BillsFanForever19 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) It's pretty clear this season is about evaluating the development of Dalton Kincaid in Year 2, Khalil Shakir in Year 3, Keon Coleman in his Rookie year - playing along with the long term addition of Curtis Samuel. They've surrounded them with a number of guys who have shown differing levels of production on other teams with other QB's and/or a skill profile that at least gave them a high Draft pedigree in MVS, Mack Hollins, Chase Claypool, Quintez Cephus, Justin Shorter, KJ Hamler, and Andy Isabella. 7 players (plus 4 other UDFA's/Futures) playing for 3 positions. If you can't afford high end quality, bring in quantity and find the best performing from that field. I much prefer the concept of bringing in a bunch of lower to mid level guys and choosing the best from the field as opposed to last year of just bringing in Harty and Sherfield and hoping for the best. After this season, they'll have an idea as to what levels Coleman, Kincaid, Shakir, and Samuel are at with Josh and the Offense and circumvent accordingly in FA and the Draft. Edited May 15 by BillsFanForever19 4 Quote
3rdand12 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said: McDermott came out and said these guys are going to need to have greater roles than in the past. Beane all but said Coleman starts. You can tell there has been a change at OBD. How it works out...who knows Can we suggest the change is "get much better at Coaching the kids up to their potential , and much more quickly please ? " Quote
BananaB Posted May 15 Posted May 15 1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said: McDermott came out and said these guys are going to need to have greater roles than in the past. Beane all but said Coleman starts. You can tell there has been a change at OBD. How it works out...who knows Believe it when I see it. I’ve said this team is treading water for years. Name are changing but it’s the coaching staff with the same game time decisions will bring this team down. McD like his vets, he’ll give them the benefit of the doubt every time. That won’t change. If a rookie struggles he’ll be on a short leash. That won’t change Quote
Don Otreply Posted May 15 Posted May 15 31 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said: Not mad about moving on from Diggs, except we didn't really do so. We replaced Davis with Keon and Diggs with.... no one. Hoping Josh can raise the level of others around him. That’s cool, me, I’m not worried about Diggs non replacement, even though I wanted a WR double dip in the draft. 2 Quote
NewEra Posted May 15 Posted May 15 19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The defensive struggles didn't start after they got Von Miller. They'd been slapped around in the playoffs defensively by the Texans, Colts and the Chiefs twice by that time. Right, in games where we had no defensive lines and no pass rush. He needed more pass rush talent because Beane invested in the wrong guys. (Murphy, star, Addison, butler). We had one starting caliber DL, Jerry. You know this. We all know you know this. We’ve all read your posts stating how Beanes poor allocation of resources into our DL has cost us big time. Every offseason we talked about how we can fix our pass rush because Jerry wasn’t enough. Ed oliver to the rescue. Rousseau, epenesa, Basham all drafted to fix the problem. That didn’t happen. So we break the bank for Von Miller. And that actually worked…..until that unfortunate Thanksgiving day that we lost von for the next 2 playoffs (and maybe his career). so McD is supposed to stop KC and Cinci with addison, Shaq, butler, settle, always injured Phillips, star, Murphy, Basham and AJ rushing the passer. Got it. Rousseau is a very good DL, but only a slightly above average pass rusher. AJ is solid. Floyd and Miller were nonexistent in the playoffs. Ed is great, but was completely shut down vs KC in the playoffs- as he had to play 80% of the snaps. Mcdermott couldn’t find a way to stop Mahomes and Kelce with AJ Klein out there the entire game with no pass rush. Talent matters…..just like it matters for playmakers offense. How many super bowls are won by teams with no pass rush and a crap DL? Not many. That said, I don’t think McD is without fault. He has been part of the problem in season ending losses. Other parts include injuries, offensive/defensive game plan and execution. 1 1 2 1 Quote
NewEra Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) 34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: 😂😂 Overachieved vs KC in the playoffs he says KC got 21 first downs on 47 total plays run. That's an astonishing 45% of their plays going for a first down. They scored 27 points in 47 plays...which means they averaged well over a half a point PER PLAY RUN That is astonishingly bad defense. There is no way around it It was astonishingly bad defense. And again- We were missing our two stud Lbs that were the pulse for our defense to start the season. our mlb and player that gave up 2 TDs, was on the couch every Sunday a month prior. We were missing both of our starting corners and Douglas had an injured knee. Our biggest investment on D (von) was useless. Our biggest offseason acquisition (floyd) played 38% of the snaps after having already run out of gas in week 11. Our 2 best DL (Rousseau and Oliver) got dominated in their one on ones. our starting safeties - 1 signed for 2M. The might be retired. But yeah- Stop Mahomes and Kelce. More importantly, stop them with AJ Klein covering Kelce. Edited May 15 by NewEra 1 2 Quote
