Kaiir Elam discussing the last 2 years & his struggles...

[Buff the Cat]

32 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think he’s saying his game is heavily reliant on his size, strength, physicality and athleticism. That’s his sweet spot. Whereas some of those guys are reliant on intuition, details, etc. 

 

I don’t think it’s a maturity or notebook issue. I think he’s a smart guy. I think he knows the playbook and works hard. He’s just struggled with application. 

Yeah I agree, that is the other part of playing "small." Not being Godzilla and mauling the WR, but rather "small" and unnoticeable to the ref (mainly) and the QB. This also applies to zone as well, such as get into your zone and play there, don't try to be big and feel you have to cover the whole field.

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, stosh64 said:

Who actually pays 'thad' to write about the Bills?  The Pats***?

 

Thad has some TV segments with a guy who seems to know ball.  Thad should step back and let that guy do the talking.

[Special K]

I wasn't a fan of the pick at the time, but I'm still rooting for him to turn it around.

 

He's still young, and the talent is there, so there is no reason yet to think he can't put all of the pieces together and become a consistent contributor on this D.

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, BigDingus said:

He says "it's not like I was cutting corners, it's not like I wasn't listening, wasn't taking notes, wasn't preparing the right way... just that it allowed me to learn though..."

 

What does that even mean? He's clearly acknowledging he's fallen short, but if it was none of those things that held him back & he was doing all those things right, how did he learn anything from that?

 

I don't really understand your question here.  What do you mean "how did he learn anything from that?"...He literally said he has learned from his struggles, from listening, taking notes, preparing the right way.  That is the best way to learn, by doing all the right things.  Year 1 it was no secret that he needed to work on zone coverage to fit in here.  Year 2, its not like he got beat out by a scrub, Benford had an excellent camp and preseason and just won the job being more ready to play our style of defense.  Elam then also battled some injuries as well.

 

But along the way over those 2 years, Elam got some spots to start thanks to injuries and made some very promising plays including big interceptions in big moments.  

 

10 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I know he's trying to give off a positive attitude & show he's got a positive mindset, but it makes me think "well then why is a 1st round talent struggling to fight for a backup role if they're already listening, taking notes, preparing the right way, etc.?"

 

There is so much more to it than just taking notes and listening.  Not sure if you ever played competitive sports, but so much of what a CB does relies on muscle memory and instincts.  You are asking this kid to change all of that...all the muscle memory and instincts in his style of play to fit better into how they want to play him in this defense.  That is no small task, and those things a probably most important for a CB than any other position in the NFL because they are always playing a major disadvantage on every snap as they don't know where the WR or play is going and need to have instant reflex and reactions to make sure they can be in the right place to defend the play at the right moment...and do so without violating all the rules that are heavily skewed to protect the offense, the QB, and the WR.  

 

10 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

The idea that McDermott doesn't play rookies was always a silly excuse & definitely not true, but on the other hand he's being kept around for a reason. There's obviously still potential that the coaching staff sees, and he has had some clutch moments for us.

 

Its not a silly excuse and it definitely has truth to it...McD, like any coaching staff, prefers to not force a rookie in there if its not necessary and there are guys ahead of him more ready to play.  He isn't afraid to start a rookie, but if he doesn't have to he won't rush them in there.  Which is why I am not sold Bishop starts week 1 at Safety because he has vets capable of starting in Edwards and Rapp, not to mention Hyde might play again this year here still.  So he doesn't need to put Bishop out there unless Bishop just flat out and convincingly wins one of the jobs.  

 

There is one thing I know and that is that this staff can find and coach defensive backs and get them playing at their best.  Elam was different though as his style was different than what we run here, but they felt he had the talent and commitment to get to where they needed him to be which is why they took him and still have him here.  

 

And like you said and I also mentioned above, he has flashed potential when he got opportunities on the field.  And I have no doubt he will very much be in a camp battle again with Benford to start opposite Rasul.  But what I love about Beane and McD is they don't care at all about draft pick status when it comes to who is on the field to play.  Some GM's are more worried about how it looks and demand the high pick play...here, its all about legit competition and aren't afraid to play a guy who was a lower pick over even a first round pick if they feel it makes the team better.  

 

10 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

Hoping at the end of the year someone can quote this thread & say "Hahaha you were wrong!" but I've all but checked out on expecting anything from Elam.

 

I get why you have checked out, but I personally have not written him off and I am actually quite excited to see how he battles with Benford this year.  But nothing will be handed to hims, so if he can't find himself a role this year, then I think he probably gets traded this offseason...we are probably too thin to trade him before then I suspect.  

Edited May 29 by Alphadawg7

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Buff the Cat said:

Yeah I agree, that is the other part of playing "small." Not being Godzilla and mauling the WR, but rather "small" and unnoticeable to the ref (mainly) and the QB. This also applies to zone as well, such as get into your zone and play there, don't try to be big and feel you have to cover the whole field.

 

Right, he has to learn to run with rather than impact (literally and figuratively) the WR. 

I like Elam. I think he is a good dude and a good corner. I hope he can figure it out in Buffalo. 

Edited May 29 by Mango

[GerstAusGosheim]

Elam looked worse under Sean as the DC. The result? John Butler gets fired. LOL.

[ProcessTruster]

4 hours ago, Rigotz said:

I'm really pulling for the kid. Would be huge for him and the Bills if he finds his way.

 

I'm also a huge Brandon Beane fan.

