Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[harmonkillebrew]

11 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

You can argue that Beane could have done more (I can see an argument for Troy Franklin at pick 95 but I also don’t think this teams fortunes are going to rest on if they took a WR in late round 3). But after losing Diggs, Harry, Sherfield and Davis: Beane has done a decent job of attempting to replacing them.
 

Hollins is a better version of Sherfield, Samuel is a nice vet addition, Coleman was the teams top pick invested into the position. They added MVS who is a better receiver than Harry or Sherfield and they are kicking the tires on Claypool, Hamler and Isabella again. That’s in addition to Shorter coming in off his red shirt season.

 

The Bills also invested 3 additional picks at other spots along the offense. Davis, Van Pran and Grabel all add depth to the offense and Van Pran may be a starter.

 

Given the limited resources I think they have put together a solid offense for Josh. They also have the 2025 draft capital and the ability to add 6 million more in space by restructuring the rest of Josh’s contract both of which can assist in an in season trade if there is more help needed.

Bills made a conscious decision to not prioritize WR this offseason. We'll see if it works.

Coleman does not = Diggs

MVS does not = Davis

Samuel is the only upgrade, over Harty

Hollins = Sherfield

 

They're definitely going for the committee approach. But I'm worried the threat of the explosive play, big chunk (15+ yds) is pretty much absent, meaning D's will stack the box making it harder to run and do much with the short passing game.  It will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

[YattaOkasan]

37 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The performance of the WRs in the corps is what concerns me. It is also what determines their numbering. I like Samuel and Shakir, but they are both WR3s in a good WR corps. We will see what Coleman can become. I’ll leave that as TBD. Beyond that I just see WR4s and below. 

I share your concern about the top end of our WR room, but thought WAS had a good WR corp last year with McLaurin, Samuel, Dotson (their QB play was so bad) and he was WR2 there.  He was there most successful WR and had the best catch %.

[BeastMaster]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

At this point in the offseason and given where the Bills WR depth chart is/was....I like the signing of MVS.

The WR corps is still not where I'd like it to be, I'd still rather they had taken a WR in the 3rd and spent the MVS money on a free agent DT (rather than the other way around), and I still feel they didn't do enough on offense this offseason.

All of that being said, and with me having cried over spilt milk enough already...I think MVS will help this team. He has a skillset that this WR corps was lacking. As pointed out in a Tweet above, while he does struggle with drops at times, he also makes big catches in big moments. See: vs Bills, vs Ravens, vs 49ers in the playoffs this year.

I'm just irritated because it has constantly felt like we're a step (or two) behind the Chiefs lately, and this just continues that trend. Two years ago, they decided to get cheaper and younger, shipped off a highly paid WR1, and said "we'll get by on scraps and young guys". They drafted a WR in round two, signed a mid-tier WR and some bargain bin guys in FA, and proceeded to have one of their worst offensive outputs of the Mahomes era. They then had to spend the next two offseasons signing and drafting MORE wide receivers because they realized that, even with Mahomes at QB and Reid at OC, they needed more offensive weaponry in the 2024 NFL.

We're where they were two seasons ago. We're at the "we'll just get a pile of different matchup guys and trust the QB and OC to make it work!" part of the story arc. I predict that the offensive output will take just as much of a dip as theirs did, and that we, too, will spend the next two offseasons trying to dig out of it. Hopefully, our tight end and defense step up the way theirs did to allow us to win even though our offense is, predictably, sagging.

It would just be nice to feel like we're setting the trends, or zigging when others are zagging. That we're learning from others' mistakes, blazing our own trail, and being the team that OTHER teams want to copy.  Instead, it just feels like we're doing whatever the Chiefs are doing, but two seasons later. I hate it.

I think this reads as a Debbie Downer post, and TBH I have problems with it.

 

First off, I really think your nit picking with this obsession of wanting to draft another WR in the third and signing a JAG DT. We got a versatile DL that has some real upside where we need someone young at the position besides Oliver. We have a young receiving group and MVS fills not only a element we seem to be lacking, but also has alot of experience to add to our group. I'd rather that then what you suggest.

 

Secondly, yeah...you can say we are making Chiefs moves years after them, but they really didn't do much for Mahomes, and I would argue that the Bills had more on offense and that they did more to help Josh and the offense in general. Mahomes was left with Kelce, no noteworthy RB's, and they drafted Sky Moore. The Bills have Cook, Kincaid, Knox, and Shakir...while they brought in Samuel and drafted Coleman and Davis along with guys that have some talent in Claypool and Hamler to challenge others like Hollins and Shorter. That is much better support than the Chiefs gave Mahomes after Tyreek was dealt. 

 

I would be willing to bet that this offense stays pretty much where they were at last season, and they are for sure in the top half of the league.

 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

And I always thought Jerry Rice was lucky to have had Montana, Young and MVP Gannon as his QBs throughout his prime.  

 

MVS has had Rodgers, Mahomes and now Allen as his QBs and still has yet ro eclipse 700 yards, at 6'4" with "4.3 speed".  😐

[wppete]

6’4 210

4.37 - 40 yard

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Bills made a conscious decision to not prioritize WR this offseason. We'll see if it works.

