Buffalo716 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) 20 minutes ago, FireChans said: The 2016 Bills were much better than the 2012 Chiefs. This is legit inarguable lol. So the argument is that KC was making the playoffs every year with Reid and built a super team for Mahomes to start in, but the Bills, who make the playoffs every year with Allen, can’t also build a super team? So really, the difference is the teambullding of the Chiefs from 13-18 was far superior to the Bills of 19-24? Is that your opinion? No my opinion is that the bills are not far off from winning a super bowl This team with Josh Allen can certainly win a super bowl and they can beat the Chiefs The Chiefs built a great team while they already had Alex Smith... Patrick mahomes inherited a pro bowl roster The bills lucked into the playoffs the first year of McDermott... With great coaching also... Then gutted the roster in Allen's rookie year... Allen's roster wasn't capable of winning in big games till year 3... Mahomes went to a roster capable of winning big games So mahomes went to a roster capable of winning... Allen got a gutted roster where people here said worst wide receiver core in bills history with no line ... Then said play ball And we certainly are capable of beating the Chiefs now Edited June 5 by Buffalo716 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 3 hours ago, Nephilim17 said: I like Joe a lot. Wish his podcast had film and more graphics but I think he knows a lot and like to listen often. Didn't see this here and I thought it merited some attention. What he says here is interesting, and his conclusion may not please a lot of folks here. Some broad highlights: 1. Recapping the obvious: the Bills play the Chiefs very well in the regular season, in the post-season, not so much 2. As good as Mahomes is, his QB rating against the Bills in the playoffs is far, far higher than against other teams. I roughly recall a 20-point difference or so. 3. The Chiefs have been very good at letting good players go at the right time 4. Mahomes will obviously be good for a long time, and Jones for a while still, but hopefully a 35-year-old Kelce starts to decline 5. This is the big one — the Bills can't just "out score" the Chiefs in the playoffs, we have to get D line pressure on Mahomes, who might have been sacked just 3 times (if I recall) in 3 playoff games against the Bills. Joe says this last point is key: pressure that actually gets to Mahomes in the playoffs. Other teams sack him; we don't. He's not invincible but the Bills falter — in the playoffs — getting to Pat. Joe doesn't get to breaking down what we've been doing wrong and what we can do better but he doesn't think the key is simply getting better on offense. And he points out that Josh always comes to play against KC in the playoffs. Keep arguing all you want about Bills WRs but the Bills D-line is a big question mark, if not concern, when it comes to stopping our nemesis when it counts. The one player who consistently lets down in games against good competition is Ed Oliver. He was a monster playing against Pittsburgh’s poor OL but just invisible when playing against KC’s strong interior. You can say the same thing in a playoff loss against Cincy. I know Oliver was banged up but so was the entire Bengals OL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: How could we not say it was because of QB though for Andy? To be honest, I am not totally clear what we are really discussing here. 6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: These facts can't be disputed: 1. You can debate all you want about Mcnabb being a good QB. But he's not even in the same ball park as mahomes Well there is only one Mahomes but over 50 Super Bowl winning coaches, so clearly Mahomes isn't a prerequisite. A lot of QBs who are worse than McNabb have won Super Bowls. 6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: 2. When Mcnabb left and wasn't with Andy, he was garbage To be fair, that was near the end of his career too. 6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: 3. when Andy left and got an elite QB, he has 3 rings and counting. So how can we possibly say that QB wasn't the issue holding Andy back in Philly? Honestly I am really not seeing the correlation that the Eagles not winning a SB was all about the QB just because Reid won some Super Bowls with a completely different roster and a guy who may end up the GOAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Beane and McD perform above average at their respective roles. Reid and Veach are elite at their jobs. Unfortunately, even though both QBs are elite, the Bills will be hard pressed to ever top the Chiefs in the Allen/Mahommes era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: To be honest, I am not totally clear what we are really discussing here. Well there is only one Mahomes but over 50 Super Bowl winning coaches, so clearly Mahomes isn't a prerequisite. A lot of QBs who are worse than McNabb have won Super Bowls. To be fair, that was near the end of his career too. Honestly I am really not seeing the correlation that the Eagles not winning a SB was all about the QB just