How do you envision Khalil Shakir being utilized in this years offense?

[BADOLBILZ]

On 5/29/2024 at 7:59 AM, HoofHearted said:

Brady has said he wants to take advantage of each players individual skill sets within this offense. Couple that with the uptick in production we saw out of Shakir at the end of last season once Brady took over, and one could assume he’s primed to be a focal point in this offense (albeit not to the level that Diggs was). So what say you. How would you get the most out of Shakir’s skill set within this offense? (There are no wrong answers and I’ll give my opinions later as not to influence the responses).

 

 

How these individual WR targets will perform are all interesting micro-takes but the question as a whole is can this Joe Brady offense be better with these players without having to use Josh Allen as a battering ram again.    For all the hype about how well Shakir played down the stretch,   Josh Allen was not that good passing the ball during that time.   Probably his worst half season stretch since 2019, statistically.

Edited May 30 by BADOLBILZ

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

How these individual WR targets will perform are all interesting micro-takes but the question as a whole is can this Joe Brady offense be better with these players without having to use Josh Allen as a battering ram again.    For all the hype about how well Shakir played down the stretch,   Josh Allen was not that good passing the ball during that time.   Probably his worst half season stretch since 2019, statistically.

 

You think the level of competition may have had something to do with that given Brady took over during the toughest part of our schedule?  

 

The lack of context people consider when they make these statements about the numbers under Brady just surprises me.  I mean the eyeball test alone could see the offense was better by a long shot over this stretch of games compared to the first 10 weeks.  But "numbers" are also impacted by the fact we played the following under Brady's 7 regular season games:

 

In 7 games Bills Played:  Five out of the 7 games were against top 10 defenses (including 3 in the top 5) and 4 of the 7 games were against playoff teams.

 

The only teams not in the top 10 in defense ere Eagles (a playoff team and tough opponent) and the Chargers (a team that was fired up being first game with new coach after firing Staley).  

 

So...anyone wanting to remove all context and go back and look at the offense or Allens "numbers" only during:  1 - The toughest part of a seasons schedule vs entire previous seasons and 2 - The back end of the season in worse weather than the first 10 games...and then compare those numbers to whole seasons that include the easier batches of games (and easier overall schedules in past seasons) with better weather too is just a poor way to analyze the numbers and delivers inaccurate conclusions about said numbers.  

 

To say it was maybe his worst on that small sample size...a sample where we rose from the ashes and won 6 out of 7 of those games with a team that had been losing to teams like Jets, Denver, Pats, Burrow-less Bengals, and a not very good Jags team (with should be losses to Giants and Bucs too)...is just looking at it completely wrong IMHO.

 

And further context:  Not only was it the hardest portion of our schedule and during the part of the year with worse weather conditions...but there is also the fact that Brady was having to coach out of another coordinators playbook and still find ways to adjust it and doing so on the fly given he took over after 10 games to boot.  

 

Yet...Brady led offense with Allen went 6-1...Division Champs...#2 seed after this team was being declared dead in week 10 at 5-5 after losing to a bad Broncos team that gave up 70 points in a single game last year.

Edited May 30 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

How these individual WR targets will perform are all interesting micro-takes but the question as a whole is can this Joe Brady offense be better with these players without having to use Josh Allen as a battering ram again.    For all the hype about how well Shakir played down the stretch,   Josh Allen was not that good passing the ball during that time.   Probably his worst half season stretch since 2019, statistically.

 

I thought it was Josh's worst season as a passer since 2019, period. I think Josh Allen has to be better in 2024 than he was in 2023 for the Bills to win the division again. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought it was Josh's worst season as a passer since 2019, period. I think Josh Allen has to be better in 2024 than he was in 2023 for the Bills to win the division again. 

 

It was...but I think that had a lot to do with instability and struggles at OC.  Even when Brady took over, he still had to work out of Dorseys offense, which is why I think he leaned so much on the run game as well, to try and just stabilize things given he couldn't make sweeping changes midseason.  

