McDermott Growth/Expectations

[Lfod]

I love McDermott as a HC. I think he has grown as a HC. I respect his process. The last few runs had real Super Bowl potential in them if you ask me. 

 

The team has been playoff caliber. Josh Allen didnt want to date Taylor Swift and thats not on coach. 

 

Put some faith in this guy he deserves it.

 

 

 

Edited May 20 by Lfod

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Coaches with super bowl championships - 

 

Reid - Best coach, coaching staff, GM, and QB in the league.  It is going to be hard to win a super bowl with Allen.

John Harbaugh - Won in 2013 - 3-6 in playoff games since

McCarthy - Won in 2010 - 6-9 in playoff games since

Payton - Won in 2009 - 5-7 in playoff games since

Pederson - Won in 2017 - 2-3 in playoff games since and missed playoffs in 2/5 seasons

McVay - Won in 2021 - Missed playoffs in 2022 and 0-1 in playoffs since

Tomlin - Won in 2008 - 5-9 in playoffs since, hasn't won a playoff game since 2016-2017

[Logic]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If Super Bowl victories are your only metric for caliber of coaching, that's your problem.

I totally agree.

But what an objectively hilarious sentence to post in a discussion in which you're trying to prove that Sean McDermott is a bad coach. Sean McDermott, who boasts a great career winning percentage, has made the playoffs six out of seven seasons, and won four straight division titles, and whose ONLY bugaboo so far is lack of a Super Bowl victory.

By your own standard, which you just summed up so eloquently, you must agree that Sean McDermott is a high caliber coach. Yes?

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Really? 

 

Shanahan's done notably better with Purdy and Garropalo. 

Lewis did better with Dalton.  

Joe Gibbs did phenominally with Rypien, Williams, and Theismann, none of which are even in the conversation with Allen.  

Johnson did incredibly better with Aikman.  

Harbaugh did notably better with Flacco.  

 

There are others.  

 

 

 

That is simply not true. 

 

You're implying that Reid was no better in the playoffs with McNabb than McD's been with Allen, which is ridiculously false.  

 

Just look up their playoff records and performances in each of their first 7 seasons.  

 

That's such an intellectually lazy defense.  

 

 

  Intellectually lazy, LOL   Did he win a SB with the Eagles?

[Royale with Cheese]

32 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Bill Belichick went 11-5 with matt Cassel, He dragged Mac Jones tot he playoffs kicking and screaming.

Kyle Shanahan has people thinking Jimmy Garoppolo might be the next elite QB in the NFL for a minute and now he's doing the same with Brock Purdy. We all know how Jimmy turned out.

Great coaches get the best out of their players, but you can't get gold from *****.


Bad counter argument.

 

Belicheck has coached a total of 9 seasons without Brady and is well below .500 coaching record.

 

And you choose a year in which he didn't make the playoffs and the season in which the Bills put up 7 consecutive TD's in that playoff game??

 

And you are saying Belicheck gets the best out of players....why couldn't he do it for more than 1 season with Mac Jones and Matt Cassell?

 

Shanahan is a good argument...not Belicheck.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

Most of my friends hate McD. I gently remind them of 17 years of futility that has been replaced by expectations of winning every year 🤷

sounds like you are a huge fan of Josh 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Really? 

 

Shanahan's done notably better with Purdy and Garropalo. 

Lewis did better with Dalton.  

Joe Gibbs did phenominally with Rypien, Williams, and Theismann, none of which are even in the conversation with Allen.  

Johnson did incredibly better with Aikman.  

Harbaugh did notably better with Flacco.  

 

There are others.  

 

 

 

That is simply not true. 

 

You're implying that Reid was no better in the playoffs with McNabb than McD's been with Allen, which is ridiculously false.  

 

Just look up their playoff records and performances in each of their first 7 seasons.  

 

That's such an intellectually lazy defense.  

 

 

 

How did Lewis do better with Dalton?  He went 0-7 in the playoffs as a HC and has lower regular season record percentage.  

Mark Rypien won the MVP that year and wasn't a good QB the rest of his career.  

Aikman is a first ballot Hall of Famer....come on.  Potentially the greatest offensive line of all time.  They had what...8 Hall of Famers on that team?

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Logic said:

The burden of proof is on the accuser. 

Thus far, I've at least provided career win percentage statistics. You've provided nothing of substance to back up your claim.

I'd love to hear what, specifically, makes Sean McDermott just like Jauron. 

Please enlighten us.

Your career win percentage stats are completely irrelevant, because the overwhelming majority of McD's stats are with Josh Allen at the Helm. He has one full season and another 5 games that he played without Josh Allen. He was 10-11 over that span with one playoff appearance that was a loss. Obviously it's not a horrible percentage, but it's highly volatile with numbers that small. A couple games in either direction have massive percentage point swings.

