How do you envision Khalil Shakir being utilized in this years offense?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

The team as a whole did and it was mostly the improvement in defense.  Forcing turnovers and stops at key moments.  Zappe just threw another pick to Douglas last night.  The biggest change Brady made was running the ball more and more effectively helped with time of possession increasing it about five minutes per game under Brady (34:38 from 29:50).  They simply played better complimentary football with Brady at the helm.  That unfortunately involved running Allen on more designed runs similar to what we saw at the end of 2021.  Brady has a tough task next season of breaking in at least three new WR's and finding a way to run an efficient/effect offense without all the designed QB runs.

 

It was both offense and defense that sucked in that run from Jacksonville to Denver. The Jags game (painful, I was there) they couldn't move the ball almost at all until the game was done. Our first nine drives we had two that went for more than 20 yards. It was abominable play calling. I actually think the defense kept us in that game longer than it had any right to given they were undermanned going in and then lost Milano and Daquan within the first drive. 

 

The Giants game the offensive gameplan was mystifying. Our best player was clearly James Cook and Dimwit Dorsey kept ignoring him and passing or running old man Murray. The Patriots game the offense was woeful first half but I put that game almost entirely on McDermott. He called an absolutely shocking game on defense. Jones was clueless except when we blitzed him and he could get to his hot so we spent all day blitzing. Baffling. Tampa, Cincy and Denver were a both units just playing uneven at different times. I'm not sure what was going on in that run of games but for a team as talented as to Bills to play that poorly for a 6 game spell really is inexplicable. 

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Interesting numbers but I wish you'd include the two playoff games for a better sample size.  What I do find relevant is our WR's had 21 drops in 9 games (playoffs included) under Brady and only 12 drops on in 10 games under Dorsey.  That took away some first downs, big plays, and TD's which drives all those metrics up. 

 

For example, if you go by PFF's metrics for adjusted completion percentage (the % of aimed passes thrown on target) he was at 79.1% the 10 games under Dorsey and 74.3% the 9 games under Brady last year.  The 74.3% under Brady was more in line with his combined season/postseason stats in 2021 (74.2%) and 2022 (74.8%).  He definitely slipped a little passing wise from Dorsey to Brady but not as much as those numbers suggest.  Certainly not as bad as his 2018 (64.7%) or 2019 season (70.6%).

 

The question is why on the drops.  

 

The issue in analyzing Drops is that it's subjective unlike other metrics.  

 

Either way, not too get into the minutiae, the point is twofold, first, it counters the narrative(s), and secondly, let's hope it changes.  It'll have to if we're to see improvement.  

 

 

[HoofHearted]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Hope you and all your family are safe (1st priority) and property relatively unscathed (2nd priority).

 

Can you say more about Deep Choice, what it is and how the Bills were using it last year?  

 

Also Zone Insert?

 

Some of us may know both when we see them, but not by those names.

 

I think Samuel is also a strong and capable blocker, but it's a testament to Shakir that you see him as our best perimeter blocker now because it shows he really worked at it.   As far as Beasley's blocking, the best I can say for that is "he tried"

 

Great question by the way

 

 

Here is a good article on Deep Choice. As far as zone insert, we were mostly running same side with Shakir in a nasty split. I couldn't find any images of it online, but I can draw it up later when I have more time. Essentially the way it fits out is like ISO (which I think is what I was calling it in my run game breakdown last season), but you're not isolating a linebacker because of the defensive personnel vs the personnel we had on the field at the time.

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong...the discussion was about the reduction in yards for Allen under Brady.  

• FACT:  5 of the 7 teams the Bills faced were top 10 defenses on yards allowed per game.  
• FACT:  4 of the 7 teams were playoffs teams.
• FACT:  The SOS under Brady was significantly harder in the 7 games and they collectively had a winning record of 61-58 for a .512%.  Under Dorsey, the collective record was a losing record of 75-95 for a .441%.  
• FACT:  Weather was worse in outdoor games during the back end of the season compared to the front end of the season.  
• FACT:  Brady had to take over during the season and modify and adjust the offense within the confines of someone else's playbook and did not have the luxury of using an entire offseason to put his stamp on the offense.
• FACT:  Brady won more games in less games going 6-1 against stiffer competition while Dorsey led teams lost to Jets, Broncos, Patriots, Burrow-less Bengals, and over rated Jags.  And should have lost to lowly Giants and Bucs on both final plays of those games.  Meanwhile, Brady only loss was against the playoff bound Eagles who had just played in the SB the year before and it was a narrow loss with a good offensive showing.  

