Success Posted June 8 Posted June 8 9 hours ago, folz said: I'm a little late to this party, so I'm just going to throw in a couple of random thoughts/arguments I had reading the thread. First of all, for all of those posters sick of people using Reid as some sort of comparison, it is just as annoying for posters to keep saying we should have multiple Super Bowls or be in the Super Bowl every other year at least just because we have Josh Allen. And since we haven't been, it means McDermott sucks or can/will never get over the hump. HOF Dan Marino, HOF Jim Kelly, HOF Fran Tarkenton, HOF Warren Moon, HOF Dan Fouts, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Steve McNair, Matt Ryan = 0 Super Bowls (future HOF) Aaron Rodgers, (future HOF) Drew Brees, HOF Brett Favre = 1 Super Bowl each (You could actually kind of add HOF Peyton Manning to this list as he was dragged along to his 2nd Super Bowl) So, let's just look at the current or soon-to-be HOFers on those lists. That is 9 Hall of Fame quarterbacks (four of which, at least, you could argue as Top Five All-Time QBs). Combined, they played 154 seasons of NFL football and yet have just 4 Super Bowl rings between them. That's 150 seasons with no rings for these HOF QBs. Just having a great QB does not guarantee Super Bowls. Now you could counter by saying, yeah, well if they didn't have good coaches, it's the same thing as the Bills situation. But in case you forgot, here is a the list of their head coaches: HOF Don Shula, HOF Marv Levy, HOF Bud Grant, HOF Don Coryell, HOF Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren, Sean Payton Winning a Super Bowl is not as easy as some of you guys think. Just because you have an elite QB, does not guarantee Super Bowls, even with a HOF coach. There are so many factors to a football team and how their season plays out, plus lady luck (in regards to injuries, lucky bounces of the ball, etc.). There is context to every situation. And second, as far as getting over the KC hump, yes, we lost to them three times, but I don't see beating them in the playoffs as some insurmountable task. This is the way I kind of look at the three playoff games vs. the Chiefs: 2020: Bills first real taste/test in playoffs, KC was just the better and more seasoned team (both players and coaches); Beasley on a broken foot, and a bad knee; Diggs with an oblique injury; and the refs allowed the KC DBs to hold and manhandle our receivers all game long (just rewatch how unbalanced it was officiating-wise, now some of that too could just be a little lack of playoff experience and knowing that the refs let more go in the playoffs---but it was pretty bad on the refs part, imo). Not saying we would have won otherwise, just another factor. But, the Bills just weren't ready yet for a playoff-seasoned KC team as an up-and-coming team. 2021: The infamous 13 seconds. One of the greatest playoff games ever played. Let's face it, whoever had the ball last was going to win that game...both defenses were gassed and had been gashed all game. Those two offenses that year were just perfection. Yes, you can blame coaching all you want, but it's on the players too. And what if we won the coin toss? What if he missed the 48-yard FG? Etc. Plus, you can question coaching decisions for every single team that lost a playoff game in the history of the NFL. Sometimes things just happen. How many playoff miracles are there, where the losing coach gets blamed? Lots. And how many NFL coaches post-1960 are perfect in the playoffs (have no losses that can be questioned)---Zero. Reid was blamed in Philly for bad game mangement and every one of his losses was questioned. Time to get over 13 seconds, it happened, and it's in the past. But this game was obviously a complete toss-up as far as the argument of us "getting over the KC hump" goes. 2024: Bills injuries: No Matt Milano, No Jordan Phillips, No Tre White, Taylor Rapp (out), Christian Benford (out), Terrell Bernard (out), Baylon Spector (out), Poona Ford (out), T. Johnson (playing after concussion the week before), Rasul Douglas playing through a knee injury, Gabe Davis (out), Sam Martin punting with a bum hamstring, it was only Micah Hyde's 2nd game back after being out all season, it was Daquan's 4th game back after being out 10 weeks, and whatever the heck was going on with Stefon (whether it was injury or he just quit on the team---21 yards and no TDs on 8 targets with a fumble). And we only lost by 3? That seems more like a plus for coaching rather than a minus, even though it still sure sucked to lose. People keep forgetting that last one. If the situation was reversed and KC had been missing that many key players, and the Bills were relatively healthy - that game likely isn't close, and is a decisive Bills win. 6 Quote
