Kaiir Elam discussing the last 2 years & his struggles...

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I really hope this kid lives up to his potential and draft pick status.  I still have high hopes for him.

 

 

Thanks for sharing.   Because so many Bills fans want to see a #1 draft pick fail.    Important to note that you aren't one of them.  

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Safety.  I have inside information (maybe it is public and I don't know it), that they really want to look at him as a safety.  That might help the grabbiness at the top of routes - seeing the play unfold and running to the catch point rather than trying to mirror sometimes.  Others on here have posted he would be terrible at safety, but the Bills believe there is at least some chance those posters are wrong.

Thanks for the inside info. It’s worth a shot as they’re paying him anyway. It’s not like there isn’t some talent there. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

Thanks for the inside info. It’s worth a shot as they’re paying him anyway. It’s not like there isn’t some talent there. 

No worries.  Was glad to be able to share it.  This board has its downsides, but on the whole I think it is really pretty great and reflects the insight of our fanbase and their commitment to the team.  So it is a privilege to add a tidbit!

 

[billsfan89]

Elam had a decent rookie year, he struggled but he had flashes of solid play. Certainly a “typical” rookie year. Year two he started off terribly but once it was revealed he was dealing with an injury it made sense and then when he came back from injury he looked better.

 

Hopefully he can stay healthy and improve it would be nice to see a player with his potential put it together 

[MarlinTheMagician]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

Elam had a decent rookie year, he struggled but he had flashes of solid play. Certainly a “typical” rookie year. Year two he started off terribly but once it was revealed he was dealing with an injury it made sense and then when he came back from injury he looked better.

 

Hopefully he can stay healthy and improve it would be nice to see a player with his potential put it together 

Agree with this.  Suspect rebuilding his confidence is as important as working with TJ to refine his footwork.  Rooting for the young man.

I went to the preseason game vs. Colts when he and Bedford were both rookies.  Both of them had pretty dominant performances in that game.  Day time preseason games are underrated.  It is a wonderful way to kill an afternoon, see the depth of the team, and have a couple beers without being stressed out of my mind.  I live in the New York area and my fiance and I took in the preseason game, went to the Fair and then saw Zach Bryan at Darien Lake.  Gave her the full Buffalo experience!  Was awesome.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

His college film had a ton of grabbing at the top of routes. That tells me that he doesn’t have the agility to stay with quick WRs. I think it’s that rather than a loss of focus, though a lack of confidence could contribute. I don’t know that this is fixable. The situation is made worse by his poor feel for zone so we can’t hide him there. He feels like the CB version of a talented WR who doesn’t run his routes correctly or understand his route options. That all said, I think the Bills’ plan is to try to coach him up and get him on the field to see if he’s salvageable. 

 

 

To me,  it comes down to whether Elam has the ability to learn it all quickly enough to make it in the league.  He can work on his footwork all he wants,  he needs to recognize what opponents are trying to do before the play and on the fly so that he isn't clutching/grabbing and getting burned.    Rasul Douglas BARELY made it before the league gave up on him.   But he also had a lot of motivation to persevere until the light bulb came on because he never got a big first round pick contract.

[thenorthremembers]

I absolutely love these reporters who go on and on about poor scheme fits like it's 1975.   If you want to be successful in the NFL in 2024 you have to be scheme versatile.   Yes, the Bills play zone defense, but they also play man.    The issue with Elam isn't that he doesnt fit the Bills scheme, the issue with Elam is he has poor technique.    He literally can't play his position without mauling wideouts.   He gets himself in position by taking the wideout out of position.   Is a cornerback who mauls wideouts really better suited for a strict man defense?   How many PI and defensive holding calls would he have if he played in strict man?

 

Elam isn't doing well in Buffalo because our coaches have a standard of play and a level of expectation, if you don't meet it, you don't get on the field.  They could have easily put him on the field just because he was a 1st round pick, and he would likely have decent stats.   With those decent stats people would say he fits the scheme.    But then the team would be sacrificing their standard just to play a 1st round pick.    Bottom line is the Bills value good technique and the ability to play in team defense over draft position, it's what smart organizations do.  

