What to do with the post June $10 M that will be available

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

All our resident Beanologists and their interpretations of the quotes according to Beane.  What happened to "Don't expect Coleman to be the starter week 1" or "I would never do a rebuild as long as I have Josh Allen as my QB".  With so many Beane quotes, I'm glad we have people who can definitively interpret and explain the contradictions that arise.

 

Who do you consider the top WR on the Bills roster right now for the 2024 season?

 

Because it really wouldn't change my overall mantra from before, which was: "Beane is a great GM, a great GM would never have C Samuel as his top WR" to something like "Beane is a great GM, a great GM would never count on a second round WR, 8th WR taken, as his expected top WR" - which should really bring home why I don't think he is done.

 

What happened to the "Coleman will have a hard time starting the year" quote is that he said it only one time during his intro press conference. And to that, I think @HappyDays put it best in another thread when it comes to that quote:

 

Quote

There's a much publicized quote from Beane after the draft where he said something to the effect of "it will be hard for Coleman to start from day one." This is the messaging the team always puts out there for their rookies to hear. But he let slip their real plans in the chaos of draft weekend - Coleman is going to be the early favorite for the starting X receiver role.

 

Since making that statement, he's confirmed Happy's sentiment by calling Coleman on at least 3 separate occasions "The X". That's his role on the team and that was Diggs' role on the team.

 

Will being this team's X make him the #1 WR? It really depends on your definition. If your definition is the go to option or the WR with the most yardage - time will tell on that. But if your definition of WR1 is the starting X WR - then, yeah, Keon Coleman is WR1.

 

As for the question of who I think the #1 WR will end up being, in terms of yardage and production, I don't have a Crystal Ball. But I imagine it will be one of Keon Coleman, Dalton Kincaid (a Big Slot WR in reality and a TE in name only - like Von Miller is a "LB"), Khalil Shakir, or Curtis Samuel.

 

That uncertainty is something else that Beane has also spoke of multiple times since the Draft. He's said on a number of occasions that he wanted to create a room where week to week, that #1 option could change. Where the ball is spread around and there isn't just one Diggs like player that the Defense keys in on.

 

And that comes to another problem with your theory. If they were to trade for a WR (unlikely at this stage IMO for a number of other reasons, as I've discussed) - that would mean that one of Coleman, Shakir, Kincaid, or Samuel would likely be no better than option 5 when it comes to targets and reps.

 

And with what they've invested in that group, how they want to develop and evaluate the younger players, and the skill/production some of them have shown already - I absolutely do not see that happening.

 

Again, you're calling out people for thinking they know how Beane operates (mockingly calling them "resident Beaneologists").... then claim to know how Beane is going to operate. It's pot and kettle.

Edited May 29 by BillsFanForever19

[Matt_In_NH]

Draft picks, Replacement guys and practice squad

[machine gun kelly]

My guess is we get our rookies signed, and maybe acquire an Edge Rusher, or leave as a rainy day fund.

[BobbyC81]

As far as WRs, I think they now have enough options.  If not enough of them pan out, then they can look elsewhere.  I trust in Brady to do as he says and he creates play# to the strengths of the players.

 

Regarding edge rusher, considering Leonard Floyd had the most sacks and he’s gone, they need a youngster to step up their play or bring someone else in.

[DC Grid]

The team is super cap focused.  My bet is unless they see a major hole / problem developing on the roster they didn’t anticipate, they’ll sign the draft class and look to either roll forward any left over for next year or do an extension that again provides relief next year.  

[Captain Hindsight]

22 hours ago, Billl said:

Two chicks at the same time. 

You might need more than 10 mil

[Gregg]

Saw this posted on another Bills site. Any interest?

 

 

If you google Jonathan Allen, several "trade rumors" have the Washington Commanders potentially trading Jonathan Allen, DL.

The Commanders just drafted Jerzhan Newton, DT, and gave Daron Payne a $90 million 4 year deal, so they may want to free up some Cap.

