Man I hate the fact Von Miller is on this team.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Injury or not Von hasn’t produced to his overall cap number to date. 
 

Discussing whether or not he will be worth $15M this year seems valid. 
 

Even if he has a $15M season, it is all but guaranteed that he won’t outproduce his total career cap number in Buffalo. 

 

If Von has a $15M season, it's likely that the Bills play for the Lombardi in February, and if they win that, then will you still care about "his total career cap number in Buffalo"? 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think he is.  If he weren't, he wouldn't have taken a pay cut that included giving back some of his guaranteed money and was heavily loaded with incentives.

 

That, to me, says a player who still believes in himself and believes he can get it done, and wants to give it a try.

Agreed and should be noted by anyone who doubts he has a few things to prove.

Motivated ? I sincerely think so

Able ? no idea. But he IS/Was and Elite athlete of rare skills and ability.

 

mCbeane should not have made that deal though. full stop.

 

Was not happy and still not

 But

I remain hopeful he would still contribute , on and off the Field for the Bills (mentoring the youth ) (not GM bs)

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

There is a cost to the team, cap dollars. And there is a production on the field. When you pay a guy $25M per the operating window for value is much smaller compared to a guy like Nico Collins early in his career. 
 

 

Beane is supposed to be Nostradamus then and should have foreseen the ACL tear.  If I follow your logic correctly any contract where a player gets hurt is a mistake made by the GM.

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Really don't get the defensiveness over a guy who played effectively 3/4ths of a season for the Bills. Don't @ me about last year, either, team would have been better with him on IR

 

Irony

 

Yes.

 

In many different ways.

 

Fantastic question. Would you be if you were being paid tens of millions of dollars to basically do nothing

 

 

He could be the most expensive cheerleader in the history of the NFL

Good not everyone here is completely blinkered

 

Is every contract where a guy gets a serious injury the fault of a GM?  

[Success]

I certainly hope this is worthy of a bump at some point mid-season.

 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Beane is supposed to be Nostradamus then and should have foreseen the ACL tear.  If I follow your logic correctly any contract where a player gets hurt is a mistake made by the GM.

Is every contract where a guy gets a serious injury the fault of a GM?  

Signing an old (33 YO) pass rusher with one bad knee $20M per for 6 years was a risk. That isn’t an “any player who gets hurt” scenario. GM’s take calculated risks sometimes. When they work they’re hero’s when they don’t they get criticized. Just like anything else. 
 

So far the long term and expensive bet on an old NFL player has not planned out. Long term injury was injury was always a higher risk for Von because of his age. And any long term injury would certainly be more difficult for him than younger players. 
 

For example Nico Collins just got a shiny new contract. Say he breaks his leg and ends his career in the preseason. That is unfortunate. Signing Leonard Floyd for 6 years and him getting a big time injury is a serious risk. 
 

I am not furious with Beane for taking a swing at pass rusher. But I’m also not going to sit here and pretend like it’s all just an unfortunate whoopsie either. 
 

(The restructure wasn’t a risk. That was dumb.)

[SinceThe70s]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

Signing an old (33 YO) pass rusher with one bad knee $20M per for 6 years was a risk. That isn’t an “any player who gets hurt” scenario. GM’s take calculated risks sometimes. When they work they’re hero’s when they don’t they get criticized. Just like anything else. 
 

So far the long term and expensive bet on an old NFL player has not planned out. Long term injury was injury was always a higher risk for Von because of his age. And any long term injury would certainly be more difficult for him than younger players. 
 

For example Nico Collins just got a shiny new contract. Say he breaks his leg and ends his career in the preseason. That is unfortunate. Signing Leonard Floyd for 6 years and him getting a big time injury is a serious risk. 
 

I am not furious with Beane for taking a swing at pass rusher. But I’m also not going to sit here and pretend like it’s all just an unfortunate whoopsie either. 
 

(The restructure wasn’t a risk. That was dumb.)

 

IMO yours is a reasonable take. But also completely at odds with the "What an atrocious contract that was. Should have been a fireable offense".  Which is how this thread started. Do you agree with the quoted? Should Beane have been fired the day after he signed Von?

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Beane is supposed to be Nostradamus then and should have foreseen the ACL tear.  If I follow your logic correctly any contract where a player gets hurt is a mistake made by the GM.

Is every contract where a guy gets a serious injury the fault of a GM?  

 

No, every contract where a guy gets a serious injury is not the fault of the GM.  For example, when the Bills signed Tre' White to a 5 year, $69M contract in 2020 with $55M guaranteed, Tre' was 25 yrs old and coming off 2 pro bowl and an all-pro season.  It made sense.   And, in 4 years, he'd only missed 3 games - two of them in which he was held out to rest for the playoffs.  