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

It was...but I think that had a lot to do with instability and struggles at OC.  Even when Brady took over, he still had to work out of Dorseys offense, which is why I think he leaned so much on the run game as well, to try and just stabilize things given he couldn't make sweeping changes midseason.  

 

I don't think that helped. But it was mainly on Josh IMO. He made too many bad decisions and threw too many poor balls. The good news is he seemed to snap out of it a little bit down the stretch but we need a more consistent Josh Allen. Because when he is on - I go back to that Miami home game - he is simply unstoppable. The Bills need him to be on more consistently in 2024. 

[DrMaxPower]

I do not think he's the 'slot only' guy a lot of people peg him as.

 

I think offences are gradually moving away from the 'prototypes'. Teams are finally starting to use motion to it's potential. That, combined with bunch formations can get different styles of receivers a free release.

 

I think he winds up being the 2nd leading receiver behind Kincaid. 800+ yards.

[HoofHearted]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

@HoofHearted you never gave your own response to this...said you were going to later, but just reminding you that you still haven't as the next QOD has arrived   Im curious to your thoughts on this too

Yeah, sorry. Got caught without power for a while with these storms down here in Texas. Was lucky my QOD was able to go through on my phone 🤣. Shakir reminds me a lot of Hines Ward. Not the most physically gifted dude, but someone who plays with reckless abandon on every single play. Khalil doesn’t seem to care what he’s being asked to do - he doing it fast and physical. His blocking within the box and on the perimeter are weapons.

 

As far as his role in our offense, I think it’ll be multifaceted. He has the ability to play both outside and inside as well as in a slot or wing role as we saw last year. I think he short area quickness plays well to the perimeter pass game we saw last year, but he’s also probably our best perimeter blocker so I’d expect to see him blocking for Samuel on these more often than not.

 

From his interview the other day it sure sounds like Deep Choice is still going to be a focal point of the offense as he was talking about running those “collector” routes to pull coverage in order to open things up underneath for others. I’d imagine they’d run both DC1 and DC2 like they did in the past.

 

What really intrigues me though is his ability to play within the box. There were multiple times last year we put Khalil in a wing or “nasty” split and ran a variation of zone insert. What makes this so intriguing to me is that we can do this with 11p but show 12 or 13p looks out of it. Essentially we’re forcing teams to play with a light box and scheming plays up that are forcing opposing teams corners to make tackles within the box. It was very effective last year, and is something Brady did during his time at LSU with his run game there.

 

Overall I think he’s most natural in a slot role where he can run all of the choice menu Beasley did while also being a key factor in the run game from a blocking perspective.

 

Sorry all for such a late response!

[Simon]

14 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

but he’s also probably our best perimeter blocker so I’d expect to see him blocking for Samuel on these more often than not.

 

This is likely to be complementary also as I think folks will be impressed with how well Curtis Samuel blocks.

He's not recklessly blowing people up but he's smart with his feet and typically gets effective leverage.

I think they're going to play a lot of games with this (and also end up leaving corners isolated and vulnerable against a bigger WR on the other side).

[Beck Water]

31 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Yeah, sorry. Got caught without power for a while with these storms down here in Texas. Was lucky my QOD was able to go through on my phone 🤣. Shakir reminds me a lot of Hines Ward. Not the most physically gifted dude, but someone who plays with reckless abandon on every single play. Khalil doesn’t seem to care what he’s being asked to do - he doing it fast and physical. His blocking within the box and on the perimeter are weapons.

 

As far as his role in our offense, I think it’ll be multifaceted. He has the ability to play both outside and inside as well as in a slot or wing role as we saw last year. I think he short area quickness plays well to the perimeter pass game we saw last year, but he’s also probably our best perimeter blocker so I’d expect to see him blocking for Samuel on these more often than not.

 

From his interview the other day it sure sounds like Deep Choice is still going to be a focal point of the offense as he was talking about running those “collector” routes to pull coverage in order to open things up underneath for others. I’d imagine they’d run both DC1 and DC2 like they did in the past.

