Joe Marino talks what the Bills have to do to beat KC in playoffs

[Doc Brown]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It wasn’t a miss. 
 

It was a TD if Dawkins doesn’t get ragdolled by Jones. 
 

But I guess Allen now has to account for his LT not being able to hold a block, along with his WR’s dropping passes and Defense that physically crumbles (literally and metaphorically) when having to play KC in the postseason. 

The checkdown to a wide open Diggs was there for a probable first down.  At worst a 3rd and short where I like our chances the way our running game was going with both Josh and our RB's. Chiefs have to start burning timeouts.  We can run the clock down where it's a TD for the win or a chip shot for OT.  Mahomes doesn't get the ball back.  Even if Dawkins held his block, Allen was 1 for 13 (or something close to that) in passes 25 yards plus in the middle of the field last season.  Horrible situational awareness by both Brady on the play call and Allen on the decision.  I know I'm in the minority on this fwiw.

[Nephilim17]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Does he talk about what @NoHuddleKelly12 quipped were "The LIttle Sisters of the Poor" playing LB against the Chiefs in the playoffs?

 

Beane is clearly aware of the need for pressure.  That's why he drafted as he did in 2021, and then signed Von Miller in 2022.  That was a "swing for the fences" that missed, when Miller was injured on Thanksgiving and then really couldn't play at an elite level in 2023.

 

But a team also needs to get "hot" at the right time, as far as players turning it up (like Rashee Rice did for the Chiefs 2nd half) vs. disappearing (as Diggs seems to do come playoff time, and as Leonard Floyd did).  And as far as players not being injured.  Starting AJ Klein and an injured Tyrell Dodson at LB and an injured Rasul Douglas and Dane Jackson at CB is not a recipe for success.

 

I can't remember if Joe mentioned injuries as a factor, but is so, if was just in passing.

His main point was that other teams in the playoffs average more than 2 sacks per game against Mahomes but we have 3 sacks in 3 games, and have forced zero interceptions or interception-worthy balls or something. So we don't get to him and we don't make him make bad throws. But that needs to be at least slightly corrected.

Joe is not an idiot and said no one can shut down or stop Mahomes but you have to slow him down a bit and the Bills, for whatever reason, don't do that in the playoffs. With Josh playing lights out, the D has to be better. And Mahomes has a significantly higher QB rating against the Bills in the playoffs than other teams — so there's something wrong that the Bills and our vaunted D (my words here) are doing.

Joe does NOT say don't build a good offense and I don't think he loved the Coleman pick but he pointed out that good play on D starts wtih the D line and the Bills D line has been worse against Pat in the playoffs.

He seemed to hope the Babich would scheme up something that would work better. And he seemed to imply the scheme is a big part of it (not just players). 

Take it as you will. As expected, some folks get upset and misinterpret this as saying the Bills don't need a good offense. They do — but they need to put more pressure on Mahomes in the playoffs and force more bad throws and longer distances to get the first down.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 6/4/2024 at 7:24 PM, Buffalo716 said:

People said the same thing about Andy Reid in Philadelphia LOL and he's not a different coach 

 

Sometimes it takes years and years to build the team... Andy Reid has had 11 years building his team in Kansas City.. Sean McDermott has had 7 years 

 

Andy Reid went to a franchise that was actually good in the 5 or 10 years prior at points.. McDermott took over a team that won 17 years with no postseason 

 

Worst drought in sports

 

Patrick mahomes worst record against any franchise is the Buffalo Bills 

 

We certainly can beat them anytime any day it just hasn't felt that way.. like wide right or 13 seconds 

 

We're not far away from beating them and we absolutely can win super bowls

 

How many SB wins does reid have in those 11 years

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The checkdown to a wide open Diggs was there for a probable first down.  At worst a 3rd and short where I like our chances the way our running game was going with both Josh and our RB's. Chiefs have to start burning timeouts.  We can run the clock down where it's a TD for the win or a chip shot for OT.  Mahomes doesn't get the ball back.  Even if Dawkins held his block, Allen was 1 for 13 (or something close to that) in passes 25 yards plus in the middle of the field last season.  Horrible situational awareness by both Brady on the play call and Allen on the decision.  I know I'm in the minority on this fwiw.