 

Beane had no way to predict Tre' would tear his ACL on Thanksgiving, not be ready until the following Thanksgiving and struggle, then play only 4 games where he looked like himself before tearing his Achilles.

 

On the other hand, there's the mantra that "Father Time is Undefeated".  When Beane signed Von Miller to a 6 year, $120M contract with $51M guaranteed, Von was 33 years old.  It's the age at which TJ Watt retired!!!!  So it was a pretty high risk contract IMHO. 

 

Of course, if Von Miller had stayed healthy and the Bills had gone to the Superbowl in 2022, no one would care.  Some days you da windshield, some days you da bug.  But he didn't, so here we are, hoping he can show something.

 

[dma0034]

Up until he got hurt the was the Bills best player (even over Josh imo) and then it takes over a year to recover (look at Tre White). If this year he come sout and gets 12-13 sacks no one will be saying anything. It's an injury, it happens. If Allen tears his ACL in a playoff game that would effectively end 2 seasons. Injuries unfortunately happen. It's not like Miller tore his ACL doing something dumb

[Thrivefourfive]

This is such a significant story this preseason. He’s older, but he’s a phenomenal athlete, not some bum. If he really needed that full+ year to get it back, wow. As with the start of the 2022 season, VM40 is a game changer for this team.

 

Of course I want to say “He’s finish!” Because that’s the last thing I saw him do. But it’s a very real possibility that he comes on to play like he did a couple years ago. He ain’t that old. 

[Mango]

42 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

IMO yours is a reasonable take. But also completely at odds with the "What an atrocious contract that was. Should have been a fireable offense".  Which is how this thread started. Do you agree with the quoted? Should Beane have been fired the day after he signed Von?

Oh god no. I don’t agree with that. I may have lost sight of the OP as this whole thing (d)evolved. Ha. 

[SCBills]

Beane essentially signed Von for a 3/60, with a restructure button that made the deal a 4 year commitment or 3 years with some financial pain.  
 

Von was a monster prior to the ACL injury for us.

 

Not one of us leaving SoFi Stadium walked out of there thinking we were anything but Super Bowl bound with Von as the missing piece. 
 

Two years in and the torn ACL renders it a disaster. 
 

Year 3 tbd. 
 

I don’t know.. sometimes you just have bad luck.

 

The Rams do look smart though.. they reportedly offered him the same guaranteed money per year, but at 2 years… not our 3. 

 

 

[QCity]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Is every contract where a guy gets a serious injury the fault of a GM?  

 

Ultimately every contract is the responsibility of the GM, and things like age and injury history have to be taken into account. It's not all just bad luck.

 

Of course this move only was made because even with all the resources spent on the D-Line we couldn't get to the QB in big situations.

 

And this will be the gift that keeps on giving - in a few days get ready to spend some of that freed up cap money on a 1-year deal for a mediocre pass rusher, simply because Von cannot be counted on to make it through 17 games.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

No, every contract where a guy gets a serious injury is not the fault of the GM.  For example, when the Bills signed Tre' White to a 5 year, $69M contract in 2020 with $55M guaranteed, Tre' was 25 yrs old and coming off 2 pro bowl and an all-pro season.  It made sense.   And, in 4 years, he'd only missed 3 games - two of them in which he was held out to rest for the playoffs.  

 

Beane had no way to predict Tre' would tear his ACL on Thanksgiving, not be ready until the following Thanksgiving and struggle, then play only 4 games where he looked like himself before tearing his Achilles.

 

On the other hand, there's the mantra that "Father Time is Undefeated".  When Beane signed Von Miller to a 6 year, $120M contract with $51M guaranteed, Von was 33 years old.  It's the age at which TJ Watt retired!!!!  So it was a pretty high risk contract IMHO. 

 

Of course, if Von Miller had stayed healthy and the Bills had gone to the Superbowl in 2022, no one would care.  Some days you da windshield, some days you da bug.  But he didn't, so here we are, hoping he can show something.

 

The difference between JJ Watt and von Miller... Is one as a 295 lb roided up end whose body has physically given up with dozens of injuries

 

And Von is 250 pound bendy athlete... Who has had some unfortunate injuries 

 

JJ's body was completely broken down... Von has had unlucky lower body injuries 

 

I think there's a difference between back injuries which require surgeries, hernia issues which require surgeries and a host of other problems... Compared to freak acl injuries 

 

I think JJ has significantly more wear and tear on his body then Miller

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

The difference between JJ Watt and von Miller... Is one as a 295 lb roided up end whose body has physically given up with dozens of injuries

 

And Von is 250 pound bendy athlete... Who has had some unfortunate injuries 

 

JJ's body was completely broken down... Von has had unlucky lower body injuries 

 

I think there's a difference between back injuries which require surgeries, hernia issues which require surgeries and a host of other problems... Compared to freak acl injuries 

 

I think JJ has significantly more wear and tear on his body then Miller

 

I wouldn't disagree with the above....but would we agree that as a player ages, no matter how great an athlete he is, the probability of games lost to injury increases and the risk of his performance falling off grows higher?