 

What really intrigues me though is his ability to play within the box. There were multiple times last year we put Khalil in a wing or “nasty” split and ran a variation of zone insert. What makes this so intriguing to me is that we can do this with 11p but show 12 or 13p looks out of it. Essentially we’re forcing teams to play with a light box and scheming plays up that are forcing opposing teams corners to make tackles within the box. It was very effective last year, and is something Brady did during his time at LSU with his run game there.

 

Overall I think he’s most natural in a slot role where he can run all of the choice menu Beasley did while also being a key factor in the run game from a blocking perspective.

 

Sorry all for such a late response!

 

Hope you and all your family are safe (1st priority) and property relatively unscathed (2nd priority).

 

Can you say more about Deep Choice, what it is and how the Bills were using it last year?  

 

Also Zone Insert?

 

Some of us may know both when we see them, but not by those names.

 

I think Samuel is also a strong and capable blocker, but it's a testament to Shakir that you see him as our best perimeter blocker now because it shows he really worked at it.   As far as Beasley's blocking, the best I can say for that is "he tried"

 

Great question by the way

 

 

Edited May 30 by Beck Water

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think that helped. But it was mainly on Josh IMO. He made too many bad decisions and threw too many poor balls. The good news is he seemed to snap out of it a little bit down the stretch but we need a more consistent Josh Allen. Because when he is on - I go back to that Miami home game - he is simply unstoppable. The Bills need him to be on more consistently in 2024. 

 

 

Yeah but not having answers at receiver were a big factor as well.   He threw 6 interceptions toward Gabe Davis on 81 targets.   That's brutal.   Sometimes bad decisions and bad options are the same thing.   As the weapons around him have declined the need for him to make better decisions and have more command of his throws has increased.   I'm not sure it's in him to be that point guard.    As I've said,  the biggest play of the season was that second and 9 incompletion to Shakir and he stared him down the whole way.   Tom Brady wins ZERO SB's with Allen's eyes and touch.   And I am not holding my breath for Allen to ever go all-in on being the best he can be like a Drew Brees or Peyton Manning.   The thing those guys and Brady have in common is that they weren't incredibly gifted athletes.   They had to play at a remarkably efficient level to be good..........so taking it to the next level was a road they were already on anyway.   Not the case with JA17.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

10 hours ago, Mat68 said:

I don't see why Samuel and Shakir both cant be on the field. Both about 6ft 190.  Not small guys.  Brown and Beasley both played together and both were smaller than either.  Besides Coleman, I dont think you will see any WR with a set position.  Based off matchup and player packages you will see them line up everywhere.  As Coleman gets more comfortable you will see him line up everywhere too.  Production wise I think you will see Shakir pace the room in catches and yards.  If any wr breaks 1,000 yards I would bet it is him. 

I am in agreement with the bolded.

 

That said, I’m not sure you see my point in that Shakir/samuel won’t be on the field together, as I was solely discussing 12 personnel.
 

Your point about Beasley and Brown playing on the field at the same time makes me think you are referencing them in 11 personnel (which they lead the league in back in the day…they really didn’t run much 12). Maybe you’re flat out disagreeing with me which is fine; but incase I was unclear, I mean specifically in a particular personnel grouping….depending on how much they utilize two tight ends, there is really only room for 2 WRs on the field. I believe Coleman will often be one of them. His build, skill set, and stengths are much different than the other two. Pairing this with his draft investment, and the history in the way they’ve used Davis in that role, I imagine he will get a ton of PT. 
 

It’s certainly possible you could see 12 with Cook, Kincaid, Knox, Samuel, Shakir. It just isn’t my vision for how they’ll look in this personnel because Samuel/shakir has similar builds and strengths. 

41 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah but not having answers at receiver were a big factor as well.   He threw 6 interceptions toward Gabe Davis on 81 targets.   That's brutal.   Sometimes bad decisions and bad options are the same thing.   As the weapons around him have declined the need for him to make better decisions and have more command of his throws has increased.   I'm not sure it's in him to be that point guard.    As I've said,  the biggest play of the season was that second and 9 incompletion to Shakir and he stared him down the whole way.   Tom Brady wins ZERO SB's with Allen's eyes and touch.   And I am not holding my breath for Allen to ever go all-in on being the best he can be like a Drew Brees or Peyton Manning.   The thing those guys and Brady have in common is that they weren't incredibly gifted athletes.   They had to play at a remarkably efficient level to be good..........so taking it to the next level was a road they were already on anyway.   Not the case with JA17.

