What kind of season are you expecting from Josh Allen this year?

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

Yes it’s time for Josh to be the alpha leader verbally.  I’m sure he’s tired of not getting the same respect as Mahoney, Lamar and Burrow.  It’s his turn to be MVP which means he must be the most verbal player.  

IMO it’s not so much verbal as the demeanor.  He needs to come off as serious.  It’s ok to have fun and he can’t lose his personality but it can’t be all fun all the time and then Mr. pouty on the sidelines when someone like Diggs wants to win.  A lot has been made of Diggs/Allen falling out or whatever it was but the part that makes me curious is Morse.  He’s a serious guy who is serious about his craft and out the door he went.  Salary cap?  Sure but why not rework it?  I thought he might retire because of the concussion stuff but he signed elsewhere in six minutes.  Maybe Diggs wasn’t the only one frustrated with Josh’s approach.

[MikePJ76]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

IMO it’s not so much verbal as the demeanor.  He needs to come off as serious.  It’s ok to have fun and he can’t lose his personality but it can’t be all fun all the time and then Mr. pouty on the sidelines when someone like Diggs wants to win.  A lot has been made of Diggs/Allen falling out or whatever it was but the part that makes me curious is Morse.  He’s a serious guy who is serious about his craft and out the door he went.  Salary cap?  Sure but why not rework it?  I thought he might retire because of the concussion stuff but he signed elsewhere in six minutes.  Maybe Diggs wasn’t the only one frustrated with Josh’s approach.

I'm sorry but are you proposing that Morse wanted to get cut and go play somewhere else because he didn't want to play with Josh Allen?

 

You are saying in effect he wanted to leave one of the best fanbases and best quarterbacks in the game so that he could go sign in one of the worst parts of the worst part of the country and play with a lesser player on a team with almost no fanbase.

 

and you are saying that he somehow had something to do with getting cut in Buffalo in order to do this.

 

Did you seriously understand what you were typing?  

[Thurman#1]

Hopefully a bit better. I think there's a good chance of it. Last year he wasn't quite as good.

 

A good deal of that may well be that defenses have figured out how not just to slow him down but how to do it better. Same with the other long-ball terrific QBs such as Mahomes. I don't think it's a coincidence he also had a down year.

 

Hopefully he's taking ball more seriously this off-season. I think there's a decent chance of that.

 

Defenses will force him to play possession ball and throw mostly shorter passes. Which isn't quite his game, but it's something he can do very well when he decides to. But it will depend how well the new playbook meets Josh's game, and how well the other players on the offense play around him.

 

My guess: a little bit better.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

IMO it’s not so much verbal as the demeanor.  He needs to come off as serious.  It’s ok to have fun and he can’t lose his personality but it can’t be all fun all the time and then Mr. pouty on the sidelines when someone like Diggs wants to win.  A lot has been made of Diggs/Allen falling out or whatever it was but the part that makes me curious is Morse.  He’s a serious guy who is serious about his craft and out the door he went.  Salary cap?  Sure but why not rework it?  I thought he might retire because of the concussion stuff but he signed elsewhere in six minutes.  Maybe Diggs wasn’t the only one frustrated with Josh’s approach.

 

 

Don't really see that with Morse at all.

 

Of course he signed quickly. He is a good player and it's not surprising there were quick offers. As long as he wanted to keep playing, it was to be expected that he signed elsewhere quickly.

 

I don't have the slightest doubt that they didn't want to let him go but the money and the need to get younger resulted in letting him go. They were $40M over the cap at that point.

 

Five days isn't six minutes. He had time to consider, plan and act.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, MikePJ76 said:

I'm sorry but are you proposing that Morse wanted to get cut and go play somewhere else because he didn't want to play with Josh Allen?

 

You are saying in effect he wanted to leave one of the best fanbases and best quarterbacks in the game so that he could go sign in one of the worst parts of the worst part of the country and play with a lesser player on a team with almost no fanbase.

 

and you are saying that he somehow had something to do with getting cut in Buffalo in order to do this.

 

Did you seriously understand what you were typing?  

I pointed out that we lost several leaders that have serious demeanors and retained the goofball personalities.  That could create a real leadership void.  Was Morse the only viable option to create cap space?  Was personality conflict involved in the equation?  We don’t know this but we do know that Morse and Diggs are serious while Dion, Josh, and Knox are goofy.  Maybe Josh leaned on the more mature people too much and management decided to force him to grow up a little by creating a void. That is why I’m not expecting a great start to the season but am hopeful for a good second half with a more complete Josh who is focused on being his best at his profession.