 

If the checkdown is there for a first down, whats wrong with the playcall?  Allen also threw a very similar TD to kincaid the week prior.  So its not as if that route combination doesn't work.

 

I personally think we win if we get the TD.  They have 2 timeouts but need a TD, and their running attack that had been really effective is likely not going to be in play in a 2 minute drill.  

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

If the checkdown is there for a first down, whats wrong with the playcall?  Allen also threw a very similar TD to kincaid the week prior.  So its not as if that route combination doesn't work.

 

I personally think we win if we get the TD.  They have 2 timeouts but need a TD, and their running attack that had been really effective is likely not going to be in play in a 2 minute drill.  

 

Wasn't there like 1:40 left on the clock. Too much time for Mahomes and our injury depleted D hadn't stopped them all day. Even if the Bills did score a TD, I would have guessed the Chiefs would have had an excellent chance to win the game.

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The checkdown to a wide open Diggs was there for a probable first down.  At worst a 3rd and short where I like our chances the way our running game was going with both Josh and our RB's. Chiefs have to start burning timeouts.  We can run the clock down where it's a TD for the win or a chip shot for OT.  Mahomes doesn't get the ball back.  Even if Dawkins held his block, Allen was 1 for 13 (or something close to that) in passes 25 yards plus in the middle of the field last season.  Horrible situational awareness by both Brady on the play call and Allen on the decision.  I know I'm in the minority on this fwiw.

What was maddening is that Allen played like 3 Q’s dinking and dunking, had the two deep shots to Diggs and Sherfield that they both whiffed on, and then went for that.

 

The Bills stayed in that game by Allen taking the short stuff and he just…stopped. 
 

I know he plays a lot of Madden and he also lived 13 seconds. If you are gonna win a football game against an offense you can’t stop, you have to score with almost no time left. Period.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

24 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Wasn't there like 1:40 left on the clock. Too much time for Mahomes and our injury depleted D hadn't stopped them all day. Even if the Bills did score a TD, I would have guessed the Chiefs would have had an excellent chance to win the game.

 

They stopped them the previous 2 drives.  And Klein likely doesn't play the entire drive, Play action isn't really in play, you can maybe run twice on the drive.  

 

I think its a better chance to win there than overtime.  

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

Wasn't there like 1:40 left on the clock. Too much time for Mahomes and our injury depleted D hadn't stopped them all day. Even if the Bills did score a TD, I would have guessed the Chiefs would have had an excellent chance to win the game.

All these things are true.

 

Allen, in a perfect world, takes the check down, we grind the clock out, and score with as little time left as possible.

 

It’s also insane that all the machinations need to go through his head because we can’t score to quickly or we lose.. just like what happened to him the last time he saw Mahomes in the playoffs.

 

Reality is.. I’d say it’s a 25% chance we win if Dawkins doesn’t get blown up and Allen hits Shakir for the TD.   
 

Plenty of time, but the crowd would be insane and they need a TD.  I don’t think our defense would hold them without a big play, but a negative play or turnover are what I’d bank on as the 25% chance they hold. 

[Gregg]

Just now, SCBills said:

All these things are true.

 

Allen, in a perfect world, takes the check down, we grind the clock out, and score with as little time left as possible.

 

It’s also insane that all the machinations need to go through his head because we can’t score to quickly or we lose.. just like what happened to him the last time he saw Mahomes in the playoffs.

 

Reality is.. I’d say it’s a 25% chance we win if Dawkins doesn’t get blown up and Allen hits Shakir for the TD.   
 