NewEra Posted June 8 Posted June 8 17 hours ago, Mikie2times said: Why do you think we would have slowed the Chiefs offense down or do you think we would have won despite not slowing them down? I can’t answer for him, but we slowed them down in december. Forced 4 punts and 2 turnovers. So maybe they why Quote
NewEra Posted June 8 Posted June 8 9 hours ago, folz said: I'm a little late to this party, so I'm just going to throw in a couple of random thoughts/arguments I had reading the thread. First of all, for all of those posters sick of people using Reid as some sort of comparison, it is just as annoying for posters to keep saying we should have multiple Super Bowls or be in the Super Bowl every other year at least just because we have Josh Allen. And since we haven't been, it means McDermott sucks or can/will never get over the hump. HOF Dan Marino, HOF Jim Kelly, HOF Fran Tarkenton, HOF Warren Moon, HOF Dan Fouts, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Steve McNair, Matt Ryan = 0 Super Bowls (future HOF) Aaron Rodgers, (future HOF) Drew Brees, HOF Brett Favre = 1 Super Bowl each (You could actually kind of add HOF Peyton Manning to this list as he was dragged along to his 2nd Super Bowl) So, let's just look at the current or soon-to-be HOFers on those lists. That is 9 Hall of Fame quarterbacks (four of which, at least, you could argue as Top Five All-Time QBs). Combined, they played 154 seasons of NFL football and yet have just 4 Super Bowl rings between them. That's 150 seasons with no rings for these HOF QBs. Just having a great QB does not guarantee Super Bowls. Now you could counter by saying, yeah, well if they didn't have good coaches, it's the same thing as the Bills situation. But in case you forgot, here is a the list of their head coaches: HOF Don Shula, HOF Marv Levy, HOF Bud Grant, HOF Don Coryell, HOF Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren, Sean Payton Winning a Super Bowl is not as easy as some of you guys think. Just because you have an elite QB, does not guarantee Super Bowls, even with a HOF coach. There are so many factors to a football team and how their season plays out, plus lady luck (in regards to injuries, lucky bounces of the ball, etc.). There is context to every situation. And second, as far as getting over the KC hump, yes, we lost to them three times, but I don't see beating them in the playoffs as some insurmountable task. This is the way I kind of look at the three playoff games vs. the Chiefs: 2020: Bills first real taste/test in playoffs, KC was just the better and more seasoned team (both players and coaches); Beasley on a broken foot, and a bad knee; Diggs with an oblique injury; and the refs allowed the KC DBs to hold and manhandle our receivers all game long (just rewatch how unbalanced it was officiating-wise, now some of that too could just be a little lack of playoff experience and knowing that the refs let more go in the playoffs---but it was pretty bad on the refs part, imo). Not saying we would have won otherwise, just another factor. But, the Bills just weren't ready yet for a playoff-seasoned KC team as an up-and-coming team. 2021: The infamous 13 seconds. One of the greatest playoff games ever played. Let's face it, whoever had the ball last was going to win that game...both defenses were gassed and had been gashed all game. Those two offenses that year were just perfection. Yes, you can blame coaching all you want, but it's on the players too. And what if we won the coin toss? What if he missed the 48-yard FG? Etc. Plus, you can question coaching decisions for every single team that lost a playoff game in the history of the NFL. Sometimes things just happen. How many playoff miracles are there, where the losing coach gets blamed? Lots. And how many NFL coaches post-1960 are perfect in the playoffs (have no losses that can be questioned)---Zero. Reid was blamed in Philly for bad game mangement and every one of his losses was questioned. Time to get over 13 seconds, it happened, and it's in the past. But this game was obviously a complete toss-up as far as the argument of us "getting over the KC hump" goes. 2024: Bills injuries: No Matt Milano, No Jordan Phillips, No Tre White, Taylor Rapp (out), Christian Benford (out), Terrell Bernard (out), Baylon Spector (out), Poona Ford (out), T. Johnson (playing after concussion the week before), Rasul Douglas playing through a knee injury, Gabe Davis (out), Sam Martin punting with a bum hamstring, it was only Micah Hyde's 2nd game back after being out all season, it was Daquan's 4th game back after being out 10 weeks, and whatever the heck was going on with Stefon (whether it was injury or he just quit on the team---21 yards and no TDs on 8 targets with a fumble). And we only lost by 3? That seems more like a plus for coaching rather than a minus, even though it still sure sucked to lose. Great post. Unless you’re a McDermott hater 1 1 1 Quote