MasterStrategist Posted May 15 Posted May 15 24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: 😂😂 Overachieved vs KC in the playoffs he says KC got 21 first downs on 47 total plays run. That's an astonishing 45% of their plays going for a first down. They scored 27 points in 47 plays...which means they averaged well over a half a point PER PLAY RUN That is astonishingly bad defense. There is no way around it And somehow it could have been worse, imagine that?! Klein can't keep up with anyone. Dodson playing with 1 arm, should have recovered a fumble early. Douglas hobbling on 1 functional knee. Poyer/Hyde showing their age, and a DL that got manhandled once again. No way around that (injuries/what Coach had to work with). We had players in position, no execution Quote
GoBills808 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 11 minutes ago, NewEra said: It was astonishingly bad defense. And again- We were missing our two stud Lbs that were the pulse for our defense to start the season. our mlb and player that gave up 2 TDs, was on the couch every Sunday a month prior. We were missing both of our starting corners and Douglas had an injured knee. Our biggest investment on D (von) was useless. Our biggest offseason acquisition (floyd) played 38% of the snaps after having already run out of gas in week 11. Our 2 best DL (Rousseau and Oliver) got dominated in their one on ones. our starting safeties - 1 signed for 2M. The might be retired. But yeah- Stop Mahomes and Kelce. More importantly, stop them with AJ Klein covering Kelce. What is the point of having a defensive HC if the defense can't overcome adversity? Milano has been roasted by Kelce and Mahomes every bit as bad as Klein was and White hasn't been out starting corner for two years now 2 2 1 Quote
BigDingus Posted May 15 Posted May 15 49 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: But they got Curtis Samuel to replace Cole Beasley! And MVS is our Isaiah McKenzie replacement... It's all coming together! Quote
DrMaxPower Posted May 15 Posted May 15 This place has been miserable AF since the draft. The worst it's been since 'Wrong Josh'. Everyone wanted a Playstation for Christmas but when they came downstairs, there was a bike with socks and underwear. Instead of realizing that there's nothing wrong with a bike and we really needed new socks and gotch, it's tantrum time. Are we going to have to endure this endless whining for the next 6 months? Sounds like a fun way to be a fan... Last off-season people were losing their minds because they intended to run Spencer Brown back out there and they didn't sign a MLB. They said their guys were in house and they believed in their development. Seems to have worked out OK. That's what good teams do. Can we not take a breath and wait and see? 2nd best record in the league over the last 5 years says they deserve at least a bit of confidence. They aren't the morons people want to make them out to be. 4 2 1 4 Quote
BADOLBILZ Posted May 15 Posted May 15 1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said: I don't think our coaching has been 'superior' by any means, but good enough IMO. Bengals game was a complete letdown players and coaches. Our front 4 is in position by default. Our DL has not elevate their game/let alone play to their standard for multiple playoff losses. I'm more concerned with that being a "Beane" issue. Investing resources, draft and FA alike. Good philosophy, but poor investment choices. Could easily run down a big list of failed options. That's been our achilles heel, IMO. He's done a solid job in other aspects, and obviously nailed the most important position.... But if we had 1 all pro on DL and back 7, healthy throughout playoffs, our coaches would look like geniuses. Injuries has played into that of course. As much as many like to point to WR rooms, for SB teams. They conveniently leave out that almost every SB team has an elite DL or secondary. Have the 3 Chiefs SB winning teams all had elite DL units or secondaries? I don't think that's the case. I go back to being able to adapt your defensive scheme to your opponent. That's Spag's calling card. 1 Quote
BananaB Posted May 15 Posted May 15 7 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said: This place has been miserable AF since the draft. The worst it's been since 'Wrong Josh'. Everyone wanted a Playstation for Christmas but when they came downstairs, there was a bike with socks and underwear. Instead of realizing that there's nothing wrong with a bike and we really needed new socks and gotch, it's tantrum time. Are we going to have to endure this endless whining for the next 6 months? Sounds like a fun way to be a fan... Last off-season people were losing their minds because they intended to run Spencer Brown back out there and they didn't sign a MLB. They said their guys were in house and they believed in their development. Seems to have worked out OK. That's what good teams do. Can we not take a breath and wait and see? 2nd best record in the league over the last 5 years says they deserve at least a bit of confidence. They aren't the morons people want to make them out to be. If your happy with just winning regular season games your good. A lot of us just think those wins don’t mean ***** if you can’t win in the playoffs 2 Quote
