What to do with the post June $10 M that will be available

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't listen intently to Beane, he says a lot of things and people may need to give him a break.  Will you really say he was lying if the Bills trade for a WR?  No, you will go back and look at everything he said from a different angle and realize there was more than one way to look at it.  Just like many did when they surprisingly brought in Von or surprisingly let Diggs go.

 

Nobody said things cant change...but there is a difference of "expecting" the less likely and just "wanting" or "wishing" for it. 

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

Keon is not intended to be the Bills WR1 in his rookie year - that's crazy talk.  They traded down twice before taking him for Pete's sake.  A much better plan would be for Keon to split time with C Samuel and eventually take the role over - opposite a top tier WR.

 

Not sure how you can say that...I mean it's already been confirmed he will play the X WR1 role for this team, and this year.  And not just by Beane either.  Trading down has nothing to do what role he was drafted to be.  They already said there were multiple guys they felt good about when they made the trade down...the trade down was literally Beane's plan coming into the draft to pick up a 3rd which he both coveted and got.  That move is in no way the indication of what role they perceive the player drafted to be, and I am not sure how one can even draw that conclusion.  

 

Not only is Samuel not playing the X WR1 role, he may not even out snap Shakir who Beane, McD, Allen, Palmer, Moulds, and others have all been gushing about.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

Reasons I now expect a trade for a WR are the following:

 1.  I was of the opinion for several months of this "Beane is a great GM, a great GM would never have their top WR be C Samuel during a year in Josh's prime".  With that in mind I was rooting against trading up for one of the big three in the draft,

 

So it's really about they didn't draft the WR1 you wanted so you are assuming the WR1 they did draft in Keon is somehow not going to play WR1 for us.

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

2.  No large FA WR acquisition - I didn't want one of the more expensive mediocre FA WRs, keeping in mind number 1 above of course.

 

There were no large FA WR's out there that made sense for the Bills after Diggs was traded.  We took on a $31M dead cap hit moving Diggs this year.  It was always going to be done through the draft to keep the cap hit down because $31M was also already tied up in the "WR1" position this season.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

3.  Only took one WR in the loaded class.  I was hoping for just one, keeps a spot open without infringing on Shakir development.  The one taken (Coleman) was never intended to be Diggs replacement - see above, he is taking the G Davis role over with C Samuel.  Once again this is great in conjunction with number 1 above - otherwise what are they doing?

 

Beane didn't set out to "replace" Diggs and Davis.  That is where a lot of you are just backwards on the WR situation.  They didn't go out and try and find a Davis and Diggs clone.  He went out and looked to build a diverse room with size, hands, route running, toughness, etc.  

 

When they selected Keon, it was to come in and compete to be our WR1.  And thus far, he has done nothing but impress on and off the field to everyone around him.  Beane, McD, Allen, Brady, etc have all publicly stated he is playing the X, the WR1 role on this team.  Now...if he goes out and stinks up camp or preseason and leaves doubt he can handle the role, then sure, Beane may change course and rethink the situation.  But today, he is here to be the WR1, they have made that pretty clear.

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

4.  Beane let Diggs go - I feel he did so with a plan in place, he wasn't goaded into it.  No GM's plan is to replace Diggs with C Samuel and a rookie.

 

Yeah, the plan was to draft his replacement...which he did.

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

5.  Josh restructure and Tre money, gives available funding for just such a move.  We all somewhat guess on the specifics but I trust Beane knows the details.

 

No doubt, Beane left some ammo in the chamber if needed.  Every good GM would, you never know what may come up.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

6.  Draft capital - extra 2nd and extra 4th

 

What does that have to do with anything?  That capital has less value right now than it will after the season.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

7.  Incredibly young, inexpensive, and cap friendly offensive playmakers for 2024 + 2025.  No more money needed on O for a couple of years.  People say we would be cramped capwise - who cares everyone on offense is accounted for through 2025.

 

This just points further to the likeliness of doing so this year (when we have $31M dead cap on Diggs alone) makes less sense and why a move in the future makes more sense.  Again, something Beane has also stated.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

8.  Recent strategy has been go cheap in RB room for investment in WR1.  They continued to go even cheaper in RB room with Davis as RB2.  The strategy was solid and there should be no regrets so far.  The idea that the Bills will adopt a new strategy and go with JAGs at RB and WR blows me away.