[MasterStrategist]

15 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL, of course it does.  But it was pretty conservative at the end of last season, starting on Brady's watch.  More conservative than it's been since Allen broke out.  That's either one humongous coincidence or something closer to this season's reality.  

 

 

 

His offenses in Carolina were ranked 24th and 29th in Scoring and 21st and 30th in Yardage.  To the original point.  We can say he's not mystery meat, but he's hardly Ben Johnson either.  

 

 

 

We'll find out.  Of course Cook got too many touches, but it was known when we drafted him that he was unlikely to be able to handle that workload.  His collegiate max was 140, he had twice that last season, but that's about where his play began to diminish.  But they continued to pound him even though his yards-per-carry average fell off by nearly 30%.  

 

So where are we placing responsibility for that miscue?  McD?  Beane?  ??  Who was the genius that couldn't conceive that when many of us warned about it upon drafting him and some people even had it in their draft profiles?  It wasn't exactly expert analysis to piece that one together.  

 

What's in Davis' dossier that suggests he's capable of playing to at least an average level in the NFL as such?  Nothing in his draft profiles, so what?  Moss and Sing both had greater draft profile potentials.  

 

 

 

It seems that this is where they're going.  So riddle me this, since when has this been in Allen's repertoire?   College or pro.  The short correct answer is that it never has been.  In the short-medium game, Allen's average at best and not equal to his peers.  So once again, if that's true, that's why A, many are concerned, but more relevantly to the discussion, many question the use of Allen.  

 

Perhaps more importantly, how is that going to help open up the running lanes for Allen?  Is it a real reach to consider that if we're running an offense like that, his lanes may be more crowded?  This is common sense stuff, right?  

 

What did they say when the drafted him?  What, that he'd be great in the short-medium screen game?  Hardly.  ALL the talk was about his strong arm and how he could make every throw even while on the move.  Does that seem like the approach that they're taking?  

 

We also brought in Hines, one of the most prolific pass-catching RBs in NFL history, and you see how we used him in that regard after talking a great game in trading for him.  Nada.  They didn't use him at all.  Singletary had better credentials in the receiving game and we just threw him overboard.  Can we expect similar genius this season?  

 

It might be wise to pump the brakes emotionally in this way.  Our team has a strong history under McBeane of saying one thing and doing another, quite often the polar opposite.  

 

 

 

We don't know exactly, but we have some clues.  We'll see.  But we can't have it both ways, that the reason for the drop in production at the end of last season, the last 30% of the season, was because Brady was still using Dorsey's offense, while on the other hand all the reason for our wins had to do with Brady's offense.  Surely you can see the illogic there.  

 

 

 

Thanks, and yeah, that'd be fun.  Let me know.  Just note the time stamps and we can discuss further.  

 

 

Key thing on all of this is that we have zero sample size on a Brady-led scheme will look like, and a full offseason geared toward practicing the install.

 

I think above factors into basically everything we are going back and forth on. 

 

His Carolina time was with a terrible OL and pedestrian QBs.  Even if we use LY, there are so many variables behind the scenes that it makes it impossible to forecast results for this year.  We do know Josh had a below avg season, for his standard.

 

Re: Cook LY, I think the Beane plan was to use Harris and Murray as a 2a/2b combo, and not put so much on Cook.  But then Harris goes down, and Murray was clearly washed.  I'd put that mistake on Beane.  But it's not like Cook didn't have a great year.  It's just that I think he won't be used as much this year, if Davis shows out early

[FireChans]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:17 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

Welcome to the first ever "Question of the day" thread proposed by @BuffaloBill!  It's an honor to kick this off for TSW and thought there was no better place to start than a question about our best and most important player, Josh Allen.  

 

There has been a lot of discussion this offseason about the WR position, but there are more changes around Josh and this offense than just who the receivers are (or aren't).  Josh will also have a new center for the first time in a long time, and there is a chance it could be a rookie in SVPG and Joe Brady is going to now truly install his own offense here rather than manage it around Dorseys when he took over last year.  

 

So now that we have a pretty good idea on personnel between draft and signings, do you think Allen will be better, worse, or about the same as he has been the past 2 seasons?  

I don’t know if Josh will personally be better or worse. I think i could see his rushing totals be even better and his passing totals dip.