Richard Noggin Posted May 15 Posted May 15 5 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said: This place has been miserable AF since the draft. The worst it's been since 'Wrong Josh'. Good thing I, and everyone thinking like me, was wrong about the "Wrong Josh" thing. (Granted I didn't whine on a message board because what self-respecting adult would do that amiright?!) 5 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said: Everyone wanted a Playstation for Christmas but when they came downstairs, there was a bike with socks and underwear. Instead of realizing that there's nothing wrong with a bike and we really needed new socks and gotch, it's tantrum time. Are we going to have to endure this endless whining for the next 6 months? Sounds like a fun way to be a fan... We all know the answer here. Obviously (remember when that was a fun Bills joke, obviously?!) 5 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said: Last off-season people were losing their minds because they intended to run Spencer Brown back out there and they didn't sign a MLB. They said their guys were in house and they believed in their development. Seems to have worked out OK. That's what good teams do. Bernard and Brown definitely outperformed all external expectations. Love to see it from drafted talent entering years two and three. That's REALLY important. 5 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said: Can we not take a breath and wait and see? 2nd best record in the league over the last 5 years says they deserve at least a bit of confidence. They aren't the morons people want to make them out to be. But but but what about our Dunning-Kruger Effects?! 1 Quote
DrMaxPower Posted May 15 Posted May 15 1 minute ago, BananaB said: If your happy with just winning regular season games your good. A lot of us just think those wins don’t mean ***** if you can’t win in the playoffs They haven't been able to get passed the best team in the league. That doesn't mean the whole operation is a failure. If not for some truly rotten injury luck I think they would have done so a couple times. 6 Quote
NewEra Posted May 15 Posted May 15 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: What is the point of having a defensive HC if the defense can't overcome adversity? Milano has been roasted by Kelce and Mahomes every bit as bad as Klein was and White hasn't been out starting corner for two years now It’s funny how you people can’t acknowledge how our talent level on defense was crippled due to injury. Acting as if a defensive coach should be able to overcome Mahomes and Reid with a bunch of backups on the field. Which team has done that before? Were the bengals missing half of their starting D when they beat KC in the playoffs? How about the Tampa D in the Super Bowl? The pats in 2019? No, no and no. again…..injuries weren’t the only reason. I acknowledge that McD has his shortcomings and they have contributed to us not winning any SBs. As has execution. As has injuries. Luck matters. 31 teams end up losers every year. Not acknowledging that the injuries have played a role in our defensive performances is just being stubborn. The resounding narrative: Allen needs better WRs. Implying that in order to win, he needs better players. Meanwhile, McD is expected to overcome the adversity of fielding backups at almost 50% of starting D positions….while playing against Mahomes and Reid. Got it. Say samuel, Dawkins and Kincaid miss the playoffs. Overcome adversity. Riiiiight. No. Season over. 2 2 Quote
BananaB Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said: They haven't been able to get passed the best team in the league. That doesn't mean the whole operation is a failure. If not for some truly rotten injury luck I think they would have done so a couple times. They have been trying to do it for how long? When the ***** are they gonna get it right? How many opportunities do we give them? At some point you gotta say enough is enough, this ain’t working and move on. Edited May 15 by BananaB 1 1 Quote