 

JAGs at RB?  You mean Cook who just put up over 1200 yards and had a bunch more yards and receptions on top of that?  And that was with Brady only being here the final 7 games.  Davis isn't a JAG either...he is a rookie, many had as one of the better RBs in the draft (I had him 3rd on my board).  So not sure how we have JAGS at RB...and sorry, Keon is not a JAG either...he is a rookie.  For you to declare a guy who was not only taken in the first 33 picks, but had the Pats trying to move up into the first to get him as a JAG before taking his first NFL snap is just ridiculous.  He may prove to be a JAG...but he also may prove to be a top 10 WR over his career.  He is a rookie...nobody knows what he is.  

 

Kincaid put up 81 receptions as a rookie...so he is a JAG too?  You know he is a receiving weapon for Allen too right?  Shakir led the NFL in YPT, Catch rate, and was a YAC machine to the point his nickname by many is Deebo Lite.  And that was again, with Brady only being here 7 games last year and the playoffs...same stretch where Shakir led the team in receiving.

 

That is a lot of young talent to just blatantly label "JAGS"...You and I have very different definitions of JAGS.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

9.  Took K Coleman over McConkey - if they needed/wanted pro-ready McConkey seemed like the choice.

 

And no disrespect, but what qualifications do you have to make that determination for this roster over Beane?  That was your opinion based on some highlight films you watched, not on a season long study, interviews, etc of these players or from the perspective of what Beane wanted to add to our locker room.

 

FWIW, I was a big McConkey guy too...I had him as WR5 on my board and Keon as WR6.  But fit wise, I thought Keon was a better fit for what the Bills needed in their WR room over McConkey. 

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

10.  Without a WR1 the need will be there again next year.  Prices are headed up, J Jeff and J Chase coming up.  Do it now and save.

 

Mainly the reason I expect it though, is all these moves are what I would have done, and I would be bringing in a trade for a top tier WR.  All these moves I was rejoicing in would have to be re-evaluated.  Without the trade for a WR it looks like a litany of errors out of Beane, not what I would expect.

 

I understand I'm in the minority.  But "literally 0% chance" is a little harsh.

 

 

 

Not if Keon proves to lock down the WR1 role...and there in lies the issue.  You have conclusively condemned Keon's career to be no better than a WR2...so much so, that you can't even accept that he will even play the WR1 role this season despite all his coaches and GM saying he will.  And look, we don't know the future, Keon could be best as a WR2 or even a total bust in general...or he could be the next DeAndre Hopkins as well.  Thats the thing, its always foolish to decide a rookies fate (good or bad) before he ever steps on a field.  

 

And I am not worried about the contracts of other WR's because I think its more likely Beane would attack the WR position again via the draft, especially with the extra capital we have next year, if the WR room proves to be a problem this year.  

 

End of the day...we had a top 3-5 guy in Diggs for 4 seasons and got past the 2nd round once.  I for one am looking forward to seeing this group together on the field.  

Edited May 28 by Alphadawg7

[BillsFanForever19]

I don't think you're going to see all that much, honestly.

 

We don't have enough money to sign our Draft Picks right now. So that will take out a couple million. You need 2-3 to pay for the Practice Squad for the year. And we'll need to keep 2-3 for in season spending. That cuts into most of it.

 

I think we'll sign a Cornerback. And there's a lot of good ones still left. Douglas was brought in last year to replace Tre. Daequan Hardy was brought in to replace Siran Neal. But we didn't add anyone to replace Dane Jackson yet. And with how often Benford is injured and Elam still being a question mark, I don't see them relying on UDFA's and PS players to replace Jackson - which is where we're currently at.

 

Everyone says DE and WR. But Beane has already made more moves at those positions than players we need to replace. At WR, we lost Stefon Diggs (replaced by Keon Coleman), Gabe Davis (replaced by MVS), Deonte Harty (replaced by Curtis Samuel), and Trent Sherfield (replaced by Mack Hollins). We also added Chase Claypool, K.J. Hamler, and have Justin Shorter debuting off his Redshirt year, after being Drafted in Round 5. We're only keeping 6 max and he's not going to release *all* of the latter list. Or all of the latter list plus one of MVS or Hollins, if we keep only 5 like last season. Which is what adding another WR would take.

