McDermott Growth/Expectations

[drummernut74]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

I don't expect to see much of a difference this year relative to the last 3.  We may see growth in the way he handles his young coordinators.  Does he let them do their thing or does he take over the D and the play calling when things aren't going well?

 

My biggest concern with McD is that his defense has been completely exposed in our last 3 playoff losses.  Without 11 healthy starters and a strong rotation of contributors this defense is barely a speed bump for the Chiefs and Bengals when the games matter.  I don't see McD coming out with game plans that are confusing or stifling the league's premier offenses even when they're playing without several starters on their offensive line.  Meanwhile the Bengals defense made our offense look like they were playing together for the first time all year.  I'm probably wrong, but it looks like McD trots out his base defense and if that isn't working then we are properly screwed.

This right here!

 

It’s called “getting outside the box” or “getting outside of your comfort zone”. The Andy Reid’s of the world LIVE outside the box and can always get creative to deal with the situation that’s in front of them.  The Chiefs are married to winning the SB, and the Bills are married to some mythical blind faith process that they believe will get them there 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, <bills4life> said:

You forgot to add 1 afc championship game appearance. Which he single handily blew. The seat should have been smoldering hot that very day. 

 

Yeah, he’s got the 2nd most wins in the last 5 years behind only Andy Reid, he’s won the AFCE 4 years in a row and he has the best winning percentage in franchise history.  That gets you a smoldering hot seat?  I think thought beats emotion in terms of outcomes. My Big Picture with no anger says we are in good hands. 

 

The “fire the bum” crowd are delusional about how hard it is to do better.  I prefer to let him keep doing a great job, and getting better every year. It took Andy Reid a while too. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

And McDermott dragged Tyrod Taylor to the playoffs.  He has had one losing season in his career and it was Allen's rookie year.

 

Belichick got fired after 2 more years with Mac Jones.  

 

Ask @PBF81 about how much credit Belichick should get for going 11-5 with Cassel when Sparano won the division that year playing the same schedule.

 

Lazy initial argument, bad counter.

 

So I guess Shanahan is the only objectively good coach in the modern NFL and everyone else just got lucky with a franchise QB. 

Hardly.

Tyrod Taylor was a better QB than Cassel and when Taylor went to the playoffs, he won just won more game than he did in either of the previous two seasons. So, with that in mind, he had a typicaly Tyrod Taylor season. McD didn't elevate him at all. Interestingly, the game that got us in the playoffs that year - a win against the lowly Miami Dolphins, was another near-colossal collapse by a McDermott team where after holding them scoreless for 42 minutes, we needed a last minute interception to stop the march of David Fales and Kenny Stills from continuing our playoff drought.

Lazy counter response and non-existent argument.

[mrags]

5 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

You're not wrong, however consider that ALL coaches make occasional mistakes, even those that are considered the best in the business such as Belichick, Reid, Harbaugh, etc.  It happens in other sports too.

But I don’t see other coaches making monumental mistakes over and over again and not learning from them. At least not good coaches. Anything he learns he forgets in the playoffs and continues to be ultra conservative or in a case like last year, make a stupid mistake like having Hamlin run a fake punt on 4th down. So dumb 

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yes, intellectually lazy if that's the extent of your research.  

 

 

 

Is it turtling, or simply being out-schemed and out-coached in the playoffs by peers that are notably better than he is, which raises the question as to how good he truly is apart from having Allen cover up a lot of the weak links.  

 

I realize that's just a term, but it seems that at that level, against the best, and where Allen's talent alone isn't enough to beat some schlep team or a good team on pure talent disparity, but only in the regular season, he's simply out-coached.  

 

 

Oh I absolutely believe he’s outcoached. 100%. That’s not the problem imo. Imo if he let Allen just play to his strengths and take some chances, Allen might be able to overcome McDermotts bad coaching. 

[Watching since 1964]

True, it took Andy Reid awhile.

 

But, once he got a Josh Allen like superstar qb, it didn’t take him long at all.

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

The problem is, if you have a great OC he will quickly get poached and become a HC. A great DC is less likely to get poached for HC. I really like McD in general, but a defensive minded HC will lead to a lot of turnover at OC whether you hit or miss. 

