Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[GolfandBills]

Has a nice skill set our group was lacking.  Nice get for the price at this point in the offseason.  

[Maine-iac]

On 5/18/2024 at 1:25 AM, Beck Water said:

 

It's not just his catch radius that's of concern given his short arms, it's his ability to hold off a DB  down the sideline.  If the DB has a grip on him with 32" arms, the physical vocabulary to break that grip is more limited ('cuz he can't reach him).

While his arm length certainly leaves some question marks about whether he's only capable of playing slot in the NFL he must be doing something right if he's top ten in separation and leading the league in catch percentage.  I'm not trying to move him outside but more suggesting he's been playing with those arms his whole career it's possible he has it figured out to some extent.  It might be more of a match up based problem than an every week problem if they did want to give him snaps outside.  Against certain defenses stacking Shakir and Samuels might be pretty hard to defend.

[Rocky Landing]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s never had a drop in any nfl postseason, not just 8 this postssason.

 

He’s a 2-4MWR…..what do you expect?   No one is saying he’s the second coming.  No o e is saying he’s the answer at the X.  He’s a piece that can play a role and make some plays.  That’s just the truth of the matter.  Those looking for a star, well, he definitely ain’t it.  Those looking for the future X, he ain’t that either.  He’s solid depth that can do some things that we need at a position of need.  
 

 

You're not really saying anything I'm disagreeing with. Neither are you answering anything I brought up. 

 

IMO, his high drop rate, low catch%, and low QR rating when targeted pushes him down the depth chart. And for context, Mack Hollins had a slightly better drop rate, better catch%, and a higher QB rating when targeted (with a far worse QB), and he plays special teams. 

 

The perspective that I disagree with on this thread is the assumption that MVS is a near lock, or that he offers something unique to this roster. I just don't think he does.

[Rocky Landing]

24 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Define an X receiver

"A receiver positioned farthest from center on their side of the field which takes their stance on the line of scrimmage, necessary to meet the rule requiring seven players to be lined up on it at the snap."......... That's a cut and paste from Google. 

 

There's plenty of literature on what makes the position unique, and it's relevance to offensive, and defensive schemes. For the Bills, and Josh Allen, after the loss of Diggs, and Davis it should be a priority. 

34 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

Has a nice skill set our group was lacking.  Nice get for the price at this point in the offseason.  

I get that he's been reliable in the post season, and that's not nothing, but what skill set does he have that is unique to the other 6'4" WRs on the roster? 

[JerseyBills]

This guy could get behind the D for sure, if Josh could find him once a game or every other, this is a phenomenal signing 

 

I'm sure he had other suitors at this price and he's smart for going with a top 2 QB with the biggest arm , to increase his value next year 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Rocky Landing said:

"A receiver positioned farthest from center on their side of the field which takes their stance on the line of scrimmage, necessary to meet the rule requiring seven players to be lined up on it at the snap."......... That's a cut and paste from Google. 

 

There's plenty of literature on what makes the position unique, and it's relevance to offensive, and defensive schemes. For the Bills, and Josh Allen, after the loss of Diggs, and Davis it should be a priority. 

So I can see several guys on the roster that could do that.  Samuel could.  MVS could.  If Claypool gets his head straight he could.  Coleman could.  I can see them splitting Cook out wide out of the backfield.  Kincaid can split wide.  
 

The success or failure of the offense is going to depend on Brady’s schemes and play calling as well as Josh distributing.  If Beane decides he wants to add another WR in a trade fine by me, but I don’t envision it.

[Rocky Landing]

17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So I can see several guys on the roster that could do that.  Samuel could.  MVS could.  If Claypool gets his head straight he could.  Coleman could.  I can see them splitting Cook out wide out of the backfield.  Kincaid can split wide.  
 

The success or failure of the offense is going to depend on Brady’s schemes and play calling as well as Josh distributing.  If Beane decides he wants to add another WR in a trade fine by me, but I don’t envision it.

I don't know if there will be an upgrade available that we can afford, and I don't know where Beane/McD consider it on the priority list.

 

But there's a whole lotta hope in your post. All those guys you mentioned have lined up on the outside at some point in there careers, but I don't think you can consider a single one of them a primary X receiver, or #1WR. Maybe Coleman becomes that? I hate to hang my hat on a rookie, but that's probably where we are.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I don't know if there will be an upgrade available that we can afford, and I don't know where Beane/McD consider it on the priority list.

 

But there's a whole lotta hope in your post. All those guys you mentioned have lined up on the outside at some point in there careers, but I don't think you can consider a single one of them a primary X receiver, or #1WR. Maybe Coleman becomes that? I hate to hang my hat on a rookie, but that's probably where we are.

I just think the critical thing is how Brady uses guys 

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I just think the critical thing is how Brady uses guys 

It's going to have to be!

[Niagara Dude]

I like the signing,  the guy is a 4.3 forty guy.  You can't teach speed

[Dr. K]

I'm not expecting much out of him and I certainly hope the Bills aren't depending on him to be other than the erratic player he's been so far.

