Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I have read that argument and have read that argument and have read that argument.  Franchise tag values and number of players at that position drafted in the early rounds do not concur.

 

 

I like that other guy better who told me I was wrong to consider that, and 2019 WR with Brown and Beasley would be more comparable (though even there, that was a WR corps that fell way short and left Allen targeting Duke Williams and Pat DiMarco in the playoffs)

2019 WR group was so good, Beane tried to trade for Sanders and Diggs twice. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Shakir. 

 

With respect, @GunnerBill, "Alligator Arms" isn't the usual usage to mean short arms - it's usually used to mean a guy with a low catch % or bad hands.

 

T-rex arms is more common to describe Shakir's arm length.

 

To his credit, he worked very hard in the off-season to improve his catch % and was impressively surehanded last season.

Edited May 17 by Beck Water

[CNYfan]

I thought "alligator arms" was a guy who was afraid to really go after a ball over the middle.   Makes half hearted effort on balls with hitters in the area.   Not someone whose arms are physically short.

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

MVS is a proven playoff performer.  We need more of them

Bills added Edwards and MVS both have 2 SB rings as starters or key role players. Hollins also has a ring with the Eagles where he was a ST role player. So that’s 3 players added with rings as staters or role players.
 

They also have David Edwards and Rapp who were starters on the 2021 Rams team. Also Douglas was on the Eagles Super Bowl team but didn’t play much in the playoffs. Then of course this team has Von who was a Super Bowl MVP with the Broncos and then a key starter on the 2021 Rams team. 
 

So there’s some nice Championship experience on the roster as Deion Jones also played in a Super Bowl. 
 

Hopefully that translates to more playoff success

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I get that he has short arms, but I'd prefer to call them T-Rex arms.  Alligator arms implies he shies-away from contact and/or can't catch, neither of which is true.

 

But Samuel has long arms and I expect him to start outside, like did 70% of the time when he was with Brady in Carolina.

 

Alligators have short arms.

12 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

With respect, @GunnerBill, "Alligator Arms" isn't the usual usage to mean short arms - it's usually used to mean a guy with a low catch % or bad hands.

 

T-rex arms is more common to describe Shakir's arm length.

 

To his credit, he worked very hard in the off-season to improve his catch % and was impressively surehanded last season.

 

I don't know why. Alligators have short arms. That is what Shakir has. Short arms. Like an alligator. I have never seen an alligator drop a football.

Edited May 17 by GunnerBill

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Alligators have short arms.

 

I don't know why. Alligators have short arms. That is what Shakir has. Short arms. Like an alligator. I have never seen an alligator drop a football.

 

We're not debating the factual arm length of alligators, which is indeed, as you note, short.

We're pointing out the difference in the common meaning of the term "he alligator armed it"

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

No argument at all on the Gross. 

 

Impressed by the Mike Williams call-out.  I would not have picked that up since his contribution was 142 yds in 2014.

I do sense a bit of a "moving bar" since your initial metric was >1000 yd season, which neither Williams or Matthews had.

If we're now looking at 900 yd seasons, a couple of guys we have now came close to that, which along with the Mike Williams ROI, may just illustrate the point that "past performance no guarantee of future results" (Claypool etc)

 

I don't think you addressed my question though: 
Would you like to make an argument that the 2018 WR corps was (at least on paper) better than what we have now?

 

Don't put words in my mouth.  

 

My "initial metric" has been 900 since I brought the point up weeks ago.   

 

It's not a "now" thing........when I looked it up there were just a few outlier seasons with guys like Matthews and Williams who barely fell under 1,000.  

 

Claypool and MVS have been added since and still not cleared that very low bar.  

 

Did I need to make the bar 996 yards?   No, because nobody they have has even got to 900. 

 

OBVIOUSLY with guys like Reed,  Lofton, Brooks, Early, Moulds, Price, Evans, Stevie Johnson, Watkins, Benjamin, Brown, Diggs and Sanders they have almost always started a season with someone with over 1,000 since the league went to 16 games.    More often than not, TWO.  

 

You understand that, right?

