Waddle gets paid

[Shaw66]

52 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Come on Shaw! Maintain a sense of humor. 

Sotry.   I loved yours and House, too.  No hard feelings at all. They funny posts.  

 

But I did think it was interesting how many people said it was a bad move.  They weren't posting in my thread!

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I expected a few of these comments, and there have been some.  

 

However, I find it interesting that the general tenor of comments from people here is that the Dolphins are idiots for spending so much money on wideouts.   Someone said Hill and Waddle will make more than the entire Bills wide receiver room.  It's probably true.   The question is whether Miami's offensive production will be THAT much better the Bills because they have these two guys.  And the answer is, no.  

 

Whatever.  We've had that discussion, and it was fun.  We don't need to have it again.

 

I, like many here, was glad to see that Miami did.  I don't think they have the right quarterback, and it's really dumb to spend money on receivers if you don't have a quarterback.  It just limits what you have when the right QB comes along.  And because I don't think they have the right QB, I'm hoping that they give him a big contract.  Then they're in cap hell and don't have a QB.   That would be great.  

100% agree.  The Bills in the drought years had Lee Evans, but his career was wasted due to the Bills inability to find him a franchise QB except for one season.  

[Shaw66]

51 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I mean, "right quarterback" for what? Winning a Super Bowl? There are probably 28 starting QBs in the league right now that will never do that. What quarterback is just going to drop in their lap that's gonna do that for them?

Before you try to win a Super Bowl, you have to be a winning team, and they've been that under Tua and then some. I though the kid would be a joke at the NFL level, but when he's been healthy he's been pretty good. He's not a top 3 guy or anything, but he's a top 10 player for sure. If there's a top QB available in next year's draft, there's virtually nothing they could do to get him and in an attempt to do so, they'd alienate Tua and have to go all-in on an unknown entity. It would also push Hill and Mostert to the end of their prime and they'd have to start all over again.

At a certain point, you just have to commit with what you've got accepting your chances are lower than what you'd like or just blow everything up and end up with no chance for years.

Yeah, I hear you, and what you say makes sense.   I see it a little differently.  I'd say at any given time in the NFL there 2 to 5 QBs who essentially make their teams contenders every year.  Rodgers was and may still be one.  Josh, Patrick, Burrow's on my list.   We coudl talk about the list, and different people would have some different guys on this list, but we pretty much know who those guys are.  

 

Then there are another half dozen guys or so who are good enough that when everything falls right, they might win a Super Bowl.  Personally, I think Goff is one of those.  He doesn't really scare me in August, but it all may come together for him in some year.  If you're the GM, I think you have to swallow hard and pay the guy, which is what the Lions did. 

 

For me, however, Tua is not in that group.  I think Tua is a system QB who's fine when he can run the offense on script and make quick throws.  He's really good at that.  But when the play has to be extended, he's really poor.  Six to ten plays a game, maybe more, the play demands that your QB be creative.   Mahomes and Allen are great at it.   Goff is okay,  Tua isn't even okay.  On top of that, he's an injury risk.  I think it's five-year mistake to give him a big second contract.  He's going to disappoint them, and when they figure that out, it will be too late.  

 

I know, it's hard to let a guy walk who's been productive, but I think the Dolphins won't win with him.  

[TBBills Fan]

10 hours ago, dorquemada said:

Waddle is an excellent receiver, but I'm wondering if we're at one of those inflection points where having a number of mid tier guys that can catch is going to be the future vs an all star or two.  I'm hoping anyways! If you had told me 30 years ago that RB was a commodity position, i wouldnt have believed you.

I see what you see and agree. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I agree...eventually this expensive and unsustainable Tua, Waddle & Hill bubble will burst.

Burst…Hard for a bubble to bust if it never existed.  They have beaten a team with a .500 record or better twice in 2 years and have no playoff wins.  
 

They are going to miss the playoffs this year.

[NORWOODS FOOT]

I don’t usually feel glee… but this is getting me into the neighborhood!

[TBBills Fan]

The fins needs to lock tua in for 50 mil annually now!!