What makes McDermott like Jauron is his general philosophy that high level execution is the most important factor in winning football games, while at the same time being unable to get his team to execute at a high level with consistency. The difference is that talent, namely Allen, has won this team a ton of football games even when they aren't executing. Jauron didn't have that luxury. I think when you look at our various defensive collapses over McDermott's tenure, where Allen is not able to bail him out, or you look at our penalties against, you can see evidence of our team not doing the one thing that's supposed to be McDermott's forte. Couple that with his poor time management and poor challenge judgement (admittedly less important) and I just don't see a coach who executes at a high level when that's supossed to be his thing.

Of course, many coaches like Belichick, Shanahan, Reid, have all had teams with very high levels of execution over the years, especially Belichick, but each of those coaches also bring a tremendous knowledge of the game paired with a strategic vision and tactical plan that put their team in the best position to win possible.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Let's list the coaches that have a better record than him in the last 7 years:  Andy Reid end of list

Who does he lose in the playoffs to:  Andy Reid mostly.

Who else struggle vs Reid in the playoffs:  Shanahan

Let's list the coaches with playoff wins the last 4 years:  Andy Reid and Sean McDermott

A 5-6 playoff record is not what you want but the 6 tells you he made the playoffs 6 times, the 5 shows you he has won a playoff game 5 times, playoff wins are hard to come by.

 

You can spin things many ways.  Have the Bills not gotten over the hump in the playoffs?  Yes.  Same issue Reid had for years.   I am open to hearing who we want to replace him with but it will be someone who is coaching another team or has not had the level of performance McDermott has had.  Too often stumbles against lesser teams?  Compare with the rest of the league first.   They win more than any team except 1.   When you really break down McDermott vs Reid it is close excpet McD has the edge in regular season and Reid in the playoffs.  Playoffs are what matters but its not like he is getting blown out of the water, the games, all of them come down to a play here or a play there, at least the last 4 have.

We are halfway through this ride and haven’t come particularly close. At some point that’s got to be a problem.

[BullBuchanan]

17 minutes ago, Logic said:

I totally agree.

But what an objectively hilarious sentence to post in a discussion in which you're trying to prove that Sean McDermott is a bad coach. Sean McDermott, who boasts a great career winning percentage, has made the playoffs six out of seven seasons, and won four straight division titles, and whose ONLY bugaboo so far is lack of a Super Bowl victory.

By your own standard, which you just summed up so eloquently, you must agree that Sean McDermott is a high caliber coach. Yes?

I'm not trying to prove he's a bad coach though. I don't think Dick Jauron was a "bad" coach. I think they're both extremely mid, with McDermott being a little better.

[Heitz]

26 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Coaches with super bowl championships - 

 

Reid - Best coach, coaching staff, GM, and QB in the league.  It is going to be hard to win a super bowl with Allen.

John Harbaugh - Won in 2013 - 3-6 in playoff games since

McCarthy - Won in 2010 - 6-9 in playoff games since

Payton - Won in 2009 - 5-7 in playoff games since

Pederson - Won in 2017 - 2-3 in playoff games since and missed playoffs in 2/5 seasons

McVay - Won in 2021 - Missed playoffs in 2022 and 0-1 in playoffs since

Tomlin - Won in 2008 - 5-9 in playoffs since, hasn't won a playoff game since 2016-2017

 

FIRE THEM ALL!

 

Also, at his age, McD is probably as tall as he's going to get, not sure we should expect a growth spurt... 🤔

[Fan in San Diego]

I like McD for the most part. The 13 second game I put on Frazier more than McD. My issues with McD is hanging on to Tyler Bass. The guy average to below average and has cost us some games. I hope he finds us a better kicker. Also we should have kept Matt Ariaza. That will bite us in butt this year.

 

[T master]

3 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

Most of my friends hate McD. I gently remind them of 17 years of futility that has been replaced by expectations of winning every year 🤷

 

Not to mention he has the second highest winning total second only to the chiefs in the entire NFL and there are people here that want him fired ???

 

Their moms must have dropped them on their heads as infants ...

Edited May 20 by T master

[Mikie2times]

The only coaches in NFL history with a .600 or better winning % an no Super Bowl, NFL Championship, or conference championship are Marty, Lafleur, and McD. 

 

When you move that goal post to .550 the list includes. 

  

 

Mike Smith

Don Coryell

Mike Zimmer

Wade Phillips

Jason Garrett

Chuck Knox

Kevin Stefanski

Chuck Pagano

 

He has the best QB out of anybody on either list and by a mile in most instances. Do something to change it. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

  Intellectually lazy, LOL   Did he win a SB with the Eagles?

