McDermott Growth/Expectations

[PBF81]

31 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty key difference.

The statement "never once in seven seasons have we BEATEN a comparable or stronger team in the playoffs" is mostly accurate. "Taken it to" usually means "put up a really good fight". and the Bills have done that multiple times.

In fact, I'd say there have only been two playoff games in which the Bills really didn't have a chance. The Chiefs AFCCG in 2020, in which the Chiefs were clearly the superior team, and the Bengals game in the 2022 playoffs, in which the Bills got blown off the field. Other than those two instances, I'd say the Bills pretty much ALWAYS take it to all their opponents in the playoffs. It's that pesky "winning the game" thing that they've failed to do on too many occasions. 

 

LOL, it is a key difference.  I made that change.  I thought that was implied however since the context was playoff wins.  Not our losses.  

 

But you implicitly raise a good point since the OP discussion is about McDefense's Growth/Expectations.   Good coaches don't simply throw up a good game once in a while in the playoffs, the expectations, particularly with Allen, are to bring home the bacon.   

 

Who imagines that after 15 seasons of coaching, with Allen as a QB, that if we never even win an AFC CG, and finish that stretch with 8 or 9 wild-card round wins, while having played some good games in the playoffs close otherwise, would be considered acceptable in hindsight.   

 

We're at the midway point now with our crowning playoff achievement, amidst little else, being 13-Seconds.  

 

We're already looking at the 8th time's the charm now in the eyes now with a depleted team even.  It's easy to envision the bawling over not having a bonafide #1 occurring pretty soon this season.  

 

 

Edited May 20 by PBF81

[Jauronimo]

23 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Take away Josh Allen and McDermott is just Dick Jauron: The Next Generation.

Every head coach without a franchise QB is Dick Jauron based on record. Bill Belichick is now Jauron.  Great point.

[SoonerBillsFan]

Seeing the massive change in the teams philosophy (cutting all the veterans etc)  I think something happened.

 

You could see McDermott being really reserved during the draft. 

There has been a shift from "this is how we have always done it".  

 

Personally I love it.  You can't keep smashing your head against the wall trying to make it a door.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, TFBillsfan said:

McDermott is going into his 7th season as the Bills head coach. His staff beneath him has turned over with a new DC and it’s Brady’s first full season as OC. The schedule is loaded and the AFCE has improved.

 

Curious what your expectations are of McDermott? What areas do you hope/expect he improves at?

 

McDermott has been a solid coach with lots of positives but far too often stumbles a few times per season against a lesser team, struggles to make in game adjustments and come the playoffs, he gets outcoached in key games and his team has failed to execute at critical moments. Overall, he has a losing record in the playoffs at 5-6.

Let's list the coaches that have a better record than him in the last 7 years:  Andy Reid end of list

Who does he lose in the playoffs to:  Andy Reid mostly.

Who else struggle vs Reid in the playoffs:  Shanahan

Let's list the coaches with playoff wins the last 4 years:  Andy Reid and Sean McDermott

A 5-6 playoff record is not what you want but the 6 tells you he made the playoffs 6 times, the 5 shows you he has won a playoff game 5 times, playoff wins are hard to come by.

 

You can spin things many ways.  Have the Bills not gotten over the hump in the playoffs?  Yes.  Same issue Reid had for years.   I am open to hearing who we want to replace him with but it will be someone who is coaching another team or has not had the level of performance McDermott has had.  Too often stumbles against lesser teams?  Compare with the rest of the league first.   They win more than any team except 1.   When you really break down McDermott vs Reid it is close excpet McD has the edge in regular season and Reid in the playoffs.  Playoffs are what matters but its not like he is getting blown out of the water, the games, all of them come down to a play here or a play there, at least the last 4 have.

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Every head coach without a franchise QB is Dick Jauron based on record. Bill Belichick is now Jauron.  Great point.

 

Really? 

 

Shanahan's done notably better with Purdy and Garropalo. 

Lewis did better with Dalton.  

Joe Gibbs did phenominally with Rypien, Williams, and Theismann, none of which are even in the conversation with Allen.  

Johnson did incredibly better with Aikman.  

Harbaugh did notably better with Flacco.  

 

There are others.  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

You can spin things many ways.  Have the Bills not gotten over the hump in the playoffs?  Yes.  Same issue Reid had for years.  

 

That is simply not true. 

 

You're implying that Reid was no better in the playoffs with McNabb than McD's been with Allen, which is ridiculously false.  

 

Just look up their playoff records and performances in each of their first 7 seasons.  

