Gronkowski, Kelce, Graham, Ward - Why do fans want want a Randy Moss type?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Super Bowl has been dominated by Brady and Mahomes, so it inflates TE success. But the Eagles also won a Super Bowl with Ertz as their leading receiver. 

 

TE as WR1 is a proven success. You should also fill WR with talent but WR1 can definitely be a TE.

You don’t say lol. 
 

So we are following the plan that has only really consistently worked with 2 teams that had arguably the two greatest QB’s of all time, along with arguably twonof the greatest HC’s of all time, along with arguably two of the greatest TE’s of all time. 
 

Welp, let’s hope for the best despite going 0/3 in those criteria. 

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He likes to cherry pick things to make false conclusions that support his negative bias.  Of course Diggs and Kincaid count...but he won't acknowledge that because if he does it means the Bills have used their FIRST pick in the draft on a weapon for Josh in 3 of the past 5 drafts.  He will do anything to not have to admit that.

Oh man, 3/5. With all that investment, there’s no way we could have a destitute WR room and a gaggle of “weapons” led second best TE from the 2023 draft class. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I just want 2024 not to be "The Solo Josh Allen Show: Remix". I'm sick of that show. 

Time will tell if Beane has gone about the building of the offense correctly and to sufficient effect. I am less optimistic than others, but we'll all see soon enough.

**Edit: And before anyone says it: Yes, it would be REALLY nice if some defensive guys started stepping up, too. All the offensive firepower in the world won't do a thing if our defense can't learn to stop a nosebleed in the playoffs.**

 

I have an honest question here for you:  If Allen has a great season, maybe his best season, maybe even an MVP season...are you going to look at it as it was all Allen and he dragged this roster along with him...or will it be because he had a better cast that was better utilized around him?  

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You don’t say lol. 
 

So we are following the plan that has only really consistently worked with 2 teams that had arguably the two greatest QB’s of all time, along with arguably twonof the greatest HC’s of all time, along with arguably two of the greatest TE’s of all time. 
 

Welp, let’s hope for the best despite going 0/3 in those criteria. 

Oh man, 3/5. With all that investment, there’s no way we could have a destitute WR room and a gaggle of “weapons” led second best TE from the 2023 draft class. 

 

Well we traded one away...one is a rookie, and one is a 2nd year player.  Does NOT change the investment Beane made, and you only make it sound bad because you refuse to even acknowledge Kincaid and you didn't like the Keon pick.  Truth is, we don't know how good or bad this room is until we see it on the field...you on the other hand have already made concrete conclusions and statements about how "bad" it is.  

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I have an honest question here for you:  If Allen has a great season, maybe his best season, maybe even an MVP season...are you going to look at it as it was all Allen and he dragged this roster along with him...or will it be because he had a better cast that was better utilized around him?  

 

 

 

 

 

Well we traded one away...one is a rookie, and one is a 2nd year player.  Does NOT change the investment Beane made, and you only make it sound bad because you refuse to even acknowledge Kincaid and you didn't like the Keon pick.  Truth is, we don't know how good or bad this room is until we see it on the field...you on the other hand have already made concrete conclusions and statements about how "bad" it is.  

Listen man. Go ahead and list all the teams you think the Bills have better weapons than and come back to me once you can’t get past #9 without sounding insane.

 

enough of this.

Edited June 3 by FireChans

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I have an honest question here for you:  If Allen has a great season, maybe his best season, maybe even an MVP season...are you going to look at it as it was all Allen and he dragged this roster along with him...or will it be because he had a better cast that was better utilized around him?  

 

 

 

 

Have you watched our offense the last few years lol

 

It's entirely reliant on Allen accumulating yards+first downs+TDs at historic rates

 

 

[Logic]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I have an honest question here for you:  If Allen has a great season, maybe his best season, maybe even an MVP season...are you going to look at it as it was all Allen and he dragged this roster along with him...or will it be because he had a better cast that was better utilized around him?  

