Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[Gunsgoodtime]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's even worse because last year we had this identical discussion about the #2 pass catcher. This year we're talking about the #1 pass catcher. Yet it is the same exact arguments going back and forth even though the debate was already decided last season. It's pretty wild.

3 years going now actually 

[khlax3]

27 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

#1 target of the last 10 Super Bowl participants:

 

Travis Kelce

Brandon Aiyuk

Travis Kelce

AJ Brown

Cooper Kupp

Ja'Marr Chase

Mike Evans

Travis Kelce

Travis Kelce

George Kittle

 

By the way those teams also all had a #2 passing target that was better than anyone on the Bills roster right now. Several of them had a better #3 passing target.

 

That's the caliber of talent we're talking about. Meanwhile on this board we're wondering if Khalil Shakir can be the #1. It's honestly a complete joke.

 

I never expected us to find a #1 caliber pass target right away after trading Diggs. I expected a step back. It is just frustrating that Beane didn't even really try. We added one WR in the draft and then signed a couple low-probability scratch offs in Claypool and Hamler, and the rest has been complementary or depth additions.

 

We have to hope Kincaid is ready to be a #1 pass target. That's probably our best hope. The next best hope is maybe... Claypool? I don't know. It's just not a good situation and we're likely to enter next offseason with the same questions that we entered this offseason with.

 

I am truly curious how you define number 1 wr. Is it tds, yards, targets, catches, position, or some combination of that?

 

If Kincaid has 90 catches is he a number 1?

 

If shakir has 1100 yards does that make him a number 1? 
 

if Coleman has 10 td is he a number 1? What if he has had 75 catches for 950 yards and 8 tds this year. Do you consider him a number 1 going into next year?

[wettlaufer]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Was he a dropper in GB? Or is this just based on a couple drops in KC during prime time games? 

There was 1 game this year that was the reason we lost which was the Jets game. What other games can you think of since 2020? 
 

Also has Mahomes ever been the reason KC lost? Or did the rest of the team step up to save his butt? Like let’s say against the Jets this year. 

 

Uh, the divisional round we lost, when WR 1 dropped a bomb that went right through his hands.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You’re wasting your time. The folks around here who don’t follow the rest of the league are the same ones who think Kincaid, Cook, Shakir and Samuel are one of the most dangerous weapon groups in the NFL. maybe behind Deebo, Aiyuk,  CMC, Kittle.

Hysterical exaggerations only weaken your position

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

It was actually the D that has let us down the past 3 years in the big games.

Last year, yes, our WR's had drops at crucial times against KC, however, it was Special Teams, aka "the ole bass-o-matic" that lost the game for us. And also, our D couldn't stop Mahomo all game long, allowing him to score at will.

 

So, wherever you're getting this WR narrative losing the games in the playoffs is way beyond me.

 

 

 

 

Average, at best

 

Here's why people have this view:

 

WR is the one position these past few years where we have under-invested.  And in the past two years, it was an evident problem down the stretch and into the playoffs. 

 

Yes, the Defense continually lets us down when it matters.  But I don't even know what to say anymore.  They unclutchness of some of these players, the injuries we keep sustaining to major pieces.. ok, what do we do?  Because we continually invest heavily on Defense.  They simply need to be healthier and step up.  

 

On Offense, we can at least point to a fundamental team building flaw that has been evident in the postseason.  And sure, our Defense got shredded by Mahomes (shocker) but Josh Allen still put us in position to beat them with his play.  Only to be let down by his WR's, one of which gave up on the season around Week 10 and the other who had zero business being out there in that game.

[RobbRiddick]

17 hours ago, appoo said:

 

Game recognizes game in this case. Can't believe that nimrod in NY couldn't make use of him

Cool highlight video

[Buffalo_Stampede]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Samuel isn't going to break out in his 8th season. I do expect him to be a great addition to the team though as an explosive complementary piece. Shakir is a slot, I'm still firm in that opinion until proven otherwise. Maybe he develops into Cooper Kupp but I don't see it. Kincaid I agree has a decent chance of really breaking out this year.

