Historical Fiction: How would drought coaches have fared with Josh Allen?

[DCofNC]

24 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

EJ was better statistically than Josh in every passing metric through their first year. Literally yards per game, tds, interceptions, completion percentage, not sure how you think Josh looked better though his first 8 games, EJ progressively did less and less because Marrone told him to not lose games. Josh was allowed to grow and finally had a good game as a QB vs Miami in final game of season. Your love of Marrone makes you unaware of even the most basic statistics. 

Wow man, just tell us all you have no idea what you are watching.

[Sweats]

Dick "we punted well" Jauron?

[Fan in Chicago]

42 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

EJ was better statistically than Josh in every passing metric through their first year. Literally yards per game, tds, interceptions, completion percentage, not sure how you think Josh looked better though his first 8 games, EJ progressively did less and less because Marrone told him to not lose games. Josh was allowed to grow and finally had a good game as a QB vs Miami in final game of season. Your love of Marrone makes you unaware of even the most basic statistics. 

You cannot be serious with this take. 

11 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Doug Marrone with Jim Schwartz at DC would've had a great team and broken the drought.

Marrone's choice of OC would have sunk that marriage. A rookie OC to pair with a rookie QB would have seriously hampered Allen's development and probably destroyed his career. 

[Chaos]

7 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

You cannot be serious with this take. 

Marrone's choice of OC would have sunk that marriage. A rookie OC to pair with a rookie QB would have seriously hampered Allen's development and probably destroyed his career. 

I don’t buy much into the development myth. Who gets the credit for Allen in that narrative? Daboll?  Because Daboll’s qb development success stories seem pretty much limited to Allen. having said that, Nate Hacket seems awful 

[Gregg]

I am curious to see how Belichick would fare with Allen. We will never know but IMHO a Lombardi would come to Buffalo.

[corta765]

15 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I've always thought that the Fitz-Fred relationship fueled that 2011 team.  Fred was the MVP in 2011 until he broke his leg, after which nothing was quite the same.  Fitz got run outta town on a rail for EJ, we wound up with 3rd and puss, Maroon, and Wrex, perpetuating the drought for four more years.

2011 was kind of the max though for that offense with Chan. They finished 14th overall ypg but following year fell back into late teens early 20s.  The Bills talent base from 2008-2012 really lagged across the board and I am not sure any coach could have done a lot there. Missed draft picks and basically begging FAs to come here didn't go very well. If there is a time where I thought the teams uncertainty of staying really hurt them competitively it was the 2007ish time frame until the new stadium lease in 2012. We couldn't get any decent coach to come near here, the free agents signed usually were guys on the back end like TO or Merriman where it was more name then skill, and org was more focused on viability in the region the 100% focused on winning at all costs. Any time they did get a night game you could pencil a clip of Jim Kelly or some 90s HOF on the sideline as part of the attention on the team. The 2010 coaching search was really sad and depressing when any decent name said no and then it was Chan (great guy really did like him in that regard) who was quote "their first choice". The NFL really sells hope well because those offseasons you could convince yourself it was different and the drought was going to end, in retrospect they were so far away from being near a normal NFL team. 

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

EJ was better statistically than Josh in every passing metric through their first year. Literally yards per game, tds, interceptions, completion percentage, not sure how you think Josh looked better though his first 8 games, EJ progressively did less and less because Marrone told him to not lose games. Josh was allowed to grow and finally had a good game as a QB vs Miami in final game of season. Your love of Marrone makes you unaware of even the most basic statistics. 

