Marquez Valdes-Scantling meeting with the Bills (UPDATE: Signed)

[Mat68]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

I don't think that at all, nor did I state as much.

What depresses me about this group is that -- in my opinion -- they installed two fairly unimpressive guys as presumptive WR1 and WR2 (I was not a fan of Coleman as a prospect and I think Curtis Samuel is just fine, but no better than fine), then proceeded to sign only WR4-WR9 types who DON'T have a chance of overtaking the top guys. Like...that's the problem in a nutshell to me. The depth of the group is fine, but there's not much quality to it, particularly at the top.

To be honest, I actually think it would be a fairly high quality WR depth chart if a number one receiver was added to it. In other words, I think Coleman can be a good #2, Shakir a quality slot (which he'll be anyway), Samuel a great #4, etc. If it just had an alpha WR at the top, then I'd be fine with the rest of it. But it doesn't. It looks like a nice supporting cast for a #1 guy, but the Bills don't have a #1 guy.

At the end of the day, the WR group just looks subpar to me. I've run out of different ways to explain why that is, but it continues to be my feeling. I'm normally the most optimistic, rose colored glasses wearing Bills fan you'll ever meet, but I don't like the way they've gone about the WR position this offseason.

I think that anyone who is being fair and rational, if they're really being honest with themselves, would have to admit that this Bills WR group looks to be no better than, say, 25th in the league. I count about 5-7 teams that are similar or worse at WR, but that's it. Do you disagree? Do you think it looks any better than the 25th best group in the league?

To me, having a bottom third WR group is simply unacceptable when you have Josh Allen in his prime.

When you compare it to Baltimore and KC it is fine.  Kincaid needs to improve and will be the primary pass catcher.  Then you have Shakir and Sanders with Coleman growing into the role.  More he can do the more he will get.  MVS, Hollins, Claypool, Hamler or whatever camp body you want to add will make up the bottom of the room.  MVS and Hollins made a career out of this role in a wr room.  Like most positions on the roster under Beane.  Hollins and MVS are the floor.  If any of the boom or bust guys boom they replace either.  
 

This is not Zay Jones, Andre Holmes, Kelvin Benjamin and Charles Clay bad.  Very much NO Saints Prime Brees vibes.  Kincaid in the Colston/Graham role.  Coleman can frequent the Michael Thomas role at times.  James Cook getting an expanded role in the passing game like Bush and Kamara.  Now where in the NFL did Brady get his coaching start?  New Orleans under Sean Payton. 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

#1 target of the last 10 Super Bowl participants:

 

Travis Kelce

Brandon Aiyuk

Travis Kelce

AJ Brown

Cooper Kupp

Ja'Marr Chase

Mike Evans

Travis Kelce

Travis Kelce

George Kittle

 

By the way those teams also all had a #2 passing target that was better than anyone on the Bills roster right now. Several of them had a better #3 passing target.

 

That's the caliber of talent we're talking about. Meanwhile on this board we're wondering if Khalil Shakir can be the #1. It's honestly a complete joke.

 

I never expected us to find a #1 caliber pass target right away after trading Diggs. I expected a step back. It is just frustrating that Beane didn't even really try. We added one WR in the draft and then signed a couple low-probability scratch offs in Claypool and Hamler, and the rest has been complementary or depth additions.

 

We have to hope Kincaid is ready to be a #1 pass target. That's probably our best hope. The next best hope is maybe... Claypool? I don't know. It's just not a good situation and we're likely to enter next offseason with the same questions that we entered this offseason with.

 

We literally just did this last off-season

 

To entirely predictable results I might add

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

#1 target of the last 10 Super Bowl participants:

 

Travis Kelce

Brandon Aiyuk

Travis Kelce

AJ Brown

Cooper Kupp

Ja'Marr Chase

Mike Evans

Travis Kelce

Travis Kelce

George Kittle

 

By the way those teams also all had #2 passing targets that were better than anyone on the Bills roster right now.

 

That's the caliber of talent we're talking about. Meanwhile on this board we're wondering if Khalil Shakir can be the #1. It's honestly a complete joke.

 

I never expected us to find a #1 caliber pass target right away after trading Diggs. I expected a step back. It is just frustrating that Beane didn't even really try. We added one WR in the draft and then signed a couple scratch offs.

