OTAs 6/4

[BarleyNY]

43 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

A reason.  If he was attempting other moves and just couldn't do them....I would say he is completely done.

 

But he didn't put much effort other than locking up with the OT's and trying to get by them or have a wide bend hoping to get a clean up sack.

This is his signature move....I didn't see him even attempt it last season.  I paid attention to him a lot because he's Von Miller.

 

To dip under the OT's shoulder pads, you put a lot of stress on that one knee for a split second.  He didn't trust it last year IMO.

 

 

 

Von Miller was a freak. He could win with speed, power, technique (i.e. ghost move) and even bend. I hope he has recovered well and has something left in the tank, but three of those are likely impacted by this injury and his age. I don’t know of a single instance of an athlete in a similar situation making a quality comeback. Again, he’s a freak. So if I had to put money on someone doing so, it’d be him. And if he does come back to anything close to his old form, let’s not undersell that. It would be a very difficult and unique accomplishment by him.

[Coach Tuesday]

11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Von Miller was a freak. He could win with speed, power, technique (i.e. ghost move) and even bend. I hope he has recovered well and has something left in the tank, but three of those are likely impacted by this injury and his age. I don’t know of a single instance of an athlete in a similar situation making a quality comeback. Again, he’s a freak. So if I had to put money on someone doing so, it’d be him. And if he does come back to anything close to his old form, let’s not undersell that. It would be a very difficult and unique accomplishment by him.

 

He did not ever win with power.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

41 minutes ago, LEBills said:

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-te-receiving-yards-by-a-player-buffalo-bills-in-a-season

 

second most all time…it is a rough list. Scott Chandler may be the most prolific receiving tight end in Bills history at this point. Kincaid is going to rock this year

 

Knox's 9 TDs will be a tough one to beat

Edited June 5 by Slippery Rubber Mats

[BarleyNY]

28 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

He did not ever win with power.

lol. that couldn’t be further from the truth. Miller’s one arm power technique is also a signature move of his. Without it he would not be able to use his ghost move effectively. Here is some further explanation:

 

 

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

One thing about Von though is he sets up moves. He wasn’t playing enough last year to set up moves. Von playing 20-25 snaps is useless.

So you're suggesting that Von was ineffective last year because on all of those plays where he attempted to circumnavigate the Earth in order to get to the QB he was actually setting the tackle up for a sick move that never came because he was on the bench?

[Paup 1995MVP]

23 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Farewell Tommy Doyle, and we thank you.

What are you thanking him for?  Playing with a torn ACL at Miami in the heat bowl two years ago I assume.  

 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

22 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Let me open by saying I am not advocating for or expecting a Knox trade, but I also would not rule it out.  

 

First, under Brady the team ran a lot less 12 personnel last year, so keeping him just for that isn't as critical at this stage.  Although, to be fair, we don't actually know what a real Brady led offense is going to look like yet either, so he could have a lot more 12 personnel plans this year.  But...and most importantly...Knox carries a reasonable cap hit this year at $7.7m, but that balloons to $14m next year which there is no way we are paying Knox $14m next year.  Obviously, there are multiple options to deal with that, and trading him is one of those.

 

Cap wise, it's probably easier to find a trade partner this year.  And Knox absolutely has tradable value as he was a productive TE before we drafted Kincaid despite not being a featured part of the offense.  The 2 years prior he had 15 TDS and avg nearly 50 rec and 500 yards.  He is a good all around TE and would absolutely be an upgrade on a number of teams around the NFL, some with playoff aspirations this year.

 

So right now might be the best market Beane will see for a Knox trade.  Another season buried on the target priority list behind Keon, Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, and our RB's means another down year for production do to lack of opportunity (unless injuries change that) here which puts him next year 2 years out from when he was last productive while carrying a $14m price tag.  

 

But...Given our plans, the continued SB aspirations this year, the amount of turnover already on the offense, etc I still don't expect to see a trade happen.  But, I would not rule it out for the reasons I already stated, especially since this may be Beane's one shot of getting decent value for him via trade.  