This is your problem: you're buried in stats. Meanwhile, those of us who watched both of them play every week could see a huge difference between Josh & EJ ON THE FIELD. Rookie Josh played behind one of the worst O-lines in team history and maybe had the worst group of WRs too. Robert Foster was the team's best receiver and after 2018 disappeared. Of course ,statistically Josh looked bad, but in the real world, On the field, there was no comparison. EJ would have been lucky to win 2 games with that horrible offense. Josh won half the games he started and finished. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

20 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

This is your problem: you're buried in stats. Meanwhile, those of us who watched both of them play every week could see a huge difference between Josh & EJ ON THE FIELD. Rookie Josh played behind one of the worst O-lines in team history and maybe had the worst group of WRs too. Robert Foster was the team's best receiver and after 2018 disappeared. Of course ,statistically Josh looked bad, but in the real world, On the field, there was no comparison. EJ would have been lucky to win 2 games with that horrible offense. Josh won half the games he started and finished. 

I am not sure what y'all had as an opinion in 2018, but I was one of the minority who argued to give Josh a chance. I knew he was gonna suck early, he made bad choices his first half of the year hence why when he was hurt against Houston he was completing 52% of his passes for 137 yards a game and had 5 picks to 2 tds. Without good coaching and a large allowance to learn while sucking Josh is never given a chance. By the end of the year I knew he had grown substantially and argued on this site that he was gonna be a top 15 QB in 2019 and got obliterated, so pretending that many people thought he was good in 2018 is disingenuous, I even was called a racist for stating in 2019 I would rather have Josh than Lamar for the future. EJ looked like a top 15 QB early in his rookie year and regressed, which I put on the coach telling him not to lose the games instead of learn the game. You, and several others, also seem to think the 2013 defense was good. The Bills won every single game that the team gave up less than 23 points. 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

You cannot be serious with this take. 

Marrone's choice of OC would have sunk that marriage. A rookie OC to pair with a rookie QB would have seriously hampered Allen's development and probably destroyed his career. 

Who knows, unless you can point to a history of rookie OCs and rookie QBs together to show a trend. Who knows if they even stick with Hackett in this alternate reality.

[LABILLBACKER]

Chan would clearly had the most success with Josh. He would've identified quickly the importance of surrounding Josh with a good OL & weapons early. The defensive guys probably would've stressed defense just like Derm has.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:12 AM, KingBoots8 said:

Greggggg: “Thanks, Wade. I’ll take it from here. I’m gonna completely revamp this team and still find a way to lose, but we are gonna hit our opponents $uper hard.”
 

Mularkey: “I’ve got a good QB, and I’ve got a gameplan. There’s absolutely no way a Third-String Steelers team can beat us now, right? RIGHT?!?
 

Jauron: “Hey Josh, we can’t make effective punts if you keep getting us touchdowns. I’m gonna need you to hold off a bit and throw more check downs please.”

 

Chan: “I didn’t play Josh because it wasn’t his turn.”

 

Saint Doug: “I mean, he’s ok, but can we take a second and acknowledge how awesome I am for just a moment? I drew that play up myself. I’m like, a hero or something. Bow before your new God… and can I take my dinner to go?
 

Rex: “Yeah, did you see the feet on that guy? I bet he has a REAL hard time buying sneakers off the rack… I’m gonna get a tattoo of his big toe on my calf… oh shoot, I forgot to call a play before the clock expired…”

LMAO.  Thing is I bet we break the streak with Rex if we had Allen.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

22 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Chan would clearly had the most success with Josh. He would've identified quickly the importance of surrounding Josh with a good OL & weapons early. The defensive guys probably would've stressed defense just like Derm has.  

I love when people don’t believe a strong consistent defense doesn’t help a young QB.

 

Also Chan was basically the only coach to have overachievers as his top WRs. Chan was the best play caller but he thought he could do it with any WRs.

 

Marone and Whaley went Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods in back to back seasons to build around EJ. And they put a strong defense and running game around the QB. 

Edited May 21 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GoBills808]

going to ask again

 

are we dropping the drought era coach into the 2024 bills or are we dropping 2024 allen into the drought

[Chaos]

59 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

going to ask again

 

are we dropping the drought era coach into the 2024 bills or are we dropping 2024 allen into the drought

Dropping Allen into the drought.  So Brady is a thing.  But it is equally interesting to discuss giving each drought coaches six full seasons with Josh in the post Brady ere. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

7 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

EJ was better statistically than Josh in every passing metric through their first year. Literally yards per game, tds, interceptions, completion percentage, not sure how you think Josh looked better though his first 8 games, EJ progressively did less and less because Marrone told him to not lose games. Josh was allowed to grow and finally had a good game as a QB vs Miami in final game of season. Your love of Marrone makes you unaware of even the most basic statistics. 