 

I think there’s a strong chance for an MVP award. With the general consensus around the Bills offense being a bunch of JAGs and Allen, if he drags this team to the playoffs and a relatively high seed again, I think he’s an easy vote. 
 

+800 is good money rn 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I don’t know if Josh will personally be better or worse. I think i could see his rushing totals be even better and his passing totals dip.

 

I think there’s a strong chance for an MVP award. With the general consensus around the Bills offense being a bunch of JAGs and Allen, if he drags this team to the playoffs and a relatively high seed again, I think he’s an easy vote. 
 

+800 is good money rn 

id save you money tbh

 

he was excellent last season w the 2seed and only got 1 vote

 

its a team award at this point

[Gregg]

Happy Birthday Josh. 28 today.

[FireChans]

33 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

id save you money tbh

 

he was excellent last season w the 2seed and only got 1 vote

 

its a team award at this point

Nah it’s a narrative award. The Bills narrative was doomed when we went 6-6 to start the season.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Nah it’s a narrative award. The Bills narrative was doomed when we went 6-6 to start the season.

that's my point tho

 

MVP is team dependent...I don't think the Bills will be in the running for top seed this yr

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Key thing on all of this is that we have zero sample size on a Brady-led scheme will look like, and a full offseason geared toward practicing the install.

 

I think above factors into basically everything we are going back and forth on. 

 

Agree, of course it does.  

 

 

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

His Carolina time was with a terrible OL and pedestrian QBs.  Even if we use LY, there are so many variables behind the scenes that it makes it impossible to forecast results for this year.  We do know Josh had a below avg season, for his standard.

 

Thanks on Josh, but he played worse under Brady, which few seem to acknowledge.  At least metrically.  

 

As to Brady's time in Carolina, here's the thing, posting horrific stats with less than stellar talent in no ways suggests, or even approaches suggesting, that with good talent, he'll be good much less great.  Bridgewater wasn't terrible, he simply wasn't much better than average on a good day.  Darnold was destined to be awful before he was ever drafted.  Never saw the interest in him.  If Brady were any good there, it's hardly a reach to expect him to take an offense with Bridgewater, DJ Moore, Robbie Chosen who posted his best season ever that year, and Samuel, whom many claim will be a difference-maker here, to something other than the 24th ranked offense there.  24th, ... to add some perspective there, Chicago was 23rd with Foles and Trubisky starting in Chicago, and Washington with three different starting QBs that season, none of which are considered to be anything but backup caliber, was 25th.  It only gets worse from there.  

 

 

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Re: Cook LY, I think the Beane plan was to use Harris and Murray as a 2a/2b combo, and not put so much on Cook.  But then Harris goes down, and Murray was clearly washed.  I'd put that mistake on Beane.  But it's not like Cook didn't have a great year.  It's just that I think he won't be used as much this year, if Davis shows out early

 

Well, who knows what the Beane plan was, or is for that matter.  Those guys rarely come clean, and we're always signing players saying one thing but then doing another.  

 

Consider, we just unloaded Singletary, who did what they're expecting Davis, a 4th round rookie with fewer collegiate accolades, to now do, after jettisoning Singletary while saying that they were going with Cook & speed.  Now it's different again.  

 

And to rehash, we traded for Hines, who's one of the most prolific pass-catching RBs in the league right now, and was, stating how he'd really bolster our passing game, and threw passes to him at a rate of a fourth of his career average.  

 

We also had our entire OL perfectly healthy all season.  I wouldn't bet a plug nickel that that happens again.  Right now our issue is going to be talent, and scheming to get the most of it.  It all starts with Allen.  So we'll see.  

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

20 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree, of course it does.  

 

 

 

Thanks on Josh, but he played worse under Brady, which few seem to acknowledge.  At least metrically.  

 

As to Brady's time in Carolina, here's the thing, posting horrific stats with less than stellar talent in no ways suggests, or even approaches suggesting, that with good talent, he'll be good much less great.  Bridgewater wasn't terrible, he simply wasn't much better than average on a good day.  Darnold was destined to be awful before he was ever drafted.  Never saw the interest in him.  If Brady were any good there, it's hardly a reach to expect him to take an offense with Bridgewater, DJ Moore, Robbie Chosen who posted his best season ever that year, and Samuel, whom many claim will be a difference-maker here, to something other than the 24th ranked offense there.  24th, ... to add some perspective there, Chicago was 23rd with Foles and Trubisky starting in Chicago, and Washington with three different starting QBs that season, none of which are considered to be anything but backup caliber, was 25th.  It only gets worse from there.  