Watkins101 Posted June 8 Posted June 8 On 6/4/2024 at 7:24 PM, Buffalo716 said: People said the same thing about Andy Reid in Philadelphia LOL and he's not a different coach Sometimes it takes years and years to build the team... Andy Reid has had 11 years building his team in Kansas City.. Sean McDermott has had 7 years Andy Reid went to a franchise that was actually good in the 5 or 10 years prior at points.. McDermott took over a team that won 17 years with no postseason Worst drought in sports Patrick mahomes worst record against any franchise is the Buffalo Bills We certainly can beat them anytime any day it just hasn't felt that way.. like wide right or 13 seconds We're not far away from beating them and we absolutely can win super bowls By the end of his 7th year, Reid had already won a Super Bowl, and the year before was 1 play away from beating the Pats to make the Super Bowl. By comparison, McDermott has made 1 conference championship, in which the team was down 38-15 in the fourth quarter. Through his first 7 years, Reid had 2 seasons of elite QB play, while McDermott has had 4. Quote
fergie's ire Posted June 8 Posted June 8 Reid may not have had Allen or Mahomes, and Alex Smith is not a hall of famer. Still, go back and actually look at some of those earlier Reid playoff games. There was some absolute coaching malpractice. Down two scores to the Patriots and they go on a long time consuming drive and look like they are trying to run out the clock, and blowing an 18 point lead against the Titans. Reid had a reputation as a terrible playoff coach and we would be losing our minds if McDermott made some of the decisions that he did earlier in his career. 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted June 8 Posted June 8 1 hour ago, fergie's ire said: Reid may not have had Allen or Mahomes, and Alex Smith is not a hall of famer. Still, go back and actually look at some of those earlier Reid playoff games. There was some absolute coaching malpractice. Down two scores to the Patriots and they go on a long time consuming drive and look like they are trying to run out the clock, and blowing an 18 point lead against the Titans. Reid had a reputation as a terrible playoff coach and we would be losing our minds if McDermott made some of the decisions that he did earlier in his career. Instead here we are, perfectly content having suffered zero terrible playoff coaching decisions! Quote
Mikie2times Posted June 8 Posted June 8 5 hours ago, NewEra said: I can’t answer for him, but we slowed them down in december. Forced 4 punts and 2 turnovers. So maybe they why We never did in the playoffs. I do think it's important that we make some distinction between the two. Quote
NewEra Posted June 8 Posted June 8 13 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: We never did in the playoffs. I do think it's important that we make some distinction between the two. That’s fair- I also think it’s also important to make the distinction between healthy and not healthy. Quote
Mikie2times Posted June 8 Posted June 8 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: That’s fair- I also think it’s also important to make the distinction between healthy and not healthy. We have not faired well against Burrow or Mahomes in the postseason defensively. So while I recognize injuries play a role in some of these outcomes it appears to me like we underperform against divisional round competition or higher. Not just underperform based on it being a more difficult team but we play worse than what an average team would produce in such situations and we are much better than an average team in the regular season. Quote
NewEra Posted June 8 Posted June 8 7 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: We have not faired well against Burrow or Mahomes in the postseason defensively. So while I recognize injuries play a role in some of these outcomes it appears to me like we underperform against divisional round competition or higher. Not just underperform based on it being a more difficult team but we play worse than what an average team would produce in such situations and we are much better than an average team in the regular season. Yeah we do——- partly because we’ve been missing our best players. How many teams are winning super bowls after missing several of their best players? Who were the chiefs missing last season? How about the year before or their 19 team? Then compare those injured players to the Bills injured players. Last years team was especially beaten up after the Steelers playoff game Quote
