Tua holding out?

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

We still call them back spasms, no biggie.   😋

 

The first one where Epenesa just pushed him and he fell backwards and got concussed was odd. That didn’t look like it should have resulted in injury. That is hard for me to forget, even without the subsequent issues. 

 

It has to be a factor in the negotiations.

[JohnNord]

On 6/28/2024 at 1:35 PM, Captain Hindsight said:

Yup. Josh had a poor game handling the ball, otherwise that game was a joke. The Bills rolled them 

That why I laugh when people say “Skylar Thompson almost beat Buffalo.”  The Bills had the game won early and Josh let Miami back into the game with turnovers 

[JP51]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

That why I laugh when people say “Skylar Thompson almost beat Buffalo.”  The Bills had the game won early and Josh let Miami back into the game with turnovers 

I agree here for sure... it was closer than it needed to be... the thing is if you look at the overall dominance of the Dolphins that has been the Bills over the past while, I am not sure what the fear factor is. I mean that could change, but this game didnt give me cause for concern... The Cinci game... now that was disturbing.

[Einstein's Dog]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

We still call them back spasms, no biggie.   😋

 

The first one where Epenesa just pushed him and he fell backwards and got concussed was odd. That didn’t look like it should have resulted in injury. That is hard for me to forget, even without the subsequent issues. 

But from Tua's angle, he had a concussion and the team put him back out there.  So while the team (like you + me) may not forget it, I don't think Tua (or his agent) will forget that treatment either.  Tua owes no favors to the Fins.

 

And right now is when Tua holds huge leverage.  Miami would have a lost season without Tua this year.  This would be the time to squeeze Miami, you do not wait.

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

But from Tua's angle, he had a concussion and the team put him back out there.  So while the team (like you + me) may not forget it, I don't think Tua (or his agent) will forget that treatment either.  Tua owes no favors to the Fins.

 

And right now is when Tua holds huge leverage.  Miami would have a lost season without Tua this year.  This would be the time to squeeze Miami, you do not wait.

 

Squeeze all you want, but if I’m the Dolphins I’m protecting the team by structuring the contract in a way that allows them outs during the deal. I don’t mind paying him as long as there is some insurance for the team. Another Tua injury would be like the Von Miller contract/injury gamble, but on a much larger scale. 

 

If they can’t find common ground, we get onto the path of tagging and year by year deals basically. It’s worked for others, and Tua will still be a very wealthy man. 

 

 

.

Edited July 1 by Augie

[Billl]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Squeeze all you want, but if I’m the Dolphins I’m protecting the team by structuring the contract in a way that allows them outs during the deal. I don’t mind paying him as long as there is some insurance for the team. Another Tua injury would be like the Von Miller contract/injury gamble, but on a much larger scale. 

So what do you do when Tua refuses to sign it?

[Einstein's Dog]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Squeeze all you want, but if I’m the Dolphins I’m protecting the team by structuring the contract in a way that allows them outs during the deal. I don’t mind paying him as long as there is some insurance for the team. Another Tua injury would be like the Von Miller contract/injury gamble, but on a much larger scale. 

And if I'm Tua's agent I'm telling him he's not to take the field until he gets over $40M guaranteed.  That's the range he is in and he shouldn't play until he gets it.  If Miami doesn't want to pay it, trade him to someone who will.  

 

Of course, in the mean time, Miami is screwed this season.  But that should not be Tua's concern, the Fins weren't concerned when they ran him back out there with "back spasms".

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

So what do you do when Tua refuses to sign it?

 

Let him miss out on his $24 Million or whatever the number is. That isn’t an attractive option for Tua. 

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

And if I'm Tua's agent I'm telling him he's not to take the field until he gets over $40M guaranteed.  That's the range he is in and he shouldn't play until he gets it.  If Miami doesn't want to pay it, trade him to someone who will.  

 

Of course, in the mean time, Miami is screwed this season.  But that should not be Tua's concern, the Fins weren't concerned when they ran him back out there with "back spasms".

 

I have no problem whatsoever paying him what he’s worth (which is NOT Mahomes/Josh kind of money).  My concern if I’m the team is having outs in the deal in case he goes back to getting injured regularly. Heck, this guy might not be able to play football any more with a couple more concussions. How much guaranteed money do you want to throw at him?

Edited July 1 by Augie

[first_and_ten]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:35 AM, Gregg said:

He should get paid well as he did have a good season, but he is not on the level of Mahomes, Allen, Burrow. Also, when the weather gets nasty, he seems to struggle.

 If Lawrence and Goff got paid, Tua certainly deserves to get paid. 

11 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

And if I'm Tua's agent I'm telling him he's not to take the field until he gets over $40M guaranteed.  That's the range he is in and he shouldn't play until he gets it.  If Miami doesn't want to pay it, trade him to someone who will.  