 

Wouldn't it be better though to have a good OC for a couple of seasons than never?  

Isn't it suspicious that the only time that Daboll's ever been good as an OC in the NFL is after Allen came into his own?  Is it pure coincidence that in his other 7 seasons he's been bottom dwelling on offense as either an OC or HC?  It's hardly unreasonable to ask whether Allen made him or whether he made Allen.  But since Allen's had immense success without Daboll but Daboll's had no particular success apart from Allen, that's a pretty good clue.  

 

Neither Dorsey nor Brady have done anything exceptional yet.  Despite Allen's tempering his metrics are on a down trend from 2020.  

 

What seems to be an issue is that McD was hired before Allen was drafted.  Would Pegula have chosen McDefense had Allen predated McD?  

 

Last season there was talk amongst fans and media as to whether McD was the right man for the job, regardless of our independent discussions here.  He knows this.  Knowing what we know about McD, what is there to suggest that he'd go out and get a ringer of an OC when he knows that there are murmurings as to whether or not he's right for the job?  In his mind he may be unwilling to hire his potential replacement.  Keeping a guy like Brady (or formerly Dorsey) around, both of whom owed him for the opportunity, is a much safer move.  They'll do what he wants, not what they want.  We don't know for sure, but that's what the speculation was about McD v. Daboll.  

 

Either way, not getting a good or great OC because he may leave is not a good strategy if it's in favor of the pure unknown.  

 

We'll see, but there's a good chance that much of this comes out into the open this season.  The over reliance on Coleman and Davis for our offense to work this season is palpable and unwise.  

 

 

[Jauronimo]

29 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Hardly.

Tyrod Taylor was a better QB than Cassel and when Taylor went to the playoffs, he won just won more game than he did in either of the previous two seasons. So, with that in mind, he had a typicaly Tyrod Taylor season. McD didn't elevate him at all. Interestingly, the game that got us in the playoffs that year - a win against the lowly Miami Dolphins, was another near-colossal collapse by a McDermott team where after holding them scoreless for 42 minutes, we needed a last minute interception to stop the march of David Fales and Kenny Stills from continuing our playoff drought.

Lazy counter response and non-existent argument.

I guess its a good thing that football games are not measured by things that almost happened.  Keep digging.

[Mikie2times]

I love people talking about Andy Reid, as if that is a possible development story McD could aspire to.

 

Reid playoff record with Mahomes 15-3, 4 AFC Championships, and 3 Super Bowls

Reid playoff record without Mahomes, 11-13, one NFC Championship

 

I guess we can expect things to get better when McD gets a better QB 😆

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

I love people talking about Andy Reid, as if that is a possible development story McD could aspire to.

 

Reid playoff record with Mahomes 15-3, 4 AFC Championships, and 3 Super Bowls

Reid playoff record without Mahomes, 11-13, one NFC Championship

 

I guess we can expect things to get better when McD gets a better QB 😆

 

Or when he doesn't have to get past that same Patrick Mahomes.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Or when he doesn't have to get past that same Patrick Mahomes.

You think he's getting past the Bengals? 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Or when he doesn't have to get past that same Patrick Mahomes.

he cant get past the bengals either

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

You think he's getting past the Bengals? 

 

 

I think he could yes. The defeat to the Bengals two years ago was on the players. Josh included. He sucked. 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he could yes. The defeat to the Bengals two years ago was on the players. Josh included. He sucked. 

Allen was the only guy who came to play that game lol

 

people really do have short memories

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he could yes. The defeat to the Bengals two years ago was on the players. Josh included. He sucked. 

Last year? How about the first 3 drives for both teams in the three times we have seen them? Did they not score fast enough the previous three tries? 

[mrags]

15 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I love people talking about Andy Reid, as if that is a possible development story McD could aspire to.

 

Reid playoff record with Mahomes 15-3, 4 AFC Championships, and 3 Super Bowls

Reid playoff record without Mahomes, 11-13, one NFC Championship

 

I guess we can expect things to get better when McD gets a better QB 😆

Right!?!