It is absolutely undeniable that Brady faced a harder stretch of games and conditions than Dorsey and the team grossly performed better and responded better to the direction of Brady over the offense.  

 

 

Also all wrong.  See above.  

 

So the Chargers with few notable defensive players were good then?  Bosa out.  We were on the underside of average in what they allowed per game in passing yards and total yards, and near the bottom in 1Ds generated, and nearly lost.  The Chargers were only marginally worse on offense against our top D, with Stick and no one worthy of note on offense otherwise.  We nearly lost that game.  

 

Well, OK.  We all have our opinions. 

 

We put up fewer yards than every team but the Jets vs. NE.  NE with Zappe outplayed us offensively.

 

The Miami game was Allen's worst game against Miami since our blowout win (35-0) in '21, and otherwise since his rookie season.  

 

Philly was massively overrated as others have pointed out. 

 

The Jets allowed similar yards and points to Miami a week in later, at home, and Even more to Cleveland several weeks after that.

 

Dallas was all Cook and D.  We have no idea how Allen would have played in that game has it running game not worked out.  

 

Point being, if it doesn't improve we're not going to win the division and there will be trouble.  

 

Excuses aren't going to pay the piper.  

 

Otherwise argue as you may, but 60.7% compl. with an 85.5 rating, if that's what we got on the season, would be problematic. 

 

How can anyone argue contrarily, that's ridiculous.  

 

Find a QB that finished the season with those two numbers that went to the playoffs much less won his division and a playoff game.  

 

As to they playoffs, that's where McD really shines.  He throws his hands in the air and "let's Allen be Allen."  It's hardly coaching.  If it were them our D would be on vacation once the playoffs started.  

 

Maybe he should be more hands-off this season.  

 

We'll see what happens.  Arguing about it now isn't going to change any of it.  But excuses aside, Allen's passing metrics has better not be where they were under Brady over the season or we're in trouble.  

 

There's a whole lot of blind faith being placed in Brady right now.  It could work out, but to assume that it will, particularly given our ongoing merry-go-round at OC, is hardly assured.  

 

 

[ChasBB]

On 5/29/2024 at 9:40 AM, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

He really reminds me of a shorter version of Andre Reed out there in terms of his overall route versatility—take a look at his highlights tape from last year and you’ll see what I mean—Allen finds him in a variety of different ways, and then often there is good YAC shown. So I expect more of the same, just higher output with Diggs gone. 
https://youtu.be/mPcLM0Zz1zQ?feature=shared

 

Eric Moulds compares Shakir to Marvin Harrison in one of the Embedded clips. ... "same build, identical height, slot receiver legs, tougher upper build, but Shakir just a little thicker/heavier" (paraphrasing)

[GASabresIUFan]

10 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Under Brady

 

244 passing yards/game

60.7% compl. %

1.4 TDs/game

1.0 INTs/game

1.6 Sacks/game

85.5 Rating

7.5 YPA

Hurried on 9.2% of attempts

Hit on 10.0% of attempts

1st-Down% 32.8% (includes TDs & 1st-Downs)

Average Depth of Target/Attempt - 9.1 Yards out

 

How much of the lower completion % was on Josh?  Diggs and Davis only caught 46 of 84 targets (54.8%) over those 7 weeks that Brady was interim OC.  The team also went 6-1 by spreading the ball around and better integrating the running game.  You also forgot Josh's 8 rushing TDs in the last 7 weeks vs 7 rushing TDs in the first 10 weeks.  

[MarlinTheMagician]

On 5/29/2024 at 9:17 AM, appoo said:

Great Question!

 

Shakir is the true inside/outside weapon in this offense. He’ll play a similar role thag Diggs played from 2020-2022, when he still had his deeper speed. 
 

I see him running 80% of his routes as short and intermediate, and often lining up as a z to Keon Coleman’s X, with Kincaid running the slot, and the other 20% the deeper seams, posts, etc

 

When we want to threaten to to take the lid off I think we bring in MVS to be an outside guy and shift Shakir inside.

