Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know it will be a successful offense just because we have Allen. Extremely likely to be top 10, likely top 5ish even no matter what. But I want top 2. That's what this team needs to win a championship. I'm not convinced we have added enough talent to have a top 2 offense. If you disagree that's fine. Everybody seems to agree we need several players to step up big time for us to hit that standard.

 

The Bills need an elite defense more than an elite offense to win a championship.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You didn't answer my question: which Day 3 WR looks likely to play somewhat like Nakua?  The Bills need a speedy outside WR for 2024, not a kid who will probably take at least a season to develop -- if he ever does. 

 

They added a speedy outside veteran WR in MVS who has shown he can be clutch in the playoffs, something that Diggs and Davis haven't shown in a while.

 

 

You aren't discussing the Bills, you are simply venting your anger -- ad nauseum -- that the Bills didn't do what you wanted them to do in the draft.  There's absolutely nothing you can do about the Bills personnel decisions, so move on, dude.

I’m definitely discussing the Bills lol. 
 

Nacua is a good example of a guy that a team gets randomly lucky on. Same with ASB.
 

You know what teams don’t get randomly lucky about a 4th round WR? 
 

The ones that don’t draft them

[Chaos]

I think the title of this thread should be updated to :

Is it time to worry about Marquez Valdes-Scantling ?

[MasterStrategist]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Sure but that's obviously not going to happen. This is where people lose me with the comparison to the Chiefs last year. Our defense is not going to hold down the Ravens and then the 49ers in the playoffs while our offense sputters. The history under this staff is what it is. Our defense underperforms every single year in the playoffs. I'm betting on that trend continuing. With that in mind, the only way we are going to win a championship is to go all out creating an offensive juggernaut capable of steamrolling teams. As I've been saying we need a lot of best case scenarios to come to fruition for that caliber of offensive output.

 

Maybe we're not as far apart in this conversation as you think. I don't expect our offense to suck. I know it will automatically be in the top 5 to top 10 range because of our QB. I just don't think that's good enough under current management.

I agree we aren't far apart in this discussion.

 

Key difference, I think our offense is sufficient (with replacements we've made/Brady taking over with his system).  Going to be a short/intermediate attack with occasional deep shots and a solid run game.  Bigger/more reliable targets in RZ too. I think we can expect an improved RZ efficiency. And to be honest, that's the biggest difference between a 5-10 offense and a top ranked group.  Leaving too many points on the field.

 

The other main difference is "defense expectations".  We've had too many key injuries, in 2021-2023, to overcome.  I think if we can be more healthy, which is luck for any team each year, that's the first hurdle.  McD defense overachieved vs KC playoff game, believe it or not.  Can't run his scheme with 5th string LBs, a lame Von, and a beat up secondary.

 

S/T has also been a bottom performing unit, finding a way to blunder 2 of our last 3 playoff games.  

 

We have a lot of areas to "clean up".  But we have the personell and coaching necessary, stay healthy and not choke basically

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

wait  , is that bad ?

Depends on the quality of the kibble. Maybe this is why Beans was looking for draft picks with “that dog” in them?

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills need an elite defense more than an elite offense to win a championship.

We already have an elite offense in the playoffs, all we really need is an average defense tbh

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

And the defense is missing several key players every year in the playoffs. Not 1 or 2 or 3 players on d.  3,4,5 key players/investments. 
 

what was McD supposed to do last year when every DE got shut down by the KC OL?  When AJ Klein is out there in coverage vs Kelce playing 98% of the snaps because the teams 3 original LBs were out with injury. When Douglas was out there on one ankle while Benford and Tre were already out?  Leonard floyd gets injured (38% snaps), miller injured and useless. 
 

we held top 5 O Miami to 20 and 14 points.  We held KC to 17.  We the top scoring offense in Dallas to 10.  We CAN.  I maintain that we just need to be relatively healthy, game plan better and execute. We don’t NEED a top 2 offense to win a SB.  Sorry, I just don’t think that’s the reality. 