Interesting thoughts Alpha.  What would you hope to get in return for a trade of Knox?  Knox is a solid NFL player but certainly not a big time game changer at his position.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

24 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

So you're suggesting that Von was ineffective last year because on all of those plays where he attempted to circumnavigate the Earth in order to get to the QB he was actually setting the tackle up for a sick move that never came because he was on the bench?

A multitude of reasons. He was recovering and age being the biggest. Von definitely sets up his moves though. So yes, he likely was attempting to set up moves but he just couldn’t do it last year. The question is whether he will ever be able to do it again.

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Interesting thoughts Alpha.  What would you hope to get in return for a trade of Knox?  Knox is a solid NFL player but certainly not a big time game changer at his position.  

 

Honestly, I don't even know...I mean I think a 4th rounder is probably about the most they could get and I would guess offers would start with a 5th.  Personally, I think Knox is a pretty good TE, I think from a talent perspective a 4th or late 3rd isn't unreasonable, the issue is he doesn't have the resume because he was not used as a primary weapon here which was a combo of the OC's in Daboll and Dorsey as well as the weaknesses in the OL where Knox had to be an extra blocker a lot.  

 

Daboll forgot the guy was on the team until the 2nd half of the last season Daboll was here where Knox finished with a career high 9 TD's and it looked like finally Knox was going to be used more.  Then Dorsey did the same thing his first season until later in the season he remember Knox played on this team and he finished with 6 TD's.  Last year was the arrival of Kincaid who is the better weapon, but not the better overall TE when you factor all the duties of a complete TE...at least not yet.  

 

I just can't see Beane considering a 5th, he has more value to us than that this year IMHO.  He might think hard about it for a 4th, but we already have three 4th round picks in the next draft, so not sure he feels the need to pull that trigger.  

 

I honestly think it is unlikely he gets traded unless someone is willing to something like this in which I will use the Giants in this example:  Giants send us their 3rd round pick and the Bills send back Knox and one of our three 4th round picks.  If someone was willing to do that, I think that would get Beanes attention.  

 

But ultimately, I still think it's most likely he is a Bill for 2024.

Edited June 6 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he is here for 2024 and then will be gone personally. If it was just about reducing cap hit an extension was the move to make rather than the restructure. He will turn 30 before the season starts. I dunno if the Bills want to be tied into him long term. 

 

Yeah, certainly possible and that wouldn't totally surprise me.  My concern with that approach though is we have nothing behind him.  If Elam doesn't break out this year, we are headed in 2025 with just Benford really.  We would need to rebuild the whole CB room in one offseason.  Rasul still has at least 2 or 3 good years in him, so feels a bit risky to not extend him even though I can see what you said happening.  Of course if Elam does break out to show starter ability this season that would be best case scenario, so that will be an interesting player to watch in camp.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

lol. that couldn’t be further from the truth. Miller’s one arm power technique is also a signature move of his. Without it he would not be able to use his ghost move effectively. Here is some further explanation:

 

 

 

He is (was) good at using leverage to set up his speed rush but he was never a power-rusher type.

[BigAl2526]

5 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Honest question: Is there a reason you think that or is it just hoping for the best?

I think the Bills will get more from Von Miller than they did last season.   He's not going to try and be an iron man though.  If he can play 30% to 40% of the defensive snaps and get 8 or 9 sacks I would be ecstatic. 

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

What are you thanking him for?  Playing with a torn ACL at Miami in the heat bowl two years ago I assume.  

 

 

 

Dude not only played hurt, he played injured.  Nice TD against the Cheats.  Gave 100% of what he had in the little playing time he did get.  He's earned our respect.

[Cash]

On 6/4/2024 at 2:13 PM, Jauronimo said:

Reminiscent of the epic Maybin v Wang camp battle of yesteryear.  Iron sharpens iron.

 

Not quite the same, but I'm also reminded of some clip from Sammy Watkins' first training camp that a bunch of posters were creaming their jeans over.  In the clip, Watkins put on a sick move to be sure, but it was against some UDFA CB who was like 14th on the depth chart.  I.e., not an NFL player.

[McBean]

7 hours ago, Putin said:

I’m rooting so hard for the Claypool signing to work out that would give us a legit WR2 who is still young , him and Colman could be a nightmare for DB’s to cover especially in the red zone 

Love it! Way better than what we’ve had in years past.