Certainly

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

Yeah, sorry. Got caught without power for a while with these storms down here in Texas. Was lucky my QOD was able to go through on my phone 🤣. Shakir reminds me a lot of Hines Ward. Not the most physically gifted dude, but someone who plays with reckless abandon on every single play. Khalil doesn’t seem to care what he’s being asked to do - he doing it fast and physical. His blocking within the box and on the perimeter are weapons.

 

As far as his role in our offense, I think it’ll be multifaceted. He has the ability to play both outside and inside as well as in a slot or wing role as we saw last year. I think he short area quickness plays well to the perimeter pass game we saw last year, but he’s also probably our best perimeter blocker so I’d expect to see him blocking for Samuel on these more often than not.

 

From his interview the other day it sure sounds like Deep Choice is still going to be a focal point of the offense as he was talking about running those “collector” routes to pull coverage in order to open things up underneath for others. I’d imagine they’d run both DC1 and DC2 like they did in the past.

 

What really intrigues me though is his ability to play within the box. There were multiple times last year we put Khalil in a wing or “nasty” split and ran a variation of zone insert. What makes this so intriguing to me is that we can do this with 11p but show 12 or 13p looks out of it. Essentially we’re forcing teams to play with a light box and scheming plays up that are forcing opposing teams corners to make tackles within the box. It was very effective last year, and is something Brady did during his time at LSU with his run game there.

 

Overall I think he’s most natural in a slot role where he can run all of the choice menu Beasley did while also being a key factor in the run game from a blocking perspective.

 

Sorry all for such a late response!

 

Late...but worth it  

 

This was an excellent response and honestly mostly how I feel about him too with an even higher level of detail, so really enjoyed this.  I love the Ward comparison too, who was one of my all time favorite non-Bills WR's.  I loved how Hines played the game and his character was impeccable, so maybe thats why I am so high on Shakir.  

 

[3rdand12]

On 5/29/2024 at 7:59 AM, HoofHearted said:

Brady has said he wants to take advantage of each players individual skill sets within this offense. Couple that with the uptick in production we saw out of Shakir at the end of last season once Brady took over, and one could assume he’s primed to be a focal point in this offense (albeit not to the level that Diggs was). So what say you. How would you get the most out of Shakir’s skill set within this offense? (There are no wrong answers and I’ll give my opinions later as not to influence the responses).

Knowing already I sound goofy

Depends on what they see from the new guys. yes I am hedging my bets here !
 But Shakir might be all over the place honestly

as mentioned he has great sight lines for YAC

 that will only improve with Josh leading him with those crossers and inside outs

[3rdand12]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:34 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'd prefer he was used as Beasley was in 2020. That's about 80 receptions for almost 1000 yards. The perfect chain mover underneath. That would mean his target volume would jump quite a bit but his YPC would drop running more underneath routes.  

 

Yes he can play outside but there are others than can play outside. 

 

I have a tendency to want to emulate Tom Brady and Pats offense. That means a great TE Gronk (Kincaid and Knox in the aggregate) and a weapon in the slot - Edelman and Welker (Shakir).  With Bills run game and a couple outside threats, this offense should be able to run so many different formations and plays with the same personel. Should keep defenses guessing.  

You said patriots , but i kept reading anyways

 but i bolded why i responded

so please expand text ^

 

Edited May 31 by 3rdand12

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You think the level of competition may have had something to do with that given Brady took over during the toughest part of our schedule?  

 

The lack of context people consider when they make these statements about the numbers under Brady just surprises me.  I mean the eyeball test alone could see the offense was better by a long shot over this stretch of games compared to the first 10 weeks.  But "numbers" are also impacted by the fact we played the following under Brady's 7 regular season games:

 

In 7 games Bills Played:  Five out of the 7 games were against top 10 defenses (including 3 in the top 5) and 4 of the 7 games were against playoff teams.

 

 

Say what?  