 

 

The consistent defensive struggles in the playoffs haven't been due to injuries each year.

 

Nor has it always been 3, 4, 5 key players that they were missing.

 

The common theme is the HC.   His defense's just haven't confused or slowed down opponents in the playoffs.

 

7 of their 10 Allen-era playoff games were marked by very poor defense.   

[SoonerBillsFan]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, but I was assuming that all four of them had their BEST seasons.   It's not likely that all four will do that.   In their BEST seasons, collectively, they saw a lot more targets than they will see this season.  

 

Someone has to get 1200 or more yards, which means someone is going to have to have what, for him, will be a career year. 

The good news is,pretty much every WR we have brought in had career years with Allen as QB😁

[BananaB]

People asking who is MVS gonna  take snaps from really gotta look back at last year. This staff had Hardy and Shitfield infront of Shakir. Why? Because those guys had more experience. What do you think is gonna happen to Coleman with MVS around? Staff seems clueless at times with the decisions they make based on practice reps. Kline over Williams in the playoffs. Peterman over Allen at one point. Peterman over anybody is really funny. I’m sure the ball boy could have done a better job. McKenzie was struggling and they wouldn’t give Shakir more snaps a couple years ago. Just so many brain dead mistakes

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The consistent defensive struggles in the playoffs haven't been due to injuries each year.

 

Nor has it always been 3, 4, 5 key players that they were missing.

 

The common theme is the HC.   His defense's just haven't confused or slowed down opponents in the playoffs.

 

7 of their 10 Allen-era playoff games were marked by very poor defense.   

Defense has been a combination of coaching, players, and injury. The players just don’t make plays when they are in position to make plays. Especially vs Mahomes.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

People asking who is MVS gonna  take snaps from really gotta look back at last year. This staff had Hardy and Shitfield infront of Shakir. Why? Because those guys had more experience. What do you think is gonna happen to Coleman with MVS around? Staff seems clueless at times with the decisions they make based on practice reps. Kline over Williams in the playoffs. Peterman over Allen at one point. Peterman over anybody is really funny. I’m sure the ball boy could have done a better job. McKenzie was struggling and they wouldn’t give Shakir more snaps a couple years ago. Just so many brain dead mistakes

McDermott came out and said these guys are going to need to have greater roles than in the past.  Beane all but said Coleman starts.

 

You can tell there has been a change at OBD.  How it works out...who knows 

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Maybe. I’ve always figured that where there’s a checkbook, there’s a way. 

As has been stated throughout these boards, the Bills not only lack a true #1, they lack a one-two punch at wide receiver. But they do have one of the best one-two punches at TE in the league. Not only fans, but Beane, and McDermott, themselves, have talked about the expectations of 12 personnel this season…. And you think they want to move on from that???

[muppy]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If we get a motivated, mature, committed Chase Claypool...then watch out.  Im not gonna hold my breath, but the upside with him is sky high if he gets his act together in Buffalo.  

Bring him back to his illustrious "mapletron" moniker self right? He was very fun to watch at Notre Dame too.

 

Past laurels mean basically squat. He needs to show up and prove himself if he wants that NFL paycheck. Come on man! Don't blow this. You'd be playing with Josh freaking Allen. Get yer **** together!

Edited May 14 by muppy

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Defense has been a combination of coaching, players, and injury. The players just don’t make plays when they are in position to make plays. Especially vs Mahomes.

 

True,  but opposing fans say the same thing about losing to Allen.    It's hard to make plays against a great QB.    When you are in position against them.......they often get away.  Sometimes you just have to contain them.......as the old saying goes.

 

For all the talk about how the Bills don't get to Mahomes..........the Chiefs don't get to Allen either.    And yet, they were still able to force Allen to play small ball for 37 minutes in the most recent loss while Mahomes was getting like 9 yards per play or some crazy sh!t like that.    There is no excuse for getting rag-dolled like that by an opponent you have seen and prepared for so many times.   They are practically division rivals at this point.

