Joe Marino talks what the Bills have to do to beat KC in playoffs

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well, none of that is what we have discussed once.  So that is all news to me.  

 

What "Elite" QB was in Andy Reids way in Philly?  I mean on one hand you can't stop talking about how ELITE Mahomes is...then on the other, you can't seem to understand that McD and Allen need to go through Mahomes to get over the hump.

 

You know it took Peyton Manning a long time to get a SB too because he had Brady to contend with every year as well.  Mahomes is a generational talent, getting past him is not going to be some small task or feat.  

 

We lost by 3 to KC this year in the postseason, but you do know we were without our top 3 LB's right.  KC attacked our LBs all game long and still only won by 3.  You don't think Milano and Bernard might have impacted that game to where we probably would have won and not having them was a bit of bad luck.  Its one thing to lose one guy, but to lose your starters and the backup is tough.

 

The most important difference is Reid went from GM in Philly to NOT the GM in KC.  He was always a good coach.

I'm not saying McDermott can't get it done. But he hasn't yet with an elite quarterback.

 

So you really believe the biggest difference in Andy Reid's career is that?

 

Reid was the coach in KC for what 7 seasons before he won a championship?

So your main reason that Andy got over the hump is it took about 20 years for the lightbulb to go on for him and the reason why he's successful now is because he's not the GM in KC,  and not the main reason being Mahomes. 
 

Do you truly believe that?

 

Edited June 5 by BillsFan130

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I'm not saying McDermott can't get it done. But he hasn't yet with an elite quarterback.

 

So you really believe the biggest difference in Andy Reid's career is that?

 

Reid was the coach in KC for what 7 seasons before he won a championship?

So your main reason that Andy got over the hump is it took about 20 years for the lightbulb to go on for him and the reason why he's successful now is because he's not the GM in KC,  and not the main reason being Mahomes. 
 

Do you truly believe that?

 

 

And who drafted Mahomes?  His GM, Brett Veach.  Veach is one of the best GM's in the NFL, some will say the best GM, who has been there 17 years.  He drafted Hill, Kelce, Mahomes, and the entire roster that is currently back to back SB champs.  He was there before Reid, and he was the one who hired Reid.

 

No HC can get over the hump without the right GM putting the right team on the field.  In Philly, both hats were on Reid...didn't work.  In KC, Reid coaches, Veach builds the team.  

 

Reid was always a good HC...he stood in his own way in Philly as GM.

Edited June 5 by Alphadawg7

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

And who drafted Mahomes?  His GM, Brett Veach.  Veach is one of the best GM's in the NFL, some will say the best GM, who has been there 17 years.  He drafted Hill, Kelce, Mahomes, and the entire roster that is currently back to back SB champs.  He was there before Reid, and he was the one who hired Reid.

 

No HC can get over the hump without the right GM putting the right team on the field.  In Philly, both hats were on Reid...didn't work.  In KC, Reid coaches, Veach builds the team.  

 

Reid was always a good HC...he stood in his own way in Philly as GM.

All fair points and I don't dispute that . But will you admit that the biggest thing missing for Andy Reid was having an elite QB?

 

Where McDermott has had an elite QB for the last 4 years.

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

All fair points and I don't dispute that . But will you admit that the biggest thing missing for Andy Reid was having an elite QB?

 

Where McDermott has had an elite QB for the last 4 years.

 

 

Ha...no, I can't admit that because McNabb was a top 10 QB in Philly, he was a borderline HOF QB.  He was not the reason they didn't get over the hump.  McNabb never had a Kelce or Hill.  He briefly had a T.O. who was a locker room cancer and killed that team from within.  Outisde of that brief moment, he had guys that were better suited as depth WR's starting for him.  And yet McNabb still won a lot of game, still put up a borderline HOF career, and still got to 5 straight NFCCG and 1 SB.

 

The biggest thing missing in Philly was a real GM.  Reid was a good coach...McNabb was a good QB...the roster make up around them was not good enough.  

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ha...no, I can't admit that because McNabb was a top 10 QB in Philly, he was a borderline HOF QB.  He was not the reason they didn't get over the hump.  McNabb never had a Kelce or Hill.  He briefly had a T.O. who was a locker room cancer and killed that team from within.  Outisde of that brief moment, he had guys that were better suited as depth WR's starting for him.  And yet McNabb still won a lot of game, still put up a borderline HOF career, and still got to 5 straight NFCCG and 1 SB.

 

The biggest thing missing in Philly was a real GM.  Reid was a good coach...McNabb was a good QB...the roster make up around them was not good enough.  