 

They're taking the shotgun approach with all these WR signings hoping that one of them hits. That seems reasonable given the situation they find themselves in losing Diggs and Davis, cutting Harty and Sherfield, etc. 

 

What I'm really hoping for is Brady doing a better job of scheming the receivers--including backs and tight ends--open, and not depending on getting number 1 receiver production out of any of them. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

54 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I like the signing,  the guy is a 4.3 forty guy.  You can't teach speed

 

After going through painful seasons with Gabe Davis costing us games with his lack of precision, it is obvious athleticism isn't enough, especially when you sign a small one year deal after just coming off a Super Bowl winning team. If we wanted speed we would have drafted Worthy, but clearly the Chiefs are just throwing darts drafting the best athlete instead of the best choice.

Edited May 20 by EasternOHBillsFan

[Warriorspikes51]

He is more of a true deep threat than Gabe. Faster. Also a good run blocker.   Hands inconsistent, yes.  

Has made critical big plays in the Chiefs playoff games both of the last 2 seasons.

[pennstate10]

22 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

"A receiver positioned farthest from center on their side of the field which takes their stance on the line of scrimmage, necessary to meet the rule requiring seven players to be lined up on it at the snap."......... That's a cut and paste from Google. 

 

There's plenty of literature on what makes the position unique, and it's relevance to offensive, and defensive schemes. For the Bills, and Josh Allen, after the loss of Diggs, and Davis it should be a priority. 

I get that he's been reliable in the post season, and that's not nothing, but what skill set does he have that is unique to the other 6'4" WRs on the roster? 

The skill set that averages 17.5 yds per catch for his career, and 20+ yds per catch for his best year. 
No other Bills WR comes close to those numbers. 

[Mat68]

On 5/19/2024 at 7:03 AM, Billy Claude said:

 

I have to disagree with the bold.  The best recent Bills WR4 was Gabe Davis is 2020 and 2021.  I don't think there is any production statistic one can point to to say that MVS is better than Davis.  Career wise, Davis has also been more productive in the playoffs than MVS.

 

To those who say Beane has never given Allen weapons, I would argue that the 2020 and 2021 receiving corps with top tier guys at WR1 (Diggs) and at slot (Beasley), a very good WR4 (Davis), and also a pretty productive gadget guy (McKenzie), were in fact, elite receiver groups.

 

 

 

Davis in 20 and 21 is close to what MVS averaged in 20 and 22.  Davis more tds but both explosive low efficient players.  The 20, 21 Davis is what MVS could offer. 

[Niagara Dude]

2 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

After going through painful seasons with Gabe Davis costing us games with his lack of precision, it is obvious athleticism isn't enough, especially when you sign a small one year deal after just coming off a Super Bowl winning team. If we wanted speed we would have drafted Worthy, but clearly the Chiefs are just throwing darts drafting the best athlete instead of the best choice.

I think it always a plus to sign receivers from your biggest competitor, I was critical of Beane for losing Diggs but I think he has better overall depth then last season and I look forward to seeing what this group of receivers can do. 

[Rocky Landing]

6 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

The skill set that averages 17.5 yds per catch for his career, and 20+ yds per catch for his best year. 
No other Bills WR comes close to those numbers. 

Hm. By that yardstick (pardon the pun) Tyreek Hill averaged 13.8 ypc during his time in KC, with a season best (2018) of 17.0. I can see why they got rid of him... unless, perhaps... there's something missing from your metric...? Like every other relevant receiving stat?

[Billy Claude]

6 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Davis in 20 and 21 is close to what MVS averaged in 20 and 22.  Davis more tds but both explosive low efficient players.  The 20, 21 Davis is what MVS could offer. 

 

It's a bit unfair to compare MVS's best years statistically to say he would be as good a WR4 as Davis was in 2020 and 2021. 

 

If you compare his last two seasons to the 20 & 21 Davis seasons, MVS falls short in every category;  63 vs 70 receptions, 1002 vs 1148 yards and 3 vs 13 TDs.

 

[pennstate10]

2 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Hm. By that yardstick (pardon the pun) Tyreek Hill averaged 13.8 ypc during his time in KC, with a season best (2018) of 17.0. I can see why they got rid of him... unless, perhaps... there's something missing from your metric...? Like every other relevant receiving stat?

Cmon dude.  The question was "how is MVS different than current Bills receivers".

 

The answer is clear.

 

He's a deep threat; the other arent (except for maybe KJ Hamler).

 

No other Bills receiver averages more than 13 yds per catch, so a career avg of >17 ypc is clearly different than all the rest.  This isnt a subtle finding.

 

And the reason Hill averages only 13.8 ypc is he's a #1.  A >150 target per year guy.  He gets the short, mid, and long targets.  MVS is only a mid/long guy.

 

Will MVS be a success for the Bills ?  I have no idea.  But I'm pretty confident that any success he has wont be as a possession reciever.

[Beck Water]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:17 PM, Rocky Landing said:

I get that he's been reliable in the post season, and that's not nothing, but what skill set does he have that is unique to the other 6'4" WRs on the roster? 

 

Speed.  4.37 second 40 time.  In theory makes him more able to be a deep threat.

Edited May 21 by Beck Water