WR trade candidates, who do you want?

[warrior9]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

17 was our QB last season and we had better WRs.  

 

What is the value of "youth" for it's own sake here?

We did not have better WR's .... Gabe and Diggs were non-existent last year down the stretch. Our three best receivers (cook is one) down that stretch are back, are rookies to 3 years in the NFL.. you don't see the value in that? 

 

Do you seriously not understand the value of a 22 y/o, young TE that is budding, and a receiving threat that is 23/24? If not, I can't help you..

Edited May 14 by warrior9

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I meant to respond to your other post on my FA WR thread and forgot. So I'll just do it here.

 

Your list is 95% made up of guys we either won't be able to afford, will require an amount of compensation in picks and money that I don't see Beane doing at this stage in the Offseason, and/or won't be being traded.

 

For the millionth time, Moore isn't going anywhere. They gave up a fair amount to get him just a season ago and he's produced. Allen works predominantly out of the Slot. They'll have Moore and Odunze on the Outside with Allen in the slot, Allen working in on the Outside when either needs to sub out. They don't really have anything underneath those 3 guys. They knew what they were doing acquiring all 3 over the past two seasons. 

 

Hopkins is the most likely to be acquired from a financial standpoint. But like the Bears and Moore, I don't see them moving him for many of the same reasons. They acquired him just last year when Burks underachieved expectations. They hoped with Hopkins on the other side, he'd take a step forward. Instead, he took a step backwards. Realizing they're nowhere with Burks, they signed Ridley to remove him from the signing lineup. The addition of Boyd does nothing to alter Ridley and Hopkins on the Outside. He's a PURE Slot. They'll have Ridley and Hopkins on the Outside and Boyd Inside. I see no way they're going to move out Hopkins and put Burks back in the Starting Lineup, following last season. If they move anyone, it would be Burks.

 

 

You're ignoring expenses we have that are unavoidable.

 

Counting what we have left and the money that's coming from Tre - we'll have about 12. But half or more of that is going to go to paying for our Draft Picks, paying for the Practice Squad, and a little left for in season spending.

 

You keep mentioning restructuring Josh for a second time in the same offseason. I don't see that happening. He's never restructured someone twice in the same offseason. I'm not sure why he chose to not restructure the full amount he could, but there was a reason for it. If he was going to squeeze more out of his deal for this offseason, he'd have done it then.

 

As for other cap saving measures, we've done literally all we could do in terms of potential releases, extension, and restructures already. Save for just two possibilities. A restructure to Oliver and a restructure to Milano. Those moves won't be nearly enough to take on most of your list and pay for the unavoidable expenses we have.

 

This is why I was looking at the FA market. I agree we could use someone bigger from your list. But I don't see us being able to pull it off and more importantly, I don't see Beane doing what it would take in giving up premium Draft Picks, restructuring deals he's already done this offseason, AND paying someone a massive long term deal at the numbers they're being done for this year.

 

If we are to make a move, at all, I see it either being a Free Agent or someone more like this on a trade that would require far less to pull off:

 

In regards to your last reply to me on the other thread, identifying that it's unlikely to practically impossible to acquire a major target doesn't mean I don't think we need it. Nor does saying it's that or nothing make it more likely to happen or that other options couldn't provide an upgrade from what we have on the Outside to start the season.

I get it, you don't think DJ Moore is a possibility.  I did put him in the dark horse category.  But if McD/Beane liked him from their Car days and offer up a 1st you never know.  And when Chic traded for Moore they didn't know they would draft Rome.

 

I don't think you understand how they can play with the salary once they get the player.  

For instance suppose they trade for Metcalf.  He has a $13M salary.  Right after they get him (really part of the negotiation of the trade) they extend him, give him a signing bonus with guarantees and reduce his 2024 salary to something small that the FO wants it to be, lets say $5M.  Then the net affect is they got the $10M Tre money + $3+ earlier, got Metcalf renegotiated and then come out with $8M for the safety (Hyde) and rest of season.