 

Of course, in the mean time, Miami is screwed this season.  But that should not be Tua's concern, the Fins weren't concerned when they ran him back out there with "back spasms".

 

I'm sorry, but he's in the over 50 million range. 

[Einstein's Dog]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Let him miss out on his $24 Million or whatever the number is. That isn’t an attractive option for Tua. 

 

I have no problem whatsoever paying him what he’s worth (which is NOT Mahomes/Josh kind of money).  My concern if I’m the team is having outs in the deal in case he goes back to getting injured regularly. 

Tua potentially missing out on the $24M will get him $40M+ the next time he hits the field.  And that is what his agent should be telling him.

 

And if Miami doesn't pay the $40M+ they can watch the serious drop of the Vegas odds for them to make the playoffs.

 

Tua is worth the new Trevor rate - which happens to be Josh/Mahomes territory of yesteryear.  And while the Dolphins would love to have outs, the agent needs to bring home a huge guarantee for Tua.  Tua should be listening to his agent, and his agent should be sending him weekly repeats of video when Tua got up in that Bills game - and the Fins sent him back out there in the second half.

[Billl]

16 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Let him miss out on his $24 Million or whatever the number is. That isn’t an attractive option for Tua. 

 

I have no problem whatsoever paying him what he’s worth (which is NOT Mahomes/Josh kind of money).  My concern if I’m the team is having outs in the deal in case he goes back to getting injured regularly. Heck, this guy might not be able to play football any more with a couple more concussions. How much guaranteed money do you want to throw at him?

So your plan is to be the first GM ever to “win” in a situation like this.  That doesn’t sound like much of a plan to me.  Last year around this time, people were calling Lamar stupid.  Now he’s the reigning MVP with a bank account to match.

 

What Josh and Patrick make doesn’t matter because they aren’t available.  Your choice is to pay Tua a market contract or play some scrub and lose your job if the team sucks.  Meanwhile, there will be GMs lined up to sign Tua.  He’s got all the leverage.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

So your plan is to be the first GM ever to “win” in a situation like this.  That doesn’t sound like much of a plan to me.  Last year around this time, people were calling Lamar stupid.  Now he’s the reigning MVP with a bank account to match.

 

What Josh and Patrick make doesn’t matter because they aren’t available.  Your choice is to pay Tua a market contract or play some scrub and lose your job if the team sucks.  Meanwhile, there will be GMs lined up to sign Tua.  He’s got all the leverage.

 

This is a story as old as time. They can tag Tua, and he can show up and earn about $24 million, or he stay home and NOT make $24 million. Tua doesn’t have the real leverage. This happens every year, and every year it gets worked out. I don’t mind paying him fairly.  The only difference here is how much guaranteed money and Tua’s injury and concussion history. THAT is the difference. 

[Billl]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is a story as old as time. They can tag Tua, and he can show up and earn about $24 million, or he stay home and NOT make $24 million. Tua doesn’t have the real leverage. This happens every year, and every year it gets worked out. I don’t mind paying him fairly.  The only difference here is how much guaranteed money and Tua’s injury and concussion history. THAT is the difference. 

Can you point to any examples of a GM taking this route and winning?  This does happen every year, and it “gets worked out” when the GM pays the QB.  The closest a GM has ever come to taking your approach and sticking to his guns was Cousins in Washington.   How’d that end for Bruce Allen?

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

Can you point to any examples of a GM taking this route and winning?  This does happen every year, and it “gets worked out” when the GM pays the QB.  The closest a GM has ever come to taking your approach and sticking to his guns was Cousins in Washington.   How’d that end for Bruce Allen?

 

You are missing my point entirely, so maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Tua’s concussion and injury history make him a unique contract candidate.

 

I’d want to see more than one healthy season from him before trapping my team into a long term contract with huge guarantees. His concussion history matters to me if I’m the GM, or even just a casual watcher of the NFL. Hell, forget the NFL fan part, anyone aware of his concussion history should be at least somewhat concerned for his wellbeing. 

 

It’s not just another QB deal. That is my point, and as clear as I can be. Have a nice evening. 

 

 

.

Edited July 1 by Augie

[Billl]

Just now, Augie said:

 

You are missing my point entirely, so maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Tua’s concussion and injury history make him a unique contract candidate.

 

I’d want to see more than one healthy season from him before trapping my team into a long term contract with huge guarantees. His concussion history matters to me if I’m the GM, or even just a casual watcher of the NFL. Hell, forget the NFL fan part, anyone aware of his concussion history should be at least somewhat concerned for his wellbeing. 

 

It’s not just another QB deal. That is my point. 

