SoCal Deek Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 55 minutes ago, Doc said: Fair enough. I just don't believe that they are relying on any rookies, with the possible exception of Coleman, but do believe that probably 2 will start. Are they ‘relying’ on them. No. But this was a draft of need, not luxury. And I’m betting next year will be the same. As I’ve said many times they swung for the fences and missed. Now they need a reboot to get us over the hump and back to the promised land. It’s a process. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 3 hours ago, Doc said: They cut Morse and traded Bates before the draft so that tells me they feel that McGovern is ready to step in at C and Edwards is ready to step in at LG. If VPG can win the starting job and put McGovern back at LG and Edwards as a backup, so much the better. I just want a true competition for the LG and C spots. As for the safeties, Hyde and Poyer were getting long in the tooth and their best days are behind them. The Bills know DBs so I'm not overly concerned. Again if Bishop wins a starting job, so much the better. Now at WR there's some concern. I like Samuel replacing Davis but replacing Diggs will be tough. Although it seems like they'll be going with the philosophy of spreading the ball around. I think it will be a competition at C. No reason it wouldn't be. It's a false narrative that McD won't play rookies. Unfortunately teams rarely are willing to sub out guys on the OL for a drive or two unlike DL. If he doesn't win the job in camp he probably won't get a shot to play this year barring injury. He probably will dress for game day as I don't think there is another backup C on the roster now( correct me if I'm mistaken). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 24 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Are they ‘relying’ on them. No. But this was a draft of need, not luxury. And I’m betting next year will be the same. As I’ve said many times they swung for the fences and missed. Now they need a reboot to get us over the hump and back to the promised land. It’s a process. 😉 The guys who are gone weren't enough to get us over the hump. And it's not a reboot, it's a reload. The Bills are the class of the AFC East until proven otherwise. 3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: I think it will be a competition at C. No reason it wouldn't be. It's a false narrative that McD won't play rookies. Unfortunately teams rarely are willing to sub out guys on the OL for a drive or two unlike DL. If he doesn't win the job in camp he probably won't get a shot to play this year barring injury. He probably will dress for game day as I don't think there is another backup C on the roster now( correct me if I'm mistaken). McD will definitely play rookies. But as I said before though, they cut Morse and traded Bates with the idea of having McGovern playing C, which he is geeked over. It will take a lot for them to change their minds. I hope VPG can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 15 minutes ago, Doc said: The guys who are gone weren't enough to get us over the hump. And it's not a reboot, it's a reload. The Bills are the class of the AFC East until proven otherwise. That’s exactly what I said. They weren’t enough to get us there. Now whether you wanna call it a reload or a reboot is essentially semantics. Notice that neither of us used the word rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Just trying to counteract the seemingly ‘Mc Beane can do no wrong’ take that permeates Shaw’s homerism. Did the Bills draft a bunch of players? Yep! Do they have the luxury of drafting purely for depth right now? Nope! Is the current cupboard completely bear at every position? Nope….but when you’ve lost BOTH your starting WRs, BOTH your starting Safeties, and your starting Center all in one offseason, we all better pray that at least a few of these rookies can indeed play…and right now. Is there an alternative? Nope! I'm not praying that they can. Well, I'm really hoping Bishop can play. But other than that, I don't think the Bills' 2024 results depend on any of the other rookies. If Bishop is playing significant snaps by October, the Bills will be fine. If more the rookies can play, the Bills will be better off, but they aren't necessary. They lost both starting receivers by design - neither was contributing enough to be significant losses to the team. They have a satisfactory replacement for their lost center. They may even be all set at safety without Bishop, but I'd rather see Bishop there. There's an important point that I think people are missing. I think MVS said it when asked whether the Bills need him to be a leader, or something like that. He said something to the effect that neither this receiver room nor any other one needs to be rescued by anyone, because the talent in every receiver room is amazing. He said every team has real dogs, fighting everything. The difference is coaching, preparation, luck, etc. And QB. I think it's true for multiple positions, not just receiver. The Bills have good players on the offensive line, and they will be successful whether or not VPG plays of not. The difference in quality of play between Morse and McGovern just isn't that significant. The difference in quality of play between Poyer and Hyde (2023 versions) and Edwards and Rapp just isn't that significant. People don't want to believe it, but it's true. Yes, you'd rather have the better player at every position, but you can't have that. What you need are good NFL players at every position, and you build from there. The Bills are in that position, so they aren't dependent on all their rookies playing immediately. All I've said is that I think that the Bills drafted a lot of guys who look like they could player sooner. That's a good thing, but it doesn't mean the Bills have a crisis if they don't. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: I'm not praying that they can. Well, I'm really hoping Bishop can play. But other than that, I don't think the Bills' 2024 results depend on any of the other rookies. If Bishop is playing significant snaps by October, the Bills will be fine. If more the rookies can play, the Bills will be better off, but they aren't necessary. They lost both starting receivers by design - neither was contributing enough to be significant losses to the team. They have a satisfactory replacement for their lost center. They may even be all set at safety without Bishop, but I'd rather see Bishop there. There's an important point that I think people are missing. I think MVS said it when asked whether the Bills need him to be a leader, or something like that. He said something to the effect that neither this receiver room nor any other one needs to be rescued by anyone, because the talent in every receiver room is amazing. He said every team has real dogs, fighting everything. The difference is coaching, preparation, luck, etc. And QB. I think it's true for multiple positions, not just receiver. The Bills have good players on the offensive line, and they will be successful whether or not VPG plays of not. The difference in quality of play between Morse and McGovern just isn't that significant. The difference in quality of play between Poyer and Hyde (2023 versions) and Edwards and Rapp just isn't that significant. People don't want to believe it, but it's true. Yes, you'd rather have the better player at every position, but you can't have that. What you need are good NFL players at every position, and you build from there. The Bills are in that position, so they aren't dependent on all their rookies playing immediately. All I've said is that I think that the Bills drafted a lot of guys who look like they could player sooner. That's a good thing, but it doesn't mean the Bills have a crisis if they don't. I think you misunderstood. I never said there was a crisis Shaw. I only said that without seeing any of the rookies play a single down of professional football it’s impossible to know how they’ll fair. That’s it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I think you misunderstood. I never said there was a crisis Shaw. I only said that without seeing any of the rookies play a single down of professional football it’s impossible to know how they’ll fair. That’s it. Sorry. I absolutely agree with that. And I know you didn't say crisis. But I thought it wasn't unfair to make that reach after you suggested that I seem to be suggesting that the Brit was making the squad. You knew I didn't say or mean that, and I knew that you didn't say or mean crisis. On to football! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Sorry. I absolutely agree with that. And I know you didn't say crisis. But I thought it wasn't unfair to make that reach after you suggested that I seem to be suggesting that the Brit was making the squad. You knew I didn't say or mean that, and I knew that you didn't say or mean crisis. On to football! The Brit comment was obviously a joke. (Sarcasm is pretty tough on a message board.) I am however thinking that the Bills will take a step back this year…and I don’t think that’s the worst thing that could happen in the long run. I want to win, not just be forecasted for, a Super Bowl. I’m glad they’ve been forced to complete some much needed roster turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: The Brit comment was obviously a joke. (Sarcasm is pretty tough on a message board.) I am however thinking that the Bills will take a step back this year and I don’t think that’s the worst thing that could happen in the long run. I want to win, not just be forecasted for, a Super Bowl. I’m glad they’ve been forced to complete some much needed roster turnover. I agree, except I'm not expecting them to take a step back. I think they will be as competitive as they were last season, tenacious. They have the talent to play with anyone. Where I worry is with injuries. Even if I'm correct about their level of talent, their depth is really questionable. The problem with all the rookies, the rookies I think have chances to be serious contributors, is that they also could be less than adequate depth if they're counted on only as depth. As you say, they haven't played a down in the NFL, and all of them could prove to be disappointments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 On 5/25/2024 at 9:01 PM, Shaw66 said: I agree, except I'm not expecting them to take a step back. I think they will be as competitive as they were last season, tenacious. They have the talent to play with anyone. Where I worry is with injuries. Even if I'm correct about their level of talent, their depth is really questionable. The problem with all the rookies, the rookies I think have chances to be serious contributors, is that they also could be less than adequate depth if they're counted on only as depth. As you say, they haven't played a down in the NFL, and all of them could prove to be disappointments. To add on here , I think regardless of the players last year Vs Players and potential players this year , Coaching will define them. No big drop offs and no big gains , on paper at least. Enough of Bills critical losses can be assigned to Coaching errors or questionable in game decisions. Expecting that to improve this season gives me faith that the Bills will again compete heartily for AFC championship. Go Bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 12 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: To add on here , I think regardless of the players last year Vs Players and potential players this year , Coaching will define them. No big drop offs and no big gains , on paper at least. Enough of Bills critical losses can be assigned to Coaching errors or questionable in game decisions. Expecting that to improve this season gives me faith that the Bills will again compete heartily for AFC championship. Go Bills That's well put. Thanks. I think you're correct. Of course, it doesn't mean that the coaching WILL improve, just that it isn't unreasonable to think that it will. I am certain, for example, that the work plans for each of the HC, coordinators, and the position coaches include targeted objectives designed to address identified deficiencies in coaching from last season. I don't expect a step back. Once again this season, the Bills will be one of the toughest outs identified on every opponents' schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: That's well put. Thanks. I think you're correct. Of course, it doesn't mean that the coaching WILL improve, just that it isn't unreasonable to think that it will. I am certain, for example, that the work plans for each of the HC, coordinators, and