 

Statistical data are useless unless you know how to interpret them.

 

During Allen's first year, he had arguably the worst OL in franchise history. Kelvin Benjamin and Andre Holmes were the worst pair of starting WRs I've ever seen, on any NFL team. Zay Jones wasn't much better. During the offseason, the starter's reps had been given to Nate Peterman, not Josh Allen. Anything you could possibly think of to set a QB up to fail, the Bills did to Allen. What effect do you think all that had on Allen's rookie stats?

 

When I watched Manuel's college highlight reel, there was nothing special there. The throws he made were throws I'd expect of any average college QB. Allen's college highlight reel was cut from an entirely different cloth.

 

Manuel was the same guy in the NFL as he was in college. He was the same guy in year 4 or 5 of his NFL career as he'd been as a rookie.

[Orlando Buffalo]

37 minutes ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

Statistical data are useless unless you know how to interpret them.

 

During Allen's first year, he had arguably the worst OL in franchise history. Kelvin Benjamin and Andre Holmes were the worst pair of starting WRs I've ever seen, on any NFL team. Zay Jones wasn't much better. During the offseason, the starter's reps had been given to Nate Peterman, not Josh Allen. Anything you could possibly think of to set a QB up to fail, the Bills did to Allen. What effect do you think all that had on Allen's rookie stats?

 

When I watched Manuel's college highlight reel, there was nothing special there. The throws he made were throws I'd expect of any average college QB. Allen's college highlight reel was cut from an entirely different cloth.

 

Manuel was the same guy in the NFL as he was in college. He was the same guy in year 4 or 5 of his NFL career as he'd been as a rookie.

What interpretation makes 137 yards passing per game with 5 picks vs 2 tds seem good to you? 

[TheWeatherMan]

On 5/20/2024 at 2:19 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. It might not be popular with some but we don't just have a better QB than all of those years we have a better Head Coach too. Josh is a bigger and more important upgrade than Sean is. But they are both definitively better than what went before.

Better GM, Better QB…sure, but I’m not sold McDermott is a better HC than all of the coaches of the dark ages.  
 

Every QB the Bills had was a bottom 5 QB with the exception of Fitz who was average at best.  Some of those defenses were absolutely stacked.  You put Josh with Stevie, TO, Fred Jackson, and I’m sure they make the playoffs.  McDermott only had to deal with 2 years of the Pats dynasty under Brady and went 0-4.  Not a chance McD takes the 2001-2015 Bills to the playoffs.  

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:31 AM, oldmanfan said:

Gailey would have been a good coach for Josh.  I wonder if Mularkey would have done well with him.

Mularkey would have done OK as long as they were playing sub-.500 teams

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Better GM, Better QB…sure, but I’m not sold McDermott is a better HC than all of the coaches of the dark ages.  
 

Every QB the Bills had was a bottom 5 QB with the exception of Fitz who was average at best.  Some of those defenses were absolutely stacked.  You put Josh with Stevie, TO, Fred Jackson, and I’m sure they make the playoffs.  McDermott only had to deal with 2 years of the Pats dynasty under Brady and went 0-4.  Not a chance McD takes the 2001-2015 Bills to the playoffs.  

 

 

Totally disagree. McDermott makes the playoffs with at least 4 of the drought rosters IMO. There are at least 4 rosters that were better than the 2017 team. 

 

Now we might have been 0 for in the playoffs. That is fair. But he would have broken the drought way sooner. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

1 hour ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

What interpretation makes 137 yards passing per game with 5 picks vs 2 tds seem good to you? 

 

Reread my post for an answer to your question.