What to do with the post June $10 M that will be available

[Cubanmist 1]

Definitely not wreck it in one day. Much rather make trades with other teams. Movable pieces IMO are Von, Elam, Dorian.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Much like I discussed with Kincaid before him, how could you not increase his role and opportunities following his 2nd year? It'd be borderline malpractice to do that with either of them as they are continuing to develop.

 

The other perspective is that it's malpractice to elevate Shakir above the low-target role that his skill set probably deserves. Malpractice not just for the offense but for Shakir himself by laying bigger expectations on him than he can likely deliver.

 

In fact that is verbatim what happened with Gabe Davis. If he had remained the WR4 for his entire stint here I bet he would have gotten $18M per year this offseason. Some team would see what he did in that role and convince themselves he would explode in a more featured role, as most fans and analysts predicted after his divisional round performance. Instead we elevated his role which laid his faults out bare for everyone to see, and as a result he ended up getting Darnell Mooney money instead of Christian Kirk money.

 

Giving players the right amount of opportunity for their skill set is best for everybody involved.

[SoonerBillsFan]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:41 AM, Magox said:

As everyone knows, there will soon be $10M available because of the Tre White release.   What do you think the Bills should do with that money?

 

 

Personally for me and I know this won't be a popular take among the most ardent WR proponents, I believe this team is lacking depth at safety and CB.

 

I think the Bills should look to get another player that is borderline starting quality for both of those positions to compete for a starting spot or be in the every Sunday rotation.   I could see the Bills look to get another quality rotational DT but aside from that, I think the Bills are set to go into this next coming season.

Nothing, sit on it.

[Thrivefourfive]

 

Pay off and get rid of Bass

[Einstein's Dog]

13 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

It's not "apprehension". It's a matter of it could be any of a number of 4 different WR's. 

 

You discount Keon Coleman and his potential. You obviously weren't a fan of him in the Draft process. 

 

Then there's Curtis Samuel. A guy who has produced at a high level for a number of years, playing with QB's nowhere near on the level of Josh Allen. He was signed to a 3 year, 24 million dollar contract - with 15m in guaranteed money. This kind of investment denotes a decent role in this offense. 

 

Again, to add another WR of this level would be to push one of these 4 to 5th in targets on the team and a minimal role. There's only so many balls to go around. For example, 5th in targets for this team last year was a total of 45 targets all year. One of these guys would be denoted to an average of 2 and a half targets total per game. None of these players should be or will be relegated to such a role.

 

He's betting on potential and development over established stars. You obviously disagree with this course of action, but that is *clearly* the course.

 

Like it or not, and it's fair to not, the WR Room is set. We only kept 5 WR's last season (in large part because Kincaid is a WR) and we have 5 WR's that are locks. The likelihood of what you not only hope for, but expect/say will happen, is as likely as it was for us to move up in the Top 10 of the Draft. It's just like last season. It's fair to say you feel he hasn't done enough. But what he has done (just like Harty and Sherfield last year) IS done. And those guys aren't going anywhere.

Some responses:

The question wasn't who will be the top WR, the question is who do you think is the top Bills WR now, going into the 2024 season?  You avoided answering it, and it's easy to understand why, an answer of C Samuel or a second round rookie is embarrassingly bad.

 

You are wrong when you say I wasn't a fan of K Coleman.  I like the pick, just not as an immediate replacement for Diggs or Davis.  I think K Coleman needs developmental time.

 

You say the WR is set and it is *clearly* the course.  Your definitive tone is just your bias on what you think is going to happen.  Just like when you were shown the error of your "can't do it for cap reasons", your fuzzy math on targets is full of errors.  And 6 WRs is a possibility, as well as one of your "locks" not making it (ie OJ Howard).

 

I'm surprised by how many people think Beane will have done a good job if the top WR in 2024 is scheduled to be C Samuel.

[BillsFanForever19]

16 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Some responses:

The question wasn't who will be the top WR, the question is who do you think is the top Bills WR now, going into the 2024 season?  You avoided answering it, and it's easy to understand why, an answer of C Samuel or a second round rookie is embarrassingly bad.

 

You are wrong when you say I wasn't a fan of K Coleman.  I like the pick, just not as an immediate replacement for Diggs or Davis.  I think K Coleman needs developmental time.

