Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I get that he has short arms, but I'd prefer to call them T-Rex arms.  Alligator arms implies he shies-away from contact and/or can't catch, neither of which is true.

 

But Samuel has long arms and I expect him to start outside, like did 70% of the time when he was with Brady in Carolina.

 

I thought I had read that Samuel lined up 72% from the slot or something like that, with Brady in CAR?

This is what I could find:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5343167/2024/03/14/buffalo-bills-curtis-samuel-free-agency/

Quote

Samuel was lined up as the slot receiver on 74.6 percent of the time over 2022 and 2023. But he also has the versatility and function of lining up in the backfield, which he did on 63 snaps over the last two seasons. In 2022, he had 38 rush attempts for 187 yards. Samuel could very well become a hybrid between the two spots while also being able to line up outside, providing an interesting skill set that the Bills did not have on their offense last season.

Quote

Samuel’s final season with the Panthers was the first year current Bills offensive coordinator Joe Brady held the same role in Carolina. Brady’s usage of Samuel was notable considering the role he projects to have in Buffalo. Over his three years in Washington, Samuel was used in the backfield on only 4.6 percent of his offensive snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. But in his lone year with Brady as an offensive coordinator, that rate more than doubled as he lined up in the backfield on 10.6 percent of his offensive snaps in 2020.

 

concludes

Quote

But make no mistake, he is not a boundary receiver by trade. The Samuel acquisition still leaves a glaring hole at the X-receiver position left vacant by the Davis departure. Samuel simply makes the offense a bit more unpredictable when he’s on the field.

and

Quote

All in all, Samuel is a good, modest middle-tier signing for the money they got him, but the depth chart still screams for another significant addition.

 

I can't find anything indicating Samuel was used as an outside receiver with Brady in Carolina, much less 70% of the time.

 

Would appreciate learning your source.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Ive been looking for an article or a website that discusses this, its why I ask. Is this a pff thing?

 

Not a PFF thing. A measurement thing. I suppose a combine thing.

[nedboy7]

Part of the back-story with Marquez Valdes-Scantling signing with Buffalo: Josh Allen had him over to his house for dinner Monday night as part of the receiver's free agent visit. The two hit it off, and MVS decided that night he wanted to be a Bill.

[Beck Water]

59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When did you last see an alligator shy from contact? I'll hang up and listen. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I get the point. The point is nonsense. That is my point. 

[Rocky Landing]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

His arms are short.

Is it NextGen Stats that has the metrics for catch radius? It’d be interesting to know what Shakir’s stat is in that regard, because it’s not just a measurement of his arm length. I’ll guess his catch radius is actually pretty good for his height. 

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Is it NextGen Stats that has the metrics for catch radius? It’d be interesting to know what Shakir’s stat is in that regard, because it’s not just a measurement of his arm length. I’ll guess his catch radius is actually pretty good for his height. 

 

Arm length isn't just about catch radius. In the context of this discussion it's about if he can play outside. Joe Marino pointed out a few weeks ago there have been three WRs ever with sub-30" arms that had meaningful careers - Isaiah McKenzie, Hunter Renfrow, and the 3rd one escapes me now but in any case it was all career slot WRs.

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

His arms are short.

You have alligator breath.

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is in the 1st percentile among NFL receivers. 

 

Why mention what? I am not the one who started a debate over whether alligators or t-rex's are the right equivalent for short armed receivers. 

 

If you had said T-Rex, we would have understood you.   T-rex arms had anatomically short arms as everyone knows.  Alligator arms are the appendages of cowardly receivers who don't want to fully extend for fear of being hit.  Shakir may have T-rex arms but he doesn't have alligator arms.  

 

Edited May 17 by hondo in seattle

[GunnerBill]

Just now, hondo in seattle said:

 

If you had said T-Rex, we would have understood you.   T-rex arms were anatomically short arms as everyone knows.  Alligator arms are the appendages of cowardly receivers who don't want to fully extend for fear of being hit.  Shakir may have T-rex arms but he doesn't have alligator arms.  

 

I can't be responsible your understanding being based on nonsensical.

[hondo in seattle]

On 5/17/2024 at 12:45 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I can't be responsible your understanding being based on nonsensical.

 

The use of colloquialisms is hardly nonsensical.  Everyone on this side of the pond understands the sense.    

 

Now, calling a cookie a biscuit is nonsensical.   I can't imagine the Bills fans of yore yelling out, "Lookie, Lookie, Here Comes Biscuit!"  when Carlton Chester "Cookie" Gilchrist rumbled down the field with the ball.  (Instead of Cornelius Bennett).

 

Edited May 18 by hondo in seattle

[wjag]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Josh and Diggs fell out over a year before he played is last game here. There was definitely a point of "gone as far as this relationship can." But the point @Beck Water made is still true. Trading Diggs was not, primarily, a cap move. It was a culture / relationship re-set. 

 

I was as shocked as anyone that the untradeable Diggs was traded.  But in retrospect, those inside the team appeared to know.  Think about it.  Reporters were constantly asking last year, "you guys good"?  We as fans were bothered by that and just wanted that noise to stop.  Now we get to another off season and Diggs starts acting up yet again.  And soon enough he is off the team.  My gut tells me, it was a combination of Allen-Diggs cooling, Brady's shift to Cook, and Diggs desire to be back in an offense that was more wide open.  I think we fans want to lean into the narrative that players play for each other when in fact players play for gold and recognition.  Especially receivers.  Receivers get maybe 10-12 chances per game to shine.  And when that number is reduced to 8 or 6 or 4, that directly effects their chances and their pocket books.  