I understand your point.  It’s not particularly complex.  There is simply zero chance that Tua signs that deal, so what is your plan B?  Tua will have a job in 2025 if he sits out in 2024.  You (the Dolphins GM) will not.  That team is built to win now.  They aren’t in a position to reset and try again 4 years from now with a young QB they draft in 2025 or 2026.  You’re staring down the barrel of signing Ryan Tannehill or trading a pick to the Chiefs for Carson Wentz and hitching your career to their ability to get you to the playoffs.

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, Billl said:

I understand your point.  It’s not particularly complex.  There is simply zero chance that Tua signs that deal, so what is your plan B?  Tua will have a job in 2025 if he sits out in 2024.  You (the Dolphins GM) will not.  That team is built to win now.  They aren’t in a position to reset and try again 4 years from now with a young QB they draft in 2025 or 2026.  You’re staring down the barrel of signing Ryan Tannehill or trading a pick to the Chiefs for Carson Wentz and hitching your career to their ability to get you to the playoffs.

 

So you understand it, and you just ignore it. Gotcha. 

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So you understand it, and you just ignore it. Gotcha. 

I’m not ignoring anything.  Your entire plan is to offer a contract that he’s not going to accept.  I mean sure, maybe he’s had so many concussions that he’s brain dead enough to accept a proposal that would get his agent black-balled…I won’t ignore the .000001% chance that he agrees to your deal and you win GMOTY for your ability to swindle your QB into accepting a terrible deal.  

 

Your turn.  What do you do if, for whatever reason, Tua decides to make a smart financial decision and refuses your offer?  You trotting Mike White out there?

[Augie]

At some point it’s just not worth it……

[Einstein's Dog]

41 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You are missing my point entirely, so maybe I wasn’t clear enough. Tua’s concussion and injury history make him a unique contract candidate.

 

I’d want to see more than one healthy season from him before trapping my team into a long term contract with huge guarantees. His concussion history matters to me if I’m the GM, or even just a casual watcher of the NFL. Hell, forget the NFL fan part, anyone aware of his concussion history should be at least somewhat concerned for his wellbeing. 

 

It’s not just another QB deal. That is my point, and as clear as I can be. Have a nice evening. 

 

You seem to be viewing it from a Dolphins GM perspective.  And I agree from that perspective you would want another year and an out.

 

But now view it from Tua's agents perspective - you don't want him to have to go out another year at an under-market rate.   You don't let him play at $24M for the year when he could hold out and get the market rate of $50M/yr + guaranteed money the next time he plays.  Someone will pay it, look at the Trevor/K Cousins/D Jones contracts.

 

So when you say "Squeeze all you want, but if I’m the Dolphins I’m protecting the team by structuring the contract in a way that allows them outs" then they won't be accepting the contract because Tua's agent will be putting huge guarantees in it.  

 

Personally I'm glad to see it.  When they brought Tua back out at that Bills game, I said they'll pay for this.  And they have, karma is a b*tch.  Not only the Cincy game, but that whole season.  Now as the gift that keeps on giving, Tua can guilt-free hold them over a barrel.  He owes them nothing, outwardly say this is just business (and quietly, internally, smile).

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You seem to be viewing it from a Dolphins GM perspective.  And I agree from that perspective you would want another year and an out.

 

But now view it from Tua's agents perspective - you don't want him to have to go out another year at an under-market rate.   You don't let him play at $24M for the year when he could hold out and get the market rate of $50M/yr + guaranteed money the next time he plays.  Someone will pay it, look at the Trevor/K Cousins/D Jones contracts.

 

So when you say "Squeeze all you want, but if I’m the Dolphins I’m protecting the team by structuring the contract in a way that allows them outs" then they won't be accepting the contract because Tua's agent will be putting huge guarantees in it.  

 

Personally I'm glad to see it.  When they brought Tua back out at that Bills game, I said they'll pay for this.  And they have, karma is a b*tch.  Not only the Cincy game, but that whole season.  Now as the gift that keeps on giving, Tua can guilt-free hold them over a barrel.  He owes them nothing, outwardly say this is just business (and quietly, internally, smile).

 

It’s not personal, it’s business. It doesn’t matter if they “put him back out there”, he went and we are where we are. You don’t guarantee extra money as a “my bad, sorry your brain may be scrambled.” 

 

IF they can’t find a middle ground, I’d let him not make his $24 MIL this year. It’s rare that they don’t take the money, you never get that back. He can try to hold them over a barrel, and they can make a legit case for concern about his durability. 

 

I’m tired of arguing what the Dolphins should do. 

 

P.S. By all accounts I’ve heard, Tua is a good guy so I wish him well in all regards here.  (Unless he’s playing the Bills.)