 

You say the WR is set and it is *clearly* the course.  Your definitive tone is just your bias on what you think is going to happen.  Just like when you were shown the error of your "can't do it for cap reasons", your fuzzy math on targets is full of errors.  And 6 WRs is a possibility, as well as one of your "locks" not making it (ie OJ Howard).

 

I'm surprised by how many people think Beane will have done a good job if the top WR in 2024 is scheduled to be C Samuel.

 

Those of us pointing out that with what's in house combined with the moves he's already made lead to it being unlikely he's going to add more, does not mean everyone's 100% all on board with what's he done and think he's done a great job. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I too worry that the build of this room and him banking on potential over established stars might not work like he thinks it will. But that doesn't automatically equate to "he's definitely going to trade for a WR". 

 

It's not "bias" to look at things and say it's unlikely he's going to cut all but one player out of the field of MVS, Hollins, Claypool, and Hamler. You invoke the name of OJ Howard. OJ Howard is very much the exception and not the rule. As @HappyDays pointed out, he's the only player under the Beane regime to get guaranteed money as a FA and be cut. As i've said, it's just like last year with Harty and Sherfield. It's fine to say, you don't like Samuel, MVS, Hollins, Claypool and Hamler and that he should have acquired someone bigger. It's another to expect him to cut 3 out of the 5 of the guys he's just brought in. Which is what it would require if we were to keep the same number of WR's we kept last season. Much like Harty and Sherfield last year, regardless of your thoughts on Samuel, MVS, and Hollins - they aren't going anywhere.

 

And then there's Justin Shorter, who would also have to be cut. Say what you will about Beane drafting him or drafting him where he did. But much like the Howard discussion, there's literally only been one time in Beane's tenure where we outright cut a player drafted before Round 6 without ever being on the 53 (Vosean Joseph in 2020).  

 

There's a large number of discrepancies with what you not only hope, but expect. But ultimately, it's a numbers game. And he's already brought in an equal amount of players that absolutely won't be cut, proportionate to the amount of roster spots that needed to be replaced. And that's not even counting guys like Chase Claypool, Justin Shorter, and KJ Hamler.

Edited May 31 by BillsFanForever19

[BillsFanForever19]

22 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The other perspective is that it's malpractice to elevate Shakir above the low-target role that his skill set probably deserves. Malpractice not just for the offense but for Shakir himself by laying bigger expectations on him than he can likely deliver.

 

In fact that is verbatim what happened with Gabe Davis. If he had remained the WR4 for his entire stint here I bet he would have gotten $18M per year this offseason. Some team would see what he did in that role and convince themselves he would explode in a more featured role, as most fans and analysts predicted after his divisional round performance. Instead we elevated his role which laid his faults out bare for everyone to see, and as a result he ended up getting Darnell Mooney money instead of Christian Kirk money.

 

Giving players the right amount of opportunity for their skill set is best for everybody involved.

 

I'm not saying that it's a sure thing that Shakir will be even better if given more opportunities. But it's unfair to point to Gabe Davis and say that since he didn't produce when given a promotion, that no one else ever should be afforded a bigger role.

 

It's common practice that if you have a young player who exceeded expectations in a minimal role and is on an upward swing of ascension that they are rewarded with more opportunities. Sometimes the development continues and the player ascends. Sometimes they fall on their face like Davis. And I'm not saying we should make Shakir the focal point of the passing game.

 

But it would be crazy after his production (especially down the stretch) last season in a minimal role to maintain him as someone who is no higher than 5th in targets on the team (as he was last season).

Edited May 31 by BillsFanForever19

[Thurman#1]

On 5/29/2024 at 1:55 AM, Einstein's Dog said:

But after taking in a WR the FO can restructure and play games with the cap.  For instance after having the funds to bring in Metcalf they could then restructure his contract to a cap hit to around $7M (see DHop 23 salary of $1.8M or Diggs cap hit in 2024 of $6M).

 

So in your example above, they restructure Josh, get the money to bring in Metcalf.  Immediately restructure Metcalf to around $7M cap hit and the Bills have $10M+ left ($10M Tre + $6M Josh + $2M to start - $7M Metcalf). 