So we are comparing a top 10 QB in his era to one of the best QBs of all time🤦‍♂️

 

We will agree to disagree like you said last night sir, all good.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

So we are comparing a top 10 QB in his era to one of the best QBs of all time🤦‍♂️

 

We will agree to disagree like you said last night sir, all good.

 

Huh?  We are comparing Reid in KC to Reids time in Philly.  

 

You can't take one of the greatest QBs of all time...put him on another roster where they also had a good QB...and say see that is proof the QB was the problem.  

 

I mean you can do that with any QB in NFL history who didn't win a SB...Swap Mahomes in for Jim Kelly...bet you Bills win a SB...does that mean Jim Kelly was the problem?  Of course not.  Swap Marino out for Mahomes and Mia might have won a SB too...does that mean Marino was the problem?  Of course not.

I mean this is just a wild argument you are trying to make.  

Edited June 5 by Alphadawg7

[BillsFan130]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Huh?  We are comparing Reid in KC to Reids time in Philly.  

 

You can't take one of the greatest QBs of all time...put him on another roster where they also had a good QB...and say see that is proof the QB was the problem.  

 

I mean you can do that with any QB in NFL history who didn't win a SB...Swap Mahomes in for Jim Kelly...bet you Bills win a SB...does that mean Jim Kelly was the problem?  Of course not.  Swap Marino out for Mahomes and Mia might have won a SB too...does that mean Marino was the problem?  Of course not.

I mean this is just a silly argument you are trying to make.  

So now Mcnabb is in the same breath as Jim Kelly and Marino? .

 

i honestly don't get how you don't think Mahomes is the biggest difference in Andy Reid's career lol

 

The lightbulb didn't all of a sudden go "on" for Andy Reid after 20 years.

 

The lightbulb went "on" because he has a superstar QB. I really dont  get how you even dispute that.

 

Take Mahomes off the chiefs and replace him with let's say Dak Prescott or whoever you think is a QB in the 8-10 range and he would have 0 rings still.

 

KC won what, 0 or maybe 1 playoff game without Mahomes in the Reid era? And that's with Hill, Kelce etc 

Edited June 5 by BillsFan130

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

It's not Mahomes' fault that he has had an easier time in those matchups and he's certainly made the most of those opportunities but I give Allen the edge in those matchups because he has gotten his team so close to winning despite objectively much more unfavorable circumstances.

I guess but that high difficulty miss to Shakir passing up a wide open Diggs is hard to forget as much as I love Allen.

[NoSaint]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

So now Mcnabb is in the same breath as Jim Kelly and Marino? .

 

i honestly don't get how you don't think Mahomes is the biggest difference in Andy Reid's career lol

 

The lightbulb didn't all of a sudden go "on" for Andy Reid after 20 years.

 

The lightbulb went "on" because he has a superstar QB. I really dont  get how you even dispute that.

 

Take Mahomes off the chiefs and replace him with let's say Dak Prescott or whoever you think is a QB in the 8-10 range and he would have 0 rings still.

 

KC won what, 0 or maybe 1 playoff game without Mahomes in the Reid era? And that's with Hill, Kelce etc 

 

put another way, let’s say you need 180 points out of the two guys to get a ring pretty darn reliably over a couple year stretch. under that threshold you could luck info one if the chips fall just right in a season 

 

Reid 90/100

Belichick 90/100

McDermott 85/100

Brady 95/100

mahomes 90/100

josh 90/100

mcnabb 85/100

big Ben 85/100

eli 80/100

dak 80/100

 

you could stretch it out to add a metric for the remaining roster and touch up numbers a bit but I think a lot of us feel like the above as a bar napkin summary of the challenge. Josh qualifies while McDermott is close but not quite. Together they will compete but we may need to go find our “mahomes” or “Allen” at head coach to upgrade from our very good “mcnabb” At head coach currently 

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

put another way, let’s say you need 180 points out of the two guys to get a ring pretty darn reliably over a couple year stretch. under that threshold you could luck info one if the chips fall just right in a season 

 

Reid 90/100

Belichick 90/100

McDermott 85/100

Brady 95/100

mahomes 90/100

josh 90/100

mcnabb 85/100

big Ben 85/100

eli 80/100

dak 80/100

 

you could stretch it out to add a metric for the remaining roster and touch up numbers a bit but I think a lot of us feel like the above as a bar napkin summary of the challenge. Josh qualifies while McDermott is close but not quite. Together they will compete but we may need to go find our “mahomes” or “Allen” at head coach to upgrade from our very good “mcnabb” At head coach currently 

Very good post and well put

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

So now Mcnabb is in the same breath as Jim Kelly and Marino? .

