Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[Maine-iac]

Just now, FireChans said:

Fair enough. I disagree. I think the defensive investments haven’t been good enough and I think the offensive investments haven’t been enough. 

It's tied 7 for 7 (unless I'm counting wrong) since Allen's draft.  

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

It's tied 7 for 7 (unless I'm counting wrong) since Allen's draft.  

7 for 7 first and second round picks?

[Maine-iac]

Just now, FireChans said:

7 for 7 first and second round picks?

If you count the 1st we traded for Diggs ........ yes.  Unless I missed something.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/draft.htm

[Einstein's Dog]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

If you want to see how Coleman, Shakir and Kincaid show out this year before seeing if that move is necessary, then you wait. 

This seems like an insane strategy to me.  Wanting to see how a rookie shows out?  Placing too much emphasis on a rookie early would be a mistake IMO.  That is a rebuild.  Rookies normally take time to improve and progress - like Kincaid last year for example.

 

Now having Samuel/Coleman in a split as WR2makes so much more sense for a contending team.

[FireChans]

Just now, Maine-iac said:

If you count the 1st we traded for Diggs ........ yes.  Unless I missed something.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/draft.htm

So, starting in 2019?

 

2019:

1st on D, second on O

2020: 

1st on O, second on D

2021:

1st on D, second on D.

2022:

1st on D, second on O.

2023:

1st on O, second on O.

2024:

Second on O, second on D.

so

2 firsts and 4 seconds on O. 

3 firsts and 3 seconds on D.

 

you’re right, it’s close. But let’s look at the investments themselves.

 

Diggs

Cook

Kincaid

OCT

Ford

Coleman TBD

 

Now, besides big Cody who sucked, all of those investments have been slam dunks. Partially because Josh is our QB, but that’s the point. Diggs was elite when paired with Josh. There’s a lot of hope that Kincaid will be elite next year. OCT and Cook are good enough to be starters for the near future 

 

Let’s look at the defensive investments:

 

Oliver

Rousseau

Boogie

Elam

AJE

Bishop (TBD)

 

Besides Oliver, do any of these dudes stand out at all? Elam and Boogie are busts. AJE is a rotational backup. Greg Rousseau is an NFL starter.

 

I guess asked a different way, with Josh Allen at QB, would you rather have the first list or the second list? Imo, it’s clear and away the first.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Do you honestly think we had a #1 for the 2nd half of LY?

 

Diggs wasn't playing that way, injury or otherwise; IMO.

 

We managed to be successful and go 6-1

 

 

And Josh Allen had to run the ball over 9x per game during that stretch to get that done.    

 

Not sustainable.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

So… MVS huh?

 

 

You didn't think discussion of signing a washed-up MVS was going to generate 40 pages of responses, did you?

 

Each vet scrub they sign is just making it more likely that they are going to camp with a dog's breakfast of a WR corps..........hence the expansion of the discussion.

 

But if you have more to add about MVS than was already said,  by all means.

 

48 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Now having Samuel/Coleman in a split as WR2makes so much more sense for a contending team.

 

Yeah that would be akin to when they brought in Sanders to split WR2 role with Gabe Davis.

 

Davis hands were always too bad to play any meaningful snaps from the slot but Sanders could go inside-outside like Samuel.

[Turbo44]

Washed up at 27 years old, or so? Interesting. He may suck but it isn’t because he’s washed up. KC probably doesn’t win the SB last year without him btw. 

[Big Turk]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:16 AM, oldmanfan said:

That’s funny.  He ran away from the Jets DBs.  But our WRs have no speed.  Maybe it was an optical illusion.

 

He runs a 4.42, he isn't slow.

On 5/14/2024 at 9:16 AM, FireChans said:

He played more than twice as much as Harty and had more balls thrown his way. It’s inarguable he was higher than Harty on the depth chat. That one bum outproduced the other bum is less relevant. 
 

Those are offensive snaps only.
 

He was the de facto WR2 in the KC game because Gabe was hurt. So he was really WR3 in boundary depth. Because Shakir exists as a slot guy, Sherfield was technically 3/4 imo. 