the position coaches include targeted objectives designed to address identified deficiencies in coaching from last season. I don't expect a step back. Once again this season, the Bills will be one of the toughest outs identified on every opponents' schedule. Good post. Very much like the bolded ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 On 5/25/2024 at 5:23 PM, Shaw66 said: I'm not praying that they can. Well, I'm really hoping Bishop can play. But other than that, I don't think the Bills' 2024 results depend on any of the other rookies. If Bishop is playing significant snaps by October, the Bills will be fine. If more the rookies can play, the Bills will be better off, but they aren't necessary. They lost both starting receivers by design - neither was contributing enough to be significant losses to the team. They have a satisfactory replacement for their lost center. They may even be all set at safety without Bishop, but I'd rather see Bishop there. There's an important point that I think people are missing. I think MVS said it when asked whether the Bills need him to be a leader, or something like that. He said something to the effect that neither this receiver room nor any other one needs to be rescued by anyone, because the talent in every receiver room is amazing. He said every team has real dogs, fighting everything. The difference is coaching, preparation, luck, etc. And QB. I think it's true for multiple positions, not just receiver. The Bills have good players on the offensive line, and they will be successful whether or not VPG plays of not. The difference in quality of play between Morse and McGovern just isn't that significant. The difference in quality of play between Poyer and Hyde (2023 versions) and Edwards and Rapp just isn't that significant. People don't want to believe it, but it's true. Yes, you'd rather have the better player at every position, but you can't have that. What you need are good NFL players at every position, and you build from there. The Bills are in that position, so they aren't dependent on all their rookies playing immediately. All I've said is that I think that the Bills drafted a lot of guys who look like they could player sooner. That's a good thing, but it doesn't mean the Bills have a crisis if they don't. The only three players that are possible to start are Coleman, Bishop and SVPG. The rest of the rookies are either slotted to be depth role players (Hardy, Davis, Solomon, Carter, Grabel, and Edefu) or a project like Clayton. The Bills are not going to have to heavily depend on this draft class to step into many starting roles unless there are injuries. I think expecting 2 and maybe 3 players to start or have bigger roles out of your rookie class is pretty "standard" for most draft classes. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, billsfan89 said: The only three players that are possible to start are Coleman, Bishop and SVPG. The rest of the rookies are either slotted to be depth role players (Hardy, Davis, Solomon, Carter, Grabel, and Edefu) or a project like Clayton. The Bills are not going to have to heavily depend on this draft class to step into many starting roles unless there are injuries. I think expecting 2 and maybe 3 players to start or have bigger roles out of your rookie class is pretty "standard" for most draft classes. I think they really want to have Davis and Carter be in the regular rotation at their positions. I consider that starting, but that's just me. Point is, the first five guys the Bills took could all be playing significant roles on the team. They may not, but they all have talent that suggests they could. Three potential starters and two potential rotational roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 If Davis is as good as many as saying he could be, he could be a starter and relegate Cook to a 3rd down role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, Doc said: If Davis is as good as many as saying he could be, he could be a starter and relegate Cook to a 3rd down role. From everything I'm hearing Davis's skills make him likely to be the 3rd down back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 26 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: From everything I'm hearing Davis's skills make him likely to be the 3rd down back. I think that's his role initially since Cook has been here longer and had a good 2nd season. I thought it would be tough for him to unseat Cook as a rookie, but possibly going forward since Cook will be in his 4th and possibly last year with the Bills next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, Doc said: I think that's his role initially since Cook has been here longer and had a good 2nd season. I thought it would be tough for him to unseat Cook as a rookie, but possibly going forward since Cook will be in his 4th and possibly last year with the Bills next year. Maybe, but I still have to see how much Cook can improve in this current Bills system. After all, he has at least 2 full seasons to go. It's only the halfway point. A great one two punch would be wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Maybe, but I still have to see how much Cook can improve in this current Bills system. After all, he has at least 2 full seasons to go. It's only the halfway point. A great one two punch would be wonderful. I agree. Davis at 5'8" 220# versus 5'11" and 190# would seem to have more punch to him, however, as starting RB. Edited May 27 by Doc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I think they really want to have Davis and Carter be in the regular rotation at their positions. I consider that starting, but that's just me. Point is, the first five guys the Bills took could all be playing significant roles on the team. They may not, but they all have talent that suggests they could. Three potential starters and two potential rotational roles. Davis is in a rotation with Ty and Cook is the confirmed lead back. To me that's more of a role player than a starter. Carter is in a 4 man rotation at DT, I don't think that to me qualifies him as a starter. The Bills are going to be relying on a lot of rookies to play roles but the roles are more so limited roles that I think they can handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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