Coleman does not = Diggs

MVS does not = Davis

Samuel is the only upgrade, over Harty

Hollins = Sherfield

 

They're definitely going for the committee approach. But I'm worried the threat of the explosive play, big chunk (15+ yds) is pretty much absent, meaning D's will stack the box making it harder to run and do much with the short passing game.  It will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

I have it as

Coleman > Davis (currently)

Samuel << Diggs

Hollins > Sherfield (not sure why you say equal when Hollins has produced as receiver)

Shakir > Harty (that replacement happened last year)

 

stacking the box may not work with a good screen game that Shakir, Coleman, and Samuel have all demonstrated and ability towards.  I also think teams have enough respect for Allen and his yolo style that they will not stack the box too much.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Bills made a conscious decision to not prioritize WR this offseason. We'll see if it works.

Coleman does not = Diggs

MVS does not = Davis

Samuel is the only upgrade, over Harty

Hollins = Sherfield

 

They're definitely going for the committee approach. But I'm worried the threat of the explosive play, big chunk (15+ yds) is pretty much absent, meaning D's will stack the box making it harder to run and do much with the short passing game.  It will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

 

Here's the thing though..

 

Diggs under Brady wasn't Diggs.  I don't know who that dude was, but it wasn't anything remotely resembling a WR1.

 

Gabe Davis became even more of a head scratcher as the season went on.  Any chemistry he had with Josh had completely disappeared.

 

On paper, is our WR room better?  No rational fan will say yes.. but it is deeper.. and it is younger.. and it does have more specific skillsets.  

 

Can we hope Coleman-Shakir-Samuel-MVS-Hollins can give us a Green Bay WR room base level?  I don't think that's at all out of the question. 

[wppete]

4 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I have it as

Coleman > Davis (currently)

Samuel << Diggs

Hollins > Sherfield (not sure why you say equal when Hollins has produced as receiver)

Shakir > Harty (that replacement happened last year)

 

stacking the box may not work with a good screen game that Shakir, Coleman, and Samuel have all demonstrated and ability towards.  I also think teams have enough respect for Allen and his yolo style that they will not stack the box too much.

Much improved WR room. 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, BeastMaster said:

I think this reads as a Debbie Downer post, and TBH I have problems with it.

 

First off, I really think your nit picking with this obsession of wanting to draft another WR in the third and signing a JAG DT. We got a versatile DL that has some real upside where we need someone young at the position besides Oliver. We have a young receiving group and MVS fills not only a element we seem to be lacking, but also has alot of experience to add to our group. I'd rather that then what you suggest.

 

Secondly, yeah...you can say we are making Chiefs moves years after them, but they really didn't do much for Mahomes, and I would argue that the Bills had more on offense and that they did more to help Josh and the offense in general. Mahomes was left with Kelce, no noteworthy RB's, and they drafted Sky Moore. The Bills have Cook, Kincaid, Knox, and Shakir...while they brought in Samuel and drafted Coleman and Davis along with guys that have some talent in Claypool and Hamler to challenge others like Hollins and Shorter. That is much better support than the Chiefs gave Mahomes after Tyreek was dealt. 

 

I would be willing to bet that this offense stays pretty much where they were at last season, and they are for sure in the top half of the league.

 

 

 

The Chiefs signed Juju Smith-Schuster and Marquez Valdes Scantling (both of whom were reasonably coveted in that FA period), both of whom got $10million deals. The Bills' big offseason WR signing, for comparison, is making $8million per year.

The Chiefs then drafted a wide receiver in the second round, just like the Bills did this year. Beyond that, you're mentioning guys like Hamler, Claypool, Hollins, and Shorter, which...case in point. Shakir is the only one I'll maybe grant you, and while I do like him, he hasn't proven to be anything better than "average to good" in the NFL so far, based on his production to date. Or you're bringing up James Cook and Ray Davis which, okay, sure, the Bills should hopefully be able to run the ball. Lovely. It doesn't change the fact that they're throwing a bunch of low quality noodles at the wall to see what sticks at the wide receiver position.

As for the contention that the Bills offense will stay "pretty much where they were last season"...I guess we'll see. Personally, I doubt that happens. It didn't happen with the Chiefs when they went young and cheap, and they have a better quarterback and offensive playcaller than the Bills do.

 

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

Much improved WR room. 

No.  Big concerns at the top (as mentioned above), but better at the bottom yes.  No clue how that translates to production cause Diggs was part of the reason why the bottom had opportunity. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I'd be okay with this. We don't have a field stretching WR on the roster. He gives us a baseline for that role, albeit a low baseline.

 

This is a great signing. He’s been on some championship caliber teams. Good depth is so important. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

The Chiefs signed Juju Smith-Schuster and Marquez Valdes Scantling (both of whom were reasonably coveted in that FA period), both of whom got $10million deals. The Bills' big offseason WR signing, for comparison, is making $8million per year.