because Reid won some Super Bowls with a completely different roster and a guy who may end up the GOAT. The roster he inherited was horrible in 2013. He completely changed that franchise around He also helped make Alex smith into a pro bowler lol Andy is also an all time great coach and will go down as one of the best to ever do it. He just needed a great QB to put him over the edge. (Like every other great coach. Bill belichick ain't winning 3 super bowls with Donovan Mcnabb) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Just now, BillsFan130 said: The roster he inherited was horrible in 2013. He completely changed that franchise around He also helped make Alex smith into a pro bowler lol Andy is also an all time great coach and will go down as one of the best to ever do it. He just needed a great QB to put him over the edge. (Like every other great coach. Bill belichick ain't winning 3 super bowls with Donovan Mcnabb) Couple of things I think you should know: Andy Reid was also the GM in Philly, and their achilles heal were all the bad draft picks they invested in weapons for McNabb that became busts. Sounds familiar in KC. You do know these guys are Super Bowl champions right..Jeff Hostettler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams...And I can keep going...but the point is there are many SB winning QB's who were not near as good as McNabb was. So to say BB couldn't win a SB with Donovan McNabb is wild...especially as a fan of a team that lost to Jeff Hostettler with Jim Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Bruce and other HOF players on the roster. You do know that Reid took McNabb and Philly to the Super Bowl and nearly won it right? So I find it wild you think BB could never have won any Super Bowls coaching those Eagles teams, especially given BB resume is far greater than Reids and consider the GOAT at HC. Im not even saying Reid is a bad coach, he is an all time great. I just don't get this notion that you think McNabb, the best player on those Eagle teams and a borderline HOF player was the "reason" Andy didn't win one sooner. Especially win one of the biggest knocks on those teams were personnel decisions led by none other than Andy Reid. Again, Reid is an all time great, but don't think for a second that things he learned and mistakes he made in Philly didn't make him a better coach in KC. And that was the other persons point, that sometimes it takes time and lessons before a Coach, team, or player breaks through to that next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: He entered the league before Alex Smith and rivers and Stafford and Rodgers lol you can murder quarterbacks in 1999 and 2000 and 2001 and 2002 and 2003 You're literally just grabbing a couple of people... And thinking every quarterback plays great til they are 37 lol Jim Kelly is a Hall of famer and fell off of a cliff at 34... Donovan McNabb was really good no matter what you think... There's a reason he's on the Hall of Fame ballot every year as a nominee You have the opinion that obviously if you're not a top five All pro you suck.. because you can't say 230 touchdowns... 37,000 yards.. led the league in yards twice.. let the league in interception percentage... First quarterback ever with 30 touchdowns and less than 10 interceptions in a season Philadelphia eagles leader in passing yards and touchdowns... Fifth all time in rushing yards for a quarterback I could keep going on he was really good Andy Reid at least got to the precipice of the Super Bowl constantly in those years. McDermott has done that once. With six years of Josh Allen. And that one time we got laughed out of the stadium. There's really no excusing that track record, but whatever he's here this year so as usual we'll have to wait and see. But I'd like to think the fanbase as a whole will draw a line in the sand this year. Eventually he just has to get it done. No excuses. Just get it done. In fact just get close. Even a close loss in the AFCCG would represent progress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Just now, HappyDays said: Andy Reid at least got to the precipice of the Super Bowl constantly in those years. McDermott has done that once. With six years of Josh Allen. And that one time we got laughed out of the stadium. There's really no excusing that track record, but whatever he's here this year so as usual we'll have to wait and see. But I'd like to think the fanbase as a whole will draw a line in the sand this year. Eventually he just has to get it done. No excuses. Just get it done. In fact just get close. Even a close loss in the AFCCG would represent progress. The Bills team wasn't ready to win for McDermott's first 3 years here... But the bills have been on a tear besides winning the big one since McDermott's fourth year... Even Reid bowed out in the wild card or divisional for years before getting to the AFC championship game with the Chiefs In fact McDermott got there quicker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Couple of things I think you should know: Andy Reid was also the GM in Philly, and their achilles heal were all the bad draft picks they invested in weapons for McNabb