BADOLBILZ Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Diggs was a liability of the playoffs. whole career--awful in closeout games. Total. dud. Well......about that...... Diggs isn't going to the HOF......not with the numbers needed as an accumulator nowadays. And the recent Bills teams will be as forgotten as the Marty Chargers or Marvin Lewis Bengals if they don't somehow win a SB soon. So ultimately Diggs will probably be remembered most for making one of the greatest plays in postseason history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 21 minutes ago, FireChans said: If he’s a HoF TE, then I have much less concern about the Bills receiving group. Statistically, it’s not likely though. The point of thread has nothing to do with a claim we need to add a hall of fame tight end. The point is the WR room is fine as is. And people's dreaming of adding some elusive WR that is the difference between winning the super bowl and not is silly. And also statistically not likely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 The Bills have a good mix of physicality and finesse in the receiving room now. Kincaid is more physical than people give him credit for and building upon that facet of his game has been part of his pro development plan. He should absolutely be their #1 receiver moving forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 44 minutes ago, FireChans said: How many teams win without a top 32 receiver? What team are we discussing that doesn't have a top 32 receiver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 8 minutes ago, Chaos said: The point of thread has nothing to do with a claim we need to add a hall of fame tight end. The point is the WR room is fine as is. And people's dreaming of adding some elusive WR that is the difference between winning the super bowl and not is silly. And also statistically not likely. Buddy, they guys that have resulted in the most rings in your OP, Kelce and Gronk, have 7 SB’s between them. And they are not only HoF TE’s, they are arguably the 2 best TE’s in NFL history, playing with arguably the two best QB’s in NFL history. Ward and Graham are legitimate afterthoughts compared to those two. “All we need is a top 2 TE of all time combined with a top 2 QB of all time to offset our garbage WR’s” is not a really good plan lmao. And an even worse justification for a crappy plan. Talk about silly lol. Just now, MJS said: What team are we discussing that doesn't have a top 32 receiver? The 2024 Buffalo football Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 46 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: 1) Basically, you and @Chaos have created a couple straw man arguments. Weaker versions of the factually supported argument about needing two very good WR targets to reach a SB. Where did anyone say the Bills needed a "Randy Moss"? Nobody said that. Where did anyone say that a "top 5" receiver was needed to reach a SB? Who said that, specifically? Anyone? Let alone it being some broad discussion point. You two created those false narratives so you could dispel them. 2) And yes, if you have two of the top 32 yardage producing WR in the league, you are doing damn good. Usually 4-5 teams have that every year and they are teams like KC, SF, Philly who have been reaching SB's. The Bills had two in the top 32 in 2020. That was the closest they've come to a SB. I didn't make that argument. You are putting words in my mouth. I stated that you don't need a top 5 receiver. I never said that anyone else argues that you do, although of course there are fans who believe that a top 5 receiver would get you closer to a superbowl. But I might argue that you need a top 5 TE. I think that moves the needle more than a top 5 receiver would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Well......about that...... Diggs isn't going to the HOF......not with the numbers needed as an accumulator nowadays. And the recent Bills teams will be as forgotten as the Marty Chargers or Marvin Lewis Bengals if they don't somehow win a SB soon. So ultimately Diggs will probably be remembered most for making one of the greatest plays in postseason history. I have said for months that the 2020-2023 Bills are going to remembered like the 2012-2015 Colts. a team that did not do enough to help their QB begging them to win a Super Bowl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 30 minutes ago, FireChans said: The 2024 Buffalo football Bills. You believe that the Bills currently do not have a top 32 receiver on the team? I guess that is your belief. I'm not going to make that assumption. I'd rather look at the results. I find it hard to believe that the Bills won't have a top 32 receiver in receiving production. That would be a failure and would likely require a lot of injuries, perhaps including to Josh Allen. Edited June 1 by MJS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 26 minutes ago, FireChans said: How many teams win without a top 32 receiver? It seems the majority of Bills fans do not think a good WR will be added. The love for Beane is deep and they cannot admit that it would be a huge stain on his resume if we go into a prime Josh season without a top 32 WR on the roster. On the flip side all the off-season moves come together into an excellent plan with just this one move. It's the linchpin move. It's the plan behind moving Diggs, why he didn't take any of the mediocre FA WRs, part of why he didn't double dip on WRs in the draft, why he didn't initially take all Josh money. Apparently, I am the only one who sees this. IMO Beane can continue to be a great GM, these are all things I would have done - I was rooting for them. But to not finish it off would result in a huge downgrade of my evaluation of Beane. June 3rd is Monday. It's coming. These type of ridiculous excuse threads will roll off the pages. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MJS said: You believe that the Bills currently do not have a top 32 receiver on the team? I guess that is your belief. I'm not going to make that assumption. I'd rather look at the results. I find it hard to believe that the Bills won't have a top 32 receiver in receiving production. That would be a massive, massive failure and would likely require a lot of injuries, including to Josh Allen. Correct. Do they have a guy on the roster who has ever been 32nd or better in receiving yards ever in their career? You believe in results, show me the results, not hopes and prayers. 3 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: It seems the majority of Bills fans do not think a good WR will be added. The love for Beane is deep and they cannot admit that it would be a huge stain on his resume if we go into a prime Josh season without a top 32 WR on the roster. On the flip side all the off-season moves come together into an excellent plan with just this one move. It's the linchpin move. It's the plan behind moving Diggs, why he didn't take any of the mediocre FA WRs, part of why he didn't double dip on WRs in the draft, why he didn't initially take all Josh money. Apparently, I am the only one who sees this. IMO Beane can continue to be a great GM, these are all things I would have done - I was rooting for them. But to not finish it off would result in a huge downgrade of my evaluation of Beane. June 3rd is Monday. It's coming. These type of ridiculous excuse threads will roll off the pages. If the Bills trade for a good WR, I will obviously complain less about their WR’s being really bad. It hasn’t happened. And probably won’t happen. Edited June 1 by FireChans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 12 minutes ago, FireChans said: Do they have a guy on the roster who has ever been 32nd or better in receiving yards ever in their career? Yes we do. So what does that mean exactly? Nothing. Just like it would’ve meant nothing if we didn’t Edited June 1 by NewEra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 minute ago, NewEra said: Yes we do. So what does that mean exactly? Nothing. Just like it would’ve meant nothing if we didn’t Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 22 minutes ago, FireChans said: Correct. Do they have a guy on the roster who has ever been 32nd or better in receiving yards ever in their career? You believe in results, show me the results, not hopes and prayers. Yes. Curtis Samuel and Chase Claypool in 2020 were top 32 wide receivers in receiving yards. But it is also a moot point because the Bills have turned over their receiving room and have a bunch of young weapons like Coleman, Shakir, and Kincaid. We are at the very beginning looks of the new weapons. They aren't proven yet. The Chiefs didn't have a top 32 WR going into last year. They had a bunch of young guys. One of their receivers barely cracked the top 32 in Rice at the end of the year. They did have Kelce at TE, though, and that covers a lot. The Bills have to take a step. They are in year 1 of rebuilding their receiving room. But Kincaid and Shakir will both get way more targets and we've seen how good they can be. Will they both be top 32 in receiving? I don't know, but I think it will be close even if they aren't. And if it isn't Shakir, it will be one of the other receivers like Samuel or Coleman. But just like the Chiefs relied on Kelce to be the consistent force last year, the Bills are relying on Kincaid to be that for the Bills while the receivers get up to speed. Edited June 1 by MJS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Just now, MJS said: Yes. Curtis Samuel and Chase Claypool in 2020 were top 32 wide receivers in receiving yards. But it is also a moot point because the Bills have turned over their receiving room and have a bunch of young guys like Coleman, Shakir, and Kincaid. We are at the very beginning looks of the new weapons. They aren't proven yet. The Chiefs didn't have a top 32 WR going into last year. They had a bunch of young guys. One of their receivers barely cracked the top 32 in Rice at the end of the year. They did have Kelce at TE, though, and that covers a lot. The Bills have to take a step. They are in year 1 of rebuilding their receiving room. But Kincaid and Shakir will both get way more targets and we've seen how good they can be. Will they both be top 32 in receiving? I don't know, but I think it will be close even if they aren't. And if it isn't Shakir, it will be one of the other receivers like Samuel or Coleman. But just like the Chiefs relied on Kelce to be the consistent force last year, the Bills are relying on Kincaid to be that for the Bills while the receivers get up to speed. Samuel was 33 in 2020. But yes Claypool was 31 and sneaks in. You are right. They aren’t proven yet is a very nice way of saying they’ve proven nothing so far. The Chiefs had a top 32 receiving target last year. They had Travis Kelce, who was 29th in 2023, 8th in 2022, 14th in 2021 etc etc. A no question first ballot HoF target. The Bills do not have this, right? Rice was unproven and ended up 32nd, which is better than anything any current Bills receiver has done except for Claypool 4 years and 3 teams ago. The year before that, they had JuJu in 2022 who was 24th (and of course had that top 5 season many years prior.) If you are a believer in the “hey Kincaid, I know it’s your second year in the league, but we need you to be a top 2 all-time HoF TE next year for our offense to work” plan, more power to you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 I can't think of a subject during the McBeane years which occupied more off-season discussion than what they've done at WR. It's now the 4th straight off-season we're talking about it. It got a lot louder in 2024. Each of the past 4 off-seasons this sequence occurs: 1. Debate ensues about whether they need better receivers. 