Building around Josh

[NeverOutNick]

First off I want to say I respect Beane’s game. He always finds a way to fill holes and gives McD as much depth as possible every year to keep the team competitive. He did a great job putting make up on an ugly pig of a WR group after the draft. BUT what if we went all in on surrounding Josh with as much young cheap talent as possible. What if Beane didn’t play it safe year in and year out with high character dependable players and went with some potential home run hitters.
 

Humor me and lets play this out, let’s reverse time back to this epic 2024 WR draft. AD Mitchell and Troy Franklin may have had some character flaws that dropped them a bit in the draft but their talent is undeniable.

 

In a year where even before we lost Davis and Diggs we needed another young WR, let’s pretend that we did something unconventional and actually took 3 WR in the first 3 rounds! 🤯
 

Now how would this play out?

 

Pick 33 is still Coleman and we got some draft capital 

pick 51 or higher (trade a 5th this year and a 3rd next year) AD Mitchell

Pick 95 Troy Franklin

The rest of the draft stays the same 

 

BUT wait we don’t have Bishop at safety or Carter at DT whatever will we do!?!

 

Hmmm maybe this year we let McD get a couple FAs to plug and play. Maybe we don’t go dumpster diving for leftover WRs and instead grab a couple veteran defensive players instead.

 

Why not sign Justin Simmons and Calais Campbell and then next year when it’s a better defensive draft you can address the DT spot

 

Josh now has Coleman, AD Mitchell, Troy Franklin, Khalil Shakir, and Curtis Samuel…oh and McD can have his special teams WR with the last spot too in Hollins, Shavers or Shorter. You know you’d love that WR corps and so would Josh for the next 4+ years
 

Again, Beane did a great job making the best out of a bad situation with his WR room but man what could’ve been if he just leaned into helping his franchise QB out long term instead of short term bandaids. 

[Logic]

🤐

[Mike in Horseheads]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[julian]

The McBean hate burns bright with this one

[strive_for_five_guy]

We could have won it all

[LeGOATski]

What if AD and Troy Franklin totally suck? Then our WR corps still sucks AND our defense sucks. You just wasted picks.

 

At the end of the day, just trust your draft board and all the work you put into it.

[BillsFanForever19]

Another thread about Troy Franklin and bemoaning us only taking Coleman in the Draft. Yay!

 

If their talent were "undeniable" - Mitchell wouldn't have lasted until 52 and Troy Franklin all the way until Round 4. Character flaws or not.

 

And the league has been littered with incredibly talented college prospects that flamed out because their head wasn't screwed on straight.

 

Troy Franklin had as bad of a Pre-Draft process as I've ever seen. I don't think we need to get into the abysmal Combine - that he strangely decided to stick to at his Pro Day. But then he absolutely BOMBED when it came to meeting with teams as well. Reportedly leading them to believe he only played Football as a means to get money and didn't really seem to care for the game. Beyond that, although you seem to deny it, I saw a lot of flaws in his game tapes beyond the highlights. EVERY team in the league passed on him multiple times. Some teams 4 times or more. He simply was NOT the prospect you thought he was.

AD Mitchell bombed the interviews even worse.  Reportedly he seemed downright annoyed by the whole interview process and like he didn't even want to be there. Combined with his tape of taking off plays where the ball wasn't going his way and the reports of how he treats (or doesn't treat) his diabetes, how he acts  when his blood sugar is low, and that you'd pretty much have to babysit him, against his wishes - I'd say the character concerns were extremely valid and explains his falling. 

 

College game tape isn't the be all, end all. Talent means nothing if you don't have your head screwed on straight. And there was a lot of things that led teams to think both had big time bust potential. In which case, you've given Josh nothing - as opposed to the idea around here that these guys were "can't miss" talents that immediately help him.