 

 

I think that if Allen has his best season -- maybe even an MVP season -- it will mean that the decision to oust Diggs was a good one. That Allen felt freed up to just throw it to whoever was open rather than have to placate an ego. That the necessity of Allen taking greater ownership of the offense and becoming more of an alpha leader led to a rise in the level of his play. That the way Beane decided to rebuild the offense was a good one, that Brady is a good playcaller. Ultimately, it will mean that my concerns were unfounded, that I was wrong, and that Beane knew what he was doing. 

If you have followed my posting career here at all, you'll know that I'm not the type to cling to my priors, or to root for a player or team unit to fail simply because I predicted struggles. I'd WAY rather be wrong. If the offense is gangbusters and Allen has a great season, I'll happily eat a giant plate of deep fried crow, and will admit that he was given an effective cast of players and a good playcaller. 

Now I have an honest question for you: If the passing offense struggles this season, slips multiple spots in the rankings in terms of scoring and yardage production, and the Bills offense is -- overall -- noticeably less effective than it's been the past few years, are you going to label it "growing pains" or excuse it away in some other fashion, or will you be willing to admit that some of us less optimistic fans were correct, and that Beane did not set Josh up optimally for success?

I'm ready -- and even eager -- to eat my crow if and when the time comes to do so. Can you say the same about yourself? 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, FireChans said:

Listen man. Go ahead and list all the teams you think the Bills have better weapons than and come back to me once you can’t get past #9 without sounding insane.

 

enough of this.

 

Here you go again...this is as stupid of an exercise as declaring who won the offseason on paper or who had the best draft a day after the draft.  The TRUTH is, that YOU have no idea how good or bad our group is...YOU have never seen them on the field together with Allen in this offense, and one has never taken a single snap because he is a rookie.  

 

And when I say YOU...it means all of us, but I am highlighting you because you are foolish enough to make conclusive declarations NOW before you have seen the product.  Its fine to be concerned or doubt it, but you like to say it's bad before knowing if it is or isn't and a LOT of people do NOT share your negative opinion, including a lot of analysis who think this group is pretty exciting.  

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Here you go again...this is as stupid of an exercise as declaring who won the offseason on paper or who had the best draft a day after the draft.  The TRUTH is, that YOU have no idea how good or bad our group is...YOU have never seen them on the field together with Allen in this offense, and one has never taken a single snap because he is a rookie.  

 

And when I say YOU...it means all of us, but I am highlighting you because you are foolish enough to make conclusive declarations NOW before you have seen the product.  Its fine to be concerned or doubt it, but you like to say it's bad before knowing if it is or isn't and a LOT of people do NOT share your negative opinion, including a lot of analysis who think this group is pretty exciting.  

 

 

 

 

post the list or move along. Enough.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

I think that if Allen has his best season -- maybe even an MVP season -- it will mean that the decision to oust Diggs was a good one. That Allen felt freed up to just throw it to whoever was open rather than have to placate an ego. That the necessity of Allen taking greater ownership of the offense and becoming more of an alpha leader led to a rise in the level of his play. That the way Beane decided to rebuild the offense was a good one, that Brady is a good playcaller. Ultimately, it will mean that my concerns were unfounded, that I was wrong, and that Beane knew what he was doing. 

If you have followed my posting career here at all, you'll know that I'm not the type to cling to my priors, or to root for a player or team unit to fail simply because I predicted struggles. I'd WAY rather be wrong. If the offense is gangbusters and Allen has a great season, I'll happily eat a giant plate of deep fried crow, and will admit that he was given an effective cast of players and a good playcaller. 

Now I have an honest question for you: If the passing offense struggles this season, slips multiple spots in the rankings in terms of scoring and yardage production, and the Bills offense is -- overall -- noticeably less effective than it's been the past few years, are you going to label it "growing pains" or excuse it away in some other fashion, or will you be willing to admit that some of us less optimistic fans were correct, and that Beane did not set Josh up optimally for success?

I'm ready -- and even eager -- to eat my crow if and when the time comes to do so. Can you say the same about yourself? 

 

If you followed my posting career I think you will see I am not going to cling to my priors either and I also don't make conclusive statements about things we have never seen, like this offense.  And even now, I am not saying the offense will be great...I believe in this group today, but make no mistake it's totally unproven both in personnel and Brady.  So if they struggle, I will want the changes to address the areas we are struggling as much as anyone.  