that became busts. Sounds familiar in KC. You do know these guys are Super Bowl champions right..Jeff Hostettler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams...And I can keep going...but the point is there are many SB winning QB's who were not near as good as McNabb was. So to say BB couldn't win a SB with Donovan McNabb is wild...especially as a fan of a team that lost to Jeff Hostettler with Jim Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Bruce and other HOF players on the roster. You do know that Reid took McNabb and Philly to the Super Bowl and nearly won it right? So I find it wild you think BB could never have won any Super Bowls coaching those Eagles teams, especially given BB resume is far greater than Reids and consider the GOAT at HC. Im not even saying Reid is a bad coach, he is an all time great. I just don't get this notion that you think McNabb, the best player on those Eagle teams and a borderline HOF player was the "reason" Andy didn't win one sooner. Especially win one of the biggest knocks on those teams were personnel decisions led by none other than Andy Reid. Again, Reid is an all time great, but don't think for a second that things he learned and mistakes he made in Philly didn't make him a better coach in KC. And that was the other persons point, that sometimes it takes time and lessons before a Coach, team, or player breaks through to that next level. Again, how can we possibly say he wasn't the reason? lol. Mcnabb fell off an absolute clip without Andy. And when Andy left he won 3 rings with Mahomes What more evidence do you really want? Team structure? Ok It's not like Andy inherited a superbowl team in KC. He inherited a 2-14 team lol. What a coincidence: He won 3 super bowls when his quarterback was way better . McDermott has an elite QB already and nothing has changed since 2020 Edited June 5 by BillsFan130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 59 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Andy Reid had a head start on a franchise that was not as big as a perennial loser... And then even bowed out 4 straight times in the wild card or divisional round with the Chiefs It took him time to get past the divisional with Kansas City... By the time he had mahomes he had a stacked roster with two Hall of famers on offense... The handful of years before Reid got there KC was in bad shape. They weren’t making the playoffs every year like they are now. Reid turned that around then with Mahomes they went to another level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 90sBills said: The handful of years before Reid got there KC was in bad shape. They weren’t making the playoffs every year like they are now. Reid turned that around then with Mahomes they went to another level. 2 years before reid got there they were in the playoffs... Unless you have a top quarterback no team consistently makes the playoffs every year The bills were 17 years without it.. The Chiefs crapped out at 2-14 the year before reid got there... But won seven games the year prior.. and went to the playoffs the year prior to that The bills couldn't say that for 17 years.. then McDermott took us.. and we gutted the team even more... And gave rookie Josh Allen a depleted team Josh Allen got a depleted team.. by the time the Chiefs drafted mahomes... He got a loaded roster That's the difference ... Mahomes got to sit behind a proven quarterback and a good roster Josh Allen was thrown to the fire with a crappy roster and played through it Today I don't think the Chiefs are any better than the bills.. and I certainly think we can beat them I don't think the Chiefs are on a different level... I certainly think the Buffalo Bills can beat them Edited June 5 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Even Reid bowed out in the wild card or divisional for years before getting to the AFC championship game with the Chiefs In fact McDermott got there quicker Allen >>>> Alex Smith is more important than Reid >>>> McDermott, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. It's pretty sad though that McDermott with Allen has basically matched what Reid did with Smith. I mean really, that's the difference in quality we're talking about here. Hopefully Babich is actually the DC, play caller and all, and he happens to be an elite coach. Hopefully Brady happens to be an elite offensive guru. That's my sliver of hope for getting past the Chiefs this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) 14 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Allen >>>> Alex Smith is more important than Reid >>>> McDermott, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. It's pretty sad though that McDermott with Allen has basically matched what Reid did with Smith. I mean really, that's the difference in quality we're talking about here. Hopefully Babich is actually the DC, play caller and all, and he happens to be an elite coach. Hopefully Brady happens to be an elite offensive guru. That's my sliver of hope for getting past the Chiefs this year. Peyton Manning won one super bowl with a Hall of Fame coach... Again it takes as much luck as skill to win a super bowl... Reid lost