Tua holding out?

[Dablitzkrieg]

Hawk Tua

[Chaos]

  On 6/27/2024 at 8:31 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

lol who?  Mike White?  Skylar Thompson? Gavin Hardison?  stop.  Everyone thinks Purdy is a figment of Shanahan's imagination.  He's a solid, skilled QB, as it turns out. 

 

Tua is McDaniels's best hope.

 

 

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[H2o]

  On 6/27/2024 at 8:31 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

lol who?  Mike White?  Skylar Thompson? Gavin Hardison?  stop.  Everyone thinks Purdy is a figment of Shanahan's imagination.  He's a solid, skilled QB, as it turns out. 

 

Tua is McDaniels's best hope.

 

 

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No, not any of them, although we did almost lose to Skylar Thompson in the Playoffs if you remember.

 

If you look through the years, Shanahan (and his system) make it easier for a QB to succeed than others. He took Matt Ryan from good, to MVP caliber. There are a list of backups who have seen success in his offense when their number has been called.

 

No one is insinuating Purdy is some dumpster-dive QB, but he was not heralded coming out of college (spare us any mention of Tom Brady because he's clearly not). He is good in that system. I don't believe he would be as successful elsewhere. 

 

Mike McDaniel runs the same offense. Maybe, after scouting this coming year, they see a 2nd or 3rd Round prospect whom they think would be successful in the system. A QB they feel could keep the offense moving in the same direction without a $50M price tag. 

 

Tua is solid, but Tua is limited. Tua is solid, but Tua is fragile. His arm strength is meh, his mobility is meh, and his injury history make him a risk to invest heavily in. He does have good accuracy for the most part and gets the ball out of his hands quickly, but he is the beneficiary of the McDaniel/Shanahan system as previously noted about others. 

[Chaos]

  On 6/28/2024 at 11:26 AM, H2o said:

A QB they feel could keep the offense moving in the same direction without a $50M price tag. 

 

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The offense as currently structured does seem to maximize Tua's value. However, the offense is not good enough to be worthy of a $50 mm QB price tag.  

Edited June 28, 2024 by Chaos

[Einstein's Dog]

  On 6/28/2024 at 11:26 AM, H2o said:

No, not any of them, although we did almost lose to Skylar Thompson in the Playoffs if you remember.

 

If you look through the years, Shanahan (and his system) make it easier for a QB to succeed than others. He took Matt Ryan from good, to MVP caliber. There are a list of backups who have seen success in his offense when their number has been called.

 

No one is insinuating Purdy is some dumpster-dive QB, but he was not heralded coming out of college (spare us any mention of Tom Brady because he's clearly not). He is good in that system. I don't believe he would be as successful elsewhere. 

 

Mike McDaniel runs the same offense. Maybe, after scouting this coming year, they see a 2nd or 3rd Round prospect whom they think would be successful in the system. A QB they feel could keep the offense moving in the same direction without a $50M price tag. 

 

Tua is solid, but Tua is limited. Tua is solid, but Tua is fragile. His arm strength is meh, his mobility is meh, and his injury history make him a risk to invest heavily in. He does have good accuracy for the most part and gets the ball out of his hands quickly, but he is the beneficiary of the McDaniel/Shanahan system as previously noted about others. 

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I agree with what you have written.

 

But you make the case for Tua to get paid now!  Waiting a year allows Miami to find that cheap 2nd or 3rd round prospect that can run the offense.  For this year, Miami would be toast without Tua.   Remember how short lived Mike Whites reign was after the Bills exposed his weaknesses with the Jets.  And that is thinking M White could last more than 6 games.

 

As to the fragile part, I too, think he is risky.  But that too should be reason to get your guaranteed $40M now, one serious injury (concussion) and it's gone.  And lets face it, Tua is putting a lot on the line when he goes out there - long term damage is a possibility.

 

From the Dolphins perspective I can understand not wanting to pay him. 

From Tua (and his agents) angle, I would think a big guarantee for this season would be needed.  If I were Tua's agent I would be sending weekly emails with the clip of him getting up in the Bills game a little before half time.  He was staggering in a way that at first I thought was so exaggerated he was trying to draw a flag.  But then I thought that wouldn't be smart he'll have to sit the whole game.  The Fins ran him back out there.

