The Athletic article "2024 NFL Draft Sleepers" Sedrick Van Pran-Granger, C, Buffalo Bills Round 5,

[mrags]

I really like the kid. And…. He’s faster than Coleman 

[CNYfan]

On the embedded draft video, I saw that someone, I believe either McDermott or Grey said "VPG" and Beane said "I am going to take Davis then VPG".

 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, mrags said:

I really like the kid. And…. He’s faster than Coleman 

 

Aren’t you getting weary by now? I admire the stamina. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

Agree completely. I've always said, we need a quintessential center. not a reinvented guard. Center is the anchor of the line. (RIP Kent Hull)!

Amen

[bearstobills]

2 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

No it doesn't. Beane's best overall draft class was the Josh Allen pick. Period, end of story. Josh Allen is worth more to the team than every one of Beane's picks from the 2024 draft.

 

That said, I could definitely see Beane's 2024 draft working out well.

Not to mention how strong that class was after that pick.  Edmunds was a day 1 starter and a multi year pro bowler, Harrison Phillips is a starting DT for the Vikings, Taron is Johnson in the 4th (pro bowler), Siran Neal and the dearly departed Wyatt Tyler (multi year pro-bowler) in the 5th, Ray Ray Mcloud in the 6th.  That's 4 pro bowlers in his first draft.  

[finn]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It continues to amaze me that with almost every pick Beane got a player who has a seriously good chance of playing more than token snaps in his rookie season.  

Yeah, but that may as much about the team's lack of depth as it does the players' abilities. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, that's correct.  Coleman is a replacement, Bishop is a replacement, Van Pran-Granger is a replacement.  

 

But the interesting thing about is that the replacements look like they can play now, not spend three years working their way into the league.  If Coleman starts, it will be because he can do the job, not because there was no one else.   Bishop too.   And VPG.   They each have to take the job from veteran players who have real NFL starting experience, but what's interesting is that they no one will be surprised to if they win the jobs.  

 

For example, the Bills are not going to start VPG just because they project him as the center of the future.   He'll start if he can do the job, and absent injury, only if he can do the job.  McGregor won't be a failure at center - he might not be great, but he won't fail.  

 

As I said, what's amazing about this draft is how many rookies can legitimately win significant playing time.  

 

And, by the way, the fact that they have a fifth-rounder who may start on a Super Bowl contender is one of the core concepts McDermott explained when he first got here.   He said the roster would improve every year, and he said he would build a culture where the veterans bring the young players up to speed quickly, so that you can get help out of the draft quickly.   It's easier to put VPG into the starting lineup with Torrence and McGregor next to him than with whoever the guards were five years ago.  If he has talent, the veterans will see it quickly, and they will work to integrate him.   Same with Coleman, and Bishop (man, I wish they'd get Micah back on the field as a player or a coach, just to talk to Bishop every day).  This is a championship caliber team, and young talent fits in more quickly than on a team that's perennially .500 or worse. 

I have no idea how you get any of that before seeing any of these kids play a single down of professional football….but we of course all hope you’re right. My point is that the Bills don’t really have a choice right now. They’ve evolved into a new phase and we’re pretty much forced to get younger and cheaper….fast! They no longer have the luxury of signing strictly for depth like they’ve been doing in recent years. Will these young kids work out? Who knows? We’re all going to find out together. Because as it’s often said ‘necessity is the mother of invention’. 

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

I hope the Bills give Sed Van Pran some early starter looks in camp, the way they did with O'Cyrus Torrence.

I said this in another thread here recently, but the best thing that could happen to the OL this season would be for SVP to take the starting center role and never look back. It would allow the least upheaval/turnover to the OL, as it would mean McGovern could stay at LG, Edwards could stay as valuable depth, and only the center position would be different than last year.

As a side note, I'll say it's funny to me that a player "only being a fit at center" is a thing that dings guys enough that they fall significantly in the draft these days. I get wanting positional versatility, but center is an important position, and if a guy can be a ten year starter there -- even if he can't play a single down at guard in his career -- then it's a great pick and worth more than a 5th round draft choice.

