Historical Fiction: How would drought coaches have fared with Josh Allen?

[Gregg]

Just now, Dr. K said:

Rex was a clown. He destroyed the defense he inherited. 

 

True but he did have some really good years with the Jets and that was with Mark Sanchez as his QB.

[dorquemada]

I'd like to see what Chan would do with an O like this - outside of Allen no superstars, but a bunch of guys who can catch the ball, and a couple guys who can catch out of the backfield.  It would be fun to watch!

 

 

 

[PBF81]

Shouldn't the question be whether or not McD is getting more out of Allen than the other coaches would have?  

 

Why would a defensive-mind head coach with all but zero knowledge of offense possibly be in the running for such a distinction?  

 

The other question should be, how many games/season is Allen pretty much singlehandedly responsible for winning by himself without a great defensive performance or much other help from the running game, and in some seasons, mediocre OL play.  

 

Another perspective would be to ask how McD's Bills would be with Fitzpatrick, Orton, Manuel, Bledsoe, or Edwards.  It's not really fair to suggest that he would suck with them but he's the reason for our success with Allen.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

I'd like to see what Chan would do with an O like this - outside of Allen no superstars, but a bunch of guys who can catch the ball, and a couple guys who can catch out of the backfield.  It would be fun to watch!

 

I'd like to see what anyone with any kind of significant track record of successful offensive regimen would do with an O like this.  

 

We've never had anyone like that leading the O.   Dorsey was OJT, so is Brady.  Daboll's sucked, as in bottom-dwelling, without Allen everywhere else.  

 

 

[corta765]

Fun question which I look at like this. None of the drought coaches could even get into the playoffs which both Wade before and McD did after without Josh. So to me Josh means probably playoffs but regression of what we have seen. Here is my thoughts on each while understanding NE was NE:

 

Greg Williams: One playoff appearance bookended by 7-9 years 

Mike Mularkey: Division crown year 1 as the combo of that defense mixed with the offense having Henry is enough to knock NE to a WC. But lose in playoffs at home. Year 2 is tough, if they cut the vets like they did then the team is 9-7 missing the playoffs (remember the defense lost a ton of talent that offseason). If they keep what they have playoff year and a loss followed by a strange resignation lol.

Dick Jauron: Lowest of any of the coaches during the drought as he played it so safe that even with a QB like Josh at best your getting maybe a WC year. I would say the team floats around .500 for three straight years despite Joshs heroics with a token playoff appearance. They do beat the Cowboys on MNF though

Chan Gailey: Wildcard year 1 at 9-7 and then the offense explodes year 2 for a 12-4 year as they hit all the right spots and win to make the division round. Unfortunately year 3 the lack of defense catches up as they sputter to 7-9. Chan's offenses were never the problem, it was his lack of defense. I really think if he ever had a QB he could get a few good years before the one dimensionless appears.

Doug Marrone: 8-8 year 1, wild card 11-5 year 2 with a run to the conference title before losing in NE. Marrone resigns after as he says Josh is too aggressive on offense for his liking.

Rex Ryan: Year 1 9-7 no playoffs because he wrecks the defense, Year 2 9-7 no playoff appearance when he botches an end of season call in OT. I think by the time Rex took over the game had passed him too much and even with a QB like Josh it isn't enough. Offense wasn't the problem when Rex was here, it was his defense and coaching. Unlike the earlier drought coaches the league my the mid 2010s had become very offensive driven but good coaching could unravel that quickly.

 

Edited May 20 by corta765

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, transient said:

Yeah, gotta think the teams coached by Marrone with Allen as QB would have had the same record because he didn't want to develop a rookie QB so Orton still would have been the starter. Put 2023 Allen on that team and they win the SB with Schwartz as their DC.

Orton came EJs second year, and only after EJ looked horrible in camp. No coach was benching Josh, at least any smart ones 

[SoonerBillsFan]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If I imagine Josh (as he is now, so not factoring in a development arc as if he was a rookie in 02) as the Quarterback of each of the teams going back to the start of my fandom in 2002 then I think they break to drought in 2003 with Williams as Head Coach. The D was very good that year. Any sort of offense they are a playoff team. Likewise they'd have made it in 04 (should have anyway) and would have been a potential Superbowl contender. The 05 and 06 teams were not as strong. They lost Pat Williams and London Fletcher and Spikes had the injuries and barely played over those two seasons. I think they'd have been playoff competitive but would have been touch and go to get in. The 2007 team was terrible. How they won 7 games has long since been a mystery to me. I think that was the 3rd worst team of my fandom after 2010 and 2018. I know you look at it and go "they went 7-9, Josh would have got 2 more wins" but that roster sucked I think if they played that schedule 10 times they don't get to 7 wins more than once. 2008 and 09 they probably make it. 2010, no. 2011, possibly. 2012 yes. 2013, no. 2014, yes. 2015 I think they'd have been a Superbowl contender with Josh and any drought coach EXCEPT Rex. 2016 playoffs. 

 

My breakdown of the 15 years of the drought that I watched would be:

 

2 genuine Superbowl contending years (04, 15)

6 likely playoff years (03, 08, 09, 12, 14, 16)

3 playoff contention 50/50 in/out years (05, 06, 11)

4 playoff misses (02, 07, 10, 13)

 

Very good breakdown,thank you.

[Freddie's Dead]

6 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I thought about this myself.  If Chan had Josh I think the drought would have been shorter.

 

This^^^^.  No other drought era coach had the offensive wherewithal to take full advantage of Josh.