2. Bills sign some low-end short-term UFAs WRs and miss on top prospects. McBeane say they're good to go and homers predictably agree. 3. Season gets off to good start in first month. 4. Mid-season swoon begins with offense struggling. 5. People start wondering on TBD why they didn't do more at receiver. Homers retreat to silence. 6. Season ends and process starts anew. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 6 minutes ago, BillsVet said: I can't think of a subject during the McBeane years which occupied more off-season discussion than what they've done at WR. It's now the 4th straight off-season we're talking about it. It got a lot louder in 2024. Each of the past 4 off-seasons this sequence occurs: 1. Debate ensues about whether they need better receivers. 2. Bills sign some low-end short-term UFAs WRs and miss on top prospects. McBeane say they're good to go and homers predictably agree. 3. Season gets off to good start in first month. 4. Mid-season swoon begins with offense struggling. 5. People start wondering on TBD why they didn't do more at receiver. Homers retreat to silence. 6. Season ends and process starts anew. You’re missing a step. 6. Josh Allen plays at or near the best level of his career in the postseason while the rest of his teammates no show, and we wonder why we can’t beat the Chiefs when we have Trent Sherfield alligator-arming passes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 29 minutes ago, FireChans said: Who? And it doesn’t even matter. This is all nonsense. One person picks a random stat and now all of his followers act as if this means anything. Answer me this: this time last offseason, say chiefs fans are discussing the same exact thing- many WRs on KCs roster had finished top 32? DOOOOOOOM!! 1 minute ago, FireChans said: You’re missing a step. 6. Josh Allen plays at or near the best level of his career in the postseason while the rest of his teammates no show, and we wonder why we can’t beat the Chiefs when we have Trent Sherfield alligator-arming passes. As we watched Josh make 2 bone headed plays to end our season. As we watched our “elite” WR that everyone now clamors for, no show for 4 straight years in season ending losses. As we watched the chiefs win back to back super bowls with WR2/3’s masquerading as WR1’s 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 minute ago, NewEra said: And it doesn’t even matter. This is all nonsense. One person picks a random stat and now all of his followers act as if this means anything. Answer me this: this time last offseason, say chiefs fans are discussing the same exact thing- many WRs on KCs roster had finished top 32? DOOOOOOOM!! They had Kelce lol. And their receiver group still kinda sucked. Luckily, they had an elite defense that showed up in the regular season and the postseason. Good thing the Bills highly paid defenders have a history of carrying this team to victory in the postseason. Lmao. If you want, I can go point by point why the 2024 Bills are not the 2023 Chiefs, but you’ll just cry about how it’s not fair that the 3x SB championship team is better than the 3x reigning divisional round participant Bills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonyBoy Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 2 hours ago, Chaos said: Ward was a great player. No question about it. Not a single thread post I have seen clamoring for improving the WR room, has indicated that we need a Hines Ward type though. Its clear you are being intentionally obtuse. Get a life. Anytime I hear obtuse, I think of this movie. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 32 minutes ago, MJS said: But just like the Chiefs relied on Kelce to be the consistent force last year, the Bills are relying on Kincaid to be that for the Bills while the receivers get up to speed. “Just like”? Kelce was coming off a season where he was 3rd in catches, 8th in yards, and 2nd in TDs. Kincaid is coming off a season where he was 34th in catches, 56th in yards, and in a 46 way tie for 113th in TDs. Those are two very different scenarios. I like Kincaid and think he’s going to be a good player in the league for a long time, but it’s probably wise to pump the brakes on putting him in the HOF just yet. If he increases his yardage total next year by 30%, that would give him 875 yards. That would have ranked him 39th overall and 7th among TEs just ahead of Trey McBride last year. If he increases it by 40%, he’d be at 942 yards which would have ranked 32nd overall or basically the minimum threshold for being a #1 target in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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