 

i honestly don't get how you don't think Mahomes is the biggest difference in Andy Reid's career lol

 

The lightbulb didn't all of a sudden go "on" for Andy Reid after 20 years.

 

The lightbulb went "on" because he has a superstar QB. I really dont  get how you even dispute that.

 

Take Mahomes off the chiefs and replace him with let's say Dak Prescott or whoever you think is a QB in the 8-10 range and he would have 0 rings still.

 

KC won what, 0 or maybe 1 playoff game without Mahomes in the Reid era? And that's with Hill, Kelce etc 

 

Dude you just get more and more all over the place.  You said if you swap in Mahomes and the team wins a SB it means the QB was the LONE problem.  So if you are going to do that for Philly, it has to mean the same thing if you do it for another team like Kelly and the Bills.  But it doesn't becasue its an absolute ludicrous statement to say the QB was the problem because said team did not have the best QB of maybe all time on its roster.  If you cant see how wild of a statement is, I dont know what to tell you.

 

And lightbulb?  You think Andy Reid suddenly had a "lightbulb" go off after 2 decades of being a coach when he got Mahomes?  Reid was a very good coach his whole career...he didn't learn how to coach all of a sudden when they got Mahomes where some "lightbulb" went off lol.  

 

Still completely lost on your point.  I cant tell if you think Reid is a good or bad coach.  You talk down to McD as if Reid is the superior coach then basically say its all mahomes and imply Reid is nothing without Mahomes.

 

So I am gonna move on...its all good...agree to disagree even though I have no clue what so ever what we are agreeing to disagree on

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

put another way, let’s say you need 180 points out of the two guys to get a ring pretty darn reliably over a couple year stretch. under that threshold you could luck info one if the chips fall just right in a season 

 

Reid 90/100

Belichick 90/100

McDermott 85/100

Brady 95/100

mahomes 90/100

josh 90/100

mcnabb 85/100

big Ben 85/100

eli 80/100

dak 80/100

 

you could stretch it out to add a metric for the remaining roster and touch up numbers a bit but I think a lot of us feel like the above as a bar napkin summary of the challenge. Josh qualifies while McDermott is close but not quite. Together they will compete but we may need to go find our “mahomes” or “Allen” at head coach to upgrade from our very good “mcnabb” At head coach currently 

 

If it was only the HC and QB this would make sense.  Mahomes doesn't get a Super Ring last year without Chris Jones who made game saving plays in more than one playoff game, including against us and in the Super Bowl.  

 

How did KC beat us in the 13 seconds game?  Well it started with Hill taking a short pass any QB could throw the length of the field.  In the 13 seconds it was Kelce who called his own play in the huddle from what he saw on the field. 

 

QBs, even ones as good as Mahomes, are not doing it alone out there...just like Allen not having a SB ring isn't all on Allen when his team can't hold a lead for 13 seconds.  

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I guess but that high difficulty miss to Shakir passing up a wide open Diggs is hard to forget as much as I love Allen.

this take can't die soon enough

 

 

first off this is not a miss, this is your left tackle being deposited into your lap

 

second...you want Allen to pass up an easy go ahead TD for a drag underneath to a guy who had not only just dropped the most important pass of your career minutes earlier but was also dogging his routes and moping the whole game😂😂

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dude you just get more and more all over the place.  You said if you swap in Mahomes and the team wins a SB it means the QB was the LONE problem.  So if you are going to do that for Philly, it has to mean the same thing if you do it for another team like Kelly and the Bills.  But it doesn't becasue its an absolute ludicrous statement to say the QB was the problem because said team did not have the best QB of maybe all time on its roster.  If you cant see how wild of a statement is, I dont know what to tell you.

 

And lightbulb?  You think Andy Reid suddenly had a "lightbulb" go off after 2 decades of being a coach when he got Mahomes?  Reid was a very good coach his whole career...he didn't learn how to coach all of a sudden when they got Mahomes where some "lightbulb" went off lol.  

 

Still completely lost on your point.  I cant tell if you think Reid is a good or bad coach.  You talk down to McD as if Reid is the superior coach then basically say its all mahomes and imply Reid is nothing without Mahomes.

 

So I am gonna move on...its all good...agree to disagree even though I have no clue what so ever what we are agreeing to disagree on

 

 

My overall point is Andy Reid has always been an elite coach. The thing missing for him was having an elite QB to put him over the edge.

 

And when he got an elite QB, he now has 3 rings

 

Tying this back to the bills: McDermott has had an elite QB for the past 4 years but hasn't even been to a Super Bowl.

 

So I don't understand the comparison when a few of you said "Maybe McDermott is like Andy Reid and just needs more time to figure it out".

 

Maybe he will. But it's not a comparison in my mind because what's changing for McDermott? He has an elite QB already.