three times in the wild card with Smith... Two more in the divisional... Josh hasn't lost in the wild card since his first postseason birth And already went to a AFC championship game which Smith never did... It just hasn't came together fully Again mahomes took over a consistent playoff team.. ready to win. Josh Allen did not have that same opportunity... The team grew with Josh Allen to the point where it's been banging at the door stop and ready to win .. and I certainly think they can But him and mahomes did not come into the same situation at all... Pat sat behind an established quarterback which is never a bad thing... Got to work out kinks... And had a solid line Josh was thrown to the fire , with no wide receivers or line his rookie year... And the bills grew with him The Chiefs were ready when mahomes stepped in... The bills weren't ready when Josh stepped in... That's the difference In 2016-17-18 the Chiefs roster was vastly superior to the bills... And we have been closing the distance since.. To where I think we are completely equal now and can beat them any Sunday Edited June 5 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 4 hours ago, Process said: Stay healthy A healthier Bills team absolutely beats them last year. Milano/Bernard and we win. It’s really that simple 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 17 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Again, how can we possibly say he wasn't the reason? lol. Mcnabb fell off an absolute clip without Andy. And when Andy left he won 3 rings with Mahomes What more evidence do you really want? Team structure? Ok It's not like Andy inherited a superbowl team in KC. He inherited a 2-14 team lol. What a coincidence: He won 3 super bowls when his quarterback was way better . McDermott has an elite QB already and nothing has changed since 2020 Ok, by your logic I guess Dan Marino is the reason Miami didn't win a Super Bowl given Don Shula won a Super Bowl without Dan Marino but never did with him. All good, but we can agree to disagree here, no biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 1 hour ago, Cray51 said: 13 seconds is a bills win 99/100 times it’s played. You can do this both ways I remember that as a 50/50 game And Allen had to stand on his head to make it happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Today I don't think the Chiefs are any better than the bills.. and I certainly think we can beat them I don't think the Chiefs are on a different level... I certainly think the Buffalo Bills can beat them It’s the NFL. Anybody can beat anybody on any given Sunday. However, the NFL is also a zero sum game so objectively KC is better because of their results. 3 titles in 4 trips vs 0 titles and 0 trips says a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Again it takes as much luck as skill to win a super bowl... I agree. Like being lucky enough to have the opposing kicker leave 4 points on the board and the opposing defense lose their starting safety. Or being lucky enough to have the opposing offense lose half their starting OL to injury. Or being lucky enough to have a fumble go out the back of the end zone when the game is otherwise over. One day we might get that lucky. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 90sBills said: It’s the NFL. Anybody can beat anybody on any given Sunday. However, the NFL is also a zero sum game so objectively KC is better because of their results. 3 titles in 4 trips vs 0 titles and 0 trips says a lot. Patrick mahomes also has his worst record of any opponent against the bills Josh Allen is going to get his revenge... He's not going to be The whipping boy to the Chiefs his entire career , I certainly believe he will hoist the Lombardi 7 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I agree. Like being lucky enough to have the opposing kicker leave 4 points on the board and the opposing defense lose their starting safety. Or being lucky enough to have the opposing offense lose half their starting OL to injury. Or being lucky enough to have a fumble go out the back of the end zone when the game is otherwise over. One day we might get that lucky. You act like we've never had breaks go against us lol We literally at points last year we're missing multiple guys who have been all pros ... And really good starters Not good football players.. all pros... And a stud young linebacker in Bernard We had AJ Klein covering Kelce because of injuries... That's as bad as it gets in the modern NFL ... We called up a 33-year-old washed up practice squad guy to start Josh Allen could mask injuries on the line... Because he could run... You can't mask half of your defense being really banged up Edited June 5 by Buffalo716 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Patrick mahomes also has his worst record of any opponent against the bills Josh Allen is going to get his revenge... He's not going to be The whipping boy to the Chiefs his entire career , I certainly believe he will hoist the Lombardi I thought Mahomes worst record is against Cincy. 1-3. I completely agree with the second part of your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.