Edited May 17 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

Not sure three highly touted rookies who you expect to play would have been a great idea. Just in terms of getting them all practice reps with Josh in OTAs and camp there are only so many to go around. Teaching them all the playbook and the scheme and trying to build chemistry with the QB is a real thing. Could that have potentially brought two highly touted guys along and then a 3rd guy who you basically run with the 2s and 3s this camp because you see him as a developmental piece? Sure. But trying to get three rookies up to speed by week 1 ready to start or play significant time I think would have been a stretch. 

 

Just for the sake of the argument look at MLB last year. McDermott started camp with a 4 person rotation - Bernard, Dodson, Klein and Spector. And by the end of the week 1 it was down to Bernard and Dodson because he was worried the reps were being spread too thin and nobody was close to getting up to speed. 

 

Basically it isn't Madden. It is real football. 

Edited May 17 by GunnerBill

[BuffaloBillyG]

Listen, I saw Beane on McAfee. He said he was drafting a WR with every pick. He didn't. What a liar. He should be thrown into the pit. Or trade him to the Commanders. 

[NeverOutNick]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Another thread about Troy Franklin and bemoaning us only taking Coleman in the Draft. Yay!

 

If their talent were "undeniable" - Mitchell wouldn't have lasted until 52 and Troy Franklin all the way until Round 4. Character flaws or not.

 

And the league has been littered with incredibly talented college prospects that flamed out because their head wasn't screwed on straight.

 

Troy Franklin had as bad of a Pre-Draft process as I've ever seen. I don't think we need to get into the abysmal Combine - that he strangely decided to stick to at his Pro Day. But then he absolutely BOMBED when it came to meeting with teams as well. Reportedly leading them to believe he only played Football as a means to get money and didn't really seem to care for the game. Beyond that, although you seem to deny it, I saw a lot of flaws in his game tapes beyond the highlights. EVERY team in the league passed on him multiple times. Some teams 4 times or more. He simply was NOT the prospect you thought he was.

AD Mitchell bombed the interviews even worse.  Reportedly he seemed downright annoyed by the whole interview process and like he didn't even want to be there. Combined with his tape of taking off plays where the ball wasn't going his way and the reports of how he treats (or doesn't treat) his diabetes, how he acts  when his blood sugar is low, and that you'd pretty much have to babysit him, against his wishes - I'd say the character concerns were extremely valid and explains his falling. 

 

College game tape isn't the be all, end all. Talent means nothing if you don't have your head screwed on straight. And there was a lot of things that led teams to think both had big time bust potential. In which case, you've given Josh nothing - as opposed to the idea around here that these guys were "can't miss" talents that immediately help him.

Give it a year or 2 and we’ll see if they were such head cases or if we missed out on another George Pickens because we didn’t trust our “culture” to get the most out of 2 extremely talented WRs. My point remains, even if the FO hated Mitchell and Franklin, plug in their choice, Burton, Roman Wilson, Tez Walker, etc. Let Josh have long term WR talent that’s actually worth the investment. For as how inept a franchise Cincy used to be, they get it. Year in and year out they get more young WR talent to put around their franchise QB (Higgins, Chase, Burton this year, Jones and Iosivas last year). The only difference is their QB can’t stay healthy but when he is, they make deep runs because Burrow has so many dependable options in big moments.

 

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Not sure three highly touted rookies who you expect to play would have been a great idea. Just in terms of getting them all practice reps with Josh in OTAs and camp there are only so many to go around. Teaching them all the playbook and the scheme and trying to build chemistry with the QB is a real thing. Could that have potentially brought two highly touted guys along and then a 3rd guy who you basically run with the 2s and 3s this camp because you see him as a developmental piece? Sure. But trying to get three rookies up to speed by week 1 ready to start or play significant time I think would have been a stretch. 

 

Just for the sake of the argument look at MLB last year. McDermott started camp with a 4 person rotation - Bernard, Dodson, Klein and Spector. And by the end of the week 1 it was down to Bernard and Dodson because he was worried the reps were being spread too thin and nobody was close to getting up to speed. 