 

exactly where I’m at. Even with possibly the best 2-3 QBs in the entire league and McDermott still looks like a fool in the playoffs every year. 
 

right back the argument that without Josh we’re a .500 team at best and this coach would have been fired years ago. 

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Or when he doesn't have to get past that same Patrick Mahomes.

So during the season he does it like every single year but in the playoffs he can’t get it done? 

[PBF81]

25 minutes ago, mrags said:

Oh I absolutely believe he’s outcoached. 100%. That’s not the problem imo. Imo if he let Allen just play to his strengths and take some chances, Allen might be able to overcome McDermotts bad coaching. 

 

As do I and lots of others.  

 

Here's the thing, McDefense has an MO, which has changed since he's been here, several times now, and never lasting more than a couple of seasons, and despite not always fully articulating it, which in and of itself is bizarre.  He let's Allen play to his strengths in the playoffs, but Allen then has to overcome his coach, which is too much, particularly if Allen's not in Superman mode.  We also all know that at some point Allen simply says F-it in games and takes the game into his own hands.  That's not coaching however.  That's Allen taking over.  

 

This complimentary football approach is anything but letting Allen play to his strengths, it's the opposite.  So going into this season anyway, Allen won't be playing to his strengths.  

 

We also get into the roster-building aspect of it as well.  Look at our roster, it's not built to cater to Allen's strengths.  That even assumes that Coleman's even 80% of what people think he is.  So between the two, why on earth would Allen be at his best this season.  There is no known reason other than blind hope.  

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I guess its a good thing that football games are not measured by things that almost happened.  Keep digging.

Except when the things that almost happened later do in fact happen. Just because you don't get burned every single time, doesn't mean you aren't screwing up. We had the Hail Murray, and then allowed the exact same situation the very next week against San Diego that just happened to not burn them. They collapsed against Tampa Bay last year and were a pass interference call away from being knocked out of playoff contention. We get annual reminders ever year when we play KC or Cincinnati exactly who Sean McDermott is, and some people insist on ignoring all of his miscues because of regular season win totals and just throw on a surprised face when we melt in the game's biggest moments.

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Last year? How about the first 3 drives for both teams in the three times we have seen them? Did they not score fast enough the previous three tries? 

the conceit is that 'well Mahomes and the Chiefs are in the way, so of course we can't win'

 

which disregards the extent to which we routinely get abused on defense in the postseason. Even a mediocre defensive performance in either 2021 or 2023 would have been enough to get past the Chiefs twice...supposedly McDermott's area of expertise

[mrags]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

As do I and lots of others.  

 

Here's the thing, McDefense has an MO, which has changed since he's been here, several times now, and never lasting more than a couple of seasons, and despite not always fully articulating it, which in and of itself is bizarre.  He let's Allen play to his strengths in the playoffs, but Allen then has to overcome his coach, which is too much, particularly if Allen's not in Superman mode.  We also all know that at some point Allen simply says F-it in games and takes the game into his own hands.  That's not coaching however.  That's Allen taking over.  

 

This complimentary football approach is anything but letting Allen play to his strengths, it's the opposite.  So going into this season anyway, Allen won't be playing to his strengths.  

 

We also get into the roster-building aspect of it as well.  Look at our roster, it's not built to cater to Allen's strengths.  That even assumes that Coleman's even 80% of what people think he is.  So between the two, why on earth would Allen be at his best this season.  There is no known reason other than blind hope.  

 

 

I agree. I think this is going to be a painful year. Unless like last year, McD and Brady just let Allen do his thing and go win games because they are struggling. I 100% believe Allen has a down year. And I’m not sure it’ll be on his weapons but more of the play style that McDermott and Brady implement. I argue we won’t make the playoffs either. Sucks. But that’s my opinion 

[frostbitmic]

McDermott has been the HC for 6 years now so I don't expect any changes from him.

 

For the most part he has turned a team that avoided the playoffs like the plague into winning four straight AFC East titles. That's nothing to get upset about. Though if I could I'd have him head for the locker room with 5 minutes to go, his prevent defense only prevents the team from winning.