The Chiefs then drafted a wide receiver in the second round, just like the Bills did this year. Beyond that, you're mentioning guys like Hamler, Claypool, Hollins, and Shorter, which...case in point. Shakir is the only one I'll maybe grant you, and while I do like him, he hasn't proven to be anything better than "average to good" in the NFL so far, based on his production to date. Or you're bringing up James Cook and Ray Davis which, okay, sure, the Bills should hopefully be able to run the ball. Lovely. It doesn't change the fact that they're throwing a bunch of low quality noodles at the wall to see what sticks at the wide receiver position.

As for the contention that the Bills offense will stay "pretty much where they were last season"...I guess we'll see. Personally, I doubt that happens. It didn't happen with the Chiefs when they went young and cheap, and they have a better quarterback and offensive playcaller than the Bills do.

 

 

It comes down to Josh Allen.

 

Josh Allen is Patrick Mahomes equal in the postseason.  The only difference is the Chiefs around him step up in those moments, whereas the Bills around JA do not. 

 

Where they are not equal is the regular season.  Mahomes, last season was a bit off, but is typically very steady.  High levels of play with a high floor.  Josh Allen has high levels of play, but will have games where he is literally the reason we lost.  

 

That can't happen this year.  Tough schedule and we need Josh Allen elevating that regular season floor. 

[ToGoGo]

Was he a dropper in GB? Or is this just based on a couple drops in KC during prime time games? 

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

It comes down to Josh Allen.

 

Josh Allen is Patrick Mahomes equal in the postseason.  The only difference is the Chiefs around him step up in those moments, whereas the Bills around JA do not. 

 

Where they are not equal is the regular season.  Mahomes, last season was a bit off, but is typically very steady.  High levels of play with a high floor.  Josh Allen has high levels of play, but will have games where he is literally the reason we lost.  

 

That can't happen this year.  Tough schedule and we need Josh Allen elevating that regular season floor. 

There was 1 game this year that was the reason we lost which was the Jets game. What other games can you think of since 2020? 
 

Also has Mahomes ever been the reason KC lost? Or did the rest of the team step up to save his butt? Like let’s say against the Jets this year. 

[ChiGoose]

I figured this is just a depth signing but this makes me think there’s a chance he’s an impact player:

 

 

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

 

They're definitely going for the committee approach. But I'm worried the threat of the explosive play, big chunk (15+ yds) is pretty much absent, meaning D's will stack the box making it harder to run and do much with the short passing game.  It will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

Definitely the committee approach.  The guys who will play have been or look like 600-800 yard guys.  It's hard to get to 4000 yards total passing yards if no one goes over 800.   Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir, Coleman, and MVS get 800 each?   Possible, but not likely.  As I've been saying, someone is going over 1000; we just don't know who it is.  Any of Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir and Coleman could do it.  

 

But stacking the box?   No, it isn't happening.  Samuel, Shakir, and MVS all have legitimate deep speed, and if defenses want to put 7 and 8 in the box to stop the run and the short pass, the Bills will torch them deep.  We've seen Shakir do it, and we know Samuel can do it. MVS is now the third.   Throughout his career, Josh has burned defenses that play too close to the line.  

 

This is definitely a yards-after-catch committee.  Shakir, Samuel, and Coleman all are punt returners, and Cook is a serious threat, too.  

 

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Was he a dropper in GB? Or is this just based on a couple drops in KC during prime time games? 

Always been a dropper.

Lack of trustworthy hands is probably the biggest reason that a guy his size that runs a 4.37 and has played with Rodgers and Mahomes his whole career has never posted 700 yards receiving in a season.

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Right, like I said the Bills don't have a field stretching WR on the roster.

What does Bean keep saying now? Your last game shows who your players really are. The Bills' current stumbling block is getting out of the conference to the SB.

 

MVS has played in three conference championship games:

 

2020: 4 catches for 115 yards and 1 TD

2022: 6 catches for 116 yards and 1 TD

2023: 2 catches for 38 yards but caught the game clinching 32 yarder with 2 minutes to go

 

[dgrochester55]

In the grand scheme of things, Buffalo did address the WR position by signing two veterans in Samuel and MVS and spending their top draft pick on Coleman.  Unfortunately, it takes a lot to replace the loss of four receivers including the two who were seen as the #1 and #2.  Keeping them may not have been better.  Diggs' was disgruntled and his production was dropping off.  Davis did not adjust to a starting role like hoped and was playing replacement level at best.  Harty and Sherfield did virtually nothing so even if the top two out of the MVS/Claypool/Cephus/Shorter/Hollins/Hamler group get 20-30 catches each, it is an upgrade over those two.

 

This was also a cap strapped year, so Buffalo needed to be creative in adding depth. They went with borderline and last chance veterans at minimum contract levels instead of mid and late round draft picks at the WR position. Whether or not that pays off remains to be seen.

 

Allen did a good job of spreading the ball around after Brady took over, but the lack of a clear #1 is still a long term concern. We can only hope that Shakir, Coleman or Kincaid can develop into that role.  In the meantime, if four of our receiver group can play consistently this season, we will be fine running this offense in 2024.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Was he a dropper in GB? Or is this just based on a couple drops in KC during prime time games? 

 

 

 

[BananaB]

Average vet that will slow the development of a young player. McDs way. Been doing it on Dline for years.