 

whoel Khalil isn’t as talented as Diggs, I think he’ll do a lot of damage

Agree.  Shakir and Diggs, if I recall, have nearly identical height, weight, speed numbers.  Physically, he is kind of a Diggs clone.

[PBF81]

21 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

 

How much of the lower completion % was on Josh?  Diggs and Davis only caught 46 of 84 targets (54.8%) over those 7 weeks that Brady was interim OC.  The team also went 6-1 by spreading the ball around and better integrating the running game.  You also forgot Josh's 8 rushing TDs in the last 7 weeks vs 7 rushing TDs in the first 10 weeks.  

 

Great point if Josh is going to run the ball 200 times.  He was on pace for around 150 carries under Brady, a career high average.  

 

Again, find a QB that finished the season at 60.7% comp. % and posted an 85.5 Rating that made the playoffs much less won his division or won a playoff game.  

 

The rest is immaterial.  

 

It'll have to improve overall.  Many people see this.  

 

BTW, you inadvertantly impugn or coaching.  Two years ago we wanted Josh to run less.  No sooner had Brady taken over than the same coaching staff wanted him to run more.  

 

Presumably that doesn't really need any explanation.  😏

 

 

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Agree.  Shakir and Diggs, if I recall, have nearly identical height, weight, speed numbers.  Physically, he is kind of a Diggs clone.

 

Call me nuts, but IMO Shakir's capable of posting a 100+ catch 1,500 yard season.  

 

He's averaged 15.8 YPR her so far.  Granted, not as a #1 or 2 WR, but still.  Under Brady he averaged 18.2, a lot of that in two games but still. 

 

Diggs averaged 12.1 here.  

 

Maybe it's destiny that Shakir and his Mountain West QB form a historic tandem.  

 

It's all going to come down to whether or not the coaching staff optimize the offense.  Standing in the way is themselves.  What they're saying about this team now doesn't match Shakir or Allen reaching those numbers.  

 

Time will tell.  

 

A lot is expected when Allen is your QB.  To not deliver will cause problems.  

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

So the Chargers with few notable defensive players were good then?  Bosa out.  We were on the underside of average in what they allowed per game in passing yards and total yards, and near the bottom in 1Ds generated, and nearly lost.  The Chargers were only marginally worse on offense against our top D, with Stick and no one worthy of note on offense otherwise.  We nearly lost that game.  
 

 

I literally said Chargers NOT one of the top 5 defenses in those 7 games.  So what are you even talking about here.  

 

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, OK.  We all have our opinions. 

 

We put up fewer yards than every team but the Jets vs. NE.  NE with Zappe outplayed us offensively.

 

The Miami game was Allen's worst game against Miami since our blowout win (35-0) in '21, and otherwise since his rookie season.  

 

Philly was massively overrated as others have pointed out. 

 

The Jets allowed similar yards and points to Miami a week in later, at home, and Even more to Cleveland several weeks after that.

 

Dallas was all Cook and D.  We have no idea how Allen would have played in that game has it running game not worked out.  
 

 

Literally none of these opinions above have anything to do with the facts I provided nor refute them.

 

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Point being, if it doesn't improve we're not going to win the division and there will be trouble.  

 

Excuses aren't going to pay the piper.  

 

Otherwise argue as you may, but 60.7% compl. with an 85.5 rating, if that's what we got on the season, would be problematic. 

 

How can anyone argue contrarily, that's ridiculous.  

 

Find a QB that finished the season with those two numbers that went to the playoffs much less won his division and a playoff game.  
 

 

How about this.  Why don’t you go take out all your he easiest games and only count them he tougher sections of every WBs schedule and see if there numbers go up or down hen facing harder competition vs the easy competition .  
 

I mean Tua put up 70 on the Broncos who we lost to and we managed to only score 22 against the same team a few weeks later.  
 

You are comically delusional if you believe think we were a better offense under Dorsey than Brady.

 

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

As to they playoffs, that's where McD really shines.  He throws his hands in the air and "let's Allen be Allen."  It's hardly coaching.  If it were them our D would be on vacation once the playoffs started.  