 

We have to hope Kincaid is ready to be a #1 pass target. That's probably our best hope. The next best hope is maybe... Claypool? I don't know. It's just not a good situation and we're likely to enter next offseason with the same questions that we entered this offseason with.

 

Besides Chase and Evans, top 10 picks, all of these players developed into that guy. 
 

There is a process. You don’t want the process. You want it now. Shakir, Samuel, and Kincaid all have the ability to break out next year. 
 

 

[HappyDays]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

We literally just did this last off-season

 

It's even worse because last year we had this identical discussion about the #2 pass catcher. This year we're talking about the #1 pass catcher. Yet it is the same exact arguments going back and forth even though the debate was already decided last season. It's pretty wild.

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We literally just did this last off-season

 

To entirely predictable results I might add

 

We've, at least, addressed the depth.  What was completely unacceptable is for two years in a row, having lack of WR depth kill us in the playoffs. 

 

Two years prior we limped into the playoffs and had street FA's taking major snaps. 

 

Last year we lose Gabe and have Trent Sherfield playing major snaps against KC in the Divisional Round.  Absolute JOKE.

 

What I will, most assuredly, find maddening is how we always have money & high picks for DL, while hanging WR out to dry.  And judging by the MVS signing, along with the 55 other random receivers brought in, that 6/1 money is probably going to the DL... because we always have money for that, even though they never show up when it matters. 

 

 

Edited May 14 by SCBills

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Besides Chase and Evans, top 10 picks, all of these players developed into that guy. 
 

There is a process. You don’t want the process. You want it now. Shakir, Samuel, and Kincaid all have the ability to break out next year. 
 

 

Samuel is 7 years into his career.  He broke out in 2018 and hasn't gotten back to that level since.  He is who he is at this point. Maybe he can have a John Brown style career year with Josh given the lack of competition for targets.

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Besides Chase and Evans, top 10 picks, all of these players developed into that guy. 
 

There is a process. You don’t want the process. You want it now. Shakir, Samuel, and Kincaid all have the ability to break out next year. 
 

 

 

Samuel isn't going to break out in his 8th season. I do expect him to be a great addition to the team though as an explosive complementary piece. Shakir is a slot, I'm still firm in that opinion until proven otherwise. Maybe he develops into Cooper Kupp but I don't see it. Kincaid I agree has a decent chance of really breaking out this year.

 

But that's my point. We have to hope for a breakout. All of the players I listed were already known to be top tier pass catching talents entering those Super Bowl seasons. Maybe Aiyuk wasn't quite at that proven level yet, but he was in a mix with Samuel, Kittle, and McCaffrey so offensive weapons were not remotely a concern for the 49ers.

 

My whole thing this offseason was I wanted two young WRs with physical traits added in the draft. Double the chance that you hit the jackpot, and then even if there's no breakout this year at least we enter 2025 with a lot of young talent that's developed chemistry with Allen and the probability of a breakout in 2025 goes way up. That would have made 2024 a fun transition year even if the team as a whole took a step back. Instead we're kind of just treading water, at best.

 

Edited May 14 by HappyDays

[harmonkillebrew]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

Diggs didn’t = Diggs last season or in the playoffs, four total TDs in his post season career, not great for a #1,

 

Davis constantly hobbled by his ankle and then shoulder was a fine wr4 but a failed wr2, he won’t be missed. MVS is actually not a walking injury, fingers crossed 🤞 there, 

 

Hollins is a step upfrom Sherfield, 

 

Coleman is very likely going to be an upgrade to Davis, in which he can catch footballs when they are thrown to him, 😁👍

 

add in Shakir Kincaid Cook and Samual all is not lost, 

Diggs not being Diggs at the end of last year is as much Brady as anyone else. He also consistently drew the best CBs or double teams, leaving options open for Shakir and others.  Despite that all he still had over 100 catches and 1100 yds, only 3rd most catches in a season by a Bills WR ever. We will miss him.

 

We needed an upgrade from Davis, but it ain't MVS

[muppy]

21 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yeah, I get it, Mup.

People aren't used to seeing ol' Logic be pessimistic and do anything other than toe the company line.