 

I'm looking forward to this season as a season where Josh matures into THE team leader.  Gone are his security blankets (Morse, DIggs and Davis).  We now get to see Josh become Brady-esque or Mahommes-esque where he elevates the games of the people that play with him.  

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

T-rex arms I've heard of in the context of either an Edge or LT/RT with very short arms.

 

I've not heard of T-Rex arms in the context of a receiver.

[Nephilim17]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have to fight the good fight with you lot 13 months of the year.

Just wait till the folks on this side of the pond bugger up some Britishism, like bully, cottaging, or the C word. I bet you'll suddenly be a stickler for usage then.

[Rocky Landing]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But haven't you heard? Wide receivers are ten a penny and some sort of money ball gumpf about "yard accumulators" means this is actually the Bills out-smarting the league. If only the other teams were smart enough to go with a wing, a prayer, and an alligator armed slot receiver!!

 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Arm length isn't just about catch radius. In the context of this discussion it's about if he can play outside. Joe Marino pointed out a few weeks ago there have been three WRs ever with sub-30" arms that had meaningful careers - Isaiah McKenzie, Hunter Renfrow, and the 3rd one escapes me now but in any case it was all career slot WRs.

That is incorrect. The context of "alligator arms" started with the post above from GunnerBill, who has apparently been hacked by BADOLBILZ.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, dgrochester55 said:

 

 

I am not necessarily taking a leap of faith and assuming a good group.  Whether or not this works is wholly based on whether or not Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel and Coleman are ready to take on larger roles.  It is not a guarantee that it will or wont happen, we will have to see.  I do not think that it is ideal, but much better than where were in 2018( the primary topic of the post that I responded to).

 

I also do not feel like a declining disgruntled Diggs and a replacement level Davis were any more likely to elevate the group in 2024 then the current group.  In addition, any of our top four WR options are likely to produce more than Sherfield and Harty in 2023. 

 

We took a huge risk by not coming in with a true #1. We can only hope that it either pays off or that Beane and McDermott are willing to trade for someone if they begin to think that it won't

 

 

 

Yeah like I said,  that 2018 Bills WR corps helped produce the fewest points thru 8 games of any NFL team in the SB era.

 

In hindsight, that might be the absolute lowest point in the history of the Bills with regard to combined WR/TE/RB talent.  

 

 But remember that at this time of the offseason in 2018:

 

1) Kelvin Benjamin was still expected to play like a 60 ypg backend WR1 in the NFL

2) It was presumed 2nd round pick Zay Jones would make big strides in an expanded role

3) Charles Clay had averaged 600 yards per season over the previous 5 seasons(558 in 2017)

4) LeSean McCoy was coming off a 1,000 yard season  

 

Every homer on TSW expected as good or better production each of them in 2018 and was glad to tell me so when I laughed at the unimpressive cast of playmakers they'd "assembled".    There was even talk about McCoy using the TB12 method to avoid hitting the RB wall (I sh!t you not).

 

-Benjamin put up a 37% catch rate and an impossible 22.6 pass rating when targeted and 7 INT when targeted

-Zay Jones was terrible as well........76.9 passer rating when targeted with 5 INT attributed

-Clay produced just 184 yards and 60.4 pass rating when targeted

-McCoy was pathetic with 514 yards on 3.2 ypc

 

 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

 

That is incorrect. The context of "alligator arms" started with the post above from GunnerBill, who has apparently been hacked by BADOLBILZ.

 

I have always been clear I think Shakir can be a good slot receiver (and indeed was last year). He can't play outside. The wing and the prayer were the outside guys. Shakir was the alligator armed slot receiver. But apparently that is the wrong reptile.

[Jon in Pasadena]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 I can't imagine the Bills fans of yore yelling out, "Lookie, Lookie, Here Comes Biscuit!"  when Carlton Chester "Cookie" Gilchrist rumbled down the field with the ball.  

Well yeah. Cornelius Bennett was only like 2 years old during Cookie's last season with Denver.

 

Was probably already hitting harder than Edmunds, though.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

I thought I had read that Samuel lined up 72% from the slot or something like that, with Brady in CAR?

This is what I could find:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5343167/2024/03/14/buffalo-bills-curtis-samuel-free-agency/

 

concludes

and

 

I can't find anything indicating Samuel was used as an outside receiver with Brady in Carolina, much less 70% of the time.

 

Would appreciate learning your source.

 

It's actually in the middle.  I searched the original thread and it was closer to 50% outside with Brady in 2020. 

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I thought I had read that Samuel lined up 72% from the slot or something like that, with Brady in CAR?

This is what I could find:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5343167/2024/03/14/buffalo-bills-curtis-samuel-free-agency/

 

concludes

and

 

I can't find anything indicating Samuel was used as an outside receiver with Brady in Carolina, much less 70% of the time.

 

Would appreciate learning your source.

 

This is correct. And of those 20-something% of snaps that weren't lined up at Slot, more than half came out of the Backfield.

 

He is NOT a Boundary WR. Which is why we Drafted Keon Coleman, ignored slot WR's in the Draft, and then signed MVS and Claypool.