 

You don't wait until the trade deadline, the number 1 seed is important.  Also if you wait you might not have the funds available for the initial surge needed to bring someone in.  For example you need around $15M to bring in an Aiyuk or Metcalf before you can restructure- as best as I can tell, those are the rules.

 

 

Theoretically, yes, they could do all that. They could bring in an expensive guy like an Aiyuk or a Metcalf.

 

But they've shown they don't want to. If they'd wanted to open up space they could just have moved most of Diggs' cap hit to next year. They didn't. The folks on here who always prefer kicking cans down the road are not in line with what Beane and the brain trust want. Nor with what is best for the long-term interests of the team.

 

They were deeply constricted this year, and they want to make that a one-year thing rather than something they have to deal with every year.

 

They're far more concerned about the 2025 cap than many on here are.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:32 AM, HappyDays said:

 

The other perspective is that it's malpractice to elevate Shakir above the low-target role that his skill set probably deserves. Malpractice not just for the offense but for Shakir himself by laying bigger expectations on him than he can likely deliver.

 

In fact that is verbatim what happened with Gabe Davis. If he had remained the WR4 for his entire stint here I bet he would have gotten $18M per year this offseason. Some team would see what he did in that role and convince themselves he would explode in a more featured role, as most fans and analysts predicted after his divisional round performance. Instead we elevated his role which laid his faults out bare for everyone to see, and as a result he ended up getting Darnell Mooney money instead of Christian Kirk money.

 

Giving players the right amount of opportunity for their skill set is best for everybody involved.

 

 

IMO Shakir has already shown that his skill set is larger than you're seeing.

 

The last nine games of the season he had 444 yards. Over 17 games that's an 838 yard clip. He handled that just fine, a lot better than fine, actually.

 

During those nine games, to put up those 444 yards, he received only 30 targets. And he caught 26 of those 30 targets, which is an 87% catch rate.

 

Nor do I agree one bit with your idea that if we'd thrown less to Gabe he'd have received more money. That's a WAG. More likely you're right that someone would have figured that he'd have might be able to handle a featured role, but that he'd have gotten right around what he got, with that figure having looked like a bigger risk than it does now with less actual production to show.

 

Christian Kirk didn't get Christian Kirk money because he was showcased less than Gabe was. More, in fact.

 

Kirk is the 23rd highest paid WR in terms of AAY, and Darnell Mooney and Gabe Davis tied for 27th. The three guys who fell between (Tyler Lockett, Courtland Sutton and Jerry Jeudy) do not look like anything like a Gabe Davis with fewer opportunities, any more than Christian Kirk does.

[machine gun kelly]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:06 PM, Thrivefourfive said:

 

Pay off and get rid of Bass

I love that movie.  Heat was so intense.  One of the best gunfights in a movie I’ve ever seen.

[Einstein's Dog]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Theoretically, yes, they could do all that. They could bring in an expensive guy like an Aiyuk or a Metcalf.

 

But they've shown they don't want to. If they'd wanted to open up space they could just have moved most of Diggs' cap hit to next year. They didn't. The folks on here who always prefer kicking cans down the road are not in line with what Beane and the brain trust want. Nor with what is best for the long-term interests of the team.

 

They were deeply constricted this year, and they want to make that a one-year thing rather than something they have to deal with every year.

 

They're far more concerned about the 2025 cap than many on here are.

The above "they've shown they don't want to" is where I disagree with many here.  What I see is a short term blip, over the long haul they do want good WRs.  Their strategy is the sound strategy of paying a franchise QB, DE, WR1, LT - and there had been CB1.  Just because they temporarily moved out their WR1 doesn't mean to me that they totally revised their strategy.

 

Yes, the Bills had cap issues, but I don't think their idea is to take a year off from being contenders because of it.  That would be a huge mea culpa and would be a massive stain on the resume of Beane.  I don't think he ever intended to do that.  It looks to me like Beane has fooled a lot of people.

 

IMO, getting a top WR would not be kicking the can down the road.  It would be in the form of a thought out plan.  That plan has the room for around a $30M WR1.  Look how inexpensive all the rest of the offensive playmakers are - and that they are covered through 2025 - Josh 4, K Coleman 4, Kincaid 4, Samuel 3, Shakir 2, Cook 2 with backups Davis 4 and Knox.  The 2025 cap should not be a problem, it can handle a top tier WR, looks to me like that is a good fit.