 

 

 

Well, who knows what the Beane plan was, or is for that matter.  Those guys rarely come clean, and we're always signing players saying one thing but then doing another.  

 

Consider, we just unloaded Singletary, who did what they're expecting Davis, a 4th round rookie with fewer collegiate accolades, to now do, after jettisoning Singletary while saying that they were going with Cook & speed.  Now it's different again.  

 

And to rehash, we traded for Hines, who's one of the most prolific pass-catching RBs in the league right now, and was, stating how he'd really bolster our passing game, and threw passes to him at a rate of a fourth of his career average.  

 

We also had our entire OL perfectly healthy all season.  I wouldn't bet a plug nickel that that happens again.  Right now our issue is going to be talent, and scheming to get the most of it.  It all starts with Allen.  So we'll see.  

 

 

Re: Brady and impact on Allen/offense, all we have is "hope" and LYs small sample to go off of. 

 

I'm just speaking for myself here, but anyone who is calling Brady a surefire improvement on Dorsey is just being overly optimistic. 

 

Personally, I didnt like Dorsey.  Thought he was ADHD with his playcalling/rhythm.  He had his moments, but something I won't be able to confirm but believe, is something happened in that Bengals game or during the offseason that caused riffs.  He and McD never seemed on the same page to boot, and Allen just plain out "looked" off.  That OC/QB relationship is very important, and it clearly changed during the season.

 

Re Brady, I like his scheme that I saw in Carolina.  Another Josh pick.  I'm mainly hopeful bc of Bradys ability to put together better gameplans (objective opinion) and adjust in-game.  Then what seems to be a very good relationship with Josh.  

 

All unknowns, and I could be way off with my "optimism" but I wouldn't characterize it as over the top.  I didn't think Beane took a good look at external candidates and I hope that's because of what they see in Brady.  But Beane isn't perfect and if he/McD make another OC blunder then someone's head should be on the chopping block 

[Billl]

7 of his 8 highest rushing attempt totals came in the last 8 games.  He ran 46 times in the final 4 games. That’s the difference between Brady and Dorsey.  Josh ran twice as often under Brady. Take from that what you will.

[PBF81]

13 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Re: Brady and impact on Allen/offense, all we have is "hope" and LYs small sample to go off of. 

 

Correct! 

 

13 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

I'm just speaking for myself here, but anyone who is calling Brady a surefire improvement on Dorsey is just being overly optimistic. 

 

I'd say that the majority forum sentiment is that he's a surefire improvement, to date at least.  

 

13 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Personally, I didnt like Dorsey.  Thought he was ADHD with his playcalling/rhythm.  He had his moments, but something I won't be able to confirm but believe, is something happened in that Bengals game or during the offseason that caused riffs.  He and McD never seemed on the same page to boot, and Allen just plain out "looked" off.  That OC/QB relationship is very important, and it clearly changed during the season.

 

This is critically important.  Daboll and McD clearly weren't on the same page either.  There were known blatant issues between the two.  Then it also occurs with Dorsey.  Now Brady, someone that's easier to control, obviously, based upon how Brady ran things once he took over, is in charge. 

 

There's a common theme there, one that many are loath to admit.  

 

13 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

I didn't think Beane took a good look at external candidates and I hope that's because of what they see in Brady.  But Beane isn't perfect and if he/McD make another OC blunder then someone's head should be on the chopping block 

 

This is a rhetorical question, but at what point is that common theme on the chopping block.  

 

Thanks again for engaging!!  

 

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

15 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

that's my point tho

 

MVP is team dependent...I don't think the Bills will be in the running for top seed this yr

I agree that a bet on Allen for MVP is essentially a bet on the Bills to be top seed in AFC, and win the narrative versus counterpart in NFC.  My thought is the Bills are actually going for a discount at the moment, because the onlooker sees a team that’s had a lot of change and has no idea what to expect.  IF Josh and the team actually overcome that and don’t blow tight games like they did in 2023, they could see that jump in record.  Really hoping this team can have some luck this year on the injury front, and that year two of Brady running the offense leads to improved results versus what we were getting with Dorsey calling the shots.

[Alphadawg7]

Interesting, for all the melt down around here all off season about the receivers, only 8% of the poll was "worse" or "worst of his career".  

