Joe Marino talks what the Bills have to do to beat KC in playoffs

[Cray51]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I remember that as a 50/50 game

 

And Allen had to stand on his head to make it happen 

Lot's of things need to go right to win games in the playoffs.  It's a combination of luck/preparation/execution.  Most plays are 50/50, and what decides who wins is a minor mistake or great play by a player or two.  What I'm saying is you can't just say "well the game was trending one way so we were lucky to be in that position, and should have lost 9 out of 10 times" without acknowledging that really you can say that on the other side with almost the same consistency.  Most games come down to a few plays that go right or wrong for a team.  50/50 games are almost every game until the 4th quarter

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Execute better.  Game plan better.  Stay healthier.  
 

Partially on coaching.  Partially on players.  Partially on injuries.  
 

We’re close.  Just have to be better when it counts.  Including 17.  He’s been great in one season ending loss (13 seconds).  He was pretty good last year.  Poor vs Cinci.  Below average vs KC in the AFCCG.  We need better from more than just coaching 

I’m not actually on the fire McD train. I think that the top level assets that have been acquired for defense haven’t really been top level since like 2017.

 

All those first and second round picks on defense and our best defensive players have been Milano, Hyde, Poyer, and White for the majority of this era. 
 

More importantly, I think last year was arguably his best coach job in NFL history. They could have easily been the Sirianni Eagles and collapsed down the stretch, especially with the media hatchet job.
 

I think McD and the Bills can beat anyone in the playoffs. I like their chances against almost anyone, except the Chiefs. I think there’s too much familiarity and mental edge there.

 

Just like when the drought era Bills played a limping Pats team several times throughout the years. That storybook is littered with games the Bills should’ve won, but didn’t. 
 

And in that specific instance, of facing that specific team in the postseason, I think there’s an argument that a coaching change is the way through.

 

This is gonna sound kinda crazy, but if the 2024 Bills are facing the 2024 Chiefs in the divisional round, and you asked if I could have Ben Johnson/BB or Brady/McD for that one game, it’s a landslide for the former. And that’s not supposed to really be a knock on McD.

[warrior9]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

The point is Sean McDermott went to a team that didn't go to the playoffs for 17 straight years 

 

It takes time to build a contender... You don't go from no playoffs in 17 years to the super bowl overnight...

 

The team realistically wasn't ready to contend in the playoffs until Josh Allen's third year... Sean McDermott was overachieving before then and already reached the playoffs twice 

 

We're just starting to get Sean McDermott's full vision.. you can't create a full NFL vision in 3 years... 

 

Andy Reid had a head start on a franchise that was not as big as a perennial loser... And then even bowed out 4 straight times in the wild card or divisional round with the Chiefs 

 

It took him time to get past the divisional with Kansas City... By the time he had mahomes he had a stacked roster with two Hall of famers on offense...

Andy Reid inherited a team that was 2-14 my man.... Chiefs record before Reid

5 years: 4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 10-6, 7-9, 2-14

 

Record for the Bills before McDermott got here: 

5 years 6-10 6-10 7-9 8-8 7-9 

 

Are you just grasping? 
So again to your original point, by season 11.. McDermott should have 3 super bowls since he's had time to build a team now. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Andy Reid inherited a team that was 2-14 my man.... Chiefs record before Reid

5 years: 4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 10-6, 7-9, 2-14

 

Record for the Bills before McDermott got here: 

5 years 6-10 6-10 7-9 8-8 7-9 

 

Are you just grasping? 
So again to your original point, by season 11.. McDermott should have 3 super bowls since he's had time to build a team now. 

It’s very funny because this argument in reverse is so much more persuasive. If McD and Allen had won three SB’s and Reid and Mahomes had 0.

 

“Reid took over a much worse team at 2-14. McD took over a fringe playoff team that was never gonna sniff the #1 overall pick.”

 

”it took Reid 6 years to find his franchise QB! McD found his by year 2!”