 

At Defensive End, we lost Leonard Floyd and Shaq Lawson. We signed Dawuane Smoot (to some guaranteed money), Casey Toohill, and Drafted Javon Solomon. More than that, they re-signed Epenesa to a long term deal with a big pay raise. They wouldn't have brought him back and at the amount they did if they felt he was anything less than DE3 as the floor. They kept Miller, who they have faith will show improvement with an offseason of training and a full year removed from his ACL. Between Epenesa and Miller, one of them is going to start opposite Groot and the other will be DE3. And I don't see them cutting Smoot or Solomon. There's your 5. As it is, guys like Casey Toohill and Kingsley Jonathan are unlikely to make the roster.  

 

It's fine to question whether he should have signed or Drafted someone more prestigious than he did at either position group. But he's made these moves, most of which with roles in mind. He's not going to cut a bunch of players he *just* signed because you think he should have done more than them. Moves like MVS and Smoot wouldn't have been made if he planned on something more.

 

It's just like the Harty and Sherfield situation last year. Many argued he should have done more (and they ended up being right) - but the moves were already made and they weren't going anywhere. Just like most of the 9 moves he decided to make at WR and DE this offseason to replace 7 roster spots. 

Edited May 29 by BillsFanForever19

[Tuco]

3 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Right, they would have something worked out pre-trade.  Certainly there would be a large guarantee and a signing bonus.  The whole thing would be well orchestrated in advance of the trade.

 

It's having the money to handle the initial transfer that makes the June 1st date with the Tre money relevant.  And they may need to do it while they have the full pot of the money available.

 

Not sure I made my point. I was responding to your statement - "For example you need around $15M to bring in an Aiyuk or Metcalf before you can restructure."

 

Aiyuk's cap charge is $14+ million. Once we get the $10+ million for Tre, we will have $12ish million. We don't have to go out and find $3 million more in order to bring in Aiyuk then restructure him. They can agree to the restructure and make it go into effect as soon as the trade is made. So if they agree to a restructure/extension with Aiyuk that comes with a, say, $7 million cap charge for 2024, they can just do the deal, his new $7 million cap charge just goes against our $12+ million. If they have all that in place prior to the trade, they don't have to get up to $15 million just to bring him on then restructure.

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I'm expecting the trade for a WR.  I'm rooting for Metcalf.  Then the restructure of the new WR contract to around a $5M cap hit for 2024.  The remaining $5M is for things as Barley mentioned.  But Barley forgot about the secret double dip Josh restructure.

 

So I think there would be enough to bring back Hyde.  Hyde would be coming back fully realizing his role is to bring Bishop into a gamer.  Hyde would be a great locker room presence, developer, and then insurance.  Hyde would know and accept his role.  Couple spare million on your way to retirement never hurts.

There are restructures that the Bills can still make to add cap space this season, but I don’t see them doing that. They’ve certainly had ample opportunity and have punted. I’ll adjust my expectations when they adjust their strategy. 

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Tuco said:

We don't have to go out and find $3 million more in order to bring in Aiyuk then restructure him. They can agree to the restructure and make it go into effect as soon as the trade is made. 

 

This is factually incorrect.

 

You can't restructure or do a new deal until the player is in house. Until the trade goes through, that's not our contract to touch. For the trade to be approved, the contract has to fit under your salary cap *as is* first. If you can't take on his current deal without going over the cap, the trade will not go through.

 

In another post, you suggested working out a restructure was the reasoning for talking to other teams when seeking a trade. This is also incorrect. They talk to other teams regarding a NEW contract. But, again, that can't be done until AFTER they've acquired their current contract.

 

Now, is it *technically* possible for the player to restructure his deal with his current team before he's traded to make it fit better for us? Yes. But that doesn't happen because if we back out at the 11th hour (as such a restructure would have to be done before the trade is submitted to the league), the team is stuck with him on a contract done in our terms to best fit our books, rather than their own. 

 

You can't say to the league "this is going to put us over, but once he's here we'll make it work". You either have it on hand and it goes through or you don't and it doesn't. Just like any acquisition during the offseason. 

Edited May 29 by BillsFanForever19

[Chandler#81]

Take all TBDers out for Ice Cream!

[DeepPass]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

What happened to Cam Lewis (cb/s) and rookie Hardy? Both are making the team.  
 

The best thing the Bills can do is nothing  with the extra cap.  Because of the youth transition on the roster many positions still look like they need help.  If the kids step up, like Elam at CB or Bishop at S, then the issue goes away.  If they don’t or significant injuries occur, Beane will have a war chest to fix the problem like he did with Douglas last year.  This is one of those times to be patient.  

I like this idea!