I really don't understand how this guy fell as far as he did on draft day. I know he has shorter-than-desired arms for the position and that he's not considered a good candidate to be a guard in the pros, but...is that it? How does a three-year SEC starter, two time captain, two time national champion center with pro traits fall to the 5th round? There must be some other weaknesses to his game that us laymen are not aware of.

Here's hoping that this dude proves to be a steal and softens the blow of losing Mitch Morse.

Centers are the running backs of offensive line. Rightly or wrongly, that is how the league has judged them.

That being said, if SVPG is a starter for even 3 years here, it’s tremendous value.  Probably my favorite pick of the draft.

Edited May 23 by FireChans

[Logic]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Centers are the running backs of offensive line. Rightly or wrongly, that is how the league has judged them.

 

Given that they help set protections, snap the ball to the quarterback, AND help keep a clean pocket, I'd say "wrongly".

[mrags]

47 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Aren’t you getting weary by now? I admire the stamina. 

I’m stubborn 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Basically,  it's a list of players all the media draftniks thought were going to get drafted much sooner.

 

The real sleepers are the guys like Christian Benford that nobody thought much of(including the teams that take them) but then turn into starting caliber players pretty quickly.

[HOUSE]

I had him going in the first round to Cleveland 

[Rampant Buffalo]

56 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

Not to mention how strong that class was after that pick.  Edmunds was a day 1 starter and a multi year pro bowler, Harrison Phillips is a starting DT for the Vikings, Taron is Johnson in the 4th (pro bowler), Siran Neal and the dearly departed Wyatt Tyler (multi year pro-bowler) in the 5th, Ray Ray Mcloud in the 6th.  That's 4 pro bowlers in his first draft.  

 

Back in the '90s and 2000s, it was common for the Bills to use a first round pick on a CB. He'd spend five or (Nate Clements) six years with the team, then leave in free agency. Another first round pick would be used on his replacement. The RB position was similar, except the duration of RBs was often even shorter than for CBs. There was a period of 40 years, during which the Bills used 1/4 of their first picks of the draft on DBs, and another 1/4 on RBs. Leaving only 50% for everything else. Needless to say, the Bills lost more games than they won during those 40 years.

 

When I evaluate the success of a particular draft pick, I look at the quality of the player. But I also look at the duration of play he provided for the team which drafted him. Both Cordy Glenn and Travis Henry were drafted in the second round. Glenn was with the team for far longer than Travis Henry, which is one of several reasons why Glenn was a much more successful use of a 2nd round pick.

 

Edmunds had great athleticism. For certain situations or in certain games he played at a high level. But, his football instincts were poor, and he was bad at shedding blocks. Someone posted a stat that, during his time with the Bills, he was blitzed 70 times or so (I forget the exact number). That resulted in zero pressures. If you take into account both the good and bad parts of his game, he was not worth anything close to the monster contract he got. At least not to me. I would never want to use a first round pick on an off-the-ball linebacker whose game had as many weaknesses as Edmunds' did, and who was only going to be with the team for five years. 

 

Harrison Phillips is a very solid player. But, like you said, a very solid player for the Vikings. Just as Wyatt Teller is an excellent player for the Cleveland Browns. I give Beane a lot of credit for drafting both those players in the first place. But he gets anti-credit for failing to keep them. Either player would be a real benefit to the Bills, if added right now.

 

In terms of that draft, I give Beane the most credit for taking Josh Allen (obviously), and the second-most for Taron Johnson. Johnson may not be as good a player as a guy like Wyatt Teller, but at least he's still with the team.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

NFL center is a complex position because of the pre-snap responsibility dealing with pass protection, etc.  If McD doesn't throw the rookie in early in the season, it will probably have more to do with knowledge and mental preparation rather than physical ability.  I believe he will become a solid performer for the Bills when he is ready or sooner in the event of injuries.  I hope we are looking at this late round draft pick in the future the same way we look at the selection of Milano.