Plenty of time, but the crowd would be insane and they need a TD.  I don’t think our defense would hold them without a big play, but a negative play or turnover are what I’d bank on as the 25% chance they hold. 

 

At the time I was screaming to take the check down to Diggs. He probably could have picked up the first down or gotten very close. Also, the Chiefs would have had to start using timeouts at that point. If the Bills don't score a TD, then they at least have a more manageable FG with very little time on the clock for the Chiefs to do anything especially with no timeouts. Then they take their chances in OT and see what happens.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

What was maddening is that Allen played like 3 Q’s dinking and dunking, had the two deep shots to Diggs and Sherfield that they both whiffed on, and then went for that.

 

The Bills stayed in that game by Allen taking the short stuff and he just…stopped. 
 

I know he plays a lot of Madden and he also lived 13 seconds. If you are gonna win a football game against an offense you can’t stop, you have to score with almost no time left. Period.

in the real world 8 and a half minute TD drives to ice games dont exist. Turning down the go ahead TD in favor of draining the clock is not a real thing.

 

You go for the TD there and play defense. No QB is turning down that shot to Shakir.

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

in the real world 8 and a half minute TD drives to ice games dont exist. Turning down the go ahead TD in favor of draining the clock is not a real thing.

 

You go for the TD there and play defense. No QB is turning down that shot to Shakir.

That’s fair. I think they ended up in no man’s land from a clock perspective, at least to start that drive.

However, at the time of that fateful 

set of downs, we had the ball at the KC 27 with 2:46. I would argue that it is VERY possible to drain a larger amount of clock/TO’s there and still score. Hell, we didn’t take the field with Bass until a minute passed, WITH the 2 minute warning. 

 

I take my chances them draining clock and KC timeouts and hoping for the best up 4. 
 

The bottom line is we all agree a FG to tie or even an early TD is a loss there. Besides bringing in Aaron Donald to play for us for one drive, the ONLY way to win that game was to give the ball to KC with a minute and change and no TO’s and hope for a tipped ball pick or something.

[GoBills808]

Just now, FireChans said:

That’s fair. I think they ended up in no man’s land from a clock perspective, at least to start that drive.

However, at the time of that fateful 

set of downs, we had the ball at the KC 27 with 2:46. I would argue that it is VERY possible to drain a larger amount of clock/TO’s there and still score. Hell, we didn’t take the field with Bass until a minute passed, WITH the 2 minute warning. 

 

I take my chances them draining clock and KC timeouts and hoping for the best up 4. 
 

The bottom line is we all agree a FG to tie or even an early TD is a loss there. Besides bringing in Aaron Donald to play for us for one drive, the ONLY way to win that game was to give the ball to KC with a minute and change and no TO’s and hope for a tipped ball pick or something.

they 100% ended up in no mans land re clock. you don't start a clock draining/game winning TD drive w a 75yard bomb lol. it was another example of late game management getting away from them.

 

also i just think it's too big an ask. if we need the offense to literally play perfectly to win we just don't have any hope of a SB

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

What was maddening is that Allen played like 3 Q’s dinking and dunking, had the two deep shots to Diggs and Sherfield that they both whiffed on, and then went for that.

 

The Bills stayed in that game by Allen taking the short stuff and he just…stopped. 
 

I know he plays a lot of Madden and he also lived 13 seconds. If you are gonna win a football game against an offense you can’t stop, you have to score with almost no time left. Period.

That is the narrative with him among media types. He’s not patient enough for a grind it out game plan. Defenses often sit back and wait for the inevitable mistake. Unfortunately he fed into that narrative with how that game ended. Let’s hope he learns from that. 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

they 100% ended up in no mans land re clock. you don't start a clock draining/game winning TD drive w a 75yard bomb lol. it was another example of late game management getting away from them.

 

also i just think it's too big an ask. if we need the offense to literally play perfectly to win we just don't have any hope of a SB

meh, the Chiefs played the tough Jets defense (who I think we can all agree are better than the Bills defense in that playoff game) and ran out a 7:24 clock starting from the Jets 47.