[Hermes]

6 hours ago, folz said:

 

 

I'm fine with the MVS signing (even though he frustrated me with drops when I had him in fantasy when he was still in Green Bay). The more competition this year, the better. And we are at least deeper than we were last year, even if the top isn't as strong. But, I also think we will be a different offense this year under Brady. A more ball-control offense, hence the bigger receivers. I think targets will go Kincaid, Shakir/Samuel, Coleman, RBs, Knox, then the best of the rest (whoever rises to the top of the remaining candidates). So, whoever that is will be fighting for like the 7th target-share position. And we at least have a lot of options there. If Brady can use each guy we keep to his skill set, in a committee-like approach, running the ball at like a 54/46 percentage, I think this offense can still be very potent with Kincaid as your #1/#2 target and Josh at the helm. It's just going to look different...maybe more of an old New England style offense (but one that takes some more risks/shots downfield, etc.). Just my guess/opinion at the moment. So, I'm not complaining about adding more competition.

 

 

However, I really wanted to address the quotes above. On paper, losing Diggs and Davis looks pretty bad. But, neither were consistently clutch in the playoffs and they definitely weren't helping us get over that divisional round hump. [I still like both players and am happy they were Bills, but it probably was time for a change.]

 

Diggs' playoff numbers:

 

Over his total playoff career (14 games with Minnesota and Buffalo), Stefon has averaged 5 receptions for 65 yards and 0.29 TDs per playoff game.

 

Over his Bills playoff career (9 games), Stefon averaged almost the same: 5 receptions for 67 yards and 0.22 TDs/playoff game

 

Stefon did really well in the 2020 playoffs, averaging 7 receptions for 104 yards and 0.66 TDs per playoff game that season (3 games total).

 

However, over the last three seasons (2021-2023; 6 playoff games), Stefon only averaged 4.5 receptions for 48 yards and 0 TDs/playoff game, with a 58.9% catch percentage and a 41.1% success percentage. Those numbers are not great...and that was our #1 WR over 3 years of playoffs.

 

 

Gabe Davis had the really nice playoff game in Indy his rookie year, then had the monster game in KC in 2021, and an excellent game against Miami in 2022. But, in his other 4 playoff games, he averaged 1 reception for 18.7 yards and 0.25 TDs. And then, of course, he was unavailable for the two playoff games this year (due to injury). Obviously, you can't blame a guy for getting injured, but he only helped in 3 out of the 9 playoff games the Bills had while he was here. 

 

So, of the 18 combined possible playoff games played by Diggs and Davis as Bills (9 each), Stef had 4 good games and Davis had 3 good games (7 out of 18). And actually, three of the games overlap. So, we had 3 of 9 games where they both played well, and then in the other 6 playoff games, they both had bad stats for 5 of the 6, and in the other Diggs did good, but not Davis. We obviously need to do better in the post-season, however Brady and McD think that can be done. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well there in lies the disconnect or disagreement per se.  You are "sold" that Coleman isn't capable of being a WR1.  And while there is nothing wrong with you having that opinion of an unproven player, I think you are not leaving yourself room to be proven wrong either.  As much sold you are that he is nothing more than a WR2, there are others sold he can be an elite WR1.  

 

I get it though, everyone has takes or opinions this time of year, and nothing wrong with that.  But, I would recommend at least leaving room for the concept that Coleman may just be the Alpha you say you would be excited about this group if we had.  He was definitely drafted by guys who scouted him beyond just a highlight tape at FSU to be the Alpha.  But hey, I am not saying you are wrong for your opinion or concerns either, I just think its always, 100% of the time, a mistake to conclusively decide on a rookies future before they have ever stepped on the field.  How many people had St. Brown pegged to be who he is on draft night?  Nobody was talking about Davante Adams, Cooper Kupp, etc etc on the nights they were drafted to be elite top 5 players at points in their careers.  Mr. Irrelevant just started in the Super Bowl and was an MVP candidate in his first full year starting, also only his 2nd year in the league.  