 

I for one am quite excited to see this group on the field together.  Name of the game is move the chains and then convert TD's instead of FG's in the redzone.  And with Coleman here to go along with the additions of Samuel and Davis to play along side ascending guys like Kincaid and Shakir, I think this offense is poised to be even better in 2024 than it was in 2023.  Especially with Brady getting to really install his offense the way he wants to run it with these tools he gets to work with.  

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Interesting, for all the melt down around here all off season about the receivers, only 8% of the poll was "worse" or "worst of his career".  

 

I for one am quite excited to see this group on the field together.  Name of the game is move the chains and then convert TD's instead of FG's in the redzone.  And with Coleman here to go along with the additions of Samuel and Davis to play along side ascending guys like Kincaid and Shakir, I think this offense is poised to be even better in 2024 than it was in 2023.  Especially with Brady getting to really install his offense the way he wants to run it with these tools he gets to work with.  

I think there’s gonna be a lot of premature grave-dancing, just like there was with Kenny.

 

Kenny started out with that blistering performance v the Rams and then later the league figured him out. The real test for Brady will be in the dog days of December and into 2025, not week 1 imo. 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think there’s gonna be a lot of premature grave-dancing, just like there was with Kenny.

 

Kenny started out with that blistering performance v the Rams and then later the league figured him out. The real test for Brady will be in the dog days of December and into 2025, not week 1 imo. 

 

Obviously its not about week 1 lol, like any OC he needs to show he can do it all year.  But the beauty behind Brady is that his style is one that carries over well.  The biggest thing he did was incorporate movement with purpose to scheme guys open and balance the offense with a run game.  Now this year, we got more weapons who can excel in that style, guys who are smart, unselfish, sure handed, good route runners and we added an exciting young back in Davis who is going to thrive in the run style we showed last year.  I think Davis will play more than people think by years end where it may be a 50/50 split by then, if not sooner, with Cook.  Especially in cold weather and post season games.  

 

23 hours ago, FireChans said:

I don’t know if Josh will personally be better or worse. I think i could see his rushing totals be even better and his passing totals dip.

 

I think there’s a strong chance for an MVP award. With the general consensus around the Bills offense being a bunch of JAGs and Allen, if he drags this team to the playoffs and a relatively high seed again, I think he’s an easy vote. 
 

+800 is good money rn 

 

I don't agree at all that the general consensus is that the team is all "JAGS", but I do agree that Josh will be seen as having to work with a whole new group where there isn't a proven dominant WR1 like he had with Diggs.  

 

But here is my question...especially to someone like you who has been complaining about the weapons around Josh so much.  Let's say Josh wins MVP like you said he might, and I do agree this could be his year as I do think there is a good chance this might be his best year of his career.  

 

Are you going to admit you were wrong about the group around Josh...or are you just going to say what you just said now that "Josh dragged this team" to success and it was all Josh because he had nothing but "JAGS" around him?  

Edited May 22 by Alphadawg7

[FireChans]

48 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Obviously its not about week 1 lol, like any OC he needs to show he can do it all year.  But the beauty behind Brady is that his style is one that carries over well.  The biggest thing he did was incorporate movement with purpose to scheme guys open and balance the offense with a run game.  Now this year, we got more weapons who can excel in that style, guys who are smart, unselfish, sure handed, good route runners and we added an exciting young back in Davis who is going to thrive in the run style we showed last year.  I think Davis will play more than people think by years end where it may be a 50/50 split by then, if not sooner, with Cook.  Especially in cold weather and post season games.  

 

 

I don't agree at all that the general consensus is that the team is all "JAGS", but I do agree that Josh will be seen as having to work with a whole new group where there isn't a proven dominant WR1 like he had with Diggs.  

 

But here is my question...especially to someone like you who has been complaining about the weapons around Josh so much.  Let's say Josh wins MVP like you said he might, and I do agree this could be his year as I do think there is a good chance this might be his best year of his career.  

 

Are you going to admit you were wrong about the group around Josh...or are you just going to say what you just said now that "Josh dragged this team" to success and it was all Josh because he had nothing but "JAGS" around him?  

It depends on how well the guys around him do. If everyone is a 600-800 yard guy and they get smoked in the playoffs because the guys can’t get open vs man, I’ll probably still call them JAGS.

 

If a dude like Shakir drops a 1200 yard season on good efficiency, I’ll probably agree he’s a pretty good weapon.