 

That's such an intellectually lazy defense.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The only expectation I have for him is that he cannot lose again to non-Chiefs teams in the playoffs.

 

if we lose to the greatest dynasty in the NFL currently, oh well.

 

If he loses to the Ravens or Bengals or Texans in the postseason, he’s gotta go. 
 

Imo.

 

So this year I am not sure we would be favoured to beat the Ravens or the Bengals in the playoffs. My expectations are somewhat lower so I'd probably give him a pass on that unless it is a no contest type of defeat. If he misses the playoffs he has to go. If he loses to a team we are clearly better than in the playoffs I'd consider moving on. Not sure whether I have Houston in that bracket or not but losing to a Miami, or the Chargers or Jacksonville, or Indy in the playoffs would definitely give me pause. 

[Buffalo Boy]

21 minutes ago, Logic said:

Bad/lazy take.

Jauron was 60-82 as a head coach.

McDermott is 73-41 as a head coach.

Jauron had a .42 win percentage as a head coach.

McDermott has a .64 win percentage as a head coach, which is best all time for the Buffalo Bills, and just below Andy Reid and Bill Belichick's career win percentages.

Dick Jauron had one playoff season in 10 seasons as head coach. He was 0-1 in the playoffs.

Sean McDermott has had six playoff seasons out of seven seasons as head coach. He is 5-6 in the playoffs.

I'm no McDermott apologist, and I'm not sure he's the man for the job long term, but to compare him to Jauron is simply unreasonable and unrealistic.

Who was the best QB Dickie boy had?

How does that QB compare to Allen?

Lazy take???

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Who was the best QB Dickie boy had?

How does that QB compare to Allen?

Lazy take???

How many head coaches consistently have winning records without good quarterbacks?

On the flip side, surely all very good QBs in the NFL make the playoffs every year, and coaching has nothing to do with it. I assume Justin Herbert makes the playoffs every year, right? 

What was McDermott's record the year he DIDN'T have Josh as head coach? What did his team look like, and did it make the playoffs?

Is it honestly your contention that if you gave Jauron Josh Allen as his QB, that he'd be just as good of a head coach as Sean McDermott?

It's absolutely wild to me that people are legitimately comparing the head coach with the highest winning percentage in franchise history to Jauron, or are claiming that Allen is the only reason McDermott has won so many football games.

Again...I'm not a huge McDermott lover. I've been frustrated with him a lot lately, and I'm not sure he's the man for the job long term. But comparing him to Jauron is just nonsense.

I would love -- absolutely LOVE -- to hear what makes Sean McDermott "just like Jauron". What makes them similar, specifically? Please enlighten me.



 

[BullBuchanan]

I don't really expect him to improve at all. How many coaches have significant improvement after 7 years on the job with no prior signs of growth?  I haven't seen anything the last couple of years that tells me he's meaningfully improved year over year. Unless you have a coach that's at the forefront of innovation, I think it's hard to just consistently get better.

[Buffalo Boy]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

How many head coaches consistently have winning records without good quarterbacks?

On the flip side, surely all very good QBs in the NFL make the playoffs every year, and coaching has nothing to do with it. I assume Justin Herbert makes the playoffs every year, right? 

What was McDermott's record the year he DIDN'T have Josh as head coach? What did his team look like, and did it make the playoffs?

Is it honestly your contention that if you gave Jauron Josh Allen as his QB, that he'd be just as good of a head coach as Sean McDermott?

It's absolutely wild to me that people are legitimately comparing the head coach with the highest winning percentage in franchise history to Jauron, or are claiming that Allen is the only reason McDermott has won so many football games.

Again...I'm not a huge McDermott lover. I've been frustrated with him a lot lately, and I'm not sure he's the man for the job long term. But comparing him to Jauron is just nonsense.

I would love -- absolutely LOVE -- to hear what makes Sean McDermott "just like Jauron". What makes them similar, specifically? Please enlighten me.



 

   You made an apples/oranges comparison with a lot of stats…. Woohoo…..yay……

   It was a non lazy bad take.

   I don’t like the Jerkron comp. He’s Schottenheimer 2.0. He’s a big game choker who can’t win, even with home field or Josh gifting him a last seconds, unloseable win…… which he lost.

[BullBuchanan]

27 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Every head coach without a franchise QB is Dick Jauron based on record. Bill Belichick is now Jauron.  Great point.

Bill Belichick went 11-5 with matt Cassel, He dragged Mac Jones tot he playoffs kicking and screaming.