One of the big reasons that I have so often appeared optimistic and had a rosy outlook is that I have more often than not agreed with the way Brandon Beane has built this team. I continue to be a fan of his, and I think he's a great GM.

But it would be intellectually dishonest of me to not give voice to my displeasure when I think he's making missteps and not giving Josh Allen the best chance to succeed and, thus, not giving the Buffalo Bills the best chance to succeed.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong, but you can trust that I'm always going to be honest about the way I view things. And this offseason, for the first time in a long time, I feel disappointed in the way Beane has chosen to go about things. I feel less optimistic right now than I did at this time last season, and that's not a nice feeling. Cringe if you must. I shall continue to speak my truth.

Im cringing because you may be Right. **CRINGE**  just so  we're clear  🙂

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We've, at least, addressed the depth.  What was completely unacceptable is for two years in a row, having lack of WR depth kill us in the playoffs. 

 

Two years prior we limped into the playoffs and had street FA's taking major snaps. 

 

Last year we lose Gabe and have Trent Sherfield playing major snaps against KC in the Divisional Round.  Absolute JOKE.

 

What I will, most assuredly, find maddening is how we always have money & high picks for DL, while hanging WR out to dry.  And judging by the MVS signing, along with the 55 other random receivers brought in, that 6/1 money is probably going to the DL... because we always have money for that, even though they never show up when it matters. 

 

 

We have at least addressed the lack of a deep threat with MVS. Its far from the best WR room but with MVS we can challenge all over the field.  Hamler staying healthy or Claypool regaining cognitive function were always low probability events as far as stretching the field.    

[Logic]

I'm not gonna make a separate post on this topic, because everyone will get all up in arms and accuse me of making a LAMP, and it'll do more harm than good, but...

I'm genuinely curious: If trying as hard as possible to be objective and unbiased, where would each fan on this message board rank our WR corps compared to the rest of the league?

Maybe you could even give it two scores, one for where it appears to be now (on paper), and one for the potential of what you think it could become.

But either way, I'd really love to know that answer. Cutting away all of the rest of the discussion, I'm just curious where everyone would rank our WR unit. I genuinely want to know.

[Mat68]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

#1 target of the last 10 Super Bowl participants:

 

Travis Kelce

Brandon Aiyuk

Travis Kelce

AJ Brown

Cooper Kupp

Ja'Marr Chase

Mike Evans

Travis Kelce

Travis Kelce

George Kittle

 

By the way those teams also all had a #2 passing target that was better than anyone on the Bills roster right now. Several of them had a better #3 passing target.

 

That's the caliber of talent we're talking about. Meanwhile on this board we're wondering if Khalil Shakir can be the #1. It's honestly a complete joke.

 

I never expected us to find a #1 caliber pass target right away after trading Diggs. I expected a step back. It is just frustrating that Beane didn't even really try. We added one WR in the draft and then signed a couple low-probability scratch offs in Claypool and Hamler, and the rest has been complementary or depth additions.

 

We have to hope Kincaid is ready to be a #1 pass target. That's probably our best hope. The next best hope is maybe... Claypool? I don't know. It's just not a good situation and we're likely to enter next offseason with the same questions that we entered this offseason with.

 

Rasheed Rice is significantly better than Shakir, Sanders or Coleman?  I dont see it. 

[MikePJ76]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Samuel isn't going to break out in his 8th season. I do expect him to be a great addition to the team though as an explosive complementary piece. Shakir is a slot, I'm still firm in that opinion until proven otherwise. Maybe he develops into Cooper Kupp but I don't see it. Kincaid I agree has a decent chance of really breaking out this year.

 

But that's my point. We have to hope for a breakout. All of the players I listed were already known to be top tier pass catching talents entering those Super Bowl seasons. Maybe Aiyuk wasn't quite at that proven level yet, but he was in a mix with Samuel, Kittle, and McCaffrey so offensive weapons were not remotely a concern for the 49ers.

 

My whole thing this offseason was I wanted two young WRs with physical traits added in the draft. Double the chance that you hit the jackpot, and then even if there's no breakout this year at least we enter 2025 with a lot of young talent that's developed chemistry with Allen and the probability of a breakout in 2025 goes way up. That would have made 2024 a fun transition year even if the team as a whole took a step back. Instead we're kind of just treading water, at best.

