WR Candidates - Who Does Beane Keep?

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Agree to disagree on the draft class. I believe it was it was amazing throughout. 3 top WRs that would’ve been top 10 picks in any draft class and then at least 20 guys after them that will be good NFL pros. You don’t get that most years.

 

Maybe you’re right on Hamler being able to hide on the PS.  He did have the heart scare that I’m sure a lot of teams wanted to do their due diligence with. He’s got unbelievable upside so personally I wouldn’t risk putting him on the PS again especially since I believe if healthy he will be one of the top 5 WRs on this team. But we will see soon enough 

 

I don't dispute that I just think the vast majority of that depth was gone before round 5. Thrash and Washington were the two guys that went later. 

 

On Hamler I liked him coming out a fair bit, whereas I thought Isabella for example was way overdrafted. But at this point they are in the same category. Guys who have just spent a full year on a practice squad without being elevated (Isabella may have been once) or claimed by anyone else. The medical probably does factor in as well for Hamler but like you said there is a batch of new guys that come in every single year and last year's treasure becomes this year's trash quite quickly. I think either of them would have to rip it up in pre-season to not make it through to the PS.  

[NeverOutNick]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't dispute that I just think the vast majority of that depth was gone before round 5. Thrash and Washington were the two guys that went later. 

 

On Hamler I liked him coming out a fair bit, whereas I thought Isabella for example was way overdrafted. But at this point they are in the same category. Guys who have just spent a full year on a practice squad without being elevated (Isabella may have been once) or claimed by anyone else. The medical probably does factor in as well for Hamler but like you said there is a batch of new guys that come in every single year and last year's treasure becomes this year's trash quite quickly. I think either of them would have to rip it up in pre-season to not make it through to the PS.  

Don’t forget Bub Means and Ainais Smith. But yes late 6th and 7th most of the speed guys were gone. Still not sure why Brendan Rice fell so far. 
 

I am pulling for Hamler because he offers something we don’t currently have and honestly he’s still young enough to develop into an every week starter unlike most of the guys we signed to prove it deals. 
 

Ideally Claypool finally gets his head out of his butt and overtakes MVS for the big vertical threat, Hamler is fully healthy and is a RAC superstar, returner and Vertical threat and the last spot will be won by whomever proves to be the special team guy they want. I hate that we have to waste a WR spot for a guy like that and would much rather keep Cephus if he is as sure handed a possession WR that he was in Wisconsin, but Hollins probably leads the way as the guy. Shavers, Isabella and Shorter are all easy PS holdovers and honestly who cares if they got picked up (hopefully I’m wrong and shavers or shorter kills it this camp)

[Mat68]

41 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'll grant you the Shakir point.

As for Shorter over the others last year, I'd argue that it was more than just injury in front of them creating opportunity. Nacua and Wicks (and Demario Douglas, Trey Palmer, and AT Perry) all had more productive college careers than Shorter. They all seemed to possess traits that were more readily projectible into NFL offenses.

Shorter, by comparison, wasn't a particularly good receiver even at Florida, and he seems more like what would come out if you typed "give me a lifelong NFL gunner" into ChatGPT.

 

Shorter is a traits guy who could be a core special teamer and maybe develop into a Hollins type player and career.  If he struggles on teams his career will end abruptly.  My point was they already had that player on the roster with Shakir.  He passed both vetrans brought in.  It was on Shorter to pass Sherfield which he was not able to do.  Thats why you mix veterans and rookies.  Without Sherfield, Shorter is on the roster and would have been a disaster imo.  Lesser the route runner and special team player.  

[First Round Bust]

good stats and chat...I look at this a bit differently without the benefit of the Diggs, Davis skill-set

 

1. Our O got too predictable last mid-season with Diggs  the alpha option which drew the best defender, rolling double coverage, etc - add his loss of speed, the pattern predictability etc...interesting to see the Brady updated playbook and weekly gameplan as there seems to be more diversity (other than the go patterns ?) and more focus on shorter throws into single coverage for our bigger WRs to win a catch in tight coverage and break tackles against smaller corners, blocking is a must to help the run game, so lets see the  route trees, spacing and comfort levels...I dont expect jet sweeps, but WR screens to a bigger-body WR makes sense

 

2. As well how does Josh adapt to this as far as reads and ball placements - despite the top arm in the game, his long ball throws have been erratic, compare to Stroud who places soft loft-air-touch on his long throws...quicker releases-throws from Josh to beat the rush and blitz is good thing.

 

Injuries, depth and special teams - some of these guys will be kept or promoted for that over the course of the long season

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Shakir, Samuel, and Coleman have guaranteed roster spots.  So which strand(s) of spaghetti stick to wall (make the roster)? Will the Bills keep 2 or 3 of the strands?  

 

1. Mack Hollins - 1 year $2,600,000 (cap hit 2.48 - Dead Cap -$1.1)

6'4" 221, age 30, 4th rd pikc (118th Philly) in 2017 out of UNC

40 - 4.53, 10 - 1.59

Career - 95 games, 27 starts, 222 Tgt, 131 Rec, 1691 yards, 12.9 yards/c, 59% reception %

Best - 2022 - 17g, 16 starts 94 Tgt, 57 Rec, 690 yards, 12.1 yards/c, 60.6% reception  %

 

2. Marquez Valdes-Scantling - 1 year $1,125,000 (cap hit 1.125 - Dead Cap -$TBD)

6'4" 206, age 29, 5th rd pick (174th) in 2018 out of S Florida.