MasterStrategist Posted May 15 Posted May 15 7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Have the 3 Chiefs SB winning teams all had elite DL units or secondaries? I don't think that's the case. I go back to being able to adapt your defensive scheme to your opponent. That's Spag's calling card. Of course they did. 2019, Chris Jones wasn't as dominant as now, but he was still an elite DT. Frank Clark was a solid option, albeit not elite. 2022 and 2023. Chiefs had an elite DL and secondary IMO. All pros on both levels. I should clarify that I'm looking at Chris Jones being elite, as a game wrecker up front. Same with secondary, really in 2022 and 2023. They had 2 all pro guys and solid complementary guys. Chiefs were lucky to reach the SB in 2019 season, IMO. Obviously more to it than 1 player or 2. But that's what I'm trying to highlight. To everyone saying a Top 1/2 WR is a necessity. Those teams have "elite" players on the other side of the ball, in key positions (DL/secondary). As much as Milano has been elite, he isn't changing games. We haven't had a single elite player healthy at DL or CB when facing KC or Cincy in playoffs. Tre out in 2021, downhill from there. Von injured in 2022, shell of himself LY. There's a reason we've been able to compete and beat KC in regular season. Our DL has showed up in wins, and we haven't been as banged up. Still lacking a true gamechanger on DL, Beane took his swing with signing Von. He needs to be able to draft one at some point 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: It’s funny how you people can’t acknowledge how our talent level on defense was crippled due to injury. Acting as if a defensive coach should be able to overcome Mahomes and Reid with a bunch of backups on the field. Which team has done that before? Were the bengals missing half of their starting D when they beat KC in the playoffs? How about the Tampa D in the Super Bowl? The pats in 2019? No, no and no. again…..injuries weren’t the only reason. I acknowledge that McD has his shortcomings and they have contributed to us not winning any SBs. As has execution. As has injuries. Luck matters. 31 teams end up losers every year. Not acknowledging that the injuries have played a role in our defensive performances is just being stubborn. The resounding narrative: Allen needs better WRs. Implying that in order to win, he needs better players. Meanwhile, McD is expected to overcome the adversity of fielding backups at almost 50% of starting D positions….while playing against Mahomes and Reid. Got it. Say samuel, Dawkins and Kincaid miss the playoffs. Overcome adversity. Riiiiight. No. Season over. It's all about their crusade on McD at this point, and wanting to see him gone. I swear he'll win us a SB and people will still be claiming their opinion is right. Some ppl can't admit they're ever wrong. That's a major character flaw if you ask me. Nobody is perfect, I find it easy to admit I'm wrong, especially when I'm being very outspoken on a topic. Just the world we live in 3 Quote
GoBills808 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 5 minutes ago, NewEra said: It’s funny how you people can’t acknowledge how our talent level on defense was crippled due to injury. Acting as if a defensive coach should be able to overcome Mahomes and Reid with a bunch of backups on the field. Which team has done that before? Were the bengals missing half of their starting D when they beat KC in the playoffs? How about the Tampa D in the Super Bowl? The pats in 2019? No, no and no. again…..injuries weren’t the only reason. I acknowledge that McD has his shortcomings and they have contributed to us not winning any SBs. As has execution. As has injuries. Luck matters. 31 teams end up losers every year. Not acknowledging that the injuries have played a role in our defensive performances is just being stubborn. The resounding narrative: Allen needs better WRs. Implying that in order to win, he needs better players. Meanwhile, McD is expected to overcome the adversity of fielding backups at almost 50% of starting D positions….while playing against Mahomes and Reid. Got it. Say samuel, Dawkins and Kincaid miss the playoffs. Overcome adversity. Riiiiight. No. Season over. Ok we are never going to agree then And regardless it's off topic at this point Quote
NewEra Posted May 15 Posted May 15 9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Have the 3 Chiefs SB winning teams all had elite DL units or secondaries? I don't think that's the case. I go back to being able to adapt your defensive scheme to your opponent. That's Spag's calling card. No, but their superstar elite difference maker that always seems to put his stamp on big games has never missed a playoff games. He’s different and we don’t have that. Von was that guy vs KC in the 22 regular season. He WAS the closer we needed. He closed that game out in KC, a true PTPer. Then he was gone and so was our PTPer. Maybe it’s McDs fault that our DL can’t win one on ones in the biggest games of the year. Guys need to make plays. It’s not 💯 coaching Yes, Spags is one of the best DCs ever. Another reason why McD hasn’t been able to overcome. McD had Allen and Diggs- no other elite players or coaches. KC has Reid and Spags calling all the plays. 2 elite HoF coaches. Mahomes, Kelce, Jones. 3 first ballot HoFers all likely top 5 in their positions all time. Mahomes and Kelce may end up both being the best. Plus several all pros many would call elite. And McD is supposed to beat them with half of his best players on D injured? 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 😂😂but I will just add We werent missing '50% of the starting defense' It was two LBs and one corner That's it 1 Quote
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