 

As for DHop, you may think Tenn wants to move Burks, but no one wants him.  Tenn added Ridley and Boyd.  Dhop is on his last year of his contract, moving him for some draft capital would have to be mighty tempting.  DHop shows an $8M salary which is great value.  May have to throw a 2nd to get that.

 

D Adams is surprisingly not getting much love here.  D Adams carries a $44M salary for the Raiders next year so he should be available.  He has a $16M salary that they would need to briefly accounted for, then restructure with the extensions, signing bonus, guarantee manipulations. 

 

The point is to get someone in here that has the expected value of at least what we lost in Diggs.  DK Metcalf/D Adams/D Hopkins meet that requirement, the low level, inconsequential JAGs you keep bringing up don't.

[billsfan89]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Waiting until the trade deadline certainly makes sense. Perhaps the plan is to see if Claypool or Hamler can turn their careers around and negate the need for a trade. Of course that's an unlikely outcome but the plan makes sense if we absolutely have to wait until further into the season to be able to afford a new WR. Might as well take a flyer while still knowing in the back of our mind that the season doesn't hinge on one of those flyers working out.

 

I just find it really unlikely Plan A is Mack Hollins as the #2 outside WR, or Coleman as the presumed #1 for that matter, for the entire season. Hollins was seen as a Trent Sherfield caliber signing. Coleman is a rookie and the team historically never goes into a season with the rookie penciled in as the surefire starter. The lack of investment at the position makes me more confident an investment is coming, if not right away then at some point in the season.

 

Bills meeting with MVS could be another cheap kick the tires move but that’s a signing that I think can be more impactful. I don’t always think a team not making a move is a bad thing. The Bills didn’t make much of a move at RT or MLB last offseason, they liked what they had in Brown and Bernard and they turned out to be right.

 

I do think WR is a bigger position to take a gamble on so to speak but if the front office likes Shakir’s ability to step into a bigger role, Samuel to be a better fit on the offense, Coleman’s ability to add a better bigger receiver than Gabe and what Shorter and Hollins bring then maybe that’s not a bad thing?

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he is a decent GM. He has some flaws though and his team building priorities are one. 

If Beane is just “decent” as a GM then who are the 10ish GM’s better than him? He and McD inherited a team that was in the middle of a 17 year playoff drought and turned the team into a consistent division winner and playoff contender.

 

I am not going to say Beane hasn’t made mistakes or that he’s by far the best GM in the NFL or anything like that. But I will say he’s at least a top 10 GM far better than “decent”. 
 

I would say the Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles, 49ers and Packers have GM’s you can or argue over Beane. But after that you are turning into a lot of thin waters to find GM’s better than Beane.

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I get it, you don't think DJ Moore is a possibility.  I did put him in the dark horse category.  But if McD/Beane liked him from their Car days and offer up a 1st you never know.  And when Chic traded for Moore they didn't know they would draft Rome.

 

I don't think you understand how they can play with the salary once they get the player.  

For instance suppose they trade for Metcalf.  He has a $13M salary.  Right after they get him (really part of the negotiation of the trade) they extend him, give him a signing bonus with guarantees and reduce his 2024 salary to something small that the FO wants it to be, lets say $5M.  Then the net affect is they got the $10M Tre money + $3+ earlier, got Metcalf renegotiated and then come out with $8M for the safety (Hyde) and rest of season.

 

As for DHop, you may think Tenn wants to move Burks, but no one wants him.  Tenn added Ridley and Boyd.  Dhop is on his last year of his contract, moving him for some draft capital would have to be mighty tempting.  DHop shows an $8M salary which is great value.  May have to throw a 2nd to get that.

 

D Adams is surprisingly not getting much love here.  D Adams carries a $44M salary for the Raiders next year so he should be available.  He has a $16M salary that they would need to briefly accounted for, then restructure with the extensions, signing bonus, guarantee manipulations. 

 

The point is to get someone in here that has the expected value of at least what we lost in Diggs.  DK Metcalf/D Adams/D Hopkins meet that requirement, the low level, inconsequential JAGs you keep bringing up don't.

