more-than-three-years-if-they-werent-winning#:~:text=Bird said he's been part,and that's how I feel." He basically said coaches become stale after 3 years. I don't suggest you flip your coach every three years but I agree with the argument against continuity at all costs. Growth is more likely to occur out of friction in my experience and the NFL is littered with historical examples of a new guy coming in and getting it done.

 

I also don't feel like McD is the reason we have consistent success. It's much more likely in my opinion to be Allen. I think BB and the Patriots taught us as much. So while you're forcing me to say we can only be consistently successful with McD I don't believe that is the case. We can win a Super Bowl and still be consistently successful and that's because of Josh. But if you forced me to choose between the Ravens and Bucs, I would say Bucs. I have been a fan since the Kelly years. I want to see one in my lifetime. I would trade a lot of AFC East Championships for just one. 

 

I think McD was beneficial in our rise. But if you want to get a few more horsepower out of this thing he is not the guy to figure out how. If that means a increased risk of being inconsistent I don't care. Even thought I don't believe that's what it means I still wouldn't care. I feel like as it stands our fate is already decided. We are talking about getting past the divisional round. We haven't even got to a Super Bowl which is the actual goal. 

 

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Let me ask you a different question...do you think the Ravens should fire John Harbaugh? Should the Steelers fire Mike Tomlin? In general, should only OCs be head coaches? I get they have both won SBs, but they were both over a decade ago. I remember when I was in college, people said the same things about Bill Cowher that we are saying now. And fans in NE said the same about BB when he lost to Rex and the Jets.

 

Would you rather be the Ravens over the last 10 years, or the Bucaneers?

 

We are so outcome focused sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

The Steelers should 100% fire Tomlin lol. They haven’t won a playoff game since the Obama administration. 

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I’d throw in should the niners fire Shanahan?  He can’t beat mahomes- pretty sure he’s 0-4 lifetime.  Bested twice in the Super Bowl.  
 

Obviously the answer is no, but McDermott has faired MUCH better vs Mahomes and Reid than Shanahan has.  KC is the standard and he’s o’fer.  McD just can’t beat them in the playoffs…..same for shanahan 

 

No he hasn't

[HappyDays]

Just now, NewEra said:

Obviously the answer is no, but McDermott has faired MUCH better vs Mahomes and Reid than Shanahan has.  KC is the standard and he’s o’fer.

 

He has not. @Mikie2times has posted the stats. San Fran's defense has performed better against Mahomes in the playoffs than we have.

 

Shanahan's problem is he has been burdened with below average QB play for his entire tenure. It's a testament to his coaching that he's even gotten close to a Super Bowl win.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He has not. @Mikie2times has posted the stats. San Fran's defense has performed better against Mahomes in the playoffs than we have.

 

Shanahan's problem is he has been burdened with below average QB play for his entire tenure. It's a testament to his coaching that he's even gotten close to a Super Bowl win.

Yeah, I realize all of this-  he is SF’s Josh Allen.  He’s the main reason they were in the SB imo.  
 

But it’s also his philosophy as to why they don’t have a top QB. Lynch took one failed stab at Lance.  Other than that- they haven’t attempted to land a big fish unless you consider Jimmy G a big fish. He wanted Cmc and is ok giving up many picks and paying him almost 20M to be the back in his offense. He wants weapons.  He’s paying for them.  
 

You thought the niners got below average QB play last season?  Even in the SB- he wasn’t bad. He just didn’t do enough.  Shanahans offense didn’t do enough for him either. 
 

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 6/8/2024 at 1:44 AM, 90sBills said:

Of course anyone is free to feel anyway they want. The team that we beat ‘under their sun’ as you put it has also beaten us under ‘our sun’ to send us home for the season. Our victories over them were meaningless speed bumps on their way to championships. Fretting over a Cincy team that we have only faced ONCE in the playoffs while discounting a KC team that we’ve faced THREE times in the playoffs without winning once seems misplaced. But, like you said, we’re free to be concerned with whomever we want. I’ll be concerned about Cincy if and when we ever meet them in the playoffs again.

 

 

90s, thank you for the above.

 

However with respect to my comment from early...I meant the feeling of what I said, but not the way I said it.

 

I came across as jerky or slightly confrontational when there was no reason to be.  I am sorry, my friend.  I was in a mood, but no way should that spill over to members of this board.

 

That's completely on me and unlike me and I own up to it.

 

Thank you for all your comments, btw.

 

Have a good one and Go Bills!

 

Edited June 10 by dollars 2 donuts