40 - 4.37, 10 - 1.49

Career - 92 games, 60 starts, 370 Tgt, 186 Rec, 3155 yards, 17 yards/c, 50.3% reception %

Best - 2020 - 16g, 12 starts 63 Tgt, 33 Rec, 690 yards, 20.9 yards/c, 52.4% reception %

 

3. Chase Claypool - 1 year $1,135,000 (cap hit 1.085 - Dead Cap -$25K)

6'4" 238, age 25, 2nd rd pick (49th, Pitt) in 2020 out of ND.

40 - 4.42, 10 - 1.52

Career - 58 games, 32 starts, 314 Tgt, 175 Rec, 2261 yards, 12.9 yards/c, 55.7% reception %

Best - 2020 - 16g, 6 starts 109 Tgt, 62 Rec, 873 yards, 14.1 yards/c, 56.9% reception %

 

4. KJ Hamler - 1 year $1,055,000 (cap hit 1.055 - Dead Cap -0)

5'9" 178, age 24, 2nd rd pick (46th, Den) in 2020 out of Penn St.

40 - 4.36, 

Career - 23 games, 6 starts, 80 Tgt, 42 Rec, 620 yards, 14.8 yards/c, 52.5% reception %

Best - 2020 - 13g, 4 starts 56 Tgt, 30 Rec, 381 yards, 12.7 yards/c, 53.6% reception %

 

5. Quintez Cephus - 1 year $1,055,000 (cap hit $1.055 - Dead Cap -8K)

6'1" 208, age 26, 5th rd pick (166th, Det) in 2020 out of Wisconsin.

40 - 4.73, 10 - 1.59

Career - 22 games, 6 starts, 60 Tgt, 37 Rec, 568 yards, 15.4 yards/c, 61.7% reception %

Best - 2020 - 13g, 2 starts 35 Tgt, 20 Rec, 349 yards, 17.5 yards/c, 61.8% reception %

 

6. Andy Isabella - 1 year $1,133,000 (cap hit 993K - Dead Cap -8K)

5'9" 188, age 27, 2nd rd pick (62nd, AZ) in 2019 out of U Mass.

40 - 4.31, 10 - 1.45

Career - 43 games, 3 starts, 54 Tgt, 33 Rec, 447 yards, 13.5 yards/c, 61.1% reception %

Best - 2020 - 13g, 2 starts 35 Tgt, 21 Rec, 224 yards, 10.7 yards/c, 60% reception %

 

7. Justin Shorter - 3 years $4,163,948 (cap hit $876K - Dead Cap - 243K)

6'4" 229, age 24, 5th rd pick (150 th, Buf) in 2023 out of Florida.

40 - 4.55, 10 - 1.59

 

8. Tyrell Shavers - 2 yr $1,764,000 (cap hit $799.5 - Dead Cap - 9K)

6'4" 211, age 24, UDFA (Buf) in 2023 out of San Diego St.

40 - 4.59, 10 - 1.63

MVS, Hollins, Claypool.  We will keep a 7th, not sure who.

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

Don’t forget Bub Means and Ainais Smith. But yes late 6th and 7th most of the speed guys were gone. Still not sure why Brendan Rice fell so far. 
 

I am pulling for Hamler because he offers something we don’t currently have and honestly he’s still young enough to develop into an every week starter unlike most of the guys we signed to prove it deals. 
 

Ideally Claypool finally gets his head out of his butt and overtakes MVS for the big vertical threat, Hamler is fully healthy and is a RAC superstar, returner and Vertical threat and the last spot will be won by whomever proves to be the special team guy they want. I hate that we have to waste a WR spot for a guy like that and would much rather keep Cephus if he is as sure handed a possession WR that he was in Wisconsin, but Hollins probably leads the way as the guy. Shavers, Isabella and Shorter are all easy PS holdovers and honestly who cares if they got picked up (hopefully I’m wrong and shavers or shorter kills it this camp)

 

I understand why you are pulling for Hamler. Less so for Cephus I think he sucks. I am not particularly pulling for any of them. I doubt any of them end up as guys I think we MUST keep come September. To be honest I'd keep Tylan Grable if he ends up OL10 over any of those guys as WR6 for the reasons I've set out.... you have to play the claim game.

[TBBills Fan]

4 hours ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

I honestly thought some posters were being overly dramatic on the state of our WR's, but seeing that list is actually bringing me down.

 

Take an upper

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

If they keep Hollins over both MVS and Claypool I’ll be sick to my stomach. 

 

If MVS and Claypool don't make the 53, it's because MVS still hasn't learned to catch, and Claypool still hasn't pulled his head out of his butt.  

 

As a Bills fan, I guess those facts would make me sick too.  

[Aussie Joe]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

If MVS and Claypool don't make the 53, it's because MVS still hasn't learned to catch, and Claypool still hasn't pulled his head out of his butt.  