 

You're right. No one's giving up much of anything for Burks. Because he has bust written all over him. Which is why they signed Ridley to replace him. They aren't sitting there thinking "well, we can get something for Hopkins and we can't get anything for Burks - so let's move Hopkins and make ourselves worse by starting Burks, even though we've just replaced him". 

 

You're only looking at that situation from a Bills fan perspective. It doesn't make any sense for Tennessee. They don't need the cap space, aren't tanking, and are trying to give Will Levis the best weapons to develop. 

 

As for the contracts - they have to be able to take on a contract as is for a trade to be approved before they can "play with it". You can't touch it before you acquire the player and it won't be approved if you don't have it. And we won't.

 

Having the Draft Picks, having the need, and wanting more than what we can do doesn't change the fact that what you want is extremely unlikely and nearly impossible to happen. If it's something major or nothing, you're way more likely than not, getting nothing.

 

That's why....

 

 

As I've said, of course I'd want one of those guys over who we're bringing in tonight and the other options that I've brought up. But the options I've been looking at are realistic. The ones you are fixated on, are not. With what it would take for Beane to do it, it's akin to hoping we'd trade into the Top 6 of the Draft a month ago. You're putting your expectations too high and setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

If the option is a realistic one or nothing, I'll take the best we can get over Hollins, Shorter, and Claypool. And it's way more likely than not that the best that we can do is an MVS.

Edited May 14 by BillsFanForever19

[Wizard]

If the team wants a proven #1 WR, then there are only a handful of those guys to trade for (Jefferson, Hill, Lamb, and maybe 1-2 other guys).

 

Bills do not have the salary cap for that or the draft capital to get a player like that.

[Low Positive]

11 minutes ago, Wizard said:

If the team wants a proven #1 WR, then there are only a handful of those guys to trade for (Jefferson, Hill, Lamb, and maybe 1-2 other guys).

 

Bills do not have the salary cap for that or the draft capital to get a player like that.

We had a player like that. Bills should have done with Diggs what the Bengals are doing with Higgins and Hendrickson. Teams don’t have to honor trade demands.

[billsfan89]

12 minutes ago, Wizard said:

If the team wants a proven #1 WR, then there are only a handful of those guys to trade for (Jefferson, Hill, Lamb, and maybe 1-2 other guys).

 

Bills do not have the salary cap for that or the draft capital to get a player like that.

 

The Bills have the draft capital if they wanted to make a trade for a vet. They have 6 picks in the first 4 rounds in 2025 plus the Bills are projected to get 2-3 comp picks including a round 4 pick which makes trading away capital more tolerable. 

 

The Bills have the draft capital to trade for a vet WR. The issue with a vet trade would mainly be cap space related. The Bills have about 2.7 million and after June 1st will have about 12.7 million. But the Bills likely won't be able to use all 12 million. I think their current cap number doesn't figure to the rookies which will eat about 2 million on the top 51 so that's going to get you to about 10.7 million in space. Then you have to reserve about 4 million for the practice squad, and most teams including the Bills like to have about 3 million for in season emergencies. So that's going to leave you with about 3.7 million in space that you can actually do something with factoring in those three other things (Practice Squad, Rookie deals and in season space). 

 

Now the Bills could convert the rest of Josh's salary to a bonus and lower his cap hit and open up another 6 million in space but even if they did that it would still only give them 9.7 million in space to play with which is not that great a spot to be in for acquiring a big contract without having to completely backload a deal in an untenable manner. Maybe an in season deal is easier? 

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, warrior9 said:

We did not have better WR's .... Gabe and Diggs were non-existent last year down the stretch. Our three best receivers (cook is one) down that stretch are back, are rookies to 3 years in the NFL.. you don't see the value in that? 

 

Do you seriously not understand the value of a 22 y/o, young TE that is budding, and a receiving threat that is 23/24? If not, I can't help you..

 

even with a down year, Diggs/Davis/Shakir are better than this crew.  