 

If you disagree all good. But hopefully you at least see my point 

[Simon]

51 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I can't admit that because McNabb was a top 10 QB in Philly, he was a borderline HOF QB.

 

C'mon man, he was one of the most chickenspit, gutless choke artists I've ever seen when things got real.

That held true from college right through his NFL career.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

My overall point is Andy Reid has always been an elite coach. The thing missing for him was having an elite QB to put him over the edge.

 

And when he got an elite QB, he now has 3 rings

 

Tying this back to the bills: McDermott has had an elite QB for the past 4 years but hasn't even been to a Super Bowl.

 

So I don't understand the comparison when a few of you said "Maybe McDermott is like Andy Reid and just needs more time to figure it out".

 

Maybe he will. But it's not a comparison in my mind because what's changing for McDermott? He has an elite QB already.

 

If you disagree all good. But hopefully you at least see my point 

 

Curious...what Elite QB's in the greatest of all time conversations did Joe Gibbs need?  What about Parcells or Harbaugh?  

 

Yet here you are...saying Andy Reid is elite...but also saying only is because he has one of the greatest to play in Mahomes.  That sounds more like Reid is lucky to have Mahomes based on your own arguments.  

 

Like I said, Reid always a great coach...but you also said he only had a "lightbulb come on" when he got Mahomes, again implying he wasn't up to the task prior to Mahomes...so your points are all over the place man.

 

The funniest thing about this is that this isn't even about Reid...you finally revealed this was all one big hidden anti-McD rant despite you dragging us down an Andy Reid rabbit hole full of false facts and inaccurate history.

 

Next time...just say McD sucks and let the convo go there rather than go down this crazy rabbit hole of 2 entirely different teams.  

 

BONUS NOTE:  The irony here is that if you apply your same swap mahomes in theory to the Bills, it would translate to mean Josh Allen is the problem since you 100% attest in the other application it means that it is 100% the QB's fault when Mahomes is an upgrade.  Which would be just as ludicrous to say.  

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Curious...what Elite QB's in the greatest of all time conversations did Joe Gibbs need?  What about Parcells or Harbaugh?  

 

Yet here you are...saying Andy Reid is elite...but also saying only is because he has one of the greatest to play in Mahomes.  That sounds more like Reid is lucky to have Mahomes based on your own arguments.  

 

Like I said, Reid always a great coach...but you also said he only had a "lightbulb come on" when he got Mahomes, again implying he wasn't up to the task prior to Mahomes...so your points are all over the place man.

 

The funniest thing about this is that this isn't even about Reid...you finally revealed this was all one big hidden anti-McD rant despite you dragging us down an Andy Reid rabbit hole full of false facts and inaccurate history.

 

Next time...just say McD sucks and let the convo go there rather than go down this crazy rabbit hole of 2 entirely different teams.  

 

BONUS NOTE:  The irony here is that if you apply your same swap mahomes in theory to the Bills, it would translate to mean Josh Allen is the problem since you 100% attest in the other application it means that it is 100% the QB's fault when Mahomes is an upgrade.  Which would be just as ludicrous to say.  

Haha so you're going to compare the 80s-90s to now?😂 It's literally apples and oranges. It's a passing league now, completely different to 35 years ago. You know this.

 

This is not a McDermott rant. I was ONCE again responding to a comment saying it's different than andy Reid's situation. You were the one commenting on my post bud.

 

I don't even understand what you're trying to say in your bonus note. I've read it 3 times and have no idea what you're trying to prove there. 
 

In no world is Josh Allen a problem in the playoffs though. The defence is the one letting the bills down and yes, coaching. That's not a rant, it's a fact 

 

 

Edited June 6 by BillsFan130

[97bills]

On 6/4/2024 at 7:09 PM, NoSaint said:

it’ll be a real damn shame if you are posting this about Josh in 20 years 

 

That’s what scares the heck out of me… 

[90sBills]

7 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Want to worry about somebody?  I will always worry about Cincy more than the Chiefs.

 

Why?  We.  Haven't.  Beaten. Them. Yet.

 

Go Bills.

 

We haven’t beaten KC when it mattered either. And unlike Cincy, KC actually wins championships. So they’re the biggest roadblock. 

[SCBills]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I guess but that high difficulty miss to Shakir passing up a wide open Diggs is hard to forget as much as I love Allen.

It wasn’t a miss. 
 

It was a TD if Dawkins doesn’t get ragdolled by Jones. 
 

But I guess Allen now has to account for his LT not being able to hold a block, along with his WR’s dropping passes and Defense that physically crumbles (literally and metaphorically) when having to play KC in the postseason.