Buffalo716 Posted June 8 Posted June 8 5 hours ago, Watkins101 said: By the end of his 7th year, Reid had already won a Super Bowl, and the year before was 1 play away from beating the Pats to make the Super Bowl. By comparison, McDermott has made 1 conference championship, in which the team was down 38-15 in the fourth quarter. Through his first 7 years, Reid had 2 seasons of elite QB play, while McDermott has had 4. Reid also got to build his team into a contender under Alex Smith where they were consistently winning... And the reigns to mahomes with a team ready to win The bills gutted the roster Josh Allen's rookie year and was good by year three.. but there were plenty of people who were not even sold on Josh Allen going into year three The bills as a team grew with Josh Allen... Patrick mahomes got a team that was ready to contend... Sure we could have beat them the last few years and haven't but I believe we can and we are very close 2 Quote
Mikie2times Posted June 8 Posted June 8 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: Yeah we do——- partly because we’ve been missing our best players. How many teams are winning super bowls after missing several of their best players? Who were the chiefs missing last season? How about the year before or their 19 team? Then compare those injured players to the Bills injured players. Last years team was especially beaten up after the Steelers playoff game Pretty sure the Bengals steamrolled us with one or two starting offensive lineman left. Even if you're willing to chalk it all up to injuries at some point you have to consider if its systemic. 1 Quote
NewEra Posted June 8 Posted June 8 57 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: Pretty sure the Bengals steamrolled us with one or two starting offensive lineman left. Even if you're willing to chalk it all up to injuries at some point you have to consider if it’s systemic. Yeah…..their second team OL steamrolled our 2nd team DL. what’s systemic? Not winning a Super Bowl? Same goes for every team in the nfl not named KC and the rams atm. 1 Quote
Lfod Posted June 9 Posted June 9 16 hours ago, folz said: I'm a little late to this party, so I'm just going to throw in a couple of random thoughts/arguments I had reading the thread. First of all, for all of those posters sick of people using Reid as some sort of comparison, it is just as annoying for posters to keep saying we should have multiple Super Bowls or be in the Super Bowl every other year at least just because we have Josh Allen. And since we haven't been, it means McDermott sucks or can/will never get over the hump. HOF Dan Marino, HOF Jim Kelly, HOF Fran Tarkenton, HOF Warren Moon, HOF Dan Fouts, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Steve McNair, Matt Ryan = 0 Super Bowls (future HOF) Aaron Rodgers, (future HOF) Drew Brees, HOF Brett Favre = 1 Super Bowl each (You could actually kind of add HOF Peyton Manning to this list as he was dragged along to his 2nd Super Bowl) So, let's just look at the current or soon-to-be HOFers on those lists. That is 9 Hall of Fame quarterbacks (four of which, at least, you could argue as Top Five All-Time QBs). Combined, they played 154 seasons of NFL football and yet have just 4 Super Bowl rings between them. That's 150 seasons with no rings for these HOF QBs. Just having a great QB does not guarantee Super Bowls. Now you could counter by saying, yeah, well if they didn't have good coaches, it's the same thing as the Bills situation. But in case you forgot, here is a the list of their head coaches: HOF Don Shula, HOF Marv Levy, HOF Bud Grant, HOF Don Coryell, HOF Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren, Sean Payton Winning a Super Bowl is not as easy as some of you guys think. Just because you have an elite QB, does not guarantee Super Bowls, even with a HOF coach. There are so many factors to a football team and how their season plays out, plus lady luck (in regards to injuries, lucky bounces of the ball, etc.). There is context to every situation. And second, as far as getting over the KC hump, yes, we lost to them three times, but I don't see beating them in the playoffs as some insurmountable task. This is the way I kind of look at the three playoff games vs. the Chiefs: 2020: Bills first real taste/test in playoffs, KC was just the better and more seasoned team (both players and coaches); Beasley on a broken foot, and