 

The best talent doesn't normally have all the best measurables, that has been proven time in and time again over and over throughout NFL history.  People (saying in general, not sure what your main beef specifically is with him) wanting to write off or significantly cap Coleman's potential because they don't love really one main measurable (his 40 time being the most talked about negative and then translating that to he won't get open) is incredibly premature.  I am all for doubt, concerns, questions, etc...its the conclusive mindset that he "can't" be something before he has stepped on the field that I will never understand...same goes for anyone who conclusively decided he will be a stud as that is just as premature too.  

 

Lastly...this whole statement I bolded above is wild to me, and honestly, its a "fools gold" type answer, meaning it leads to a false positive answer.  First off, ranking the WR group is an absolutely meaningless exercise and really has no realistic way to predictive of on field results.  No disrespect, but this notion that the only way to rank or build a WR group is on sheer talent is not at all accurate.  I get the mindset, but it leads to a false predictive conclusion of expected results.  A bottom tier WR group is currently the back to back SB champions.  In all 7 of Brady's SB wins he had a mediocre or bottom tier group of WR's and the ones he lost he had his best set of WR's in his career.  All kinds of teams besides Chiefs and Patriots had mediocre to bad WR groups who won the SB even in the passing era of the NFL like Philly, Seattle, Ravens, Giants, etc.  

 

What makes a group good or not is not the individual accolades, its the fit within the team, the offense, as a core, etc.  Not many teams who won the SB in the past 20 years had a truly dominant Alpha WR.  Its not about having a WR that puts up over 1500 yards...in fact, go check the NFL SB winners and count how many teams had that kind of WR on their roster when they won the SB.  

 

You want to win in the postseason then you better win in the trenches and you better move the chains.  Its not rocket science, and there are many ways to move the chains.  Some do it with a dominant run game...some do it with spreading the ball around with a balanced attack...some do it with an all out air attack to an Alpha WR.  You know which of those happens more?  The teams who SPREAD the ball around with a balanced offense.  Go count how many SB winners won in an all out air attack to a Alpha WR.  Go count how many SB winners won in an all out ground attack.  And then go and look at the box score of the teams who had a balanced offense where they spread the ball around, were able to run the ball, and kept the chains moving controlling the clock and scoring points.  Its overwhelmingly that category.  

 

So while I get until we see the product on the field there is warranted doubt, concerns, questions, etc...this whole we are "doomed" mentailty doesn't actually add up to SB championship results.  We have literally have the #1 WR in efficiency and catch rate from 2023 just now coming into his own, we have the 2nd leading TE in efficiency and catch rate as a rookie in Kincaid, we just added a 4.3 guy in Samuel who has never had a real QB and had his best seasons under Brady, and we have a promising rookie how at the very least is a MUCH NEEDED redzone TD machine.  And thats with arguably the 2nd best QB in the league, and some other quality depth behind them and a run game that was quite good last year and might be even better this year.  

 

Meanwhile, the best WR's of the last 20 years mostly are without a SB ring.  None for Adams, Hopkins, Megatron, Julio, Jefferson, Chase, Diggs, etc, etc.  Would it be great to also have a WR like one of those guys...sure...but history has shown its not even remotely close to "necessary", especially to the degree some of you have bene making it out to be.

 

I don't say all this to smite you, I say all this to maybe help talk you off your ledge abit because you have been abnormally angry and over the top about this subject for awhile.  And I think its fair to be concerned until we see what happens, but there is also more possibility and more hope here than you realize.  

 

Personally...I think Josh Allen is about to have his best career season yet.  And there is no one who will be running out there on that field the DC can ignore, including Cook and Davis out of the back field.   

It's post like these that really take the boards to the next level. The thought and analysis are top notch and even if the conclusion was 'not so positive' there's so much to unpack that it makes for a good read even as a one off post!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

True,  but opposing fans say the same thing about losing to Allen.    It's hard to make plays against a great QB.    When you are in position against them.......they often get away.  Sometimes you just have to contain them.......as the old saying goes.