[BigDingus]

Save it for inevitable injury replacements & depth, otherwise roll it over.

[harmonkillebrew]

This is probably what they're waiting for to re-sign Hyde.

 

I don't think we add to the WR room after all the mediocre signings of late.

 

But CB depth would be wise

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, Tuco said:

 

Not sure I made my point. I was responding to your statement - "For example you need around $15M to bring in an Aiyuk or Metcalf before you can restructure."

 

Aiyuk's cap charge is $14+ million. Once we get the $10+ million for Tre, we will have $12ish million. We don't have to go out and find $3 million more in order to bring in Aiyuk then restructure him. They can agree to the restructure and make it go into effect as soon as the trade is made. So if they agree to a restructure/extension with Aiyuk that comes with a, say, $7 million cap charge for 2024, they can just do the deal, his new $7 million cap charge just goes against our $12+ million. If they have all that in place prior to the trade, they don't have to get up to $15 million just to bring him on then restructure.

I think as others as pointed out that you do need some capital on hand to do the deal.  It is a little murky (to me at least) exactly what it is, one excerpt said cap hit minus bonus, another article said $13M would be needed on hand for Pitt to get Metcalf.  Pretty clear $14Mish is enough to bring Aiyuk on board. It would take close to $20M to get J Jefferson which would take pulling all the levers for a short period of time.

 

It makes the June 1 date with Tre money coming in exciting.  Because then it should be easy to get the needed amounts for many of these potential WR targets.  And the Bills would probably want to do it when the funds are available before they spend some of it on other things.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Draft picks and edge rusher on a 1 year deal.  Hyde will sign in late October 

They are fine elsewhere 

 

Beane made his bed with the safeties and WRs. Now we just have to see what happens.

[Einstein's Dog]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Nobody said things cant change...but there is a difference of "expecting" the less likely and just "wanting" or "wishing" for it. 

 

 

Not sure how you can say that...I mean it's already been confirmed he will play the X WR1 role for this team, and this year.  And not just by Beane either.  Trading down has nothing to do what role he was drafted to be.  They already said there were multiple guys they felt good about when they made the trade down...the trade down was literally Beane's plan coming into the draft to pick up a 3rd which he both coveted and got.  That move is in no way the indication of what role they perceive the player drafted to be, and I am not sure how one can even draw that conclusion.  

 

Not only is Samuel not playing the X WR1 role, he may not even out snap Shakir who Beane, McD, Allen, Palmer, Moulds, and others have all been gushing about.  

 

 

So it's really about they didn't draft the WR1 you wanted so you are assuming the WR1 they did draft in Keon is somehow not going to play WR1 for us.

 

 

There were no large FA WR's out there that made sense for the Bills after Diggs was traded.  We took on a $31M dead cap hit moving Diggs this year.  It was always going to be done through the draft to keep the cap hit down because $31M was also already tied up in the "WR1" position this season.  

 

 

Beane didn't set out to "replace" Diggs and Davis.  That is where a lot of you are just backwards on the WR situation.  They didn't go out and try and find a Davis and Diggs clone.  He went out and looked to build a diverse room with size, hands, route running, toughness, etc.  

 

When they selected Keon, it was to come in and compete to be our WR1.  And thus far, he has done nothing but impress on and off the field to everyone around him.  Beane, McD, Allen, Brady, etc have all publicly stated he is playing the X, the WR1 role on this team.  Now...if he goes out and stinks up camp or preseason and leaves doubt he can handle the role, then sure, Beane may change course and rethink the situation.  But today, he is here to be the WR1, they have made that pretty clear.

 

 

Yeah, the plan was to draft his replacement...which he did.

 

 

No doubt, Beane left some ammo in the chamber if needed.  Every good GM would, you never know what may come up.  

 

 

What does that have to do with anything?  That capital has less value right now than it will after the season.  

 

 

This just points further to the likeliness of doing so this year (when we have $31M dead cap on Diggs alone) makes less sense and why a move in the future makes more sense.  Again, something Beane has also stated.  

 

 

JAGs at RB?  You mean Cook who just put up over 1200 yards and had a bunch more yards and receptions on top of that?  And that was with Brady only being here the final 7 games.  Davis isn't a JAG either...he is a rookie, many had as one of the better RBs in the draft (I had him 3rd on my board).  So not sure how we have JAGS at RB...and sorry, Keon is not a JAG either...he is a rookie.  For you to declare a guy who was not only taken in the first 33 picks, but had the Pats trying to move up into the first to get him as a JAG before taking his first NFL snap is just ridiculous.  He may prove to be a JAG...but he also may prove to be a top 10 WR over his career.  He is a rookie...nobody knows what he is.  