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I loved the SVPG pick, back to back years the Bills got a very strong IOL prospect fall to them at a good value largely because they were "only" a guard (in the case of Torrence) or "only" a center in the case of SVPG. I get that teams like to have flexibility for their reserve offensive line players to have the ability to play two positions because teams only carry 9 and at most 10 offensive linemen on the 53 man roster and they usually keep one inactive. So with only 3-4 players in reserve on game day each team usually likes to have a swing tackle that can play LT/RT, a guard that can flex out to RT, and a center that can flex to a guard spot at a minimum. Whereas if you have a player occupying 1 of 3 bench spots whose "only" a backup at one position that's leaving you vulnerable. 

 

However, I think that ignores the ability for your starters to move around. If SVPG can't displace McGovern or Edwards then McGovern's ability to flex out to guard makes having a "pure" backup center the same as having a Center that can play guard. It's smart roster building as I think SVPG is good enough to push for a starting role and was highly undervalued due to perceived lack of positional flexibility. 

 

4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 

I agree. Once the line is settled, I would like to hope only the back ups and PS guys need to have serious physical position flexibility. I am not moving my starting center to guard cuz a guard or 3 go down during the game

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Aren’t you getting weary by now? I admire the stamina. 

We all have a sense of humor

Not all of us have a mainstream sense of it  LOL

 But you have a good one as well

 

Edited May 24 by 3rdand12

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have no idea how you get any of that before seeing any of these kids play a single down of professional football….

My point was that they all are guys who've given good indication that they could play early.   I won't be surprised if any of them is starting by mid-season, because they've all demonstrated some important characteristics.  As someone said, VPG is a two-time all SEC guy, two-time national champion - I'm not going to be surprised if he starts.   But he won't start out desperation on the Bills part - they will be fine with McGregor.  Bishop is a highly rated guy, exactly in the mold of McDermott safeties, so I won't be surprised.  But the Bills have two NFL veteran safeties, and Bishop won't start unless he's good enough.   And Coleman, also highly rated, with a pretty interesting skill set.  I won't be surprised.  But no one will hand him the starting job.  He has to beat out three or four credibly NFL veterans - Shakir, Samuel, MVS, and Claypool.  

 

So, no, I'm not saying they're locks.  I'm saying they have something about them, each of them, that suggests they could play early.  

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

NFL center is a complex position because of the pre-snap responsibility dealing with pass protection, etc.  If McD doesn't throw the rookie in early in the season, it will probably have more to do with knowledge and mental preparation rather than physical ability.  I believe he will become a solid performer for the Bills when he is ready or sooner in the event of injuries.  I hope we are looking at this late round draft pick in the future the same way we look at the selection of Milano.

It's precisely because it's a complex position that it's not uncommon for centers to start early in the NFL.  Mitch Morse stated as a rookie, and he wasn't and isn't the toughest or strongest guy.  He started because smart guys who have played the position at a high level in college come into the league pretty far up the learning curve.   Tackles, on the other hand, haven't been prepared in college to play NFL tackle.   

 

It's not a stretch to think he could start early, especially if Edwards underperforms at left guard.  Remember, a lot of people here, correctly, said that moving McGregor potentially made the Bills weaker at two positions, even though they lost only one starter.   If VPG can play, the Bills again are potentially weaker at only one position, and maybe not by much or for long.  

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Given that they help set protections, snap the ball to the quarterback, AND help keep a clean pocket, I'd say "wrongly".

You're right but at the same time, he's got a good point as they don't get valued as much as guards/tackles.

 

Highest paid centre this year I believe is Ragnow at 13.5 million.

 

Compared to highest paid guard- Dickerson at 21 mil per and Sewell for tackle at 28 mil per year 

 

 

[3rdand12]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

You're right but at the same time, he's got a good point as they don't get valued as much as guards/tackles.

 

Highest paid centre this year I believe is Ragnow at 13.5 million.

 

Compared to highest paid guard- Dickerson at 21 mil per and Sewell for tackle at 28 mil per year 

 

 

and yet , the most important player on the line 

[BillsFan130]

9 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

and yet , the most important player on the line 

Arguably, yes. NFL GMs/coaches don't see it that way though