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Orton came EJs second year, and only after EJ looked horrible in camp. No coach was benching Josh, at least any smart ones 

Do you think EJ or Josh had better first seasons? EJ was clearly better but Marrone did not want to let him grow into the role. Truly EJs best two games were his first two and from there he was handcuffed. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Marrone and that Defense in 2014 definitely make the playoffs, maybe even the Super Bowl, with Josh.

 

4 hours ago, transient said:

Yeah, gotta think the teams coached by Marrone with Allen as QB would have had the same record because he didn't want to develop a rookie QB so Orton still would have been the starter. Put 2023 Allen on that team and they win the SB with Schwartz as their DC.

 

Marrone didnt want to develop a QB... from one of the worst QB classes of all time in 2013.

 

I think given a talent like Josh, who was a top 10 pick in one of the more hyped classes, Doug would have coached him.

Edited May 20 by DrDawkinstein

[Captain Hindsight]

8 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Do you think EJ or Josh had better first seasons? EJ was clearly better but Marrone did not want to let him grow into the role. Truly EJs best two games were his first two and from there he was handcuffed. 

Josh was way better. EJ was ok his rookie year but his talent was nowhere near Josh’s level

[Mat68]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Marrone and that Defense in 2014 definitely make the playoffs, maybe even the Super Bowl, with Josh.

 

 

Marrone didnt want to develop a QB... from one of the worst QB classes of all time in 2013.

 

I think given a talent like Josh, who was a top 10 pick in one of the more hyped classes, Doug would have coached him.

EJ was a bust.  He got worst as his career went on.  Allen got better.  That wasnt coaching.  Ej fell apart. 

[The Jokeman]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Marrone and that Defense in 2014 definitely make the playoffs, maybe even the Super Bowl, with Josh.

 

 

Marrone didnt want to develop a QB... from one of the worst QB classes of all time in 2013.

 

I think given a talent like Josh, who was a top 10 pick in one of the more hyped classes, Doug would have coached him.

Marrone would have been tied to Hackett who so far hasn't shown to be a good OC for young QBs (see Zach Wilson).

[DCofNC]

5 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

If the Bills had drafted Allen under Marrone we never get to the point where Josh is Josh. Marrone made sure EJ Manuel never had a chance to grow, and Josh would have sucked his first 3 games and never seen the field again. We seem to forget that Josh was AWFUL his first 6 games, so bad even I thought we might have screwed up drafting him. And before anyone thinks I am saying EJ was gonna be similar to Josh, I am simply saying EJ was better his first few games than Josh but was never shown how to grow at all 

Give it up, EJ SUCKED, he sucked at Florida State, held that team back from a couple championships.  Marrone saw it for what it was, he had a team that could contend and a pathetic QB holding him back, he did the right thing.   EJ couldn’t complete passes in shorts, without pressure, he was WAY less accurate than Josh ever was.  Not only that, Marrone not only played, but WON with Bortles who is the poor man’s version of JA.   Marrone might be an arrogant blowhard, but he was right about EJ and would have been just fine w JA. He did more with less than McClappy ever has.

[DCofNC]

33 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Marrone would have been tied to Hackett who so far hasn't shown to be a good OC for young QBs (see Zach Wilson).

Blake Bortles’ career took a nose dive after they were gone.  Hackett gets a lot of hate, rightfully so, but most QBs he works with look worse without him.  His schemes seem bush league, but he made people think his QB at Syracuse was potentially the best in the draft (pathetic class, but nevertheless), he did well with Ortin, Bortles, and Rodgers.  His “failures” are EJ Manuel, who never was good, the corpse of Russ Wilson and Zach Wilson.  Is it really all him?   I’m a straight up Hackett hater, he’s the definition of nepotism at work, BUT he’s been pretty solid with real QBs to work with.

[Buffalo716]

50 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Do you think EJ or Josh had better first seasons? EJ was clearly better but Marrone did not want to let him grow into the role. Truly EJs best two games were his first two and from there he was handcuffed. 

And he was very very average those two good games LOL 

 

Ej manual looked like Tarzan played like Jane... That's it 

 

he was never going to be successful because he just did not have it... We went to a 35-year-old quarterback and instantly upgraded

[corta765]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

This^^^^.  No other drought era coach had the offensive wherewithal to take full advantage of Josh.

It was always weird to me that Chan who wanted a young QB never either got the ability to ask for one or threw his horses behind Fitz so fast. I remember 2011 Fitz hype was real, but heading into 2012 it was kind of like the clock hitting midnight and a lot of people thought maybe they'd draft a replacement.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, corta765 said:

It was always weird to me that Chan who wanted a young QB never either got the ability to ask for one or threw his horses behind Fitz so fast. I remember 2011 Fitz hype was real, but heading into 2012 it was kind of like the clock hitting midnight and a lot of people thought maybe they'd draft a replacement.

 

I've always thought that the Fitz-Fred relationship fueled that 2011 team.  Fred was the MVP in 2011 until he broke his leg, after which nothing was quite the same.  Fitz got run outta town on a rail for EJ, we wound up with 3rd and puss, Maroon, and Wrex, perpetuating the drought for four more years.

[Mikie2times]

We would have gotten to at least a few divisional playoffs games and likely at least one AFC championship game. So not that different. 

[Bill from NYC]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And better GMs (our GMing was arguably even worse than our coaching in the drought). 

Agreed and the Levy/Jauron combo was about as bad as I have ever seen on any team in any sport.

[Rico]

Nowhere, Ralph had to get out of the way first. Once Pegs took over and he finally dumped Ralph's stooges, anything was possible.