 

Kincaid put up 81 receptions as a rookie...so he is a JAG too?  You know he is a receiving weapon for Allen too right?  Shakir led the NFL in YPT, Catch rate, and was a YAC machine to the point his nickname by many is Deebo Lite.  And that was again, with Brady only being here 7 games last year and the playoffs...same stretch where Shakir led the team in receiving.

 

That is a lot of young talent to just blatantly label "JAGS"...You and I have very different definitions of JAGS.  

 

 

And no disrespect, but what qualifications do you have to make that determination for this roster over Beane?  That was your opinion based on some highlight films you watched, not on a season long study, interviews, etc of these players or from the perspective of what Beane wanted to add to our locker room.

 

FWIW, I was a big McConkey guy too...I had him as WR5 on my board and Keon as WR6.  But fit wise, I thought Keon was a better fit for what the Bills needed in their WR room over McConkey. 

 

 

Not if Keon proves to lock down the WR1 role...and there in lies the issue.  You have conclusively condemned Keon's career to be no better than a WR2...so much so, that you can't even accept that he will even play the WR1 role this season despite all his coaches and GM saying he will.  And look, we don't know the future, Keon could be best as a WR2 or even a total bust in general...or he could be the next DeAndre Hopkins as well.  Thats the thing, its always foolish to decide a rookies fate (good or bad) before he ever steps on a field.  

 

And I am not worried about the contracts of other WR's because I think its more likely Beane would attack the WR position again via the draft, especially with the extra capital we have next year, if the WR room proves to be a problem this year.  

 

End of the day...we had a top 3-5 guy in Diggs for 4 seasons and got past the 2nd round once.  I for one am looking forward to seeing this group together on the field.  

Appreciate your thoughts.  A couple of differences:

 

1.  You expect much more from K Coleman than I do.  You think in his rookie year he is slated for WR1 duty.  I think a lower bar is more reasonable.  Kincaid was a first round selection and the first TE taken, and he needed developmental time.  K Coleman is a second round pick and the 8th WR taken.  K Coleman is also young and relatively inexperienced.  A thoughtful plan seems to me to be having K Coleman's role this year to be expanding throughout the season, much the way Kincaid's went.

 

I also don't see why you would think K Coleman is more of a fit than McConkey if the plan was to have them start from day 1.  It seemed by most that McConkey was more pro-ready.  I also don't see how you can say it's confirmed that Coleman is WR1, there's a long way to go before camp.

 

2.  Let me rephrase - the RB room is incredibly inexpensive.  They have a late 2nd rounder, a 4th rounder, and some inexpensive vets.  The money should go somewhere and IMO a WR would make the strategy a success.
 

[BillsFanForever19]

45 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Appreciate your thoughts.  A couple of differences:

 

1.  You expect much more from K Coleman than I do.  You think in his rookie year he is slated for WR1 duty.  I think a lower bar is more reasonable.  Kincaid was a first round selection and the first TE taken, and he needed developmental time.  K Coleman is a second round pick and the 8th WR taken.  K Coleman is also young and relatively inexperienced.  A thoughtful plan seems to me to be having K Coleman's role this year to be expanding throughout the season, much the way Kincaid's went.

 

I also don't see why you would think K Coleman is more of a fit than McConkey if the plan was to have them start from day 1.  It seemed by most that McConkey was more pro-ready.  I also don't see how you can say it's confirmed that Coleman is WR1, there's a long way to go before camp.

 

2.  Let me rephrase - the RB room is incredibly inexpensive.  They have a late 2nd rounder, a 4th rounder, and some inexpensive vets.  The money should go somewhere and IMO a WR would make the strategy a success.
 

 

Beane has said on multiple occasions that Keon Coleman IS the X on this team. That was Diggs' role. Like it or not, that's what he is this year. Like a Rookie starting QB, I'm sure there will be some growing pains. But he has said that's what he is already and what he's been brought here to be.

 

Even if there is some growing pains, down the stretch, the passing game ran through Dalton Kincaid and Khalil Shakir - with Diggs (who Coleman is replacing) and Davis providing little to nothing. They're still here and they have good reason to believe they'll be even better in Year 2 and Year 3. 