Joe Marino thinks a 3rd and a 6th could be fair trade value - if the Commanders wanted to deal him, and Beane was interested  (FYI the Miami Dolphins are one team sniffing around Allen)

Allen had 10 sacks, 8 sacks, and 6 sacks over the last 3 years.   He is 29 years old, 300lbs and 6'3". 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

What happened to the "Coleman will have a hard time starting the year" quote is that he said it only one time during his intro press conference. And to that, I think @HappyDays put it best in another thread when it comes to that quote:

 

 

Since making that statement, he's confirmed Happy's sentiment by calling Coleman on at least 3 separate occasions "The X". That's his role on the team and that was Diggs' role on the team.

 

Will being this team's X make him the #1 WR? It really depends on your definition. If your definition is the go to option or the WR with the most yardage - time will tell on that. But if your definition of WR1 is the starting X WR - then, yeah, Keon Coleman is WR1.

 

As for the question of who I think the #1 WR will end up being, in terms of yardage and production, I don't have a Crystal Ball. But I imagine it will be one of Keon Coleman, Dalton Kincaid (a Big Slot WR in reality and a TE in name only - like Von Miller is a "LB"), Khalil Shakir, or Curtis Samuel.

 

That uncertainty is something else that Beane has also spoke of multiple times since the Draft. He's said on a number of occasions that he wanted to create a room where week to week, that #1 option could change. Where the ball is spread around and there isn't just one Diggs like player that the Defense keys in on.

 

And that comes to another problem with your theory. If they were to trade for a WR (unlikely at this stage IMO for a number of other reasons, as I've discussed) - that would mean that one of Coleman, Shakir, Kincaid, or Samuel would likely be no better than option 5 when it comes to targets and reps.

 

And with what they've invested in that group, how they want to develop and evaluate the younger players, and the skill/production some of them have shown already - I absolutely do not see that happening.

 

Again, you're calling out people for thinking they know how Beane operates (mockingly calling them "resident Beaneologists").... then claim to know how Beane is going to operate. It's pot and kettle.

My question is who do you consider the Bills best WR heading into the season?  Not X or WR1, just the on-paper best WR the Bills have going into 2024.

 

I can understand your apprehension in answering this question, because it doesn't bode well for Beane at this time. 

 

My point in saying Beaneologist is when I bring up actions that I consider signs, people respond with words from Beane.  And those words are selected from a vast pool.  And much like the Happydays example the ones they consider applicable are the ones they want/think are going to happen.

[MikePJ76]

seems they have to just hang tight in case of injury through the summer and start of the season.

 

I really hope they exhaust every potential defensive lineman possibility.  

 

Yannick Ngakoue had a good 22 and was not as productive in 23.  If they could sign him and get the 22 version that had 9 sacks and 8 tfl he would be worth it on a 1 year deal that made sense.

[MikePJ76]

24 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Saw this posted on another Bills site. Any interest?

 

 

If you google Jonathan Allen, several "trade rumors" have the Washington Commanders potentially trading Jonathan Allen, DL.

The Commanders just drafted Jerzhan Newton, DT, and gave Daron Payne a $90 million 4 year deal, so they may want to free up some Cap.

Joe Marino thinks a 3rd and a 6th could be fair trade value - if the Commanders wanted to deal him, and Beane was interested  (FYI the Miami Dolphins are one team sniffing around Allen)

Allen had 10 sacks, 8 sacks, and 6 sacks over the last 3 years.   He is 29 years old, 300lbs and 6'3". 

 

they would then have to extend him in order to get him under this years cap.  Seems like the kind of thing they are openly going away from at the moment.  

 

Hard to understand why Dan Quinn would want to trade away a guy like allen at this point in the year, seems like that would have been something they would have done before the draft.  They would be sick if something happens to one of the other two tackles and they traded away Allen.    Maybe next offseason when he has a year left on his deal that would make more sense.

 

having said that if someone was willing to move a 2 or 3 for him it would be really hard to pass up I imagine.

[noacls]

Nothing. Roll it over ti next year

[Alphadawg7]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Dawg / Dog fight

 

bahahaha that made me LOL...more like Dawg/Dog discussion, but still was funny AF

[aristocrat]

sign justin simmons and i'll feel a lot better about our defense. 

[boyst]

can't we restructure josh in season, i think a few others also.

 

at one point the bills were looking to rework Milano's deal, as well as a possible other look at some established veterans just to space it out some. if i undestood the tea leaves right this lost urgency because of the willingness of Knox to go so team friendly

[SCBills]

The way we've structured this WR room for the Summer truly lends itself to the idea that we're not making a move there.  At least not before the season. 