 

It's not a bad scheme fit, it's a cornerback who has poor awareness. 

Edited May 29 by thenorthremembers

[T master]

36 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I cringe every time I read something as unaware and ridiculous as this. Elam isn’t some child trying to learn to ride a bike or a junior high schooler struggling with algebra. This is a grown man who is being paid millions of dollars to do his job. I’m sure he’s trying and getting help from his team, but the adults in the room understand what happens when a team member can’t do their job and holds his team back. 

 

So then what your telling me is once you are considered or put into the "Adult" category of life you can never make mistakes or learn because your a grown man even though he is still a very young person as far as experience goes  ? 

 

I will be 63 this yr & I've been performing my job for 15 + years and i learn things every time i go out on another run because everything around us is changing all the time, as is the game of football, then you have to put into the equation the college game is much different from the pro game being faster, bigger, smarter more experienced, stronger players  .

 

Once you think because your a adult that you can no longer learn especially seeing as this is a young person they will be doomed to move forward or become better at anything they attempt . So i guess we will have to agree to disagree with each other but that's cool not all of us are of the same opinions or the wway we see things .

 

But i still hope he has learned and can become a better player for it weather it's with the Bills or another team later on which we have seen happen before in the NFL as the light may come on .

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

It's a good point about bigger corners.  I read the commentary from Thad earlier in the thread, and I have to say I have no idea how Elam's (larger) size impairs his fit in this defense.  Douglas fits in this defense.  Benford, who is probably about 20 pounds heavier than Elam and the same height, fits in this defense.  Josh Norman has long fit in this defense.  And so have smaller corners like Levi Wallace.  So, contrary to Thad's point, I'm a little lost as to how size dictates fit at that position in this D, and I too am hopeful that Elam can figure things out. 

 

Agreed.  

 

The narrative on him has been that he's good at press coverage and man-to-man but the Bills primarily employ zone which he doesn't excel at.   How does size impact your ability to play zone?  Zone requires smarts and quickness, and Elam doesn't seem to lack either. 

 

He may be a bad fit for the Bills but not because of his size.  The whole thing is puzzling, and I feel like we're not getting the whole story.  

 

 

[That's No Moon]

Someone explain to me how a player who doesn't grasp zone well will do better as a safety? Safety is all about reading the play, not just chasing a guy around the field.

[BarleyNY]

8 minutes ago, T master said:

 

So then what your telling me is once you are considered or put into the "Adult" category of life you can never make mistakes or learn because your a grown man even though he is still a very young person as far as experience goes  ? 

 

I will be 63 this yr & I've been performing my job for 15 + years and i learn things every time i go out on another run because everything around us is changing all the time, as is the game of football, then you have to put into the equation the college game is much different from the pro game being faster, bigger, smarter more experienced, stronger players  .

 

Once you think because your a adult that you can no longer learn especially seeing as this is a young person they will be doomed to move forward or become better at anything they attempt . So i guess we will have to agree to disagree with each other but that's cool not all of us are of the same opinions or the wway we see things .

 

But i still hope he has learned and can become a better player for it weather it's with the Bills or another team later on which we have seen happen before in the NFL as the light may come on .

 

My issues were your condescending response to posters legitimately voicing concerns about a player doing their job while at the same time giving said player a pass for their substantial underperformance. There’s a huge difference between a first round pick being buried on the depth chart for two seasons and a productive player figuring out some of the finer points of the game. I think most here can distinguish between the two. Acting like they are the same is ridiculous. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Thanks for sharing.   Because so many Bills fans want to see a #1 draft pick fail.    Important to note that you aren't one of them.  

Damn...

[Bruffalo]

I'd say anything the Bills can get out of him is a bonus, and not to be expected.  Elam is going to have to perform astonishingly well in camp to see any meaningful time on the field. I wouldn't bet on it.   

 

 

We should all be thankful that we took Benford and that he's become a decent CB2. 

[GustheDog33]

5 hours ago, stosh64 said:

Who actually pays 'thad' to write about the Bills?  The Pats***?

Thad is about as useful of a Bills reporter as that box of nails in my garage would be at the same job.  When Thad starts talking Bills I tend to move on with my day.  He is incredibly terrible at whatever it is he does that he calls "reporting."