Kyle Shanahan has people thinking Jimmy Garoppolo might be the next elite QB in the NFL for a minute and now he's doing the same with Brock Purdy. We all know how Jimmy turned out.

Great coaches get the best out of their players, but you can't get gold from *****.


Bad counter argument.

[Nephilim17]

Regular season high-level overall defensive play is not enough. We need to do it consistently in the playoffs. I know, injuries, great teams, but a defensive specialist needs to rise to the occasion in big moments and raise his game, not lower it.

[msw2112]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

He will continue to make stupid mistakes and hope his superstar QB can minimize his F-ups. There will be at least 2 times this season where he will make the same mistakes he has in the past and we will be wondering wtf, how has this idiot not learned his lessons from the last. 

 

You're not wrong, however consider that ALL coaches make occasional mistakes, even those that are considered the best in the business such as Belichick, Reid, Harbaugh, etc.  It happens in other sports too.

[Buffalo Boy]

1 minute ago, Nephilim17 said:

Regular season high-level overall defensive play is not enough. We need to do it consistently in the playoffs. I know, injuries, great teams, but a defensive specialist needs to rise to the occasion in big moments and raise his game, not lower it.

Let me just beat them all to the punch….

Excuse…….

Non sequitur followed by useless stats

Number 1 regular season D💪🎉yay!!!!

More excuses…..

Ad Hominem attack 

What about “ the drought” argument

🤢🤮😎

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Bill Belichick went 11-5 with matt Cassel, He dragged Mac Jones tot he playoffs kicking and screaming.

Kyle Shanahan has people thinking Jimmy Garoppolo might be the next elite QB in the NFL for a minute and now he's doing the same with Brock Purdy. We all know how Jimmy turned out.

Great coaches get the best out of their players, but you can't get gold from *****.


Bad counter argument.

Shanahan is really the only one you have any argument with.

How many rings as Bill "Greatest of all time" Belichick won as a head coach without Brady? The exact same amount as Sean McDermott, that's how many.

Having sustained success without a high quality quarterback is more the exception than the rule.

And on the flip side, there are instances of great QBs who lose year after year and DON'T regularly make the playoffs. Why? Because their coaches stink. How many times has Justin Herbert made the playoffs in his career? 

 

[BullBuchanan]

43 minutes ago, Logic said:

Bad/lazy take.

Jauron was 60-82 as a head coach.

McDermott is 73-41 as a head coach.

Jauron had a .42 win percentage as a head coach.

McDermott has a .64 win percentage as a head coach, which is best all time for the Buffalo Bills, and just below Andy Reid and Bill Belichick's career win percentages.

Dick Jauron had one playoff season in 10 seasons as head coach. He was 0-1 in the playoffs.

Sean McDermott has had six playoff seasons out of seven seasons as head coach. He is 5-6 in the playoffs.

I'm no McDermott apologist, and I'm not sure he's the man for the job long term, but to compare him to Jauron is simply unreasonable and unrealistic.

What exactly do you think you proved with all this? You realize that when you take away Josh Allen, these stats don't line up like this, right?

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

What exactly do you think you proved with all this? You realize that when you take away Josh Allen, these stats don't line up like this, right?

The burden of proof is on the accuser. 

Thus far, I've at least provided career win percentage statistics. You've provided nothing of substance to back up your claim.

I'd love to hear what, specifically, makes Sean McDermott just like Jauron. 

Please enlighten us.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Shanahan is really the only one you have any argument with.

How many rings as Bill "Greatest of all time" Belichick won as a head coach without Brady? The exact same amount as Sean McDermott, that's how many.

Having sustained success without a high quality quarterback is more the exception than the rule.

And on the flip side, there are instances of great QBs who lose year after year and DON'T regularly make the playoffs. Why? Because their coaches stink. How many times has Justin Herbert made the playoffs in his career? 

 

If Super Bowl victories are your only metric for caliber of coaching, that's your problem.

[Freddie's Dead]

I have no expectations.  The challenge against Denver tore it for me.  You can't fix stupid.  If we make the playoffs, we're out in the Divisional round.  I'll be more than happy to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Edited May 20 by Freddie's Dead

[Billsflyer12]

2 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

Most of my friends hate McD. I gently remind them of 17 years of futility that has been replaced by expectations of winning every year 🤷

How many years does McD have to coach for us to stop constantly referencing what it was like prior to him being hired?

 

10 years? 15 years? Never?

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If Super Bowl victories are your only metric for caliber of coaching, that's your problem.

Is it a fair expectation for a coach with a top 3, HOF level QB to at least make 1 Super Bowl appearance in their 1st 8 years?