 

To start, the Jets, which are one of two impressive wins under Brady, were absolutely atrocious their last 8 games posting the equivalent of a 22nd ranking over their last 8 games.  Just look at their schedule.  It was hardly against the top Ds.  They became more and more hapless as the season progressed.  

 

Philly ranked 30th in D;  

The Chargers, NE, and Miami finished the season ranked 24th, 15th, and 22nd respectively.  

 

The only two Ds that we played that were worth a siht were Dallas and KC.   Our offensive game against KC was pretty average for us by our standards, slightly above-average by KC D standards.  Our game against Dallas was great, but there was obviously something wrong with Dallas which came in flat after having played a SNF game in primetime vs. the Eagles against which they were fighting for the division.  

 

So it's false that we had some sort of daunting or even above-average difficulty defensive schedule in Brady's 7 RS games.  

 

More to come ...  

 

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought it was Josh's worst season as a passer since 2019, period. I think Josh Allen has to be better in 2024 than he was in 2023 for the Bills to win the division again. 

 

And his metrics plummeted under Brady.  I've posted them already,  To validate your post, his metrics weren't significant better under Brady, when extrapolated to a full season from the 7 RS game, than they were in 2019.  

 

That's what concerns me.  Who knows what we'll get here, but the short high-percentage game is hardly Allen's forte.  It may be for the group of WRs we have, but Allen's the one slinging, not Samuel, Coleman, or anyone else.  

 

We also have a lot of overlap in our WR capabilities and strengths.  

 

It's obviously more complex than that, but to summarize extremely generally.  

 

 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Knowing already I sound goofy

Depends on what they see from the new guys. yes I am hedging my bets here !
 But Shakir might be all over the place honestly

as mentioned he has great sight lines for YAC

 that will only improve with Josh leading him with those crossers and inside outs

 

It was primarily because of two games, but Shakir averaged 18.2 YPR under Brady, which had it been sustained over the entire season he'd have been ranked #1 in YPR.  

 

And with the deep throws, 83.3% catch%, which is sick.  

 

It's impossible to know how things are going to shake out without Diggs & Davis on the field.  I'm not buying the "Diggs lost a step" (literally overnight) stuff either.  Davis is Davis, he is what he is.  

 

There are a lot of questions going into this season and Brady had better hit some sort of steady-state quickly or it could cost us.  He won't have half a season to figure things out.  It's concerning given his lack of experience.  

 

Otherwise, here are the players that caught TD passes in Brady's 7 RS games:  

 

Jets:  Cook, Ty Johnson, Shakir 

Philly:  Diggs, Davis 

KC:  Cook 

Dallas:  Cook 

Chargers:  Davis 

NE:  none 

Miami:  Sherfield, Knox  

 

Cook (3), Davis (2), Diggs (1), Shakir (1), Knox (1), Johnson (1), Sherfield (1)  

 

 

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think that helped. But it was mainly on Josh IMO. He made too many bad decisions and threw too many poor balls. The good news is he seemed to snap out of it a little bit down the stretch but we need a more consistent Josh Allen. Because when he is on - I go back to that Miami home game - he is simply unstoppable. The Bills need him to be on more consistently in 2024. 

 

Reasons aside, ... to your point ... 

 

Here are his pre & post Brady metrics:

 

Pre-Brady (Dorsey)

 

260 passing yards/game

70.3% compl. %

1.9 TDs/game

1.1 INTs/game

1.3 Sacks/game

96.6 Rating

7.4 YPA

Hurried on 8.6% of attempts

Hit on 8.0% of attempts

1st-Down% 33.7% (includes TDs & 1st-Downs)

Average Depth of Target/Attempt - 8.4 Yards out

 

______________________________

 

Under Brady

 

244 passing yards/game

60.7% compl. %

1.4 TDs/game

1.0 INTs/game

1.6 Sacks/game

85.5 Rating

7.5 YPA

Hurried on 9.2% of attempts

Hit on 10.0% of attempts

1st-Down% 32.8% (includes TDs & 1st-Downs)

Average Depth of Target/Attempt - 9.1 Yards out

 