 

Then they also brought in Curtis Samuel, to compliment Kincaid, Shakir, and Coleman. All of these players are expected to play big roles. To add another would be to have one of those 4 players play a minimal role with minimal snaps. I don't see that happening.

Edited May 29 by BillsFanForever19

[harmonkillebrew]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I don't think you're going to see all that much, honestly.

 

We don't have enough money to sign our Draft Picks right now. So that will take out a couple million. You need 2-3 to pay for the Practice Squad for the year. And we'll need to keep 2-3 for in season spending. That cuts into most of it.

 

I think we'll sign a Cornerback. And there's a lot of good ones still left. Douglas was brought in last year to replace Tre. Daequan Hardy was brought in to replace Siran Neal. But we didn't add anyone to replace Dane Jackson yet. And with how often Benford is injured and Elam still being a question mark, I don't see them relying on UDFA's and PS players to replace Jackson - which is where we're currently at.

 

Everyone says DE and WR. But Beane has already made more moves at those positions than players we need to replace. At WR, we lost Stefon Diggs (replaced by Keon Coleman), Gabe Davis (replaced by MVS), Deonte Harty (replaced by Curtis Samuel), and Trent Sherfield (replaced by Mack Hollins). We also added Chase Claypool, K.J. Hamler, and have Justin Shorter debuting off his Redshirt year, after being Drafted in Round 5. We're only keeping 6 max and he's not going to release *all* of the latter list. Or all of the latter list plus one of MVS or Hollins, if we keep only 5 like last season.

 

At Defensive End, we lost Leonard Floyd and Shaq Lawson. We signed Dawuane Smoot (to some guaranteed money), Casey Toohill, and Drafted Javon Solomon. More than that, they re-signed Epenesa to a long term deal with a big pay raise. They wouldn't have brought him back and at the amount they did if they felt he was anything less than DE3 as the floor. They kept Miller, who they have faith will show improvement with an offseason of training and a full year removed from his ACL. Between Epenesa and Miller, one of them is going to start opposite Groot and the other will be DE3. And I don't see them cutting Smoot or Solomon. There's your 5. As it is, guys like Casey Toohill and Kingsley Jonathan are unlikely to make the roster.  

 

It's fine to question whether he should have signed or Drafted someone more prestigious than he did at either position group. But he's made these moves, most of which with roles in mind. He's not going to cut a bunch of them he just signed because you think he should have done more. Moves like MVS and Smoot wouldn't have been made if he planned on something more. It's like Harty and Sherfield last year. You could argue he should have done more (and you would have been right) - but the moves were already made and they weren't going anywhere. Just like most of the 9 moves he decided to make at WR and DE this offseason to replace 7 roster spots.

He could easily still cut bait on Claypool, Hollins, MVS, Hamler and others, just like he should have on Sheffield and Harty and gotten someone who could make a real difference. But you're right, he won't.

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

There are restructures that the Bills can still make to add cap space this season, but I don’t see them doing that. They’ve certainly had ample opportunity and have punted. I’ll adjust my expectations when they adjust their strategy. 

My hope is they passed on the lesser options to wait for this June 1st opportunity and go big!

 

I think it has been their strategy for some time to have an inexpensive RB room so they can pay their top WR.  They are just switching who the top WR is for the next few years.

[BarleyNY]

15 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

My hope is they passed on the lesser options to wait for this June 1st opportunity and go big!

 

I think it has been their strategy for some time to have an inexpensive RB room so they can pay their top WR.  They are just switching who the top WR is for the next few years.

We should know soon, but at this point I’d be very surprised if they make a big move this offseason. 

[Einstein's Dog]

28 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Beane has said on multiple occasions that Keon Coleman IS the X on this team. That was Diggs' role. Like it or not, that's what he is this year. Like a Rookie starting QB, I'm sure there will be some growing pains. But he has said that's what he is already and what he's been brought here to be.

 

Even if there is some growing pains, down the stretch, the passing game ran through Dalton Kincaid and Khalil Shakir - with Diggs and Davis providing little to nothing. They're still here and they have good reason to believe they'll be even better in Year 2 and Year 3. 

 

Then they also brought in Curtis Samuel, to compliment Kincaid, Shakir, and Coleman. All of these players are expected to play big roles. To add another would be to have one of those 4 players play a minimal role with minimal snaps. I don't see that happening.