 

As a Bills fan, I guess those facts would make me sick too.  

MVS isn’t learning to catch between here and September 

[mrags]

23 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

If MVS and Claypool don't make the 53, it's because MVS still hasn't learned to catch, and Claypool still hasn't pulled his head out of his butt.  

 

As a Bills fan, I guess those facts would make me sick too.  

Hollins legit has 1 year in 7 that have surpassed some of those guys worst seasons. They have more talent in their toes than Hollins has in his body. 
 

but disagree with you about Claypools attitude. It would be the only thing holding him back imo. Other than that he makes it. And there’s zero chance that MVS doesn’t make it with his contract and dead cap hit if cut. 

[<bills4life>]

38 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

MVS isn’t learning to catch between here and September 

Especially with Josh’s cannon

[hondo in seattle]

32 minutes ago, mrags said:

Hollins legit has 1 year in 7 that have surpassed some of those guys worst seasons. They have more talent in their toes than Hollins has in his body. 
 

but disagree with you about Claypools attitude. It would be the only thing holding him back imo. Other than that he makes it. And there’s zero chance that MVS doesn’t make it with his contract and dead cap hit if cut. 

 

I was commenting on someone else's post who predicted these two (MVS, Claypool) wouldn't make the squad.  I previously projected they would.  But, if they each have a terrible camp with their worst shortcomings becoming worrisome, they could potentially be cut.  

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I was commenting on someone else's post who predicted these two (MVS, Claypool) wouldn't make the squad.  I previously projected they would.  But, if they each have a terrible camp with their worst shortcomings becoming worrisome, they could potentially be cut.  

I don’t think there’s any way that MVS doesn’t make the team. Claypool like you said is questionable. His attitude is the only reason imo. 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

I will put 5 dollars on it

copy that!!  Bet.  

[msw2112]

I believe that Claypool has the best shot of the bunch to make the team and contribute.  Here's why:

 

Measurables:  he's got the best combination of size and speed from the group.  He's big and also very fast.

 

Age:  at 25, he's still a young guy who may not have hit his prime.  He's old enough that his body is fully developed and he's been in the league a few years, so he has experience with the physical demands of the NFL.  A 20-21 year old coming out of college might still be growing/developing and a skill position guy over the age of 28 might start to be on the decline.

 

Draft Pedigree:  He was drafted fairly high and was not a reach.  He has talent that was recognized around the league.

 

Career Path/Incentive:  He's now on his 4th team in the last couple of years.  He's running out of chances to realize his potential.  Playing with Josh Allen, he could have a big year and secure a long-term lucrative deal with the Bills or another team.   

 

As stated above by another poster, Claypool's biggest problem is his attitude.  If that can be improved, he has the talent to be very good.  As stated by yet another poster, he needs to get his head out of his ass.  Many of these other guys have physical limitations that they may not be able to overcome - too slow, too small, fragile, bad hands, etc. - whereas Claypool has to overcome the mental aspect of the game, which may be a more realistic obstacle to overcome.  Playing with Josh Allen, a great leader who can get the ball into receivers' hands all over the field, can go a long way to helping improve the attitude of a receiver.  Claypool was pretty good when he played with Hall of Fame QB Ben Roethlisberger, but Ben was on the downside of his career at that point, so Claypool may have been even better playing with Ben at the top of his game, a level at which Josh Allen plays (and arguably, Allen plays at an even at a higher level).  Playing with Allen is a benefit to all of the guys on the list, but Claypool has the most talent to take advantage of it.

Edited May 15 by msw2112

[Maynard]

Trade them all for JJ. That a fair deal? 

[Happy Days Lois & Clark]

Samuel, Shakir, and Coleman will make it. Hollins likely make it due to size, experience, leadership, and special teams.

The final 2 spots will be interesting. Who are best at special teams?  Who will be best at creating mismatches?  Who can get open?

 

Samuel and Shakir are good route runners with speed. Coleman  and Hollins can create mismatches with their size. 
perhaps they will go with 1 more speedy receiver who is a potential deep threat, and 1 more large target for the red zone. 

 

I was thinking of mismatches inside the 10 yard line with the size that is available. Coleman, Knox and Kincaid are all about 6’4 and should be effective red zone targets, but if you put 1 or 2 other 6’4 receivers out their with them in that situation, no team could match that kind of size mismatch. 

[The All-Pro-Knox Gallery]

I think Hollins and Claypool battle for the physical blocking WR role. Both have down field ability too. I see this as somewhat of a Davis replacement.

 

I think MVS was brought in to provide some competition for Shorter for that big outside boundary role. Both are big bodied, although slightly different receivers.

 

Isabella vs. Hamler for special teams.

 

Loser of each battle gets cuts. Except Shorter who has PS eligibility.

[Awwufelloff]

Who the f is Mack Hopkins? Jesus Christ we have the worst Wr room in the nfl don’t we? 

[Warriorspikes51]

8 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

Who the f is Mack Hopkins? Jesus Christ we have the worst Wr room in the nfl don’t we? 

Rather than blaspheme and post this, how about looking up Mack H O L L I N S