 

It will be the same this year. Mack Hollins or MVS will be starting at outside WR if someone twists an ankle. They won’t be WR5-6.

O/U on carries in game 1?

 

line set at 4.5, hammering the under.

 

Who cares about game 1?  The Bills are notoriously slow at bringing rookies along. I'm more interested how things are progressing around week 7 or 8.

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He runs a 4.42, he isn't slow.

 

Who cares about game 1?  The Bills are notoriously slow at bringing rookies along. I'm more interested how things are progressing around week 7 or 8.

The guy who said, “I bet you won’t say that when you watch him play.”

 

I think when you draft a 25 year old running back, he better be contributing week 1, because his career countdown begins.

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And Josh Allen had to run the ball over 9x per game during that stretch to get that done.    

 

Not sustainable.

2021: 61 rushes over final 7 games reg season (under Daboll)

 

2023: 63 rushes over final 7 games reg season (Brady)

 

I'd say this has been his norm.  I would say that's a high #, and hopefully with growth in our rushing attack/better efficiency & a legit #2 RB that stat can decrease.

 

But let's not act like it was some historic difference and call it "not sustainable", more like "not preferable, but similar to past years"

Edited May 15 by MasterStrategist

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

This is an admission by Beane that Coleman won't be able to contribute much next season. 

 

Even Brian Baldinger said Coleman has the raw physical skills but he's a project.

 

Looks like 

 

Diggs - replaced by Samuel

Davis - Replaced by MVS

Shakir holds down the slot position.

 

Only 5 WRs active on game day last season and one was a KR - Harty

 

Diggs 

Davis

Shakir

Sherfield

Harty - KR

 

2024

Samuel

MVS

Shakir

Shorter

KR ????

 

Coleman inactive 

Edited May 15 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

It was. Their other second round pick was a safety and their third round pick was a backup DT.
 

They also got rid of their #1 and #2 WR this off-season. 
 

I will ask these questions, point blank.
 

Do you think the Bills, over the course of the last 6 years of Josh Allen’s career, have done enough to put offensive talent around him? Your definition of enough may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

Do you think the high round investments in defense have paid off? I’m talking about AJE. Rousseau. Oliver. Edmunds. Boogie. Your definition of paid off may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

my answer is no and no.

No , is my answer.

I would be spoiling him rotten by now.

But  line was my priority by far , till last year. I feel they have made that a functioning unit.

 I now like the TE room quite well with the balance of Knox and Kincaid and Morris (is he still on the team lol ? )
So whats left ? Is the WR group. and thats a point of discussion.

Next year some money frees up and and then Beane needs to be  "All In "  lol at the position.

🙂and DE or two

[MasterStrategist]

14 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

This is an admission by Beane that Coleman won't be able to contribute much next season. 

 

Even Brian Baldinger said Coleman has the raw physical skills but he's a project.

 

Looks like 

 

Diggs - replaced by Samuel

Davis - Replaced by MVS

Shakir holds down the slot position.

 

Only 5 WRs active on game day last season and one was a KR - Harty

 

Diggs 

Davis

Shakir

Sherfield

Harty - KR

 

2024

Samuel

MVS

Shakir

Shorter

KR ????

 

Coleman inactive 

Haha what a troll job.

 

I'll put whatever $$$ amount up against your claim that Coleman will be a healthy inactive.  DM me

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

2021: 61 rushes over final 7 games reg season (under Daboll)

 

2023: 63 rushes over final 7 games reg season (Brady)

 

I'd say this has been his norm.  I would say that's a high #, and hopefully with a legit #2 RB that stat can decrease.

 

But let's not act like it was some historic difference and call it "not sustainable", more like "not preferable, but similar to past years"

 

 

Yeah if they just start out pounding the rock with Josh Allen from the get-go and get him those 150-160 carries and 20-22 rushing TD's they should actually be able to be a #1 seed for once.  

 

You're right........why are they wasting money on receivers?    They can just do this with Allen for the next 10 years.   No problem.   Totally sustainable.