 

But why wait until 2025 when you can get a WR1 now.  So if you get one for 2024 I would think the Bills would do it quickly after the Tre money comes in.  Because if they want Metcalf or Aiyuk you want to get them before J Jefferson's contract hits which should reset the market.  And if the Bills wanted to go big and get J Jefferson they would want to do that early also to put Miami (T Hill) and Cincy (J Chase) into chaos.  Plus the Bills would need every available fund prior to being able to bring J Jeff's $19.7M cap hit.  I'll be getting up early on Monday June 3rd.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 5/28/2024 at 9:11 AM, Magox said:

Cam Lewis and Hardy are NB defenders, we are good in depth there.   Where we don't have much depth are on the boundaries, we truly have only 3 tested players there and Ingram.   All it takes is an injury and that spot is looking very worrisome.   

 

At the safety spot you have two tested players in Edwards and Rapp, Hamlin hasn't showed much and Bishop who I like a lot is still an untested rookie.  The team likes to play with 3 safety alignments, so that's another position if you get an injury then that means Hamlin will be thrust into playing.  That's another position where we lack depth.

 

 

They aren't going to roster 12 defensive backs on the 53.   They have 10 now that all project to play roles on defense and/or special teams.   And there will always be a version of Josh Norman kicking around on a practice squad somewhere to be an emergency boundary CB.   They don't lack depth.   Look at every other teams depth chart.   They all have an Ingram or Hamlin type in their top 10.   What the Bills lack are high end starters at safety.    If they had prime Poyer and Hyde I doubt you'd be worried about Hamilin and Cam Lewis as the reserves.   But the reality is that Edwards and Rapp were both starting safeties on SB winning teams in the very recent past.   It's likely that they are "good enough".

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

IMO Shakir has already shown that his skill set is larger than you're seeing.

 

The last nine games of the season he had 444 yards. Over 17 games that's an 838 yard clip. He handled that just fine, a lot better than fine, actually.

 

During those nine games, to put up those 444 yards, he received only 30 targets. And he caught 26 of those 30 targets, which is an 87% catch rate.

 

Nor do I agree one bit with your idea that if we'd thrown less to Gabe he'd have received more money. That's a WAG. More likely you're right that someone would have figured that he'd have might be able to handle a featured role, but that he'd have gotten right around what he got, with that figure having looked like a bigger risk than it does now with less actual production to show.

 

Christian Kirk didn't get Christian Kirk money because he was showcased less than Gabe was. More, in fact.

 

Kirk is the 23rd highest paid WR in terms of AAY, and Darnell Mooney and Gabe Davis tied for 27th. The three guys who fell between (Tyler Lockett, Courtland Sutton and Jerry Jeudy) do not look like anything like a Gabe Davis with fewer opportunities, any more than Christian Kirk does.

He actually had 536 yards over the last 10 games, which averages out to 911 yards. One of those games was the Dallas game, where Allen only had 7 completions in a blowout win. I'd personally also factor in the two most important games - the playoffs. Not a lot of yardage but two TDs. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

Blow it all on beer and steaks.

 

Wait, wait...I'm worried some of you quickly read the above and thought it said, "Blow a lot of it on beer and steaks," when what was written was, "Blow it all on beer and steaks."

 

Go Bills! 

 

Go Late Summer Weekend Parties!

 

 

[Thrivefourfive]

14 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I love that movie.  Heat was so intense.  One of the best gunfights in a movie I’ve ever seen.

The whole thing is just so good. Even Job Voight telling Neil that Hanna thinks he’s sharp. Every scene was great. 

[Rubes]

The day finally arrived, and according to Fanatics we currently stand at $11.1 million under. What happens next...?

 

[njbuff]

18 minutes ago, Rubes said:

The day finally arrived, and according to Fanatics we currently stand at $11.1 million under. What happens next...?

 

 

If it's me.....

 

Sign Justin Simmons, have enough money for draft picks and release Damar. 

[Chandler#81]

What’s our pressing need and who currently available fits the billet? 
 

I’m thinking pass rusher or Safety -if only for assurance. We ran out of these prior to the Chiefs playoff game.

P.S. Thanks for the memories, Tre’!

[Beast]

Rookie deals, right?

[BuffBillsForLife]

It's going to pay the draft class.