[Behindenemylines]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I hear you, and what you say makes sense.   I see it a little differently.  I'd say at any given time in the NFL there 2 to 5 QBs who essentially make their teams contenders every year.  Rodgers was and may still be one.  Josh, Patrick, Burrow's on my list.   We coudl talk about the list, and different people would have some different guys on this list, but we pretty much know who those guys are.  

 

Then there are another half dozen guys or so who are good enough that when everything falls right, they might win a Super Bowl.  Personally, I think Goff is one of those.  He doesn't really scare me in August, but it all may come together for him in some year.  If you're the GM, I think you have to swallow hard and pay the guy, which is what the Lions did. 

 

For me, however, Tua is not in that group.  I think Tua is a system QB who's fine when he can run the offense on script and make quick throws.  He's really good at that.  But when the play has to be extended, he's really poor.  Six to ten plays a game, maybe more, the play demands that your QB be creative.   Mahomes and Allen are great at it.   Goff is okay,  Tua isn't even okay.  On top of that, he's an injury risk.  I think it's five-year mistake to give him a big second contract.  He's going to disappoint them, and when they figure that out, it will be too late.  

 

I know, it's hard to let a guy walk who's been productive, but I think the Dolphins won't win with him.  

I hope it’s a 5 year mistake.  Hate the dolphins and their stupid crappy blue and vomit orange colours 

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

What?  T Brady had M Evans and C Godwin - both expensive (along w Gronk)

             M Stafford had C Kupp and OBJ

I think it would be wise for the Bills to invest in a good WR.

 

Some teams are now doing the expensive QB/WR1/WR2 route like Philly.  I don't know how they're going to do it.

 

But I agree the Dolphins are going to be in trouble soon.

Go check their cap numbers the years they won in TB then report back. 

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, Mango said:

Go check their cap numbers the years they won in TB then report back. 

They just kicked the cap hit can down the road. They were still highly paid.

[Special K]

1 hour ago, TBBills Fan said:

The fins needs to lock tua in for 50 mil annually now!!

 

If any team would be stupid enough to give Tua Turnthaballova a big contract, I guess it would be the Fins.

 

Giving him a big contract would be equal to this, IMO:

 

[Rampant Buffalo]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I expected a few of these comments, and there have been some.  

 

However, I find it interesting that the general tenor of comments from people here is that the Dolphins are idiots for spending so much money on wideouts.   Someone said Hill and Waddle will make more than the entire Bills wide receiver room.  It's probably true.   The question is whether Miami's offensive production will be THAT much better the Bills because they have these two guys.  And the answer is, no.  

 

Whatever.  We've had that discussion, and it was fun.  We don't need to have it again.

 

I, like many here, was glad to see that Miami did.  I don't think they have the right quarterback, and it's really dumb to spend money on receivers if you don't have a quarterback.  It just limits what you have when the right QB comes along.  And because I don't think they have the right QB, I'm hoping that they give him a big contract.  Then they're in cap hell and don't have a QB.   That would be great.  

 

Think about dynasty teams. Teams which won at least three Super Bowls, with at least some player overlap. In the '70s it was the Steelers. '80s 49ers. '90s Dallas Cowboys. 2001 - 2020 Patriots. 2021 - present Chiefs. What do all those teams have in common? Elite pass catchers. The Steelers had two Hall of Fame WRs. During the second half of their dynasty the 49ers had Jerry Rice. The Cowboys had Michael Irvin (almost as good as Rice) and Novacek (Pro Bowl TE). The Patriots had Gronkowski (a top 3 all time TE) and Edelman (a very good WR) for a large chunk of their dynasty. The Chiefs have Kelce (another top 3 all time TE) and have had elite (Tyreek Hill) or good (Rashee Rice) play from their #1 WR. So yeah, it absolutely makes sense to pay good money for an elite WR and/or TE.

 

But you know what else all those dynasty teams have had? A franchise QB. The Dolphins don't have that.

[Thrivefourfive]

Bad news, these guys are costing a ton.

