Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[FireChans]

  On 5/15/2024 at 5:57 PM, Mat68 said:

As many as it takes.  Oliver, Rousseau, and Bernard are 3 of the best players on the defense and all were day 1 and 2 picks.  

Expand  

So when Josh is 35 and the defense continues to implode in the postseason, the answer is still gonna be “we just need to keep drafting DL high?”

 

Interesting.

 

FWIW, Oliver got erased by KC’s IOL. He had 1 assisted tackle. Rousseau has 1 sack and 1 TFL in his postseason career. Terrell Bernard has 5 career postseason tackles. 
 

Kinda makes my point for me.

[Maine-iac]

  On 5/15/2024 at 6:02 PM, FireChans said:

So when Josh is 35 and the defense continues to implode in the postseason, the answer is still gonna be “we just need to keep drafting DL high?”

 

Interesting.

 

FWIW, Oliver got erased by KC’s IOL. He had 1 assisted tackle. Rousseau has 1 sack and 1 TFL in his postseason career. Terrell Bernard has 5 career postseason tackles. 
 

Kinda makes my point for me.

Expand  

1st player off the board the last two years was a TE and WR no?

[FireChans]

  On 5/15/2024 at 6:06 PM, Maine-iac said:

1st player off the board the last two years was a TE and WR no?

Expand  

It was. Their other second round pick was a safety and their third round pick was a backup DT.
 

They also got rid of their #1 and #2 WR this off-season. 
 

I will ask these questions, point blank.
 

Do you think the Bills, over the course of the last 6 years of Josh Allen’s career, have done enough to put offensive talent around him? Your definition of enough may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

Do you think the high round investments in defense have paid off? I’m talking about AJE. Rousseau. Oliver. Edmunds. Boogie. Your definition of paid off may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

my answer is no and no.

[Maine-iac]

  On 5/15/2024 at 6:12 PM, FireChans said:

It was. Their other second round pick was a safety and their third round pick was a backup DT.
 

They also got rid of their #1 and #2 WR this off-season. 
 

I will ask these questions, point blank.
 

Do you think the Bills, over the course of the last 6 years of Josh Allen’s career, have done enough to put offensive talent around him? Your definition of enough may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

Do you think the high round investments in defense have paid off? I’m talking about AJE. Rousseau. Oliver. Edmunds. Boogie. Your definition of paid off may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

my answer is no and no.

Expand  

If we spent all those picks on offense and they didn't work out would you be asking if we keep using picks on offense?  You do it until it works.

[Mat68]

  On 5/15/2024 at 6:02 PM, FireChans said:

So when Josh is 35 and the defense continues to implode in the postseason, the answer is still gonna be “we just need to keep drafting DL high?”

 

Interesting.

 

FWIW, Oliver got erased by KC’s IOL. He had 1 assisted tackle. Rousseau has 1 sack and 1 TFL in his postseason career. Terrell Bernard has 5 career postseason tackles. 
 

Kinda makes my point for me.

Expand  

They lost due to defensive depth and the lack there of.  Stayed the course with an old defensive core that hobbled down the stretch.  Poyer, Hyde, White, Jones, and Miller were either hurt, hobbled or ineffective.  They had to pivot from that and did. Jones was the most effective and financially did the best they could with Miller. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

So… MVS huh?

[GoBills808]

  On 5/15/2024 at 5:57 PM, Mat68 said:

As many as it takes.  Oliver, Rousseau, and Bernard are 3 of the best players on the defense and all were day 1 and 2 picks.  

Expand  

Would that investment instead on offense result in a better payoff is the point

[FireChans]

  On 5/15/2024 at 6:14 PM, Maine-iac said:

If we spent all those picks on offense and they didn't work out would you be asking if we keep using picks on offense?  You do it until it works.

Expand  

Would you like to answer my questions?

[Doc]

  On 5/15/2024 at 6:21 PM, Mat68 said:

They lost due to defensive depth and the lack there of.  Stayed the course with an old defensive core that hobbled down the stretch.  Poyer, Hyde, White, Jones, and Miller were either hurt, hobbled or ineffective.  They had to pivot from that and did. Jones was the most effective and financially did the best they could with Miller. 

Expand  

 

No Bernard, Benford or Rapp.  And no Davis on offense.

[HappyDays]

Just throwing this out there because we could have had OBJ over MVS if we really wanted to:

 

I would bet MVS's cap hit comes in pretty close to $2M. We intentionally chose him over OBJ as a player, not for financial reasons. We'll see how that decision turns out.

[Warriorspikes51]

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:09 PM, HappyDays said:

Just throwing this out there because we could have had OBJ over MVS if we really wanted to:

 

I would bet MVS's cap hit comes in pretty close to $2M. We intentionally chose him over OBJ as a player, not for financial reasons. We'll see how that decision turns out.

Expand  

 

didn't OBJ say he chose Miami over KC and BUF ? 

[Aussie Joe]

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:09 PM, HappyDays said:

Just throwing this out there because we could have had OBJ over MVS if we really wanted to:

 

I would bet MVS's cap hit comes in pretty close to $2M. We intentionally chose him over OBJ as a player, not for financial reasons. We'll see how that decision turns out.