 

Trust the PROCESS. Future is bright.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

He is (was) good at using leverage to set up his speed rush but he was never a power-rusher type.

 

He was never a pure power guy but he had that in his arsenal when he needed it.  To move a man that is 70 lbs more than you with one arm, even with leverage requires a lot of strength.  Someone without a lot of strength might rock the Tackle back for a step or two but to continue to drive him back is power. 

[Beck Water]

On 6/4/2024 at 1:51 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Let me open by saying I am not advocating for or expecting a Knox trade, but I also would not rule it out.  

 

First, under Brady the team ran a lot less 12 personnel last year, so keeping him just for that isn't as critical at this stage.  Although, to be fair, we don't actually know what a real Brady led offense is going to look like yet either, so he could have a lot more 12 personnel plans this year.  But...and most importantly...Knox carries a reasonable cap hit this year at $7.7m, but that balloons to $14m next year which there is no way we are paying Knox $14m next year.  Obviously, there are multiple options to deal with that, and trading him is one of those.

 

Cap wise, it's probably easier to find a trade partner this year.  And Knox absolutely has tradable value as he was a productive TE before we drafted Kincaid despite not being a featured part of the offense.  The 2 years prior he had 15 TDS and avg nearly 50 rec and 500 yards.  He is a good all around TE and would absolutely be an upgrade on a number of teams around the NFL, some with playoff aspirations this year.

 

So right now might be the best market Beane will see for a Knox trade.  Another season buried on the target priority list behind Keon, Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, and our RB's means another down year for production do to lack of opportunity (unless injuries change that) here which puts him next year 2 years out from when he was last productive while carrying a $14m price tag.  

 

But...Given our plans, the continued SB aspirations this year, the amount of turnover already on the offense, etc I still don't expect to see a trade happen.  But, I would not rule it out for the reasons I already stated, especially since this may be Beane's one shot of getting decent value for him via trade.  

 

I've said this elsewhere but Spotrac's new format doesn't make this easy to suss out.

 

Here's Overthecap.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

While Knox, after taking a salary cut, had a very reasonable $7.7M cap hit this season, a big part of that is his signing bonus of $5M x 3 years (plus an additional 2 years of $1.17M tacked onto 2 void years).  

 

Altogether Knox has $17.54M of bonus money, which would all become dead cap instantaneously upon a trade.

 

So the Bills need to have $17.54M of cap space to trade Knox this season.  

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Same , plus I'm almost positive he re structured this off season , 

 

Correct, but it was one of those "we convert your salary to signing bonus and spread it out over void years" moves

 

7 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Cephus is gone I thought, released after MVS signing 

 

Correct, no Cephus.  No one has picked him up yet, either.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I've said this elsewhere but Spotrac's new format doesn't make this easy to suss out.

 

Here's Overthecap.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

While Knox, after taking a salary cut, had a very reasonable $7.7M cap hit this season, a big part of that is his signing bonus of $5M x 3 years (plus an additional 2 years of $1.17M tacked onto 2 void years).  

 

Altogether Knox has $17.54M of bonus money, which would all become dead cap instantaneously upon a trade.

 

So the Bills need to have $17.54M of cap space to trade Knox this season.  

 

Ah, well if that is accurate then I would say trading him probably off the table completely this year.  I saw someone else just referencing the $7.7m and was not aware he carried a bigger dead cap hit too.  Can't see Beane getting an offer so good he would take on that cap hit this year.  Which is fine, his ability to block and run 12 sets is probably worth more than any realistic offer Beane might have gotten this year.  

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I've said this elsewhere but Spotrac's new format doesn't make this easy to suss out.

 

Here's Overthecap.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/dawson-knox/7887

 

While Knox, after taking a salary cut, had a very reasonable $7.7M cap hit this season, a big part of that is his signing bonus of $5M x 3 years (plus an additional 2 years of $1.17M tacked onto 2 void years).  

 

Altogether Knox has $17.54M of bonus money, which would all become dead cap instantaneously upon a trade.

 

So the Bills need to have $17.54M of cap space to trade Knox this season.  

 

A trade (post-June 1st) could easily be done.  It's just $5M in dead money but more importantly a decent draft pick (the only reason to do it) and $2.66M in cap savings.