 

I asked you because you tend to talk about the Bills weapons the past 4 years like it mirrored something like the Pats last year.  Allen has had a better group around him than people give him credit for, and I think its a bit of an over exaggeration to say its all him.

 

I do agree that Allen needs more from his top guys in the playoffs where Diggs for example just never had a good postseason.

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If you followed my posting career I think you will see I am not going to cling to my priors either and I also don't make conclusive statements about things we have never seen, like this offense.  And even now, I am not saying the offense will be great...I believe in this group today, but make no mistake it's totally unproven both in personnel and Brady.  So if they struggle, I will want the changes to address the areas we are struggling as much as anyone.  

 

I asked you because you tend to talk about the Bills weapons the past 4 years like it mirrored something like the Pats last year.  Allen has had a better group around him than people give him credit for, and I think its a bit of an over exaggeration to say its all him.

 

I do agree that Allen needs more from his top guys in the playoffs where Diggs for example just never had a good postseason.

 

untrue

 

iirc you said it was impossible to trade diggs and belittled people who argued otherwise

[Alphadawg7]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Have you watched our offense the last few years lol

 

It's entirely reliant on Allen accumulating yards+first downs+TDs at historic rates

 

 

 

So Diggs didn't have well over 1000 yards?  Cook didn't rush for 1200 yards with 50 receptions?  Davis didn't score any of those TD's?  Kincaid didn't catch over 70 balls as a rookie?  

 

So the entire offense and all those receptions and passing yards were all Josh, had nothing to do with the guys catching them?  Got it.  

 

No offense, but I can't stand this gross exaggeration argument people make that it was "ALL" just Allen.  I watched many of his weapons make sensational plays to bail Josh out, or take short plays and turn them into TD's for Allen.  

 

Can Allen get more help...sure, every QB can.  To say it was only Allen is so over the top.  A guy who had a top 3 to top 5 WR the past 4 years, something most teams don't.  

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

untrue

 

iirc you said it was impossible to trade diggs and belittled people who argued otherwise

 

I battled the people who were making false narratives off Diggs quotes to make any and everything he did or said negative.  And yes, I initially thought it was impossible because I got wrong information on here from other posters about the cap hits being nearly $60m over 2 years and with our cap that seemed unsurmountable.  Once I found that was incorrect and that the cap hit was only $3m more this year than what he was making, I said it was totally possible, but still felt like next year made more sense unless things got worse behind the scenes and said that MANY times on this board.  Even FireChans thought Diggs wouldn't get traded until next year. 

Edited June 3 by Alphadawg7

[folz]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

In a league where passing is emphasized and in which the rules are set up to encourage its success...

The most important thing to do is get a quarterback.

The next most important thing to do is protect him so he stays upright and healthy.

The third most important thing to do is to get him some good players to throw the ball to.

The Bills have indisputably achieved goal #1. They seem quite likely to have achieved goal #2. I am uncertain that they have fully achieved goal #3, but I fear they may not have. Others are optimistic that they have done so.

We can argue all day about TEs vs WRs, having one or two elite options vs having a grab bag of different skillsets, etc, but at the end of the day, the proof will be in the pudding. There will once again come a moment in the playoffs where the Bills need offensive players OTHER than Josh Allen to step up. Will anyone be ready to answer the call? Tight end, running back, receiver, I personally don't really care. I just want 2024 not to be "The Solo Josh Allen Show: Remix". I'm sick of that show. 

Time will tell if Beane has gone about the building of the offense correctly and to sufficient effect. I am less optimistic than others, but we'll all see soon enough.

**Edit: And before anyone says it: Yes, it would be REALLY nice if some defensive guys started stepping up, too. All the offensive firepower in the world won't do a thing if our defense can't learn to stop a nosebleed in the playoffs.**

 

Nice post Logic. I'm on the more optimistic spectrum, but can also understand those who worry that we haven't done enough. Right now there is a lot of projection still.  And, as you said, either side, we have to wait and see what happens.

 

But, with the bolded statement above, and knowing that Diggs has been lackluster in the playoffs the last few years, I just thought I would look at a few playoff numbers to kind of see who might be able to step up in the playoffs (with what we have). Obviously Coleman as a rookie, and Samuel whose teams never made the playoffs, can't be weighed in to the conversation yet.