All our resident Beanologists and their interpretations of the quotes according to Beane.  What happened to "Don't expect Coleman to be the starter week 1" or "I would never do a rebuild as long as I have Josh Allen as my QB".  With so many Beane quotes, I'm glad we have people who can definitively interpret and explain the contradictions that arise.

 

Who do you consider the top WR on the Bills roster right now for the 2024 season?

 

Because it really wouldn't change my overall mantra from before, which was: "Beane is a great GM, a great GM would never have C Samuel as his top WR" to something like "Beane is a great GM, a great GM would never count on a second round WR, 8th WR taken, as his expected top WR" - which should really bring home why I don't think he is done.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Appreciate your thoughts.  A couple of differences:

 

1.  You expect much more from K Coleman than I do.  You think in his rookie year he is slated for WR1 duty.  I think a lower bar is more reasonable.  Kincaid was a first round selection and the first TE taken, and he needed developmental time.  K Coleman is a second round pick and the 8th WR taken.  K Coleman is also young and relatively inexperienced.  A thoughtful plan seems to me to be having K Coleman's role this year to be expanding throughout the season, much the way Kincaid's went.

 

Good reply, here are my thoughts:

 

I dont think its that I expect more from Keon than you do to be honest, I think its more that I don't think a 1300-1400+ yard WR1 is as critical as you do.  I think a diverse WR core who are smart, have reliable hands, are tough, and can run good routes is also a dangerous WR room.  Based on things you have said now and in the past, I feel like you define a WR1 more by season totals instead of their actual role on the field.  

 

For example, when I say Keon is our WR1 and will play that role this year, I am not saying I expect him to put up 1300+ yards this year as a rookie.  He can be a WR1 and still put up 900 to 1100 yards this year and be very effective in his role.  This team is being built not to lean on one guy like it did Diggs and when Diggs was taken out the offense struggled.  Its being built so that any guy out there can make the play on any given play and you can't just key on one guy to shut this offense down like in years past.  

 

Do I think Keon has 1300+ yard potential...yes I do.  But I am not expecting him to this season as a rookie, nor do I think we need him to.  

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

I also don't see why you would think K Coleman is more of a fit than McConkey if the plan was to have them start from day 1.  It seemed by most that McConkey was more pro-ready.  I also don't see how you can say it's confirmed that Coleman is WR1, there's a long way to go before camp.

 

I won't knock McConkey, I think he is a very good prospect and has a bright future and would have been excited if we drafted him too.  But I think Keon's unique size, catch radius, and rare athleticism for his size was just a better fit for our group.  We needed someone who can be open even when not open, who is a dawg, and give Allen a big reliable target, especially in the cold weather games and playoff games.

 

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

2.  Let me rephrase - the RB room is incredibly inexpensive.  They have a late 2nd rounder, a 4th rounder, and some inexpensive vets.  The money should go somewhere and IMO a WR would make the strategy a success.
 

 

Gotcha...well the money is actually going somewhere, and it is WR as we have a $31M cap hit for Diggs this year.  So for me, I think Beane is going to see how this group does this year, how Keon plays, and then reassess next season.  If this season shows we need to address WR with a big move, then next year Beane will have the cap flexibility and ammo to do so if he feels that is what is best for the team. 

 

 

[Tuco]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

This is factually incorrect.

 

You can't restructure or do a new deal until the player is in house. Until the trade goes through, that's not our contract to touch. For the trade to be approved, the contract has to fit under your salary cap *as is* first. If you can't take on his current deal without going over the cap, the trade will not go through.

 

In another post, you suggested working out a restructure was the reasoning for talking to other teams when seeking a trade. This is also incorrect. They talk to other teams regarding a NEW contract. But, again, that can't be done until AFTER they've acquired their current contract.

 

Now, is it *technically* possible for the player to restructure his deal with his current team before he's traded to make it fit better for us? Yes. But that doesn't happen because if we back out at the 11th hour (as such a restructure would have to be done before the trade is submitted to the league), the team is stuck with him on a contract done in our terms to best fit our books, rather than their own. 

 

You can't say to the league "this is going to put us over, but once he's here we'll make it work". You either have it on hand and it goes through or you don't and it doesn't. Just like any acquisition during the offseason. 

Yup. Okay.

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Nobody said things cant change...but there is a difference of "expecting" the less likely and just "wanting" or "wishing" for it. 