[Mr. WEO]

  On 6/28/2024 at 11:26 AM, H2o said:

No, not any of them, although we did almost lose to Skylar Thompson in the Playoffs if you remember.

 

If you look through the years, Shanahan (and his system) make it easier for a QB to succeed than others. He took Matt Ryan from good, to MVP caliber. There are a list of backups who have seen success in his offense when their number has been called.

 

No one is insinuating Purdy is some dumpster-dive QB, but he was not heralded coming out of college (spare us any mention of Tom Brady because he's clearly not). He is good in that system. I don't believe he would be as successful elsewhere. 

 

Mike McDaniel runs the same offense. Maybe, after scouting this coming year, they see a 2nd or 3rd Round prospect whom they think would be successful in the system. A QB they feel could keep the offense moving in the same direction without a $50M price tag. 

 

Tua is solid, but Tua is limited. Tua is solid, but Tua is fragile. His arm strength is meh, his mobility is meh, and his injury history make him a risk to invest heavily in. He does have good accuracy for the most part and gets the ball out of his hands quickly, but he is the beneficiary of the McDaniel/Shanahan system as previously noted about others. 

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college doesn't matter once you're in the league.

 

Every DC is extremely familiar with Shanahan's "system".  It's hardly revolutionary.  They've had plenty of time to expose Purdy.  They aren't making much of a dent.

 

Systems don't many SBs (Shanahan should be the first to tell you this). Tua is the best McDaniels will coach in Miami.  

[ColoradoBills]

It seems to me that the AAV for Tua is not the biggest issue.  It would be the contract length and guaranteed money.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

  On 6/28/2024 at 11:26 AM, H2o said:

No, not any of them, although we did almost lose to Skylar Thompson in the Playoffs if you remember.

 

If you look through the years, Shanahan (and his system) make it easier for a QB to succeed than others. He took Matt Ryan from good, to MVP caliber. There are a list of backups who have seen success in his offense when their number has been called.

 

No one is insinuating Purdy is some dumpster-dive QB, but he was not heralded coming out of college (spare us any mention of Tom Brady because he's clearly not). He is good in that system. I don't believe he would be as successful elsewhere. 

 

Mike McDaniel runs the same offense. Maybe, after scouting this coming year, they see a 2nd or 3rd Round prospect whom they think would be successful in the system. A QB they feel could keep the offense moving in the same direction without a $50M price tag. 

 

Tua is solid, but Tua is limited. Tua is solid, but Tua is fragile. His arm strength is meh, his mobility is meh, and his injury history make him a risk to invest heavily in. He does have good accuracy for the most part and gets the ball out of his hands quickly, but he is the beneficiary of the McDaniel/Shanahan system as previously noted about others. 

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Not based on anything that Skylar Thompson did though. More like they almost won a game completely in spite of his incompetence at the position.  18/45 for 220 and 2 picks, sacked 4x, and a 44.7 QB rating.   

[Captain Hindsight]

  On 6/28/2024 at 4:50 PM, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Not based on anything that Skylar Thompson did though. More like they almost won a game completely in spite of his incompetence at the position.  18/45 for 220 and 2 picks, sacked 4x, and a 44.7 QB rating.   

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Yup. Josh had a poor game handling the ball, otherwise that game was a joke. The Bills rolled them 

[Putin]

  On 6/28/2024 at 2:29 PM, Einstein's Dog said:

I agree with what you have written.

 

But you make the case for Tua to get paid now!  Waiting a year allows Miami to find that cheap 2nd or 3rd round prospect that can run the offense.  For this year, Miami would be toast without Tua.   Remember how short lived Mike Whites reign was after the Bills exposed his weaknesses with the Jets.  And that is thinking M White could last more than 6 games.

 

As to the fragile part, I too, think he is risky.  But that too should be reason to get your guaranteed $40M now, one serious injury (concussion) and it's gone.  And lets face it, Tua is putting a lot on the line when he goes out there - long term damage is a possibility.

 

From the Dolphins perspective I can understand not wanting to pay him. 

From Tua (and his agents) angle, I would think a big guarantee for this season would be needed.  If I were Tua's agent I would be sending weekly emails with the clip of him getting up in the Bills game a little before half time.  He was staggering in a way that at first I thought was so exaggerated he was trying to draw a flag.  But then I thought that wouldn't be smart he'll have to sit the whole game.  The Fins ran him back out there.