 

unfortunately we live in the reality where taking over a team picking 10th instead picking 1st is a “disadvantage,” and finding your franchise elite QB 2 years into your tenure is a “disadvantage” instead of finding him in 6 years.

[Bermuda Triangle]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Burrows been further too

As has Tannehill

 

 

Tannehill has gone further in the playoffs than Allen has?

[warrior9]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It’s very funny because this argument in reverse is so much more persuasive. If McD and Allen had won three SB’s and Reid and Mahomes had 0.

 

“Reid took over a much worse team at 2-14. McD took over a fringe playoff team that was never gonna sniff the #1 overall pick.”

 

”it took Reid 6 years to find his franchise QB! McD found his by year 2!”

 

unfortunately we live in the reality where taking over a team picking 10th instead picking 1st is a “disadvantage,” and finding your franchise elite QB 2 years into your tenure is a “disadvantage” instead of finding him in 6 years.

I'm not sure I totally disagree with you... more trying to understand what he's saying.. The "Andy Reid has had 11 years to build a team and McDermott only 7" argument is one of the strangest things I've ever read. Like 7 years isn't enough to implement your culture and build, etc. Both teams have probably turned over the same amount ... I'd venture to say the Bills have PROBABLY turned over less. The argument is just super odd and makes next to no sense. 

 

Also, Eric Fisher.. TERRIBLE until Reid got there. Before him was Dontari Poe and Jon Baldwin. After him was Dee Ford... hardly anything good there lol 

Edited June 5 by warrior9

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

I'm not sure I totally disagree with you... more trying to understand what he's saying.. The "Andy Reid has had 11 years to build a team and McDermott only 7" argument is one of the strangest things I've ever read. 

 

Also, Eric Fisher.. TERRIBLE until Reid got there. Before him was Dontari Poe and Jon Baldwin. After him was Dee Ford... hardly anything good there lol 

Oh I had nothing to disagree with, just making the point.

 

In my book, taking over a more talented team as an HC AND finding a franchise QB sooner should be a recipe to be MORE successful FASTER. The argument that @Buffalo716 is making is the opposite.

 

I don't think we can point to a team in history that was worse off because their coach took over a more talented team and found their franchise QB faster. Maybe McD and the Bills broke the mold in that regard.

Edited June 5 by FireChans

[warrior9]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh I had nothing to disagree with, just making the point.

 

In my book, taking over a more talented team as an HC AND finding a franchise QB sooner should be a recipe to be MORE successful FASTER. The argument that @Buffalo716 is making is the opposite.

 

I don't think we can point to a team in history that was worse off because their coach took over a more talented team and found their franchise QB faster. Maybe McD and the Bills broke the mold in that regard.

Andy Reid got Alex Smith and they went 13-3 (I believe) in their first year or second. Then draft Mahomes, went 11-5 with Smith (again, I believe) before starting Mahomes. 

 

McDermott got Josh his second year as coach. The correlation is identical. 6 seasons with Josh Allen in his absolute prime, being the best player in football, the DEFENSE being what's let us down the most in the playoff's, and having no Super Bowl appearances... is unacceptable in my opinion. This is what the Packers did with McCarthy and rode it for 13 years because they were awesome in the regular season. Having 1 SB win with Rodgers in 13 years is criminal. 

[Matt_In_NH]

24 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Andy Reid inherited a team that was 2-14 my man.... Chiefs record before Reid

5 years: 4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 10-6, 7-9, 2-14

 

Record for the Bills before McDermott got here: 

5 years 6-10 6-10 7-9 8-8 7-9 

 

Are you just grasping? 
So again to your original point, by season 11.. McDermott should have 3 super bowls since he's had time to build a team now. 

So the Bills were a less stinky pile of poo and that is a big difference?   If you cannot see the team has had a dramatic change is performance pre and post McDermott then there is no help.

 

I will take 1 SB.