 

That's really my point - offering what was essentially a 3 or 4 year contract with big guarantees to a 33 year old player was a risk, which Beane took because the 3 1st and 2nd round draft picks he invested at DE weren't cutting it and he thought we were a top pass-rusher away from Championship.

If Beane's risk had paid off because Miller had continued to play at the level he started off 2022, he'd be "genius".

 

Looked at from a roster building/cap management perspective, it's easy to understand what Beane was trying to do and it makes sense looking at the cap allocations of other top teams - most of them who are paying a QB, have some combo of QB, OT, LB/Edge, WR, CB as their top 5 cap allocations.  It's not like the guys Beane allocated cap to have been duds, but when 2 of the 3 top paid players have been IR'd or not playing up to their previous standard, and a 3rd (Diggs) went AWOL the 2nd half of last season, it's hard to compete at the highest levels.

[BurpleBull]

What if he hates that you're on this board?

[Mat68]

Even if he is a shell of himself, if he can help Solomon  become a good pro he would be worth having on the team this year.  Solomon takes a lot from Millers game.  Getting that knowledge first hand could do wonders for him. 

[JerseyBills]

15 hours ago, Mango said:

Signing an old (33 YO) pass rusher with one bad knee $20M per for 6 years was a risk. That isn’t an “any player who gets hurt” scenario. GM’s take calculated risks sometimes. When they work they’re hero’s when they don’t they get criticized. Just like anything else. 
 

So far the long term and expensive bet on an old NFL player has not planned out. Long term injury was injury was always a higher risk for Von because of his age. And any long term injury would certainly be more difficult for him than younger players. 
 

For example Nico Collins just got a shiny new contract. Say he breaks his leg and ends his career in the preseason. That is unfortunate. Signing Leonard Floyd for 6 years and him getting a big time injury is a serious risk. 
 

I am not furious with Beane for taking a swing at pass rusher. But I’m also not going to sit here and pretend like it’s all just an unfortunate whoopsie either. 
 

(The restructure wasn’t a risk. That was dumb.)

We were at that stage where we were a player away from a SB,  pass rusher wise at least when he was signed.

Bills FO and fans felt we were an elite pass rusher away from a SB and we were and after what he put on tape the previous post season,  I don't mind the risk at all

Edited May 30 by JerseyBills

[Mango]

39 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

We were at that stage where we were a player away from a SB,  pass rusher wise at least when he was signed.

Bills FO and fans felt we were an elite pass rusher away from a SB and we were and after what he put on tape the previous post season,  I don't mind the risk at all

 

I generally agree here. I was cautious about the contract out of the gate. Even with the injury, had it all just played out I would have been fine. But the restructure was bad. 

[4thandGoal]

On 5/27/2024 at 12:44 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

What an atrocious contract that was. Should have been a fireable offense, it's lead weights on the ankles when you're trying to swim. Can we REALLY roll the guy out there this year?

 

 

 

I love the move when it happened even with the cost.. It didnt work out so be it.... and he will have a much better year. Injuries happen and thats what did him in. 

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I wouldn't disagree with the above....but would we agree that as a player ages, no matter how great an athlete he is, the probability of games lost to injury increases and the risk of his performance falling off grows higher?

 

That's really my point - offering what was essentially a 3 or 4 year contract with big guarantees to a 33 year old player was a risk, which Beane took because the 3 1st and 2nd round draft picks he invested at DE weren't cutting it and he thought we were a top pass-rusher away from Championship.

If Beane's risk had paid off because Miller had continued to play at the level he started off 2022, he'd be "genius".

 

Looked at from a roster building/cap management perspective, it's easy to understand what Beane was trying to do and it makes sense looking at the cap allocations of other top teams - most of them who are paying a QB, have some combo of QB, OT, LB/Edge, WR, CB as their top 5 cap allocations.  It's not like the guys Beane allocated cap to have been duds, but when 2 of the 3 top paid players have been IR'd or not playing up to their previous standard, and a 3rd (Diggs) went AWOL the 2nd half of last season, it's hard to compete at the highest levels.

Ofc it's a risky deal

 

And yes with age and mileage... The risk factor for injury in the NFL goes up 

 

If it panned out better as you said... Looks like a genius 

 

Now it looks like a flop... But I'm also not willing to write off Hall of Fame von Miller 

 

I can see him getting us 7/8 sacks