 

They're expecting Shakir to continue ascending, went out and targeted Samuel for a reason and expect Keon Coleman to be a factor so he needs to be given opportunities this Summer to get on the same page with Josh and improve on his areas of weakness.

 

MVS and Hollins were brought in for specific reasons.  Hollins as a character guy, size/run blocking and Special Teams.  MVS as an outside deep threat.

 

That's 5 locks. 

 

Beane likely pitched a fair battle for WR6 to guys like Hamler and Claypool, while also wanting to see what they have in Shorter and Shavers. 

 

IF we use some of this money, it seems highly likely it's for a defensive piece.  Simmons seems unlikely, but potentially they inquire if Hyde gives them an indication he's not returning.  A trade for a guy like Jonathan Allen makes sense as mentioned above, given he can play all over the DL.  Could relegate Dashawn Williams to the PS, if we can stash him there, and carry 4 DT's, 5 DE's and a movable piece in Allen. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

On 5/28/2024 at 8:52 AM, HappyDays said:

Keep it saved for a WR at the trade deadline. If the room turns out better than expected, roll it over to 2025.

It's not the sexy move but I think you're right. 

 

Right now we don't know what we have in the room and the people we have are cost controlled. If even one of Shakir/MVS/Claypool/Hollins/Hamler/Shorter shows flashes of being a legit WR1, and one a decent complement added to Kincaid, Samuel and Cook you have a decent slew or skill players.

 

If not, Aiyuk is a lot easier to fit on the books and likely costs less draft capital if the Niners are looking to move on

 

 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

And much like the Happydays example the ones they consider applicable are the ones they want/think are going to happen.

 

Keeping the WR room as it is today is not what I want. I'm one of the biggest proponents on here of investing at the position. It is just what the current construction of the room tells us will happen.

 

Samuel - lock

Coleman - lock

Shakir - lock

MVS - guaranteed money which means lock

Hollins - guaranteed money which means lock

 

Those five are on the roster unless MVS or Hollins have an awful camp like what happened with OJ Howard a couple years ago. Other than him, every player Beane has given guaranteed money to has made the team.

 

That leaves one WR spot open on the roster. I'm sorry but they are not reserving that spot for a new WR. They wouldn't bother having guys like Claypool and Hamler at camp if a trade was pending. Or they wouldn't have signed MVS to guaranteed money.

 

I'm not happy about the plan but you have to really stretch to have all of these moves make sense in the context of another big addition coming.

 

Edited May 29 by HappyDays

[Bills Fan in MD]

Are they actually set on kickoff and punt returns?   I wouldn't mind picking up a veteran returner who can also provide depth at CB or WR.

[ColoradoBills]

Post June 1st cap space after you deduct to replace Tre's spot in the Top 51, sign the rookies, keep the $4M minimum for PS, that

leaves Beane with about $5M in true cap space.  He will want a minimum of $3M for IR replacements/etc.

 

Leaves him $2M-$3M that he could use to sign a decent FA (not a WR) who wants to come to Buffalo on a one-year deal.

I got to think he's looking on defense for that type of FA.

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

My question is who do you consider the Bills best WR heading into the season?  Not X or WR1, just the on-paper best WR the Bills have going into 2024.

 

I can understand your apprehension in answering this question, because it doesn't bode well for Beane at this time. 

 

My point in saying Beaneologist is when I bring up actions that I consider signs, people respond with words from Beane.  And those words are selected from a vast pool.  And much like the Happydays example the ones they consider applicable are the ones they want/think are going to happen.

 

It's not "apprehension". It's a matter of it could be any of a number of 4 different WR's. All of them have the potential to be the #1 WR for this team. Did anyone have on their bingo card that down the stretch and in the playoffs that the passing game would run through Khalil Shakir and Dalton Kincaid? And to use the example of the LA Rams - did anyone have Puka Nacua, a 5th Round Rookie, putting up 1500 yards?