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Miami can still have Tua playing for 2 even 3 more years without giving him a new contract , 

[Einstein's Dog]

  On 6/28/2024 at 5:43 PM, Putin said:

Miami can still have Tua playing for 2 even 3 more years without giving him a new contract , 

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That's only if Tua will play for them.  He could do a Le'Veon Bell. 

 

Tua shouldn't play another season until he gets Trevor money.  If Miami isn't going to pay it he should hold out and wait because someone will.  Any season Tua plays could be his last so he should do it at a high rate of pay.

[ColoradoBills]

  On 6/28/2024 at 6:30 PM, Einstein's Dog said:

That's only if Tua will play for them.  He could do a Le'Veon Bell. 

 

Tua shouldn't play another season until he gets Trevor money.  If Miami isn't going to pay it he should hold out and wait because someone will.  Any season Tua plays could be his last so he should do it at a high rate of pay.

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With Tua's medical history there is a good chance no one is giving him a $275M with a $200M guaranteed contract like Trevor.

I can see him holding out of camp and preseason to get a fair contract, but he shouldn't be too demanding.

 

He stands to lose $23.2M if he doesn't play this year.  $42M if he's tagged next year.

The Cousin's route isn't a bad option.

[Augie]

  On 6/28/2024 at 8:06 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

With Tua's medical history there is a good chance no one is giving him a $275M with a $200M guaranteed contract like Trevor.

I can see him holding out of camp and preseason to get a fair contract, but he shouldn't be too demanding.

 

He stands to lose $23.2M if he doesn't play this year.  $42M if he's tagged next year.

The Cousin's route isn't a bad option.

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Until he strings together a few healthy and successful seasons that may very well be his best path.  Don’t guarantee too much money to a china doll, then wonder how things went so terribly wrong. 

[ColoradoBills]

  On 6/28/2024 at 8:19 PM, Augie said:

 

Until he strings together a few healthy and successful seasons that may very well be his best path.  Don’t guarantee too much money to a china doll, then wonder how things went so terribly wrong. 

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Exactly.  Miami can give him a good AAV but the guaranteed exposure can't be too big or too lengthy.

 

I get the feeling that this is the reason(s) they haven't agreed yet.

[JP51]

  On 6/28/2024 at 8:26 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

Exactly.  Miami can give him a good AAV but the guaranteed exposure can't be too big or too lengthy.

 

I get the feeling that this is the reason(s) they haven't agreed yet.

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I agree with this... and I have moved from... He isnt holding out to... I think he just might... 

[Captain Hindsight]

  On 6/28/2024 at 8:06 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

With Tua's medical history there is a good chance no one is giving him a $275M with a $200M guaranteed contract like Trevor.

I can see him holding out of camp and preseason to get a fair contract, but he shouldn't be too demanding.

 

He stands to lose $23.2M if he doesn't play this year.  $42M if he's tagged next year.

The Cousin's route isn't a bad option.

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Tua has missed 8 games the last 3 years. Nothing crazy 

[ColoradoBills]

  On 7/1/2024 at 1:42 PM, Captain Hindsight said:

Tua has missed 8 games the last 3 years. Nothing crazy 

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So, you never heard of his concussion history?

[Captain Hindsight]

  On 7/1/2024 at 1:45 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

So, you never heard of his concussion history?

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I have, I also think with the way QBs are protected its a way overblown issue. I wouldn't pay Tua that much because I think he's a mid level QB who has had multiple poor showings in late season games. His injury history is a non factor IMO

[ColoradoBills]

  On 7/1/2024 at 1:58 PM, Captain Hindsight said:

I have, I also think with the way QBs are protected its a way overblown issue. I wouldn't pay Tua that much because I think he's a mid level QB who has had multiple poor showings in late season games. His injury history is a non factor IMO

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If I was a GM it would be a factor in regard to contract guaranteed money.

[Augie]

  On 7/1/2024 at 1:45 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

So, you never heard of his concussion history?

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We still call them back spasms, no biggie.   😋

 

The first one where Epenesa just pushed him and he fell backwards and got concussed was odd. That didn’t look like it should have resulted in injury. That is hard for me to forget, even without the subsequent issues.