 

For all the talk about how the Bills don't get to Mahomes..........the Chiefs don't get to Allen either.    And yet, they were still able to force Allen to play small ball for 37 minutes in the most recent loss while Mahomes was getting like 9 yards per play or some crazy sh!t like that.    There is no excuse for getting rag-dolled like that by an opponent you have seen and prepared for so many times.   They are practically division rivals at this point.

Chris Jones has definitely made plays vs Allen, game changing plays. We just haven’t had anyone step up.

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The consistent defensive struggles in the playoffs haven't been due to injuries each year.

 

Nor has it always been 3, 4, 5 key players that they were missing.

 

The common theme is the HC.   His defense's just haven't confused or slowed down opponents in the playoffs.

 

7 of their 10 Allen-era playoff games were marked by very poor defense.   

At what point do you actually point the finger at players?

 

2019: Neal drops an easy pick in Hou territory.  Neal later misses a huge sack, we had Watson with 2 guys in backfield

 

2020: Colts was a bad defensive effort.  Players/coaches alike.  Ravens, I thought we had a good gameplan.  Chiefs, another ok gameplan but our front 4 got totally manhandled

 

2021: dominate Pats.  Missing our best player/all pro Tre killed us against a lethal offense.  Our pass rush never showed up, Edmunds looked lost on the field.  Milano/Levi blow a coverage during "13 seconds", allowing Kelce to get into FG range

 

2022: Cincys backup IOL just flat out bullied our DTs.  3-4 key injuries (Daquan, Hyde, Poyer, Tre hobbled).  Frazier scheme played scared too

 

2023: Played Steelers well.  Again DL folded, when we needed them to step up.  4-5 key injuries, Benford, Lame Rasul, Bernard, Milano, Daquan/Von still battling at far less than 100%

 

So yeah.  Our DL has choked against KC, Cincy, KC again.  Too many injuries in 2023 especially, can't stop a Mahomes led offense with the MASH unit we fielded.

 

Coach isn't the reason IMO.  If you think we are going to somehow create confusion and blitz Mahomes/etc, nobody wins that way. They have success bc their front 4 causes enough disruption and have a solid back 7.  Our front 4 has got blown off the ball by the wind it seems, past few playoff losses

[NeverOutNick]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We already have an elite offense in the playoffs, all we really need is an average defense tbh

We have an elite Josh Allen in the playoffs. Everyone else on the offense has been average at best in the playoffs with a lot of mediocre and sucks mixed in. We can’t depend on an “elite” defense because it’s been 7 years of McD investing in the defense and it never shows up against KC in the playoffs. Josh needs elite weapons. Hopefully Kincaid is that guy and Coleman/Shakir get there soon as well

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

As has been stated throughout these boards, the Bills not only lack a true #1, they lack a one-two punch at wide receiver. But they do have one of the best one-two punches at TE in the league. Not only fans, but Beane, and McDermott, themselves, have talked about the expectations of 12 personnel this season…. And you think they want to move on from that???

What do you expect them to say? “We blew it! Knox is way over paid”? 😂😂

[MasterStrategist]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

True,  but opposing fans say the same thing about losing to Allen.    It's hard to make plays against a great QB.    When you are in position against them.......they often get away.  Sometimes you just have to contain them.......as the old saying goes.

 

For all the talk about how the Bills don't get to Mahomes..........the Chiefs don't get to Allen either.    And yet, they were still able to force Allen to play small ball for 37 minutes in the most recent loss while Mahomes was getting like 9 yards per play or some crazy sh!t like that.    There is no excuse for getting rag-dolled like that by an opponent you have seen and prepared for so many times.   They are practically division rivals at this point.

DL talent has alot to do with that.  Chris Jones is an allpro, probably best DT in football.  Take him out and see if everyone calls Spags a genius