a bad knee; Diggs with an oblique injury; and the refs allowed the KC DBs to hold and manhandle our receivers all game long (just rewatch how unbalanced it was officiating-wise, now some of that too could just be a little lack of playoff experience and knowing that the refs let more go in the playoffs---but it was pretty bad on the refs part, imo). Not saying we would have won otherwise, just another factor. But, the Bills just weren't ready yet for a playoff-seasoned KC team as an up-and-coming team. 2021: The infamous 13 seconds. One of the greatest playoff games ever played. Let's face it, whoever had the ball last was going to win that game...both defenses were gassed and had been gashed all game. Those two offenses that year were just perfection. Yes, you can blame coaching all you want, but it's on the players too. And what if we won the coin toss? What if he missed the 48-yard FG? Etc. Plus, you can question coaching decisions for every single team that lost a playoff game in the history of the NFL. Sometimes things just happen. How many playoff miracles are there, where the losing coach gets blamed? Lots. And how many NFL coaches post-1960 are perfect in the playoffs (have no losses that can be questioned)---Zero. Reid was blamed in Philly for bad game mangement and every one of his losses was questioned. Time to get over 13 seconds, it happened, and it's in the past. But this game was obviously a complete toss-up as far as the argument of us "getting over the KC hump" goes. 2024: Bills injuries: No Matt Milano, No Jordan Phillips, No Tre White, Taylor Rapp (out), Christian Benford (out), Terrell Bernard (out), Baylon Spector (out), Poona Ford (out), T. Johnson (playing after concussion the week before), Rasul Douglas playing through a knee injury, Gabe Davis (out), Sam Martin punting with a bum hamstring, it was only Micah Hyde's 2nd game back after being out all season, it was Daquan's 4th game back after being out 10 weeks, and whatever the heck was going on with Stefon (whether it was injury or he just quit on the team---21 yards and no TDs on 8 targets with a fumble). And we only lost by 3? That seems more like a plus for coaching rather than a minus, even though it still sure sucked to lose. This post is great. Its something I wanted to say but just couldnt put it all together like this. The Bills have been in the mix and I feel that is worthy enough to have faith that it had pontential to happen. Not sure about next year. Hopefully it all clicks out the gate but I am a little worried about that. Ill worry about KC if things seem to be in order after a few games. 1 1 Quote
Mikie2times Posted June 9 Posted June 9 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Yeah…..their second team OL steamrolled our 2nd team DL. what’s systemic? Not winning a Super Bowl? Same goes for every team in the nfl not named KC and the rams atm. It's not exactly bad luck if Terrell Bernard misses time when he has missed substantial time in more seasons than he hasn't since college. Which version of our LB's since we started playing KC in the playoffs would have slowed Kelce down? Maybe I missed the time we did it before. Plenty more teams get past the divisional round. Something we only did with Lamar in a wind storm. KC was missing most of its offensive line when they lost to the Brady led Bucs. We got to face Miami's 3rd string QB in the Wild Card round. We have had Allen healthy the whole time. So I guess I don't really know the proper deduction we should use on the "unlucky meter". I don't remember the status of most playoff competing teams in the NFL over several years to blame that. I can barely remember if the stars played. All I know is this seems like new thing to me in pro football. Blame injuries for outcomes over a long period of time. Especially if your stars are mostly healthy. 1 Quote
NewEra Posted June 9 Posted June 9 32 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: It's not exactly bad luck if Terrell Bernard misses time when he has missed substantial time in more seasons than he hasn't since college. Which version of our LB's since we started playing KC in the playoffs would have slowed Kelce down? Maybe I missed the time we did it before. Plenty more teams get past the divisional round. Something we only did with Lamar in a wind storm. KC was missing most of its offensive line when they lost to the Brady led Bucs. We got to face Miami's 3rd string QB in the Wild Card round. We have had Allen healthy the whole time. So I guess I don't really know the proper deduction we should use on the "unlucky meter". I don't remember the status of most playoff competing teams in the NFL over several