 

As for your 2018 question........who cares?   Is that brutal offense supposed to be some sort of bar?   That squad was going nowhere with a rookie QB and ultimately scored the fewest amount of points any NFL team thru the first 8 games of an NFL season since the merger. (Which when brought up by the media McDermott said "would we like to score 50 points every game?  Sure. )

 

What matters now is that the Bills WR corps stacks up as a bottom 1/3 of the league in a year where they are a SB contender.   Why is that?   Because of what they lack up top.   Which is part and parcel to my point.

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Alligators have short arms.

 

These go to 11.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We're not debating the factual arm length of alligators, which is indeed, as you note, short.

We're pointing out the difference in the common meaning of the term "he alligator armed it"

 

Then why is alligator arms not short hand for short armed receivers? His arms are short. Like an alligators. He is alligator armed. That's it.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Then why is alligator arms not short hand for short armed receivers? His arms are short. Like an alligators. He is alligator armed. That's it.

It’s because in football, alligator arms is already used for the TJ Grahams of the world who have to snap their arms like the jaws of an alligator to catch. 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Then why is alligator arms not short hand for short armed receivers? His arms are short. Like an alligators. He is alligator armed. That's it.

 

Why are avocado and olive oil both named for the source of the oil, but baby oil named for the intended recipient?

Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?
"the English language is a wriggling thing, building on the words before it in unpredictable directions."

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Why are avocado and olive oil both named for the source of the oil, but baby oil named for the intended recipient?

Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?
"the English language is a wriggling thing, building on the words before it in unpredictable directions."

 

I mean most of those are Americanisms. I can't explain why you lot can't speak properly. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Then why is alligator arms not short hand for short armed receivers? His arms are short. Like an alligators. He is alligator armed. That's it.

 

 

No he is T-Rex armed.

 

Alligator armed suggests cowardice.

 

It makes no sense, true,  but it's how it's interpreted.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No he is T-Rex armed.

 

Alligator armed suggests cowardice.

 

It makes no sense, true,  but it's how it's interpreted.

 

In Wizard of Oz the lion was cowardly. But then King Richard was a "lionheart" because he was brave. I won't be constrained by people's nonsensical understandings.

[FireChans]

This is peak offseason content rn.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

In Wizard of Oz the lion was cowardly. But then King Richard was a "lionheart" because he was brave. I won't be constrained by people's nonsensical understandings.

 

But how long were their arms?

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No he is T-Rex armed.

 

Alligator armed suggests cowardice.

 

It makes no sense, true,  but it's how it's interpreted.

i always saw it as the phrase alligator arms was alliterative, and thus maybe a bit frivolous, so denoting cowardice was a reasonable connection

 

whereas t-rex arms could be descriptive of an unfortunate physical feature on an otherwise capable specimen

[Simon]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I won't be constrained by people's nonsensical understandings.

 

Then be prepared to have your observations misinterpreted by the people you are communicating with.

Fwiw, when you referred to our alligator-armed slot, I could not figure out who you were talking about as I had never seen Shakir shy from contact.

[dgrochester55]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 The Bills haven't started a season without a WR that had accumulated at least 900 yards(a low bar) in any NFL season since 1987.    

 

Right now, that's the case unless they trade for someone who's proven they can be a WR1 or a good WR2.    

 

It's just another unnecessary leap of faith at the position.........same as the past 2 offseasons(which ultimately failed the team) but a considerably larger leap this time.

 

 

 

 

I am not necessarily taking a leap of faith and assuming a good group.  Whether or not this works is wholly based on whether or not Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel and Coleman are ready to take on larger roles.  It is not a guarantee that it will or wont happen, we will have to see.  I do not think that it is ideal, but much better than where were in 2018( the primary topic of the post that I responded to).

 

I also do not feel like a declining disgruntled Diggs and a replacement level Davis were any more likely to elevate the group in 2024 then the current group.  In addition, any of our top four WR options are likely to produce more than Sherfield and Harty in 2023. 

 

We took a huge risk by not coming in with a true #1. We can only hope that it either pays off or that Beane and McDermott are willing to trade for someone if they begin to think that it won't

 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Then be prepared to have your observations misinterpreted by the people you are communicating with.

Fwiw, when you referred to our alligator-armed slot, I could not figure out who you were talking about as I had never seen Shakir shy from contact.

 

When did you last see an alligator shy from contact? I'll hang up and listen.