So if we analyze that data against the narrative that he improved under Brady, and that the passing game turned shorter, but that's obviously not the case. The depth of target alone tells us clearly that that's false. As to efficiency metrics, Allen obviously got notably worse in Brady's system. In fact, let's assume that Allen's metrics in Brady's system held for an entire 17-game season, and since they are an average of Brady's 7 regular season games as such. Allen would finish with the following on the season with rankings by this past season in parentheses:

 

4,148 Yards (8th)

24 TDs (tied for 11th)

17 INTs (

60.7% Compl. % (30th)

13th in 1st-Down %

85.5 Rating (23rd)

 

That's hardly improvement.  

 

To your point, those numbers are only marginally better than his 2019 numbers of 20 TDs and 9 INTS (half), yet a mere 4 more TDs on an additional 1,000+ passing yards.  It's also not as if the Ds we faced were tough outside of KC & Dallas, the latter of which was flat coming into Buffalo following a primetime SNF game vs. Philly which essentially cemented the divison for Dallas. 

 

People dismiss his average play with all kinds of narrative, but those are the numbers under Brady's system. Sure, he'll tweak it, but also sure, now without a single player on the team that's proven to command double-coverage downfield, and with half of Allen's TD and yardage recipients now gone from the team, and remarkably with us replacing Davis with someone absurdly similar.  

 

Hopefully Shakir can be that downfield receiver to draw deep.  It'd be great to see him at the top of the league in Yards and YPR.  ... just in time to give him leverage to renegotiate going into his fourth of four years.  LOL  

 

There's potential, but it doesn't play to Allen's forte` and the inexperienced Brady's going to have to be at the top of an OC's game to get it all to work efficiently.  Posting numbers only marginally better than Allen's 2019 numbers will turn out a vocal fanbase on the issue.  

 

 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Reasons aside, ... to your point ... 

 

Here are his pre & post Brady metrics:

 

Pre-Brady (Dorsey)

 

260 passing yards/game

70.3% compl. %

1.9 TDs/game

1.1 INTs/game

1.3 Sacks/game

96.6 Rating

7.4 YPA

Hurried on 8.6% of attempts

Hit on 8.0% of attempts

1st-Down% 33.7% (includes TDs & 1st-Downs)

Average Depth of Target/Attempt - 8.4 Yards out

 

______________________________

 

Under Brady

 

244 passing yards/game

60.7% compl. %

1.4 TDs/game

1.0 INTs/game

1.6 Sacks/game

85.5 Rating

7.5 YPA

Hurried on 9.2% of attempts

Hit on 10.0% of attempts

1st-Down% 32.8% (includes TDs & 1st-Downs)

Average Depth of Target/Attempt - 9.1 Yards out

 

So if we analyze that data against the narrative that he improved under Brady, and that the passing game turned shorter, but that's obviously not the case. The depth of target alone tells us clearly that that's false. As to efficiency metrics, Allen obviously got notably worse in Brady's system. In fact, let's assume that Allen's metrics in Brady's system held for an entire 17-game season, and since they are an average of Brady's 7 regular season games as such. Allen would finish with the following on the season with rankings by this past season in parentheses:

 

4,148 Yards (8th)

24 TDs (tied for 11th)

17 INTs (

60.7% Compl. % (30th)

13th in 1st-Down %

85.5 Rating (23rd)

 

That's hardly improvement.  

 

To your point, those numbers are only marginally better than his 2019 numbers of 20 TDs and 9 INTS (half), yet a mere 4 more TDs on an additional 1,000+ passing yards.  It's also not as if the Ds we faced were tough outside of KC & Dallas, the latter of which was flat coming into Buffalo following a primetime SNF game vs. Philly which essentially cemented the divison for Dallas. 

 

People dismiss his average play with all kinds of narrative, but those are the numbers under Brady's system. Sure, he'll tweak it, but also sure, now without a single player on the team that's proven to command double-coverage downfield, and with half of Allen's TD and yardage recipients now gone from the team, and remarkably with us replacing Davis with someone absurdly similar.  