 

 

Edited May 15 by BADOLBILZ

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

They lost due to defensive depth and the lack there of.  Stayed the course with an old defensive core that hobbled down the stretch.  Poyer, Hyde, White, Jones, and Miller were either hurt, hobbled or ineffective.  They had to pivot from that and did. Jones was the most effective and financially did the best they could with Miller. 

We're always defensively hobbled by the end of the season.  We're always spent defensively as we enter the playoffs.  We're like a distance runner with no stamina or late kick. We can never get a critical defensive play against Mahomes or Burrow. 

 

Meanwhile all Josh has done in 10 career playoff games is have 26 combined tds and only 6 turnovers.  Since Josh stepped on the field as a rookie, the Bills organization has NOT had a compelling or dominating pass rusher.  That's a McD issue....

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Would that investment instead on offense result in a better payoff is the point

YES.

Partially hindsight from me though.

I was on board with building a defense the 1st year or two. Then shifted 180 when the secondary looked strong and smart.

 The way McBeane has going about building offense is late , to say the least.

Build the trenches. Inside out mentality.

 Late learning is better than none at all might be fair to suggest here.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The guy who said, “I bet you won’t say that when you watch him play.”

 

I think when you draft a 25 year old running back, he better be contributing week 1, because his career countdown begins.

Same as every age RB.  4 years and 👋🏻 good bye.  Age means nothing in his regard imo.  He isn’t getting a 2nd contract.  Maybe he starts slowing down at 29.  Who cares, he’ll be gone.  

[oldmanfan]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

You don't seem to keep up with the regular conversations held on this board. Hopkins was the discussion of the offseason last year. @BADOLBILZ firmly wanted us to sign him. Earlier in the thread you said people aren't naming specific WRs they wanted us to draft. You're just way out of the loop. Which is obviously fine, but it's weird to have strong opinions on this stuff when you're not really paying attention to the discussion.

Perhaps.  I am of the mind to see how things work out once actual football is played.  I know that may sound irresponsible.

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

if we hold the ball for 38 mins we likely win

 

similarly if Diggs comes down w that catch we likely win

 

both those are addressed by having a legit wr1

 

Wasn't Diggs a "legit wr1"?    He dropped a pass.   Guess what, even HOF WRs drop passes.  People aren't robots; they screw up frequently.

 

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

If you're going to go in on a big investment at WR, either via FA or a trade next year, why wait?

 

That's the part I don't really get. 

 

Why purposefully leave that bullet out of the chamber this year, in one of Allen's prime years, if you plan on doing it anyway next year. 

 

To what?... Save your RD2 pick and provide a slightly cleaner cap because you didn't have to make room/push money down the road by bringing said player in this year?

 

To me that seems illogical.  

 

If you're looking to make that move next year, you should explore making it this year.  

 

If you want to see how Coleman, Shakir and Kincaid show out this year before seeing if that move is necessary, then you wait. 

 

Maybe because you don't have the cap space to pay that WR franchise savior?

 

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Would you like to answer my questions?

 

LOL.  This is funny coming from you because you never did answer my question mucho pages ago.   In case you've forgotten, I asked you to name one of the WRs you would have taken instead of Ray Davis in the 4th round because you've been continually whining that the Bills should have taken another WR on Day 3 and you singled out Davis.

 

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The guy who said, “I bet you won’t say that when you watch him play.”

 

I think when you draft a 25 year old running back, he better be contributing week 1, because his career countdown begins.

 

LOL.  You're still trashing the Davis pick even though you don't have any idea of the WRs who were left when the Bills picked in Round 4.   Here are the WRs taken after the Bills picked at #28 in the 4th round in the order they were drafted in rounds 4-7:  Jacob Cowing, Anthony Gould, Ainais Smith, Jaman Thrash, Bub Means, Jha'Quan Jackson, Malik Washington, Johnny Wilson, Casey Washington, Tejhaun Painter, Jordan Whittington, Ryan Flournoy, Brenden Rice, Devaughn Vele, Tahj Washington, Cornelius Johnson.  So, who would you have picked?