[warrior9]

Just now, Matt_In_NH said:

So the Bills were a less stinky pile of poo and that is a big difference?   If you cannot see the team has had a dramatic change is performance pre and post McDermott then there is no help.

 

I will take 1 SB.

There is but we have 0 SB appearances with him and we have JA. 

 

So you're content with being a regular season powerhouse just because we win then and lose in the play offs? 

 

You know that McDermott has never beat a 1-4 seed in the play offs? He's never won on the road in the playoffs? We can go back and forth but the original point is his comment was absolutely WEIRD

 

"Andy Reid has had 11 seasons and McDermott has only had 7" LOL Yeah, well 30 other teams dont have a top 2 QB. 

[Captain Hindsight]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Umm unless your name is Tom Brady plenty of quarterbacks fall off at 33 or 34 lmao especially back in the day when you are allowed to punish quarterbacks

 

Including our own Jim Kelly

 

Donovan McNabb was really f****** good... 35,000 yards , 230 touchdowns 

 

Strong , mobile.. and a winner... This is Ludacris that people try to downplay Donovan McNabb

I also remember guys like Kolb, Aj Feeley, Vick, Koy Detmer, Jeff Garcia having great games/years under Reid. He is an offensive genius 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

There is but we have 0 SB appearances with him and we have JA. 

 

So you're content with being a regular season powerhouse just because we win then and lose in the play offs? 

 

You know that McDermott has never beat a 1-4 seed in the play offs? He's never won on the road in the playoffs? We can go back and forth but the original point is his comment was absolutely WEIRD

 

"Andy Reid has had 11 seasons and McDermott has only had 7" LOL Yeah, well 30 other teams dont have a top 2 QB. 

 

To me the real question is when does Terry hold Sean accountable for these playoff failures. Obviously, McDermott will be here in 2024 and probably 2025 even if the team takes a step back this upcoming season which could happen with all of the new faces. At some point that will change. 

[BigDingus]

I'm not a genius, but we've tried investing in defense, have a defensive head coach, and constantly prioritize defense in the draft & FA, yet it never helps come playoff time.

 

Yes, we need to try & outscore them. The closest we got was when our offense could keep up with them, but poor game management at the end of the game snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Reid & Mahomes know how McDermott's defense operates & what he likes to do. Our best shot is a creative OC & great offense to compensate for the defensive shortcomings.

 

Just give Josh a great OL & all the weapons in the world, and I'd trust them to find a way over trying to build up a McDermott defense that can somehow figure out how to stop Mahomes.

[wjag]

14 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Plenty of QBs still elite at 34. 
 

Rivers, Big Ben, staffford still good, favre, manning, Rodgers 

 

Endless examples.

 

Ok another example look at Alex smith: Andy Reid helped him get to pro bowls.

 

Look at his career outside of the Andy Reid years 

 

The QB protection rules have done more to extend QBs tenures than anything else.  Put anyone of those QBs in the Marino/Kelly/Elway era and they would be done by 35 too..  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Execute better.  Game plan better.  Stay healthier.  
 

Partially on coaching.  Partially on players.  Partially on injuries.  
 

We’re close.  Just have to be better when it counts.  Including 17.  He’s been great in one season ending loss (13 seconds).  He was pretty good last year.  Poor vs Cinci.  Below average vs KC in the AFCCG.  We need better from more than just coaching 

 

I'm happy to see some changes in there though.  Brady getting the full time gig to me seemed logical.  The offense wasn't considerably better in yardage or points even, but they were very improved at running the ball and maintaining time of possession. 

 

Babich getting promoted does seem like a changing of the guard.  The Frazier coverage defense got the team near the end, but it never worked against better QBs.  So with the loss of poyer, hyde, and tre - its likely a signal to some changes on defense.  Considering McDermott comes from a Jim Johnson coaching background, i think there is a willingness to pressure QBs differently than in the past.  

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, BigDingus said:

I'm not a genius, but we've tried investing in defense, have a defensive head coach, and constantly prioritize defense in the draft & FA, yet it never helps come playoff time.