[JerseyBills]

I don't see how he sees the field over Douglas or Benford but he's a great depth piece and should be starter next year , doubt they bring Douglas back. 

 

He has flashed plenty,  just has to get more well rounded. 

[Buff the Cat]

I think his quote about working with Taron Johnson and "playing smaller" is in part about being in position, specifically when playing zone coverage. I played DB for a number of years and in college as well, and if you have a proclivity towards man coverage it can be really hard to drop into your proper zone spot when in zone coverage. This, in my experience, is difficult because you feel as though you are too far away from anyone you should be covering and tend to cheat towards the nearest guy you see which just throws off your zone.

[Mango]

4 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Seems like he loses focus and gets grabby. I don’t think it has anything to do with being  a big CB.  Maybe he wasn’t mature enough and thought his last name and his notebook spiel was enough to make it in the NFL.  Let’s hope he gets it now.  Sometimes it takes guys a couple years to learn how to be a professional.  

I think he’s saying his game is heavily reliant on his size, strength, physicality and athleticism. That’s his sweet spot. Whereas some of those guys are reliant on intuition, details, etc. 

 

I don’t think it’s a maturity or notebook issue. I think he’s a smart guy. I think he knows the playbook and works hard. He’s just struggled with application. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

His college film had a ton of grabbing at the top of routes. That tells me that he doesn’t have the agility to stay with quick WRs. I think it’s that rather than a loss of focus, though a lack of confidence could contribute. I don’t know that this is fixable. The situation is made worse by his poor feel for zone so we can’t hide him there. He feels like the CB version of a talented WR who doesn’t run his routes correctly or understand his route options. That all said, I think the Bills’ plan is to try to coach him up and get him on the field to see if he’s salvageable. 

Good points.  I have always liked Elam's game more then some.  (I was also a big Leodis McKelvin fan more then a lot of people too)  But we all have our preferences in everything in life.  So CB's are no different.  I think the kid has some talent.  He hasn't been great.  But not horrible either.  He had a big pick against the Steelers in the Wild Card game. 

 

I think playing CB is a whole lot about confidence.  All these guys are pretty athletic, otherwise they are not getting drafted high in the NFL.  Some have a little more then others.  Does Elam have the talent to be special like a Tre White pre injury, probably not?  But I think he can turn into a solid starter at the NFL level.  Just needs to believe in himself, and stay healthy.  

[BuffaloRebound]

12 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think he’s saying his game is heavily reliant on his size, strength, physicality and athleticism. That’s his sweet spot. Whereas some of those guys are reliant on intuition, details, etc. 

 

I don’t think it’s a maturity or notebook issue. I think he’s a smart guy. I think he knows the playbook and works hard. He’s just struggled with application. 

That’s probably part of it but I think trying to jump every route and make the splash play versus being solid and more opportunistic was probably his biggest problem his first 2 years.  

[BigDingus]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Yes, the Bills play zone defense, but they also play man.  The issue with Elam isn't that he doesnt fit the Bills scheme, the issue with Elam is he has poor technique.

.....

 

It's not a bad scheme fit, it's a cornerback who has poor awareness. 

 

Exactly. The whole idea that it's all a scheme thing drives me crazy. We have a need for CBs that play man too. Problem is he can't do that either, not without holding like crazy.

 

And no, I don't root for him to fail. What Bills fan wants our own players to do poorly? The goal is to win a SB... Anyone that can help us get closer to achieving that is great in my book.

 

But reports on Elam not doing well started coming out almost immediately during training camp. The board didn't believe it, but then our 6th round pick was named the starter for the Rams game to opening the season. That was alarming, especially when we were down Tre White & spent a 1st round pick trying to fill that void.

 

People act like the Bills weren't aware of what defense he played in college & just drafted him on a whim. "He doesn't fit the scheme!" is an easy way to hand wave away the issues.

 

Clearly, the Bills FO, scouting department & coaches watched a ton of tape on him. In fact, they probably drafted him for his man coverage experience hoping he could replicate that & hold his own against the best WRs in the AFC. That hasn't happened.