 

You discount Keon Coleman and his potential. You obviously weren't a fan of him in the Draft process. But that doesn't mean he can't be good. Beane thinks he can be and that he is. You called him WR8 of the Draft. Sure, that's where he was selected. But if Beane viewed him as any worse than WR5, he wouldn't have traded down with KC and again with Carolina. He did that because he felt that after Thomas was taken by Jacksonville, the next group of 3-4 WR's were all on the same level. It's been alluded to that he would have selected Coleman at 28 as WR5 if he hadn't moved down. It's been outright said he was going to take him at 32 before Carolina called him and he knew it was for Legette. Coleman reminds me an awful lot of the Josh pick around here. He wasn't the guy for posters. But we were wrong. Much like Allen, there is cons to Coleman as a prospect. But that doesn't mean there aren't pros. Coleman could be the Top 10 WR you're thirsting for. We won't know until he is given the opportunity to show it. But it seems you don't want to even give that a chance in Year 1.

 

We drafted Dalton Kincaid in Round 1 last year. And as a Rookie, he exceeded expectations down the stretch. So the team wants to give him more opportunities and hopes growth continues in Year 2, as it's pretty much expected that he will. He IS a WR first and foremost. He barely lines up as a TE, regardless of his title. He's a Travis Kelce clone. I'm not saying he is Travis Kelce or that he will become that. But i'm also not saying he doesn't have the talent level and potential to at least be close to that level either. He was a prime investment for us. If you take a WR in Round 1, you showcase him.  To see him grow and evaluate what he is/what he can become - he needs to be giving a prime role in this offense, the same as Coleman. This room provides him with that. The addition of the kind of guy you're (somehow) expecting, would limit that kind of role.

 

The same goes for Khalil Shakir. He's a guy that burst onto the scene in Year 2. No one expected the kind of player he was for us at the end of the year. I've listened to analysts say all offseason "I LOVE Khali Shakir" and he's been pegged as a potential future superstar, maybe as early as this year. Much like I discussed with Kincaid before him, how could you not increase his role and opportunities following his 2nd year? It'd be borderline malpractice to do that with either of them as they are continuing to develop. Either one of them could be the Superstar #1 you say we don't have.

 

Then there's Curtis Samuel. A guy who has produced at a high level for a number of years, playing with QB's nowhere near on the level of Josh Allen. He was signed to a 3 year, 24 million dollar contract - with 15m in guaranteed money. This kind of investment denotes a decent role in this offense. 

 

Again, to add another WR of this level would be to push one of these 4 to 5th in targets on the team and a minimal role. There's only so many balls to go around. For example, 5th in targets for this team last year was a total of 45 targets all year. One of these guys would be denoted to an average of 2 and a half targets total per game. None of these players should be or will be relegated to such a role.

 

You have an obsession with how things look "on paper". But the Super Bowl Champion "on paper" before the year is WAY more often than not the real Super Bowl Champion. Yes, KC had a top 10 player in Travis Kelce. But what was their core beyond him? MVS, Mecole Hardman, Rashee Rice, and Skyy Moore. While not having the established, sure fire Top 10 WR they had - as a core beyond it, i'd take the guys we have (including MVS) over that. And I do believe that odds are more likely than not that 1 out of the field of 4 of Keon Coleman, Dalton Kincaid, Khalil Shakir, or Curtis Samuel will be able to fill the #1 role at a decent to high level. They all carry the potential to do so.

 

You seem to look at things as though if you're not eating at an established 5-star Michelin restaurant, you're eating garbage. Would I have preferred we had a more sure fire thing going into this year? Yes, I would have. But he's built this room in his vision of spreading the ball around, not having a Diggs like player that Allen feels he needs to target X number of times to keep him happy, and evaluating the growth of his investments. This room is not the garbage you portray it to be. There is talent there. But we need to see it grow. And that means giving them the opportunities to do so.

 

He's betting on potential and development over established stars. You obviously disagree with this course of action, but that is *clearly* the course.

 

Like it or not, and it's fair to not, the WR Room is set. We only kept 5 WR's last season (in large part because Kincaid is a WR) and we have 5 WR's that are locks. The likelihood of what you not only hope for, but expect/say will happen, is as likely as it was for us to move up in the Top 10 of the Draft. It's just like last season. It's fair to say you feel he hasn't done enough. But what he has done (just like Harty and Sherfield last year) IS done. And those guys aren't going anywhere.

Edited May 30 by BillsFanForever19