 

Playoff stats

Shakir 15 of 19 for 166 yards and 2 TDs (2 playoff years, 4 games)

Kincaid 8 of 11 for 104 yards and 1 TD (1 playoff year, 2 games)

MVS 15 of 24 for 250 yards and 3 TDs (last 2 playoff years, 7 games)

Claypool 8 of 14 for 84 yards and 2 TDs (2 playoff years, 2 games)

 

Diggs 27 of 46 for 289 yards and 0 TDs (last 3 playoff years, 6 games---yes, we all know Diggs had a great 2020 playoffs, but that was almost 4 years ago now).

 

So, let's look at their playoff catch percentages, yards per reception, yards per game, and TDs per game for all of them for the playoffs games noted above:

 

              catch %    yards/rec     Yards/game     TDs/game

Shakir     78.9%           8.7                  83                   1

Kincaid   72.7%           9.5                  52                   0.5

MVS       62.5%          10.4                 36                   0.43

Diggs      58.7%          6.3                   48                  0

Claypool 57.1%           6.0                   42                   1

 

The one caveat, of course, is that Diggs probably commanded more defensive attention than the rest did in those games, but he was also a #1 WR and should still be able to get his numbers (other #1s do).

 

And we know Gabe had 2 monster playoff games, but that was out of a possible 9 playoff games (two of which he was injured for). He had two other decent games (one with 85 yards and the second with 41 yards and a TD). But that still leaves 5 no-show playoff games for Gabe.

 

So, imo, there is a very good possibility that the current cast will outperform the old cast in the playoffs (especially when you include Coleman and Samuel to the mix and project more targets to Kincaid and Shakir). And obviously, it is not even worth discussing guys like Harty, Sherfield, McKenzie, etc. when it comes to getting anything done in the playoffs.

 

 

[Logic]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I asked you because you tend to talk about the Bills weapons the past 4 years like it mirrored something like the Pats last year.  Allen has had a better group around him than people give him credit for, and I think its a bit of an over exaggeration to say its all him.

 

 

Thanks for the response. 

I guess my answer would be that the "Josh Allen needs more help around him" narrative is not just my own, but one that seems shared by many unbiased reporters and national media, as well.

https://www.nfl.com/news/hall-of-famer-jim-kelly-believes-bills-need-to-get-qb-josh-allen-some-rb-help-jo

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/apr/05/the-buffalo-bills-and-josh-allen-need-to-change-but-will-they-be-able-to

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39385819/buffalo-bills-quarterback-josh-allen-supporting-cast-wide-receivers-running-back

https://www.the33rdteam.com/analyzing-every-nfl-playoff-team-projecting-their-futures/


Just from a quick Google search, there's a sample of different forms of the "Josh needs more help" narrative. From Chris Simms to Jim Kelly (whose quote admittedly came before Cook broke out) to Bill Parcells to reporters for ESPN and the Guardian, there are articles and quotes from over the past couple years talking about the Bills needing to do a better job putting help around Josh Allen.

This stance is summed up well by Bill Parcells, who said "you just can't play Solitaire in the NFL and expect to win".

Now to be clear, I don't think that the cupboard has been bare by any means. Diggs is/was a legitimate number one receiver, Cook just had a breakout season last year, Knox was a pretty good tight end even prior to drafting Kincaid, etc.

HOWEVER...yes, I DO think the Bills can and should have given Allen even more help than they did. The writing has been on the wall that Gabe Davis isn't a good WR2 for a couple seasons now. When veterans John Brown and Emmanuel Sanders and Cole Beasley left, effectively NONE of them were replaced. I like Khalil Shakir a lot and think he may have a great third season, but he's not there YET.

One need look no further than the Bills counting on big offensive contributions from the likes of Trent Sherfield, Deonte Harty, and now potentially Mack Hollins. But if one DOES look further, they see an offense which counted in big contributions from 34 year old Latavius Murray last year. An offense which had to bring back the ghosts of John Brown and Cole Beasley in the playoffs the year before that because they didn't have enough depth at WR to do anything else.