Expand  

I wouldn’t  be surprised if they both play to their contract value….unimpressive 

[HappyDays]

  On 5/15/2024 at 5:41 PM, SWATeam said:

Reality just doesn't bear this out.  Last year KC had 9 drives and scored 5 times, two of which were FG's.  They were 1-5 on third down.  Cin also scored 5 times on 9 drives with two of those scores being FG's while we managed a grand total of 10 points.  2021 KC game wasn't a score fest until the end, with the Bills D also forcing 5 third down stops.

 

 

Expand  

 

You're right, I exaggerated. Better way to say it is the Bills offense needs to be capable of putting up 35 points in the playoffs. I think that's the caliber of offense that would get us over the hump in the playoffs regardless of how our defense performs.

 

  On 5/15/2024 at 5:46 PM, Shaw66 said:

You know what that says to me?   It says the difference between the two teams is on the defensive side of the ball.   The Chiefs' approach is NOT to make their offense completely unstoppable.  It's to have Mahomes plus a defense that wins in the playoffs.  

Expand  

 

Yes that is the Chiefs approach.

 

Edited May 15, 2024 by HappyDays

[Andrew Son]

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:16 PM, HappyDays said:

 

You're right, I exaggerated. Better way to say it is the Bills offense needs to be capable of putting up 35 points in the playoffs. I think that's the caliber of offense that would get us over the hump in the playoffs regardless of how our defense performs.

Expand  

I feel like many are just stuck on results.  

 

We lost two coin flip games vs. KC which easily could have went the other way.  Say we close out that 13 seconds and Josh hits Shakir for that score.  In those scenarios we would have won 5 straight vs. KC.  Would everything then be OK and KC would be the ones with a process that doesn't work?

 

Everyone wants better players at all positions.  But I have a hard time saying that our defensive investment has been a mistake, especially considering what I consider to be extremely poor injury luck to a majority of our impact defenders.

[HappyDays]

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:14 PM, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

didn't OBJ say he chose Miami over KC and BUF ? 

Expand  

 

Kind of.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10119807-nfl-rumors-odell-beckham-jr-considered-chiefs-bills-before-dolphins-contract

 

  Quote

Appearing on Saturday's episode of SportsCenter, ESPN's Jeremy Fowler said the Kansas City Chiefs and Buffalo Bills were "in the mix" for Beckham before he picked the Dolphins:

 

"Odell Beckham is betting big on Mike McDaniel unlocking him. He wants to produce, and he still wants to be a prime target. He feels like the Dolphins can help him get there. Now, they had an upside package of a little over $8 million, so they came to a sweet spot there in the negotiation. There were some other teams in the mix. I was told Kansas City was appealing to Odell Beckham, Buffalo as well. But in the end, he believes this offense can still help him prove something."

Expand  

 

Not hard to read between the lines on this - Miami gave him a better offer with better incentives so he chose them over us or the Chiefs. It came down to money like it always does.

 

Edited May 15, 2024 by HappyDays

[Maine-iac]

  On 5/15/2024 at 6:12 PM, FireChans said:

It was. Their other second round pick was a safety and their third round pick was a backup DT.
 

They also got rid of their #1 and #2 WR this off-season. 
 

I will ask these questions, point blank.
 

Do you think the Bills, over the course of the last 6 years of Josh Allen’s career, have done enough to put offensive talent around him? Your definition of enough may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

Do you think the high round investments in defense have paid off? I’m talking about AJE. Rousseau. Oliver. Edmunds. Boogie. Your definition of paid off may be different than mine, and that’s fine.

 

my answer is no and no.

Expand  

yes and yes

 

 

Edited May 15, 2024 by Maine-iac

[Mat68]

MVS and OBJ have similar production over the last 6 years.  MVS is a better deep threat and healthier. 

[Maine-iac]

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:24 PM, HappyDays said:

 

Kind of.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10119807-nfl-rumors-odell-beckham-jr-considered-chiefs-bills-before-dolphins-contract

 

 

Not hard to read in between the lines on this - Miami gave him a better offer with better incentives so he chose them over us or the Chiefs. It came down to money like it always does.

 

Expand  

Who do you think has a better year this year, Chase Claypool or OBJ?  I actually don't have an answer and I'd be guessing at one anyways but it makes you think.  So much potential but a head case vs possibly old and washed up.

[HappyDays]

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:24 PM, SWATeam said:

I feel like many are just stuck on results.  

 

We lost two coin flip games vs. KC which easily could have went the other way.  Say we close out that 13 seconds and Josh hits Shakir for that score.  In those scenarios we would have won 5 straight vs. KC.  Would everything then be OK and KC would be the ones with a process that doesn't work?

Expand  

 

Yes if the result was different the result would be different.

 

If Butker doesn't leave 4 points on the board in the 2022 divisional game we don't even have a chance to take the lead at the end.

 

If Hardman doesn't fumble the ball through the endzone in this year's divisional game, the game is over right then and we're all talking about nothing but the stupid decision to run Hamlin on the fake punt.

 

We can go around and around on this stuff. The result is the result.

 

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:30 PM, Maine-iac said:

Who do you think has a better year this year, Chase Claypool or OBJ? 

Expand  

 

Hmm

 

Edited May 15, 2024 by HappyDays

[FireChans]

  On 5/15/2024 at 7:27 PM, Maine-iac said:

yes and yes

 

 

Expand  

Fair enough. I disagree. I think the defensive investments haven’t been good enough and I think the offensive investments haven’t been enough.