 

Basically it isn't Madden. It is real football. 

Ideally all 3 would be ready to go week 1 but your statement applies to every position. Is Carter playing every down right away or is he sitting behind the vets, rotating in when his number is called. Even if the rooks weren’t up to speed to be every down WRs by week 1, they wouldn’t need to be. It’s a long term investment in Josh. Brady would call their number as needed until they were up to speed. It’s a good problem to have and you still have your PS filled with the Isabella’s and Claypools of the world just in case. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

 

Ideally all 3 would be ready to go week 1 but your statement applies to every position. Is Carter playing every down right away or is he sitting behind the vets, rotating in when his number is called. Even if the rooks weren’t up to speed to be every down WRs by week 1, they wouldn’t need to be. It’s a long term investment in Josh. Brady would call their number as needed until they were up to speed. It’s a good problem to have and you still have your PS filled with the Isabella’s and Claypools of the world just in case. 

 

Carter won't play every down right away, no. I personally am not convinced he will ever be an every down DT which is why I wasn't particularly a fan of the pick, but some others do like him more than me. But three receivers with the first three picks would have been one too many IMO in terms of guys you want to be contributors early. There just isn't the time and space to get three guys like that up to speed. I think two in the first 3 or 4 rounds and potentially one of their late fliers on gadget guy type who could offer some return value potentially was the sweet spot. 

[NeverOutNick]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Carter won't play every down right away, no. I personally am not convinced he will ever be an every down DT which is why I wasn't particularly a fan of the pick, but some others do like him more than me. But three receivers with the first three picks would have been one too many IMO in terms of guys you want to be contributors early. There just isn't the time and space to get three guys like that up to speed. I think two in the first 3 or 4 rounds and potentially one of their late fliers on gadget guy type who could offer some return value potentially was the sweet spot. 

I can respect that view. My feeling is we’re tight against the cap most years and we were already a WR need team prior to Diggs and Davis leaving. Why not go bonkers with cheap options in the draft since we can’t pay for premium options in free agency. WRs be pricey lol 

 

I just want Josh to succeed. I don’t want to look back and go man we should’ve given him more

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I can respect that view. My feeling is we’re tight against the cap most years and we were already a WR need team prior to Diggs and Davis leaving. Why not go bonkers with cheap options in the draft since we can’t pay for premium options in free agency. WRs be pricey lol 

 

I just want Josh to succeed. I don’t want to look back and go man we should’ve given him more

 

My actual preference would have been to take some shots on guys during the 4 years you had Diggs and Davis (beyond two 5th rounders) so that you don't end up with the severity of need we had going into this draft. 

[djp14150]

8 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

First off I want to say I respect Beane’s game. He always finds a way to fill holes and gives McD as much depth as possible every year to keep the team competitive. He did a great job putting make up on an ugly pig of a WR group after the draft. BUT what if we went all in on surrounding Josh with as much young cheap talent as possible. What if Beane didn’t play it safe year in and year out with high character dependable players and went with some potential home run hitters.
 

Humor me and lets play this out, let’s reverse time back to this epic 2024 WR draft. AD Mitchell and Troy Franklin may have had some character flaws that dropped them a bit in the draft but their talent is undeniable.

 

In a year where even before we lost Davis and Diggs we needed another young WR, let’s pretend that we did something unconventional and actually took 3 WR in the first 3 rounds! 🤯
 

Now how would this play out?

 

Pick 33 is still Coleman and we got some draft capital 

pick 51 or higher (trade a 5th this year and a 3rd next year) AD Mitchell

Pick 95 Troy Franklin

The rest of the draft stays the same 

 

BUT wait we don’t have Bishop at safety or Carter at DT whatever will we do!?!

 

Hmmm maybe this year we let McD get a couple FAs to plug and play. Maybe we don’t go dumpster diving for leftover WRs and instead grab a couple veteran defensive players instead.