 

Yes, we need to try & outscore them. The closest we got was when our offense could keep up with them, but poor game management at the end of the game snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Reid & Mahomes know how McDermott's defense operates & what he likes to do. Our best shot is a creative OC & great offense to compensate for the defensive shortcomings.

 

Just give Josh a great OL & all the weapons in the world, and I'd trust them to find a way over trying to build up a McDermott defense that can somehow figure out how to stop Mahomes.

 

The only way to stop a great QB like Mahomes is to get pressure with your front 4. It's a big reason why the Giants took down the evil empire twice on the biggest stage. The Bills don't have a DL that is close to doing that. Going to have to outscore KC in a shootout since the Bills won't be able to shut them down.

[corta765]

score more points

[Matt_In_NH]

9 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

There is but we have 0 SB appearances with him and we have JA. 

 

So you're content with being a regular season powerhouse just because we win then and lose in the play offs? 

 

You know that McDermott has never beat a 1-4 seed in the play offs? He's never won on the road in the playoffs? We can go back and forth but the original point is his comment was absolutely WEIRD

 

"Andy Reid has had 11 seasons and McDermott has only had 7" LOL Yeah, well 30 other teams dont have a top 2 QB. 

Reid is better, no argument from me.  The Chiefs and Reid are the 90's Bulls and the Bills are the Knicks or Jazz. Hopefully it does not stay that way.  IMO rotating the coach out is much more likely to make it worse not better.  I am not content with the results, they need to break through.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

To paraphrase Josh Allen's father:

 

"Bloom where you are planted"

 

For the Bills, that is on the right arm of Josh Allen.

 

For perspective.......this is how the Chiefs did it.

 

The Chiefs reached their first 3 AFC championship games(and 2 SB's) on the strength of what could be perceived as "over-investment" in surrounding Mahomes with talent.   Those versions of the Chiefs defense were not so good.   In fact, the 2018 D was arguably the worst in the NFL and they still took the AFCCG to OT and would have been the SB favorite had they reached it.

 

Those Chiefs already had two 1,000 yard receiving targets in Hill and Kelce when they made Sammy Watkins the 4th highest paid WR in the NFL.

 

Once they won a SB and dominated the AFC for 3 seasons the decisions they could make and still succeed were much different.   Now they enter most playoff games with all the pressure on the opposition.   And it shows.   They walk off the bus with the lead because of the psychological advantage.   Most of the changes they've made aren't because they are playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers........they are made because Chiefs ownership is just being thrifty and getting away with it.

 

The Bills are still in the development stage the Chiefs were in 2018-2019.

 

The closest they've been to a SB was 2020.........with their most talented offense and least talented defense of the past 4 years.

 

And with all due respect to Joe Marino...........the Chiefs basically never sack Josh Allen either.   It would be nice to take Mahomes down more and to me the reason that they don't is because their defense lacks the ability to adapt to their opponent as well as some others(including Spag's Chiefs).

 

But the answer is pretty clear, IMO..........if you want to break thru and get to and win a SB the way to do it is by giving Allen everything he needs around him and then some.

 

 

[warrior9]

31 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Reid is better, no argument from me.  The Chiefs and Reid are the 90's Bulls and the Bills are the Knicks or Jazz. Hopefully it does not stay that way.  IMO rotating the coach out is much more likely to make it worse not better.  I am not content with the results, they need to break through.

But what is the breaking point man? We don’t have a bad roster. We have an elite QB. A top 5 defense perennially. Usually when a QB (Rodgers , Brees, etc) doesn’t win a SB defense is holding them back. It’s happening with us in the playoffs only which with McD being a D head coach makes it all the more infuriating. McCarthy was absolutely holding the Packers back and I think he’s one of the worst HC of all time in clock management / game management. I don’t want to go down that route where we are “satisfied” for 13 years because we win in the regular season.