 

Maybe he should be more hands-off this season.  

 

We'll see what happens.  Arguing about it now isn't going to change any of it.  But excuses aside, Allen's passing metrics has better not be where they were under Brady over the season or we're in trouble.  

 

There's a whole lot of blind faith being placed in Brady right now.  It could work out, but to assume that it will, particularly given our ongoing merry-go-round at OC, is hardly assured.  

 

 

 

Again, I’ll stick to the facts…feel free to just rant all you want outside those facts, to each their own.  
 

And for the record, neither or, or really anyone has said Brady has proved anything other than being the correct decision last year.  We don’t even know what his offense will be as last year you do realize he coached Dorsey’s offense.  You can’t install a new offense midseason.  But to pretend Brady was bad compared to Dorsey last season is utterly ridiculous unless you prefer losing over winning.

Edited May 31 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The team as a whole did and it was mostly the improvement in defense.  Forcing turnovers and stops at key moments.  Zappe just threw another pick to Douglas last night.  The biggest change Brady made was running the ball more and more effectively helped with time of possession increasing it about five minutes per game under Brady (34:38 from 29:50).  They simply played better complimentary football with Brady at the helm.  That unfortunately involved running Allen on more designed runs similar to what we saw at the end of 2021.  Brady has a tough task next season of breaking in at least three new WR's and finding a way to run an efficient/effect offense without all the designed QB runs.

So what you are saying is that Brady did a much better coaching job…therefore the offense responded better…and we won more games.  Seems that’s just further making my point that Brady and the offense were better during our hardest stretch of the season.

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

And for the record, neither or, or really anyone has said Brady has proved anything other than being the correct decision last year.  We don’t even know what his offense will be as last year you do realize he coached Dorsey’s offense.  You can’t install a new offense midseason.  But to pretend Brady was bad compared to Dorsey last season is utterly ridiculous unless you prefer losing over winning.

 

He was on the team assistant to Dorsey the entire time.  This implied notion that they woke him up after a hard weekend out drinking and the poor guy came in cold is disingenuous at best.  

 

At the end of the day he took the same crew, particularly Allen, and got less from him while having Allen's passing metrics plummet to levels getting dangerously close to 2019's.  

 

And if we're going to talk about disingenuous, he gets credit for us going 6-1 the last 7, almost exclusively here.  But if not for a defensive TD vs. NE and a STs TD vs. Miami, we don't win the division and likely don't even make the playoffs.  Then it's an entirely different discussion.  TBD if we're going to be honest.  LOL, can you even imagine ...   This place would have been apoplectic.  LOL  

 

 

[Putin]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Great point if Josh is going to run the ball 200 times.  He was on pace for around 150 carries under Brady, a career high average.  

 

Again, find a QB that finished the season at 60.7% comp. % and posted an 85.5 Rating that made the playoffs much less won his division or won a playoff game.  

 

The rest is immaterial.  

 

It'll have to improve overall.  Many people see this.  

 

BTW, you inadvertantly impugn or coaching.  Two years ago we wanted Josh to run less.  No sooner had Brady taken over than the same coaching staff wanted him to run more.  

 

Presumably that doesn't really need any explanation.  😏

 

 

we we’re a .500 football team and had to change a lot things to have any hope of getting in as a wild card , Josh running more was one of them 

[Putin]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

He was on the team assistant to Dorsey the entire time.  This implied notion that they woke him up after a hard weekend out drinking and the poor guy came in cold is disingenuous at best.  

 

At the end of the day he took the same crew, particularly Allen, and got less from him while having Allen's passing metrics plummet to levels getting dangerously close to 2019's.  

 

And if we're going to talk about disingenuous, he gets credit for us going 6-1 the last 7, almost exclusively here.  But if not for a defensive TD vs. NE and a STs TD vs. Miami, we don't win the division and likely don't even make the playoffs.  Then it's an entirely different discussion.  TBD if we're going to be honest.  LOL, can you even imagine ...   This place would have been apoplectic.  LOL  

 

 

What a bunch of nonsense , the Miami game we should have won by 3 scores !!!!
 Josh made some horrible decisions on his 2 INTs  , his pass Ty Johnson at the goal line , and let’s not forget the fumble , but please continue to blame Brady for that 

[ColoradoBills]

17 hours ago, Simon said:

 

This is likely to be complementary also as I think folks will be impressed with how well Curtis Samuel blocks.