So no, I'm not a "the Bills haven't given ANY help to Josh Allen" guy. But I AM a "the Bills haven't given ENOUGH help to Josh Allen" guy, and I stand by that opinion. He has made chicken salad out of chicken ***** for a while now. Too often, the Bills' offensive gameplan has seemed to RELY on Josh Allen to be superhuman. That is, unless he was pulling on his cape and doing crazy Josh Allen things, the Bills offense has not often enough carried its own weight.

Anyway...all of this is rehashing the past. Leading into this season -- as I have gone over ad nauseum and no one wants to hear any more -- I continue to see disconcerting warning signs. I don't want to talk about them any more. You and I each know where the other stands on this issue.

Time will tell if the Bills have given Josh Allen the necessary weapons to succeed in 2024 and beyond. But to respond to your insinuation: Yes, I believe they have failed to give him good enough weaponry in seasons past, and I don't believe that's a minority opinion. As I showed with several of the links I posted, it's a pretty popular and not at all radical notion.

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I battled the people who were making false narratives off Diggs quotes to make any and everything he did or said negative.  And yes, I initially thought it was impossible because I got wrong information on here from other posters about the cap hits being nearly $60m over 2 years and with our cap that seemed unsurmountable.  Once I found that was incorrect and that the cap hit was only $3m more this year than what he was making, I said it was totally possible, but still felt like next year made more sense unless things got worse behind the scenes and said that MANY times on this board.  Even FireChans thought Diggs wouldn't get traded until next year. 

 

 

Did you really say the Bills issues with Diggs were "false narratives"?   Why do you think they traded him and ate that money?   And that you only shouted down people who wanted him traded because you hadn't bothered to look at his cap numbers yourself?  Are you even serious now? 

 

You know you could always just say "yeah, I was wrong". 

[Einstein's Dog]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If you followed my posting career I think you will see I am not going to cling to my priors either and I also don't make conclusive statements about things we have never seen, like this offense.  And even now, I am not saying the offense will be great...I believe in this group today, but make no mistake it's totally unproven both in personnel and Brady.  So if they struggle, I will want the changes to address the areas we are struggling as much as anyone.  

 

I asked you because you tend to talk about the Bills weapons the past 4 years like it mirrored something like the Pats last year.  Allen has had a better group around him than people give him credit for, and I think its a bit of an over exaggeration to say its all him.

 

I do agree that Allen needs more from his top guys in the playoffs where Diggs for example just never had a good postseason.

 

Well you did say  "literally 0% chance" which came across pretty conclusive.  Now with each passing day your point is looking on more on target.  Hard days for me to handle.

 

I've felt the Bills weapons have been pretty good.  And I've always followed Beane's logic.  I could see giving G Davis a bigger role.  I even could see Crowder and even McKenzie for bigger roles.  And this year I was hoping for a bigger role from Shakir - or at least maintain the role he had at the end of the year to extend throughout the season, same with Kincaid.

 

But I'm not on board with this year's moves.  The idea that you go from Diggs/Davis/Shakir/Kincaid/Cook to C Samuel/rookie Coleman/Shakir/Kincaid/Cook is a shocking downgrade.

 

My evaluation of Beane's work is primarily based on the off-season moves and their expected talent level for the upcoming season.  As it stands, IMO, this is by far his worst off-season.  Is he really going to do a rebuild in the middle of Josh's prime?

 

 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Did you really say the Bills issues with Diggs were "false narratives"?   Why do you think they traded him and ate that money?   And that you only shouted down people who wanted him traded because you hadn't bothered to look at his cap numbers yourself?  Are you even serious now? 

 

You know you could always just say "yeah, I was wrong". 

“I was given false information” is my new go-to legal defense.

 

Incredible lol

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Thanks for the response. 