 

But that's my point. We have to hope for a breakout. All of the players I listed were already known to be top tier pass catching talents entering those Super Bowl seasons. Maybe Aiyuk wasn't quite at that proven level yet, but he was in a mix with Samuel, Kittle, and McCaffrey so offensive weapons were not remotely a concern for the 49ers.

 

My whole thing this offseason was I wanted two young WRs with physical traits added in the draft. Double the chance that you hit the jackpot, and then even if there's no breakout this year at least we enter 2025 with a lot of young talent that's developed chemistry with Allen and the probability of a breakout in 2025 goes way up. That would have made 2024 a fun transition year even if the team as a whole took a step back. Instead we're kind of just treading water, at best.

 

WR1’s become WR1’s with opportunity. Same as WR2’s and WR3’s.

 

Yes there’s projections but opportunity is what creates a WR1. Not a draft profile.

These players will get targets, let’s see what they do with their opportunity. I’ve seen many different levels of WR become a number 1 target because they got the opportunity.

Edited May 14 by Buffalo_Stampede

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Hysterical exaggerations only weaken your position

It’s not hysterical. That group being one of the most dangerous in the NFL is a direct quote lmao.

[wettlaufer]

17 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Diggs not being Diggs at the end of last year is as much Brady as anyone else. He also consistently drew the best CBs or double teams, leaving options open for Shakir and others.  Despite that all he still had over 100 catches and 1100 yds, only 3rd most catches in a season by a Bills WR ever. We will miss him.

 

We needed an upgrade from Davis, but it ain't MVS

Stef's splits for 2023-2024 were garbage. He did nothing down the stretch, contributed squat when it mattered, and was a non-factor in most Bills playoff games. Plus he was an a-hole teammate. Goodbye, under-achieving diva.

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

19 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm not gonna make a separate post on this topic, because everyone will get all up in arms and accuse me of making a LAMP, and it'll do more harm than good, but...

I'm genuinely curious: If trying as hard as possible to be objective and unbiased, where would each fan on this message board rank our WR corps compared to the rest of the league?

Maybe you could even give it two scores, one for where it appears to be now (on paper), and one for the potential of what you think it could become.

But either way, I'd really love to know that answer. Cutting away all of the rest of the discussion, I'm just curious where everyone would rank our WR unit. I genuinely want to know.

Not a ranking per se, but I think the Bills group of pass catchers is at least as good as the group of pass catchers for: NE*, PIT, DEN, LAC, NYG, WAS, NO, ARI, ATL. (A few of these are based on rookies being unknowns.)

 

I think these teams have just a slight edge over the Bills: BAL, GB, DAL, CAR, LV. 

All others I think are a significant step above. 

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

What’s funny is that MVS had basically his career average his first year starting.

I’d take my chances on a fourth or fifth round WR contributing this year over Ray Davis. That’s just me though. 

 

 

Well, of course you're willing to "take your chances" on a fourth or fifth round WR since your livelihood isn't dependent upon making smart choices.   What WR taken in the fourth or fifth round of this year's draft is likely to be another Puka Nakua?

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, khlax3 said:

Is it tds, yards, targets, catches, position, or some combination of that?

 

For that exercise I just went with targets, but I am sure if you changed it to catches or yards the result would be the same.

[MasterStrategist]

32 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

#1 target of the last 10 Super Bowl participants:

 

Travis Kelce

Brandon Aiyuk

Travis Kelce

AJ Brown

Cooper Kupp

Ja'Marr Chase

Mike Evans

Travis Kelce

Travis Kelce

George Kittle

 

By the way those teams also all had a #2 passing target that was better than anyone on the Bills roster right now. Several of them had a better #3 passing target.

 

That's the caliber of talent we're talking about. Meanwhile on this board we're wondering if Khalil Shakir can be the #1. It's honestly a complete joke.

 

I never expected us to find a #1 caliber pass target right away after trading Diggs. I expected a step back. It is just frustrating that Beane didn't even really try. We added one WR in the draft and then signed a couple low-probability scratch offs in Claypool and Hamler, and the rest has been complementary or depth additions.

 

We have to hope Kincaid is ready to be a #1 pass target. That's probably our best hope. The next best hope is maybe... Claypool? I don't know. It's just not a good situation and we're likely to enter next offseason with the same questions that we entered this offseason with.