 

They even got the ball at the Jets 24 with 2:50 left and ended the game with the Jets having 3 TO’s.

 

I don’t think it’s that big of an ask.

 

I do agree that relying on the offense to be perfect is silly, we should just surround Josh with so much offensive weaponry that a very good performance is like a 38-40 point outing.

 

The bottom line is scoring a TD early is a loss. Kicking a FG is a loss. That makes them the wrong play. Period.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

meh, the Chiefs played the tough Jets defense (who I think we can all agree are better than the Bills defense in that playoff game) and ran out a 7:24 clock starting from the Jets 47.

 

They even got the ball at the Jets 24 with 2:50 left and ended the game with the Jets having 3 TO’s.

 

I don’t think it’s that big of an ask.

 

I do agree that relying on the offense to be perfect is silly, we should just surround Josh with so much offensive weaponry that a very good performance is like a 38-40 point outing.

 

The bottom line is scoring a TD early is a loss. Kicking a FG is a loss. That makes them the wrong play. Period.

lol big big difference

 

they were tied when the chiefs got the ball back

 

also it was the regular season

[Don Otreply]

On 6/4/2024 at 7:58 PM, frostbitmic said:

Find a Defense in the final few minutes of the game other than the cover no one soft shell prevent Defense.

Sadly the soft zone /contain defense we play, pretty much no matter what is happening in postseason games is our bane, we don’t have a plan “B” that works, never have, our D - line rotation isn’t working in the regular or postseason, guys are spent or injured by the time the playoffs are underway, I wish I had the answer to this problem, but I’m just a Buffalo fan that has had his fair share of frustration lol, but I always hope for the best, 😁👍🍸🚬

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

meh, the Chiefs played the tough Jets defense (who I think we can all agree are better than the Bills defense in that playoff game) and ran out a 7:24 clock starting from the Jets 47.

 

They even got the ball at the Jets 24 with 2:50 left and ended the game with the Jets having 3 TO’s.

 

I don’t think it’s that big of an ask.

 

I do agree that relying on the offense to be perfect is silly, we should just surround Josh with so much offensive weaponry that a very good performance is like a 38-40 point outing.

 

The bottom line is scoring a TD early is a loss. Kicking a FG is a loss. That makes them the wrong play. Period.

 

The Chiefs had a 23-20 lead when they got the ball back with 7+ minutes left. They had the lead so the main priority is to drain the clock.

 

Don't forget that Mahomes threw a terrible INT on 3rd and 20 and got absolutely bailed out by the refs with a garbage DPI call. 

 

How often does a trailing team score a go-ahead TD with no time left on the clock after a 7+ minute drive? I'd be surprised if it happens more than once or twice in any given season

[FireChans]

36 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

The Chiefs had a 23-20 lead when they got the ball back with 7+ minutes left. They had the lead so the main priority is to drain the clock.

 

Don't forget that Mahomes threw a terrible INT on 3rd and 20 and got absolutely bailed out by the refs with a garbage DPI call. 

 

How often does a trailing team score a go-ahead TD with no time left on the clock after a 7+ minute drive? I'd be surprised if it happens more than once or twice in any given season

To be the best you gotta beat the best?

[Fan in San Diego]

We need Tonya Harding to hire her pipe swatting knee job to Mahomes and Kelse.

 

[Simon]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

That’s fair. I think they ended up in no man’s land from a clock perspective, at least to start that drive.

 

I said the exact same thing right before that drive started.

But when they had whittled it down under 2:00 while still having plenty of room to operate there was an opportunity to finish it on that possession.

At the time I had zero problem with the shot, because it was there to be taken and it's a throw Allen has made more than once. But in hindsight they may have been smarter to keep bleeding it. Although I get the sense that the Chiefs were adjusting appropriately with the clock and those short zones were getting smaller.

At this point, it's just a good debate with no wrong side, imo.