 

 

Not sure how you can say that...I mean it's already been confirmed he will play the X WR1 role for this team, and this year.  And not just by Beane either.  Trading down has nothing to do what role he was drafted to be.  They already said there were multiple guys they felt good about when they made the trade down...the trade down was literally Beane's plan coming into the draft to pick up a 3rd which he both coveted and got.  That move is in no way the indication of what role they perceive the player drafted to be, and I am not sure how one can even draw that conclusion.  

 

Not only is Samuel not playing the X WR1 role, he may not even out snap Shakir who Beane, McD, Allen, Palmer, Moulds, and others have all been gushing about.  

 

 

So it's really about they didn't draft the WR1 you wanted so you are assuming the WR1 they did draft in Keon is somehow not going to play WR1 for us.

 

 

There were no large FA WR's out there that made sense for the Bills after Diggs was traded.  We took on a $31M dead cap hit moving Diggs this year.  It was always going to be done through the draft to keep the cap hit down because $31M was also already tied up in the "WR1" position this season.  

 

 

Beane didn't set out to "replace" Diggs and Davis.  That is where a lot of you are just backwards on the WR situation.  They didn't go out and try and find a Davis and Diggs clone.  He went out and looked to build a diverse room with size, hands, route running, toughness, etc.  

 

When they selected Keon, it was to come in and compete to be our WR1.  And thus far, he has done nothing but impress on and off the field to everyone around him.  Beane, McD, Allen, Brady, etc have all publicly stated he is playing the X, the WR1 role on this team.  Now...if he goes out and stinks up camp or preseason and leaves doubt he can handle the role, then sure, Beane may change course and rethink the situation.  But today, he is here to be the WR1, they have made that pretty clear.

 

 

Yeah, the plan was to draft his replacement...which he did.

 

 

No doubt, Beane left some ammo in the chamber if needed.  Every good GM would, you never know what may come up.  

 

 

What does that have to do with anything?  That capital has less value right now than it will after the season.  

 

 

This just points further to the likeliness of doing so this year (when we have $31M dead cap on Diggs alone) makes less sense and why a move in the future makes more sense.  Again, something Beane has also stated.  

 

 

JAGs at RB?  You mean Cook who just put up over 1200 yards and had a bunch more yards and receptions on top of that?  And that was with Brady only being here the final 7 games.  Davis isn't a JAG either...he is a rookie, many had as one of the better RBs in the draft (I had him 3rd on my board).  So not sure how we have JAGS at RB...and sorry, Keon is not a JAG either...he is a rookie.  For you to declare a guy who was not only taken in the first 33 picks, but had the Pats trying to move up into the first to get him as a JAG before taking his first NFL snap is just ridiculous.  He may prove to be a JAG...but he also may prove to be a top 10 WR over his career.  He is a rookie...nobody knows what he is.  

 

Kincaid put up 81 receptions as a rookie...so he is a JAG too?  You know he is a receiving weapon for Allen too right?  Shakir led the NFL in YPT, Catch rate, and was a YAC machine to the point his nickname by many is Deebo Lite.  And that was again, with Brady only being here 7 games last year and the playoffs...same stretch where Shakir led the team in receiving.

 

That is a lot of young talent to just blatantly label "JAGS"...You and I have very different definitions of JAGS.  

 

 

And no disrespect, but what qualifications do you have to make that determination for this roster over Beane?  That was your opinion based on some highlight films you watched, not on a season long study, interviews, etc of these players or from the perspective of what Beane wanted to add to our locker room.

 

FWIW, I was a big McConkey guy too...I had him as WR5 on my board and Keon as WR6.  But fit wise, I thought Keon was a better fit for what the Bills needed in their WR room over McConkey. 

 

 

Not if Keon proves to lock down the WR1 role...and there in lies the issue.  You have conclusively condemned Keon's career to be no better than a WR2...so much so, that you can't even accept that he will even play the WR1 role this season despite all his coaches and GM saying he will.  And look, we don't know the future, Keon could be best as a WR2 or even a total bust in general...or he could be the next DeAndre Hopkins as well.  Thats the thing, its always foolish to decide a rookies fate (good or bad) before he ever steps on a field.  

 

And I am not worried about the contracts of other WR's because I think its more likely Beane would attack the WR position again via the draft, especially with the extra capital we have next year, if the WR room proves to be a problem this year.  

 

End of the day...we had a top 3-5 guy in Diggs for 4 seasons and got past the 2nd round once.  I for one am looking forward to seeing this group together on the field.  

Dawg / Dog fight