 

To me, this is a lazy take.  But JMO.

 

Take for example GB, they had the 49ers beat in the playoffs LY.  No #1, a bunch of similar type guys to what we have now.  

 

We haven't seen a Joe Brady led scheme, in Buffalo yet.  It's like saying Daboll was who he was before arriving, so expect said past results.  Brady has been around Josh, and this team, seen has worked and hasn't.

 

Brady called a fantastic gameplan against KC.  I'm very confident with a full offseason of implementing his own designs, that we will have better offensive rhythm/consistency this year.  Especially when it comes to turnover and redzone efficiency.

 

As for WR/overall receiving talent, we might not have a single star player, but collectively alot of talent.  Especially attacking the short/intermediate areas of the field.  Solid run game and efficient passing/YAC is a surefire way to move the ball.

 

I was concerned with having any outside/downfield threats prior to the draft.  Now we have a promising rookie in Coleman and a proven vet in MVS, then some wildcards in Claypool/Hamler/Shorter/Shavers fighting for #6.

 

Defending our offense isn't going to be as simple as roll a safety over Davis, which basically took him out of games.  Bracket Diggs.

 

This team is counting on Kincaid and Shakir to take another step.  Doesn't have to be a huge step, as you pointed out earlier.  Samuel is going to get his 700-800+ yards, Coleman's skill set will transition to the NFL fairly quickly.

 

We have a lot of complementary weapons, but the key thing is versatility.  Maybe not all are downfield threats, but covering the underneath zones is going to be much more challenging for teams this year.  Especially with what I expect to be a better running game, and more use of Cook/Davis in the passing game as well.

 

Let things play out...way too much pessimism right now, even for TBD standards

[Mrbojanglezs]

4 hours ago, wppete said:

Are we going with 7 WRs next year?

 

1. Coleman

2. Shakir

3. Samuel

4. MVS

5. Claypool

6. Hollins

7. Hamler

 

With the new kickoff rules having receivers that can shed blocks quickly and make a tackle will be valuable 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Not a ranking per se, but I think the Bills group of pass catchers is at least as good as the group of pass catchers for: NE*, PIT, DEN, LAC, NYG, WAS, NO, ARI, ATL. (A few of these are based on rookies being unknowns.)

 

I think these teams have just a slight edge over the Bills: BAL, GB, DAL, CAR, LV. 

All others I think are a significant step above. 

Imo all these are pretty easily better than Bills pass catchers except maybe Chargers and broncos 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Well, of course you're willing to "take your chances" on a fourth or fifth round WR since your livelihood isn't dependent upon making smart choices.   What WR taken in the fourth or fifth round of this year's draft is likely to be another Puka Nakua?

What?

 

They don’t need to be Puka Nacua or ASB. It would be nice if they were a Khalil Shakir. Or an MVS. 

Is Ray Davis gonna be the next elite RB? Is he gonna get another contract with the Bills at 29 years old?

[sunshynman]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Double dip at WR in the draft was the obvious move. Signing the more talented OBJ for almost the same money we are getting MVS for. Don't act like there weren't other options.

OBJ signed for more. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I’d rather have several good guys vs. 1 great guy 

Really? I find that odd, but not as odd as the false binary you offered. It’s actually possible to have one great player AND several good players. Good WRs aren’t that difficult to find, but difference making WRs are. That’s because they’re rare and very valuable. One of their valuable impacts is that they can elevate the players around them. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What?

 

They don’t need to be Puka Nacua or ASB. It would be nice if they were a Khalil Shakir. Or an MVS. 

Is Ray Davis gonna be the next elite RB? Is he gonna get another contract with the Bills at 29 years old?

 

Judging by Embedded, if we didn't go Ray Davis, it was going to be Van Pran-Granger, who we got a round later.  

 

I'm not in love with spending a 4th on a RB.  That said.. I do think Brady's Offense likes having good receivers as backs.  When Cook comes out and Davis goes in, we might not have the down field WR routes that Cook can run, but Davis is an above average receiving back, so we still can operate the same offense regardless of who's in the game. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Apologies if already posted upthread, but has the $$ been announced yet?