 

Hopefully Shakir can be that downfield receiver to draw deep.  It'd be great to see him at the top of the league in Yards and YPR.  ... just in time to give him leverage to renegotiate going into his fourth of four years.  LOL  

 

There's potential, but it doesn't play to Allen's forte` and the inexperienced Brady's going to have to be at the top of an OC's game to get it all to work efficiently.  Posting numbers only marginally better than Allen's 2019 numbers will turn out a vocal fanbase on the issue.  

 

 

Interesting numbers but I wish you'd include the two playoff games for a better sample size.  What I do find relevant is our WR's had 21 drops in 9 games (playoffs included) under Brady and only 12 drops on in 10 games under Dorsey.  That took away some first downs, big plays, and TD's which drives all those metrics up. 

 

For example, if you go by PFF's metrics for adjusted completion percentage (the % of aimed passes thrown on target) he was at 79.1% the 10 games under Dorsey and 74.3% the 9 games under Brady last year.  The 74.3% under Brady was more in line with his combined season/postseason stats in 2021 (74.2%) and 2022 (74.8%).  He definitely slipped a little passing wise from Dorsey to Brady but not as much as those numbers suggest.  Certainly not as bad as his 2018 (64.7%) or 2019 season (70.6%).

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Say what?  

 

To start, the Jets, which are one of two impressive wins under Brady, were absolutely atrocious their last 8 games posting the equivalent of a 22nd ranking over their last 8 games.  Just look at their schedule.  It was hardly against the top Ds.  They became more and more hapless as the season progressed.  

 

Philly ranked 30th in D;  

The Chargers, NE, and Miami finished the season ranked 24th, 15th, and 22nd respectively.  

 

Wrong...the discussion was about the reduction in yards for Allen under Brady.  

• FACT:  5 of the 7 teams the Bills faced were top 10 defenses on yards allowed per game.  
• FACT:  4 of the 7 teams were playoffs teams.
• FACT:  The SOS under Brady was significantly harder in the 7 games and they collectively had a winning record of 61-58 for a .512%.  Under Dorsey, the collective record was a losing record of 75-95 for a .441%.  
• FACT:  Weather was worse in outdoor games during the back end of the season compared to the front end of the season.  
• FACT:  Brady had to take over during the season and modify and adjust the offense within the confines of someone else's playbook and did not have the luxury of using an entire offseason to put his stamp on the offense.
• FACT:  Brady won more games in less games going 6-1 against stiffer competition while Dorsey led teams lost to Jets, Broncos, Patriots, Burrow-less Bengals, and over rated Jags.  And should have lost to lowly Giants and Bucs on both final plays of those games.  Meanwhile, Brady only loss was against the playoff bound Eagles who had just played in the SB the year before and it was a narrow loss with a good offensive showing.  

It is absolutely undeniable that Brady faced a harder stretch of games and conditions than Dorsey and the team grossly performed better and responded better to the direction of Brady over the offense.  

 

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

The only two Ds that we played that were worth a siht were Dallas and KC.   Our offensive game against KC was pretty average for us by our standards, slightly above-average by KC D standards.  Our game against Dallas was great, but there was obviously something wrong with Dallas which came in flat after having played a SNF game in primetime vs. the Eagles against which they were fighting for the division.  

 

So it's false that we had some sort of daunting or even above-average difficulty defensive schedule in Brady's 7 RS games.  

 

More to come ...  

 

 

Also all wrong.  See above.  

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It's absolutely undeniable that Brady faced a harder stretch of games and conditions than Dorsey and the team grossly performed better and responded better to the direction of Brady over the offense.  

The team as a whole did and it was mostly the improvement in defense.  Forcing turnovers and stops at key moments.  Zappe just threw another pick to Douglas last night.  The biggest change Brady made was running the ball more and more effectively helped with time of possession increasing it about five minutes per game under Brady (34:38 from 29:50).  They simply played better complimentary football with Brady at the helm.  That unfortunately involved running Allen on more designed runs similar to what we saw at the end of 2021.  Brady has a tough task next season of breaking in at least three new WR's and finding a way to run an efficient/effect offense without all the designed QB runs.