 

the good news is the contracts are getting much shorter. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

8 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ya I read that article from florio that he thinks WRs will turn into RBs.

 

No way IMO as the top guys will always break bank.

 

I think the guys who will suffer in the WR market in the next 5 years or so are the guys like Gabe Davis . The above average to middle guys

 

In no way, shape, or form do I see a valid comparison between WRs and RBs.

 

Will the middle market guys suffer five years down the line? I guess we'll have to wait five years to see! As for Gabe Davis himself: he just made bank, and is now significantly overpaid.

 

[machine gun kelly]

They will have to pay the piper eventually.  They still will fall short.  Here’s to a 5th year as AFCE champs.  
 

Go Bills!

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, Low Positive said:

McDaniel thinks that QB play is not as important as speed at the skill positions. 

 

He is from the Shanahan school. They don't believe in QBs as field generals. They believe their scheme is the star. Get talented playmakers and get a QB who will paint by numbers. The problem with that approach is your path to victory is narrower and as Shanahan has found twice to his cost when the game is on the line in big moments having an elite Quarterback is preferable to an elite scheme. 

[Bill from NYC]

18 hours ago, Putin said:

Dolphins WR2 makes more $ then the Bills entire WR and TE room ? 

Yes because he is worth more.

[Bill from NYC]

20 hours ago, BeastMaster said:

Dumb decision by Miami

 

Without Hill, Waddle would struggle to be a number one receiver IMHO 

 

He's being paid as that, and with Hill clearly being the guy...I imagine it's only a matter of time before he makes noise about a pay raise himself

 

 

Ya think? He put up amazing stats playing opposite Hill. If Hill wasn't there he would get even more chances.  Defenses cannot stack up against Hill and limit coverage on Waddle because if they did he would destroy them.

 

The man was a great player the first day he stepped onto the field. If Josh Allen was his QB the Bills would win a Super Bowl. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31 by Bill from NYC

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I hear you, and what you say makes sense.   I see it a little differently.  I'd say at any given time in the NFL there 2 to 5 QBs who essentially make their teams contenders every year.  Rodgers was and may still be one.  Josh, Patrick, Burrow's on my list.   We coudl talk about the list, and different people would have some different guys on this list, but we pretty much know who those guys are.  

 

Then there are another half dozen guys or so who are good enough that when everything falls right, they might win a Super Bowl.  Personally, I think Goff is one of those.  He doesn't really scare me in August, but it all may come together for him in some year.  If you're the GM, I think you have to swallow hard and pay the guy, which is what the Lions did. 

 

For me, however, Tua is not in that group.  I think Tua is a system QB who's fine when he can run the offense on script and make quick throws.  He's really good at that.  But when the play has to be extended, he's really poor.  Six to ten plays a game, maybe more, the play demands that your QB be creative.   Mahomes and Allen are great at it.   Goff is okay,  Tua isn't even okay.  On top of that, he's an injury risk.  I think it's five-year mistake to give him a big second contract.  He's going to disappoint them, and when they figure that out, it will be too late.  

 

I know, it's hard to let a guy walk who's been productive, but I think the Dolphins won't win with him.  

At this point Burrows has to have an asterisk that says “for seasons he plays in”

 

Jujitsu notwithstanding, I expect every GM sees Tua as a substantially above average injury risk.

Edited May 31 by Chaos

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Ya think? He put up amazing stats playing opposite Hill. If Hill wasn'rt there he would get even more chances.  Defenses cannot stack up against Hill and limit coverage on Waddle because if they did he would destroy them.

 

The man was a great player the first day he stepped onto the field. If Josh Allen was his QB the Bills would win a Super Bowl. 

 

 

Yea he had 1,000 yards as a rookie without Hill opposite him. He was well on his way to #1 receiver status in any event. Of course Josh Allen being our Quarterback is the reason Waddle isn't our receiver. I do think Beane has under prioritised the position in the draft with his Carolina method of valuing receivers but it is a fair point that he makes that a lot of the studs that have come out in recent years have gone way up at the top of the class, as Waddle did indeed.