 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We've, at least, addressed the depth.  What was completely unacceptable is for two years in a row, having lack of WR depth kill us in the playoffs. 

 

Two years prior we limped into the playoffs and had street FA's taking major snaps. 

 

Last year we lose Gabe and have Trent Sherfield playing major snaps against KC in the Divisional Round.  Absolute JOKE.

 

What I will, most assuredly, find maddening is how we always have money & high picks for DL, while hanging WR out to dry.  And judging by the MVS signing, along with the 55 other random receivers brought in, that 6/1 money is probably going to the DL... because we always have money for that, even though they never show up when it matters. 

 

 

I disagree on depth tbh

 

I think we've actually done the opposite. You add depth at the top of your roster, not the bottom. Asking guys to take on elevated roles and the backfilling their previous positions is diluting the talent pool

 

But overall the wr sentiment is one I share

[balln]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

#1 target of the last 10 Super Bowl participants:

 

Travis Kelce

Brandon Aiyuk

Travis Kelce

AJ Brown

Cooper Kupp

Ja'Marr Chase

Mike Evans

Travis Kelce

Travis Kelce

George Kittle

 

By the way those teams also all had a #2 passing target that was better than anyone on the Bills roster right now. Several of them had a better #3 passing target.

 

That's the caliber of talent we're talking about. Meanwhile on this board we're wondering if Khalil Shakir can be the #1. It's honestly a complete joke.

 

I never expected us to find a #1 caliber pass target right away after trading Diggs. I expected a step back. It is just frustrating that Beane didn't even really try. We added one WR in the draft and then signed a couple low-probability scratch offs in Claypool and Hamler, and the rest has been complementary or depth additions.

 

We have to hope Kincaid is ready to be a #1 pass target. That's probably our best hope. The next best hope is maybe... Claypool? I don't know. It's just not a good situation and we're likely to enter next offseason with the same questions that we entered this offseason with.

 

Yes. It’s scary. But Kincaid has to become close to a kelce. It’s that simple. 

[Sweats]

8 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We've, at least, addressed the depth.  What was completely unacceptable is for two years in a row, having lack of WR depth kill us in the playoffs. 

 

Two years prior we limped into the playoffs and had street FA's taking major snaps. 

 

Last year we lose Gabe and have Trent Sherfield playing major snaps against KC in the Divisional Round.  Absolute JOKE.

 

What I will, most assuredly, find maddening is how we always have money & high picks for DL, while hanging WR out to dry.  And judging by the MVS signing, along with the 55 other random receivers brought in, that 6/1 money is probably going to the DL... because we always have money for that, even though they never show up when it matters. 

 

 

 

 

 

It was actually the D that has let us down the past 3 years in the big games.

Last year, yes, our WR's had drops at crucial times against KC, however, it was Special Teams, aka "the ole bass-o-matic" that lost the game for us. And also, our D couldn't stop Mahomo all game long, allowing him to score at will.

 

So, wherever you're getting this WR narrative losing the games in the playoffs is way beyond me.

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm not gonna make a separate post on this topic, because everyone will get all up in arms and accuse me of making a LAMP, and it'll do more harm than good, but...

I'm genuinely curious: If trying as hard as possible to be objective and unbiased, where would each fan on this message board rank our WR corps compared to the rest of the league?

Maybe you could even give it two scores, one for where it appears to be now (on paper), and one for the potential of what you think it could become.

But either way, I'd really love to know that answer. Cutting away all of the rest of the discussion, I'm just curious where everyone would rank our WR unit. I genuinely want to know.

 

 

 

 

Average, at best

[oldmanfan]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

#1 target of the last 10 Super Bowl participants:

 

Travis Kelce

Brandon Aiyuk

Travis Kelce

AJ Brown

Cooper Kupp

Ja'Marr Chase

Mike Evans

Travis Kelce

Travis Kelce

George Kittle

 

By the way those teams also all had a #2 passing target that was better than anyone on the Bills roster right now. Several of them had a better #3 passing target.