 

Yes, intellectually lazy if that's the extent of your research.  

 

 

2 hours ago, mrags said:

100% this happens. He turtles so much in the playoffs. 

 

Is it turtling, or simply being out-schemed and out-coached in the playoffs by peers that are notably better than he is, which raises the question as to how good he truly is apart from having Allen cover up a lot of the weak links.  

 

I realize that's just a term, but it seems that at that level, against the best, and where Allen's talent alone isn't enough to beat some schlep team or a good team on pure talent disparity, but only in the regular season, he's simply out-coached.  

 

 

[boater]

A McD hate thread guised as an objective analysis. We haven't seen one in a long time.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Bill Belichick went 11-5 with matt Cassel, He dragged Mac Jones tot he playoffs kicking and screaming.

Kyle Shanahan has people thinking Jimmy Garoppolo might be the next elite QB in the NFL for a minute and now he's doing the same with Brock Purdy. We all know how Jimmy turned out.

Great coaches get the best out of their players, but you can't get gold from *****.


Bad counter argument.

And McDermott dragged Tyrod Taylor to the playoffs.  He has had one losing season in his career and it was Allen's rookie year.

 

Belichick got fired after 2 more years with Mac Jones.  

 

Ask @PBF81 about how much credit Belichick should get for going 11-5 with Cassel when Sparano won the division that year playing the same schedule.

 

Lazy initial argument, bad counter.

 

So I guess Shanahan is the only objectively good coach in the modern NFL and everyone else just got lucky with a franchise QB. 

[PBF81]

51 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

The only coaches in NFL history with a .600 or better winning % an no Super Bowl, NFL Championship, or conference championship are Marty, Lafleur, and McD. 

 

When you move that goal post to .550 the list includes. 

  

 

Mike Smith

Don Coryell

Mike Zimmer

Wade Phillips

Jason Garrett

Chuck Knox

Kevin Stefanski

Chuck Pagano

 

He has the best QB out of anybody on either list and by a mile in most instances. Do something to change it. 

 

Schottenheimer has a similar playoff record in his first seven seasons as well, 3-6 to McD's 4-5.   With Kosar and DeBerg in those seasons.  

 

LaFleur is 3-4 in his five seasons as HC.  ... with Rodgers and Love in his first season.  

 

But you're absolutely correct, that's the company he's in.  

 

Also, how many of those coaches featured #1, 2, or 4 Defenses regularly on top of that.  

 

 

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

And McDermott dragged Tyrod Taylor to the playoffs.  He has had one losing season in his career and it was Allen's rookie year.

 

Belichick got fired after 2 more years with Mac Jones.  

 

Ask @PBF81 about how much credit Belichick should get for going 11-5 with Cassel when Sparano won the division that year playing the same schedule.

 

Lazy initial argument, bad counter.

 

So I guess Shanahan is the only objectively good coach in the modern NFL and everyone else just got lucky with a franchise QB. 

 

LOL

 

Boy, you're all over the place.  

 

Too bad that argument exclusively revolved around a comp to Reid.  Not sure what any of the above has to do with the original statement comping McD to Reid in their first seven seasons each.  

 

Also, one correction, I'm pretty sure that it was Dalton to Boyd that dragged Tyrod Taylor to the playoffs.  But let's assume the best, that season's playoff game by McD giving up a 22 points and nearly 200 4th Quarter yards after being up 16-0 with over 17 minutes to play, against a team with one noteworthy offensive skill position player was certainly a coaching masterpiece on the defensive side, wasn't it.  

LOL 

 

 

Edited May 20 by PBF81

[JGMcD2]

21 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

So I guess Shanahan is the only objectively good coach in the modern NFL and everyone else just got lucky with a franchise QB. 

Let's also ignore that he handpicked QBs twice and botched it. He's lucky he's been able to get something out of Purdy. 

 

Not many coaches get the chance to take 2 shots at finding their guy...

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Also, one correction, I'm pretty sure that it was Dalton to Boyd that dragged Tyrod Taylor to the playoffs.  That season's playoff game by McD giving up a 22 points and nearly 200 4th Quarter yards after being up 16-0 with over 17 minutes to play, against a team with one noteworthy offensive skill position player was certainly a coaching masterpiece on the defensive side, wasn't it.  

You're mixing up your years, dude.

 

2017 was the Jaguars playoff game. The one where they held the Jaguars to 230 total yards and then the Jags went on to post almost 400 yards against Pittsburgh the next week and 300 against the Pats in the AFCCG before Bortles choked it away.

 

LOL

Edited May 20 by JGMcD2