I guess my answer would be that the "Josh Allen needs more help around him" narrative is not just my own, but one that seems shared by many unbiased reporters and national media, as well.

https://www.nfl.com/news/hall-of-famer-jim-kelly-believes-bills-need-to-get-qb-josh-allen-some-rb-help-jo

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/apr/05/the-buffalo-bills-and-josh-allen-need-to-change-but-will-they-be-able-to

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39385819/buffalo-bills-quarterback-josh-allen-supporting-cast-wide-receivers-running-back

https://www.the33rdteam.com/analyzing-every-nfl-playoff-team-projecting-their-futures/


Just from a quick Google search, there's a sample of different forms of the "Josh needs more help" narrative. From Chris Simms to Jim Kelly (whose quote admittedly came before Cook broke out) to Bill Parcells to reporters for ESPN and the Guardian, there are articles and quotes from over the past couple years talking about the Bills needing to do a better job putting help around Josh Allen.

This stance is summed up well by Bill Parcells, who said "you just can't play Solitaire in the NFL and expect to win".

Now to be clear, I don't think that the cupboard has been bare by any means. Diggs is/was a legitimate number one receiver, Cook just had a breakout season last year, Knox was a pretty good tight end even prior to drafting Kincaid, etc.

HOWEVER...yes, I DO think the Bills can and should have given Allen even more help than they did. The writing has been on the wall that Gabe Davis isn't a good WR2 for a couple seasons now. When veterans John Brown and Emmanuel Sanders and Cole Beasley left, effectively NONE of them were replaced. I like Khalil Shakir a lot and think he may have a great third season, but he's not there YET.

One need look no further than the Bills counting on big offensive contributions from the likes of Trent Sherfield, Deonte Harty, and now potentially Mack Hollins. But if one DOES look further, they see an offense which counted in big contributions from 34 year old Latavius Murray last year. An offense which had to bring back the ghosts of John Brown and Cole Beasley in the playoffs the year before that because they didn't have enough depth at WR to do anything else.

So no, I'm not a "the Bills haven't given ANY help to Josh Allen" guy. But I AM a "the Bills haven't given ENOUGH help to Josh Allen" guy, and I stand by that opinion. He has made chicken salad out of chicken ***** for a while now. Too often, the Bills' offensive gameplan has seemed to RELY on Josh Allen to be superhuman. That is, unless he was pulling on his cape and doing crazy Josh Allen things, the Bills offense has not often enough carried its own weight.

Anyway...all of this is rehashing the past. Leading into this season -- as I have gone over ad nauseum and no one wants to hear any more -- I continue to see disconcerting warning signs. I don't want to talk about them any more. You and I each know where the other stands on this issue.

Time will tell if the Bills have given Josh Allen the necessary weapons to succeed in 2024 and beyond. But to respond to your insinuation: Yes, I believe they have failed to give him good enough weaponry in seasons past, and I don't believe that's a minority opinion. As I showed with several of the links I posted, it's a pretty popular and not at all radical notion.

 

Well to be fair, when Daboll was here people all over were yelling that Allen needed more run game support and OL.  It was more about that than receiving weapons.  

 

And as far as Davis goes, no disrespect, but Davis earned the right to be considered the WR2, and that is coming from me who has been hyper critical of Davis the past 2 seasons.  But he put up 13 TD's in his first 2 seasons as a part time young player.  In 2021, we had Sanders and that team had its own offensive struggles mid season and it wasn't until Sanders got hurt that it became obvious the offense flowed better with Davis on the field than Sanders.

 

Then this offense went off in the playoffs including 9 TD's by Allen in 2 games where Davis had 4 of them against KC.  There was every reason to for the Bills staff and FO to feel like Davis could step up into the WR2 role full time, it wasn't just given to him by default.  When Sanders left, he also gushed over Davis and said he was a stud and built different.  So its not like they just threw some strugging player into that role.  

 

In 2022, Davis dissapointed and didn't prove to be consistent enough, but battled a lower leg injury all year.  Heading into the draft, Bills were high on Addison and Kincaid and wound up getting Kincaid.  Beane was preparing for Davis to leave but his potential repalcement was drafted before we could get him, so he went and got what was seen as the best offensive weapon still in the draft at that point in Kincaid.  

 

They also extended Diggs meaning they did not anticipate back then to trade Diggs this year.  Now they invested their first pick in another WR, but had they not had to trade Diggs, we would have Diggs, Keon, Kincaid, and Shakir as a young unit with a top 10 vet WR which would be an excellent combo of top end talent and young talent.  