 

That's the caliber of talent we're talking about. Meanwhile on this board we're wondering if Khalil Shakir can be the #1. It's honestly a complete joke.

 

I never expected us to find a #1 caliber pass target right away after trading Diggs. I expected a step back. It is just frustrating that Beane didn't even really try. We added one WR in the draft and then signed a couple low-probability scratch offs in Claypool and Hamler, and the rest has been complementary or depth additions.

 

We have to hope Kincaid is ready to be a #1 pass target. That's probably our best hope. The next best hope is maybe... Claypool? I don't know. It's just not a good situation and we're likely to enter next offseason with the same questions that we entered this offseason with.

 

I fundamentally disagree.  Brady’s offense looks to spread the ball around to open guys.  I think Josh can thrive in that vs. having to worry about feeding a guy like Diggs.

 

If Brady does his job well we have multiple targets plus a better run game.

[DJB]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm not gonna make a separate post on this topic, because everyone will get all up in arms and accuse me of making a LAMP, and it'll do more harm than good, but...

I'm genuinely curious: If trying as hard as possible to be objective and unbiased, where would each fan on this message board rank our WR corps compared to the rest of the league?

Maybe you could even give it two scores, one for where it appears to be now (on paper), and one for the potential of what you think it could become.

But either way, I'd really love to know that answer. Cutting away all of the rest of the discussion, I'm just curious where everyone would rank our WR unit. I genuinely want to know.

Bottom 5 WR group in the league no question 

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm not gonna make a separate post on this topic, because everyone will get all up in arms and accuse me of making a LAMP, and it'll do more harm than good, but...

I'm genuinely curious: If trying as hard as possible to be objective and unbiased, where would each fan on this message board rank our WR corps compared to the rest of the league?

Maybe you could even give it two scores, one for where it appears to be now (on paper), and one for the potential of what you think it could become.

But either way, I'd really love to know that answer. Cutting away all of the rest of the discussion, I'm just curious where everyone would rank our WR unit. I genuinely want to know.

You’re wasting your time. The folks around here who don’t follow the rest of the league are the same ones who think Kincaid, Cook, Shakir and Samuel are one of the most dangerous weapon groups in the NFL. maybe behind Deebo, Aiyuk,  CMC, Kittle.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Samuel isn't going to break out in his 8th season. I do expect him to be a great addition to the team though as an explosive complementary piece. Shakir is a slot, I'm still firm in that opinion until proven otherwise. Maybe he develops into Cooper Kupp but I don't see it. Kincaid I agree has a decent chance of really breaking out this year.

 

But that's my point. We have to hope for a breakout. All of the players I listed were already known to be top tier pass catching talents entering those Super Bowl seasons. Maybe Aiyuk wasn't quite at that proven level yet, but he was in a mix with Samuel, Kittle, and McCaffrey so offensive weapons were not remotely a concern for the 49ers.

 

My whole thing this offseason was I wanted two young WRs with physical traits added in the draft. Double the chance that you hit the jackpot, and then even if there's no breakout this year at least we enter 2025 with a lot of young talent that's developed chemistry with Allen and the probability of a breakout in 2025 goes way up. That would have been a fun transition year even if the team as a whole took a step back. Instead we're kind of just treading water, at best.

 

Coleman, Shakir and Samuel are likely all here for .. at least .. this season and next.  

 

If MVS works out, they'll likely bring him back.  

 

I do get them wanting to see if Coleman can the WR1 and Shakir can be a top tier Slot.  It's risky though.. and you only get so many prime years of a Josh Allen.  

 

Aiyuk seems like such a perfect fit for this team, but we can't force SF to trade him to us and I don't know that I see Beane pulling the trigger on a trade on a guy who's already 30/pushing 30 given how they may not be long term options and would likely hinder them seeing what Coleman's true potential is. 

 

Not saying I agree with it, but trying to look at this from the Bills POV.  

 

And I tend to think we're done at WR now.  We seem set 1-5 (right or wrong) and you don't bring in all these guys to compete for a spot/spots if they don't exist.  Trading for an Aiyuk, Lockett, DK, Hopkins etc slides everyone down a spot and maybe puts Hollins into a camp battle with everyone, but the way Beane talks about him, he sounds like a lock.