 

Both being said, I can't understand why we would trade up in the first round to take a guy who doesn't know Zone and struggles in space. We have the tremendous benefit of having a consistent, established defensive scheme for 7 years. We didn't we just pick a guy who actually fits it?

yeah huge Beane fan here as well and agree, BB kind of overdrafted "traits" on this one it appears

[MiracleAtRich1393]

4 hours ago, Rigotz said:

I'm really pulling for the kid. Would be huge for him and the Bills if he finds his way.

 

I'm also a huge Brandon Beane fan.

 

Both being said, I can't understand why we would trade up in the first round to take a guy who doesn't know Zone and struggles in space. We have the tremendous benefit of having a consistent, established defensive scheme for 7 years. We didn't we just pick a guy who actually fits it?

He did pick a great fit for the system! Christian Benford, five rounds later 😆

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Safety.  I have inside information (maybe it is public and I don't know it), that they really want to look at him as a safety.  That might help the grabbiness at the top of routes - seeing the play unfold and running to the catch point rather than trying to mirror sometimes.  Others on here have posted he would be terrible at safety, but the Bills believe there is at least some chance those posters are wrong.

 

I'd be happy for Elam to succeed and if the Bills think he can succeed as a safety, more power to him.

 

If there's one thing a safety needs to be, though, it's a solid open field tackler and willing to come in and thump against the run.

 

Have you seen those traits in Elam?  Cuz I haven't...and his NFL draft profile (Lance Zierlein) includes:

"Doesn't play to his size in run support duties.  Inconsistent coming to balance as open-field tackler.".  Not that Zierlein is 100% of course but often I come back to the draft profiles he writes and nod, a few years down the line.

 

Of course I could be wrong, and actually, I'd be happy to be wrong.
 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

His college film had a ton of grabbing at the top of routes. That tells me that he doesn’t have the agility to stay with quick WRs. I think it’s that rather than a loss of focus, though a lack of confidence could contribute. I don’t know that this is fixable. The situation is made worse by his poor feel for zone so we can’t hide him there. He feels like the CB version of a talented WR who doesn’t run his routes correctly or understand his route options. That all said, I think the Bills’ plan is to try to coach him up and get him on the field to see if he’s salvageable. 

 

Well....I could be wrong....but I think the grabbing at the top of routes has to do with technique, not intrinsic physical abilities like agility.  +

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'd be happy for Elam to succeed and if the Bills think he can succeed as a safety, more power to him.

 

If there's one thing a safety needs to be, though, it's a solid open field tackler and willing to come in and thump against the run.

 

Have you seen those traits in Elam?  Cuz I haven't...and his NFL draft profile (Lance Zierlein) includes:

"Doesn't play to his size in run support duties.  Inconsistent coming to balance as open-field tackler.".  Not that Zierlein is 100% of course but often I come back to the draft profiles he writes and nod, a few years down the line.

 

Of course I could be wrong, and actually, I'd be happy to be wrong.
 

He just doesn't have the instincts in zone to be a safety imo 

 

It's not like aaron Williams, who , was a tremendous football player... Had instincts and skill... Good technique... He just didn't have the pure speed to play as a press man corner which we tried starting him out as 

 

I always thought he was an nfl safety 

 

I don't think Elam plays with enough discipline to be an NFL safety and I wouldn't want him being the last line of defense tackling 

[27yanks]

Safety is a good place to put him. Has to learn to play downhill and stick the receivers

[Billl]

21 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Well....I could be wrong....but I think the grabbing at the top of routes has to do with technique, not intrinsic physical abilities like agility.  +

He always seems to be trying to guess the routes rather than play the receiver. As a result, he gets off balance easily when he guesses wrong. It’s also why he tends to grab. Every once in a while he guesses correctly and runs into an interception. Those are good results, but they aren’t necessarily indicative of good cornerback play. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

At this point with Elam I hope we can just salvage someone who can contribute even at depth/backup/spot starter level. He's a total bust at a 1st round pick but maybe we can at least get some kind of help from him and his little notebook. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I don't see how he sees the field over Douglas or Benford but he's a great depth piece and should be starter next year , doubt they bring Douglas back. 

 

He has flashed plenty,  just has to get more well rounded. 

 

It's a huge year for him.  He has to prove he is worthy of replacing Douglas next season.

As others have said, he needs to replace the "grabbing" with good technique.  I'm sure he knows that like everyone else.

His progress, or lack of, will be one of the top 5 things to look for in camp.

[Taro Nimbus]

Thad Brown has a face you just want to punch.  

[MJS]

All I know is that the little he has been on the field, he has looked decent to me. And he clearly has athleticism and ball skills. Has he been a little too handsy? Sure, but he has been sticky in coverage as well.

 

I'd like to see him get more playing time this year. And hopefully he can step in and start next year with Douglas leaving. That would be the ideal situation.

[ColoradoBills]

14 minutes ago, MJS said:

All I know is that the little he has been on the field, he has looked decent to me. And he clearly has athleticism and ball skills. Has he been a little too handsy? Sure, but he has been sticky in coverage as well.

 

I'd like to see him get more playing time this year. And hopefully he can step in and start next year with Douglas leaving. That would be the ideal situation.

 

He should be CB#3 for boundary corners.  Not sure how much he will also see in dime. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Damn...

 

Well you've posted about your perceived phenomenon of Bills fans wanting to see players fail..........so when you post a self-stroker I think it's fair to assume you do so because you want credit for not being one of those imaginary Bills fans that want to see Chase Claypool drop a game winning TD or Kaiir Elam give one up. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

6 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Is a cornerback who mauls wideouts really better suited for a strict man defense?   How many PI and defensive holding calls would he have if he played in strict man?

 

Others have said Elam may be better-suited to some other team, than he is to the Bills. Perhaps they're right. Put him in a Chiefs uniform, and the penalties you're describing instantly vanish.