 

Beane has invested 3 of his last 5 top draft picks into a recieving weapon.  He has also drafted OL and RB help in round 2 the past 2 seasons too, all to increase talent around Josh.  And those moves have led to the 2nd highest scoring offense in the league, and thats with us losing out on the points from the Bengals game that got cancelled because of Damar.  Thats with 3 OC's in 3 years.  

 

So, the real issue here is that I don't think Beane intended having to replace both Diggs and Davis in the same season.  But, he went out and got a solid WR in Samuels to help with that transition, Shakir has emerged, and we just drafted a very promising rookie to go with the excellent rookie we landed in Kincaid last year.  We got depth behind those guys and now have a 1200 yard RB with another young promising rookie RB.  We still have Allen and what should be a very good OL.

 

For me, it hasn't been as dire as some paint it, and it doesn't look as dire as some make it seem now, not at least until we see how this group plays together on the field and what a real Brady offense looks like this year.

[HappyDays]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I battled the people who were making false narratives off Diggs quotes to make any and everything he did or said negative

 

To be fair though, it turned out those narratives weren't false. He really was a problem child causing issues behind the scenes, and all the crap he did on Twitter and on the media circuit were in fact hints (not exactly subtle ones at that) that those issues were there. A large portion of the fanbase hand waved away all of those signs, and in many cases even mocked those who said there could be a potential separation coming.

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Well you did say  "literally 0% chance" which came across pretty conclusive.  Now with each passing day your point is looking on more on target.  Hard days for me to handle.

 

I've felt the Bills weapons have been pretty good.  And I've always followed Beane's logic.  I could see giving G Davis a bigger role.  I even could see Crowder and even McKenzie for bigger roles.  And this year I was hoping for a bigger role from Shakir - or at least maintain the role he had at the end of the year to extend throughout the season, same with Kincaid.

 

But I'm not on board with this year's moves.  The idea that you go from Diggs/Davis/Shakir/Kincaid/Cook to C Samuel/rookie Coleman/Shakir/Kincaid/Cook is a shocking downgrade.

 

My evaluation of Beane's work is primarily based on the off-season moves and their expected talent level for the upcoming season.  As it stands, IMO, this is by far his worst off-season.  Is he really going to do a rebuild in the middle of Josh's prime?

 

 

 

Yeah, I thought it was 0% when the cap hit numbers were wildly misunderstood around here.  

 

To be fair to Beane, I do not believe he ever intended last offseason to be looking at replacing both Diggs and Davis at the same time.  He drafted Kincaid knowing we needed new young weapons with Davis likely not being brought back.  And if we had Diggs, Keon, Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel everyone would be pretty stoked with that group.  

 

But, the Diggs situation produced a trade he couldn't turn down, getting the cap hit over with now and netting a 2nd round pick back was quite a bit for a WR with a rep who was on the wrong side of 30.  And with the emergence of Shakir and Kincaid last year, I think it made him more comfortable just making the move now, especially since we are already going young on the other side of the ball too.  

 

Beane knows he doesn't have the $31m dead cap hit on Diggs next year and he won't have Vons contract either.  Plus he has 2 second round picks and 2 fourth round picks.  Next year Beane has both cap space and extra premium draft picks to make what ever moves the team needs, so if the weapons prove to be too light, I have no doubt he will again be aggressive on getting more weapons here. 

 

Remember, in the last 3 drafts, Beane has used 4 of our 6 picks in the first 2 rounds on offense.  He is being aggressive to build around Josh and that was mostly done under the belief Diggs would still be here too.  

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Did you really say the Bills issues with Diggs were "false narratives"?   Why do you think they traded him and ate that money?   And that you only shouted down people who wanted him traded because you hadn't bothered to look at his cap numbers yourself?  Are you even serious now? 

 

You know you could always just say "yeah, I was wrong". 

 

No, what I got upset about was people trashing and dragging Diggs for every little thing he said and twisted it to mean all kinds of negative things that were literally not at all what he said.  And I still stand by that.  I also repeatedly said that if Diggs does become an issue or things escalate behind the scenes then they were going to have to trade him.  

 

I took the stance of waiting until something real came out rather than using crack jack decoder rings to twist words into negative narratives because some people just didn't like him.