years to blame that. I can barely remember if the stars played. All I know is this seems like new thing to me in pro football. Blame injuries for outcomes over a long period of time. Especially if your stars are mostly healthy. Idk what to say man, if you don’t think missing several starters means anything- we disagree Maybe you missed the times where we beat KC in KC in the regular seasons while playing with more key players on defense….and then missing them in the playoffs. Maybe having more good players on the field doesn’t have anything to do with winning and losing….,but I believe it does. Our defense played much better in the regular season than in the playoffs and part of that is because he had better players on the field. its not 💯 Reid owns McD in the playoffs and that’s the bottom line- there’s more to it than that and having more starters on the field has something to do with it. 1 1 Quote
gonzo1105 Posted June 9 Posted June 9 It’s not that hard, make more plays in the clutch. Offense, Defense, and STs. That has been the difference 1 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted June 9 Posted June 9 11 minutes ago, NewEra said: Idk what to say man, if you don’t think missing several starters means anything- we disagree Maybe you missed the times where we beat KC in KC in the regular seasons while playing with more key players on defense….and then missing them in the playoffs. Maybe having more good players on the field doesn’t have anything to do with winning and losing….,but I believe it does. Our defense played much better in the regular season than in the playoffs and part of that is because he had better players on the field. its not 💯 Reid owns McD in the playoffs and that’s the bottom line- there’s more to it than that and having more starters on the field has something to do with it. Preach 🙏 1 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted June 9 Posted June 9 11 hours ago, NewEra said: Idk what to say man, if you don’t think missing several starters means anything- we disagree Maybe you missed the times where we beat KC in KC in the regular seasons while playing with more key players on defense….and then missing them in the playoffs. Maybe having more good players on the field doesn’t have anything to do with winning and losing….,but I believe it does. Our defense played much better in the regular season than in the playoffs and part of that is because he had better players on the field. its not 💯 Reid owns McD in the playoffs and that’s the bottom line- there’s more to it than that and having more starters on the field has something to do with it. There's definitely some truth with what you're saying about injuries affecting the result. However I do think there's more to it as well. 2021 against the chiefs in the regular season- Milano and Harrison Phillips were hurt And Bills defence played amazing and won on that Sunday night game . Then in the playoffs that year ? Ok Tre White didn't play which was a big loss, but Milano and Phillips played that game. And we know what happened. 42 points or whatever it was to the chiefs. So ya injuries were def a factor this year. But I don't think it's as simple as "we played well cause we were healthy in the reg season and didn't play well cause we were healthy in the playoffs". As the 2021 season didn't fit that narrative^ 1 1 Quote
NewEra Posted June 9 Posted June 9 22 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: There's definitely some truth with what you're saying about injuries affecting the result. However I do think there's more to it as well. 2021 against the chiefs in the regular season- Milano and Harrison Phillips were hurt And Bills defence played amazing and won on that Sunday night game . Then in the playoffs that year ? Ok Tre White didn't play which was a big loss, but Milano and Phillips played that game. And we know what happened. 42 points or whatever it was to the chiefs. So ya injuries were def a factor this year. But I don't think it's as simple as "we played well cause we were healthy in the reg season and didn't play well cause we were healthy in the playoffs". As the 2021 season didn't fit that narrative^ Yes——-there is more to it. I’ve never said injuries are the only reason…..but without them (and added injuries to KC) and I think we would’ve beaten them this past season. Coaching, execution and injuries. If you take out all the poorly executed plays and replace them with executed plays, I think we win that game. Same goes for coaching. Same goes for injuries. All 3 combined and we couldn’t overcome a great team that was fairly healthy Quote
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