 

Why not sign Justin Simmons and Calais Campbell and then next year when it’s a better defensive draft you can address the DT spot

 

Josh now has Coleman, AD Mitchell, Troy Franklin, Khalil Shakir, and Curtis Samuel…oh and McD can have his special teams WR with the last spot too in Hollins, Shavers or Shorter. You know you’d love that WR corps and so would Josh for the next 4+ years
 

Again, Beane did a great job making the best out of a bad situation with his WR room but man what could’ve been if he just leaned into helping his franchise QB out long term instead of short term bandaids. 

 

this is a level of draft stupidity….using your first 3 picks on 2 position.

[drummernut74]

As long as McD is the Coach, it will be build around the D and ask Josh to do everything else with one hand tied behind his back 

[NeverOutNick]

8 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

this is a level of draft stupidity….using your first 3 picks on 2 position.

What about a team who takes CBs with the first 2 picks (eagles and lions this year) or a team that takes back to back DEs 😉

 

WR is one of a few premium positions in the NFL that costs a crazy amount of money after the rookie contract is up so it should be prioritized early and often, especially when you have a once in a lifetime quarterback at helm

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, drummernut74 said:

As long as McD is the Coach, it will be build around the D and ask Josh to do everything else with one hand tied behind his back 

 

The reality is as long as Beane is GM they will not prioritise wide receivers in the draft. They never did when he was Dir. Football Ops or Ass. GM in Carolina when he was learning his trade and they never have here. All things equal he will ALWAYS prioritise defensive front 7. 

[Buffalo03]

9 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

First off I want to say I respect Beane’s game. He always finds a way to fill holes and gives McD as much depth as possible every year to keep the team competitive. He did a great job putting make up on an ugly pig of a WR group after the draft. BUT what if we went all in on surrounding Josh with as much young cheap talent as possible. What if Beane didn’t play it safe year in and year out with high character dependable players and went with some potential home run hitters.
 

Humor me and lets play this out, let’s reverse time back to this epic 2024 WR draft. AD Mitchell and Troy Franklin may have had some character flaws that dropped them a bit in the draft but their talent is undeniable.

 

In a year where even before we lost Davis and Diggs we needed another young WR, let’s pretend that we did something unconventional and actually took 3 WR in the first 3 rounds! 🤯
 

Now how would this play out?

 

Pick 33 is still Coleman and we got some draft capital 

pick 51 or higher (trade a 5th this year and a 3rd next year) AD Mitchell

Pick 95 Troy Franklin

The rest of the draft stays the same 

 

BUT wait we don’t have Bishop at safety or Carter at DT whatever will we do!?!

 

Hmmm maybe this year we let McD get a couple FAs to plug and play. Maybe we don’t go dumpster diving for leftover WRs and instead grab a couple veteran defensive players instead.

 

Why not sign Justin Simmons and Calais Campbell and then next year when it’s a better defensive draft you can address the DT spot

 

Josh now has Coleman, AD Mitchell, Troy Franklin, Khalil Shakir, and Curtis Samuel…oh and McD can have his special teams WR with the last spot too in Hollins, Shavers or Shorter. You know you’d love that WR corps and so would Josh for the next 4+ years
 

Again, Beane did a great job making the best out of a bad situation with his WR room but man what could’ve been if he just leaned into helping his franchise QB out long term instead of short term bandaids. 

This post is funnier than My Cousin Vinny. And that's saying something because that was a funny a** movie. Congrats man. Comedic gold

[GustheDog33]

Time I will never get back.

[NeverOutNick]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

This post is funnier than My Cousin Vinny. And that's saying something because that was a funny a** movie. Congrats man. Comedic gold

Glad I could at least put a smile on your face. You’re welcome. And I agree great movie and boy was Marisa Tomei something special. Honestly she’s still gorgeous