He's not recklessly blowing people up but he's smart with his feet and typically gets effective leverage.

I think they're going to play a lot of games with this (and also end up leaving corners isolated and vulnerable against a bigger WR on the other side).

 

I'm curious to see if Shakir and Samuel (along with another WR) are bunched up.  With their quickness and blocking ability it could be something

that works well.

[PBF81]

34 minutes ago, Putin said:

we we’re a .500 football team and had to change a lot things to have any hope of getting in as a wild card , Josh running more was one of them 

 

Have you looked at the context of this exchange?  

 

Also, for a couple of seasons now the coaching staff themselves have stated that they wanted Allen to run less.  

 

Then Brady takes over and they want him to run more.  What's the obvious conclusion?  

 

 

24 minutes ago, Putin said:

What a bunch of nonsense , the Miami game we should have won by 3 scores !!!!
 Josh made some horrible decisions on his 2 INTs  , his pass Ty Johnson at the goal line , and let’s not forget the fumble , but please continue to blame Brady for that 

 

OK, and we should have lost against Zappe and the Pats who outplayed us.  We struggled to beat a Chargers team that was siht.  Seriously, look at the Chargers' roster for that game, and come back and tell us all how many games in a 17-game season we'd win if McD were the coach of that team.  What, two, three by accident.  

 

What's nonsense is that Brady was the difference.  

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

He was on the team assistant to Dorsey the entire time.  This implied notion that they woke him up after a hard weekend out drinking and the poor guy came in cold is disingenuous at best.  

 

At the end of the day he took the same crew, particularly Allen, and got less from him while having Allen's passing metrics plummet to levels getting dangerously close to 2019's.  

 

And if we're going to talk about disingenuous, he gets credit for us going 6-1 the last 7, almost exclusively here.  But if not for a defensive TD vs. NE and a STs TD vs. Miami, we don't win the division and likely don't even make the playoffs.  Then it's an entirely different discussion.  TBD if we're going to be honest.  LOL, can you even imagine ...   This place would have been apoplectic.  LOL  

 

 

 

6-1.  4 Playoff Teams defeated.  5 of those 7 games against top 10 defenses in yards allowed.  Bad weather.  Coaching from someone else's playbook.  Playoff pressure every game as we were in can't lose another game mode.  

 

But hey...you go right ahead and be mad about that...I choose to appreciate what was accomplished and appreciate that he came in and we found ways to win games.  There is no world where 5-5 is better than 6-1 except apparently yours...good luck with that.  

[PBF81]

40 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

6-1.  4 Playoff Teams defeated.  5 of those 7 games against top 10 defenses in yards allowed.  Bad weather.  Coaching from someone else's playbook.  Playoff pressure every game as we were in can't lose another game mode.  

 

But hey...you go right ahead and be mad about that...I choose to appreciate what was accomplished and appreciate that he came in and we found ways to win games.  There is no world where 5-5 is better than 6-1 except apparently yours...good luck with that.  

 

Mad, ... LOL  

 

Either way, changing the argument every time you react is hardly a way to discuss this.  Otherwise, getting emotional doesn't help.  

 

Let's wait and see what happens.  According to you things should go swimmingly, we all hope so.   

 

 

[GASabresIUFan]

The conclusion is that they wanted to win football games and having Josh run more helped win those games down the stretch. So did rushing Cook more and throwing more to Kincaid and Shakir. 

 

I don’t think we can fully extrapolate from what Brady the interim OC did to what Brady the OC is going to do.  Brady the OC has a much different group of weapons to work with including 4 new WRs in his top 5, including a 1st pick WR and a FA vet with sick speed, plus a new bruising RB (Davis) with good hands.  He also has a full off-season to build his plan vs trying to cobble together a winning formula on the fly with a weapon group designed for a different offense. Heck, we don’t even know who will be in the slot and whether one of the vets (Claypool or MVS) will even make the team.  

 

Honestly, what he managed to do last season, going 6-1 as the interim OC, was nothing more than astonishing.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Shakir is +40,000 to win Offensive Player of the Year.  Put down $100....you could name a boat.