 

Kincaid budding is nice, but the topic is WR.

[mannc]

9 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I get it, you don't think DJ Moore is a possibility.  I did put him in the dark horse category.  But if McD/Beane liked him from their Car days and offer up a 1st you never know.  And when Chic traded for Moore they didn't know they would draft Rome.

 

I don't think you understand how they can play with the salary once they get the player.  

For instance suppose they trade for Metcalf.  He has a $13M salary.  Right after they get him (really part of the negotiation of the trade) they extend him, give him a signing bonus with guarantees and reduce his 2024 salary to something small that the FO wants it to be, lets say $5M.  Then the net affect is they got the $10M Tre money + $3+ earlier, got Metcalf renegotiated and then come out with $8M for the safety (Hyde) and rest of season.

 

As for DHop, you may think Tenn wants to move Burks, but no one wants him.  Tenn added Ridley and Boyd.  Dhop is on his last year of his contract, moving him for some draft capital would have to be mighty tempting.  DHop shows an $8M salary which is great value.  May have to throw a 2nd to get that.

 

D Adams is surprisingly not getting much love here.  D Adams carries a $44M salary for the Raiders next year so he should be available.  He has a $16M salary that they would need to briefly accounted for, then restructure with the extensions, signing bonus, guarantee manipulations. 

 

The point is to get someone in here that has the expected value of at least what we lost in Diggs.  DK Metcalf/D Adams/D Hopkins meet that requirement, the low level, inconsequential JAGs you keep bringing up don't.

Brandon Aiyuk remains a better option than any of the guys you mention here, and he’s reportedly available, especially with the Niners just having double-dipped at WR in the draft.  I recognize Aiyuk is somewhat of a pipe dream given the Bills’ cap situation, but he’s better than all the guys mentioned here and he could probably be had for the second-round pick we got for Diggs.  

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Brandon Aiyuk remains a better option than any of the guys you mention here, and he’s reportedly available, especially with the Niners just having double-dipped at WR in the draft.  I recognize Aiyuk is somewhat of a pipe dream given the Bills’ cap situation, but he’s better than all the guys mentioned here and he could probably be had for the second-round pick we got for Diggs.  

Aiyuk would be an excellent candidate.  I don't think our cap situation is as bad as many make it out to be.  But with Aiyuk I do worry about how much he thinks he is worth.  I think he would be expensive.  

 

If Beane could bring Aiyuk in, it would change the outlook of our WR room dramatically.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Please - no one over 26 years old.  Save our money and develop our guys.  Josh has so many weapons - can't just look in the WR room.  I'd rather get a good corner than another wideout, if we had to make a move.  Our problem last year was defense.

[warrior9]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

even with a down year, Diggs/Davis/Shakir are better than this crew.  

 

Kincaid budding is nice, but the topic is WR.

Ok, Coleman will be better than Gabe and Shakir was better than Diggs down the stretch, which is undeniable.

 

if the topic is WR, why are you worried so much? chiefs won with their TE being their top choice 3 times in 5 - 6 years… we’ll be fine. We won without Gabe and Diggs down the stretch…? 

 

Not to mention: EVEN IF we had a better WR room last year (which we didn't), we can get away with it being worse this year because of the emergence of Cook and Kincaid, unsure how you don't see this? 
 

again, if you don’t understand the value of getting younger with better talent, I have nothing to say. 

Edited May 14 by warrior9

[Blackbeard]

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Except he's not.

Didn't he just say were not signing anymore WR?

 

Look what just happened.  

 

My point proven.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

I'm not sure why people keep listing Deandre Hopkins, the Titans are giving QB Will Levis everything he needs to be successful before his contract hits. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:31 AM, Einstein's Dog said:

A good number of our fans (including myself) are expecting a post June 1st trade for a WR.  This WR should be of at least the quality of the expected 2024 Diggs.  Listed below are who I feel are the top contenders:

 

1.  DK Metcalf - rumored to be on the market, salary $13M, age 27.  Big, fast, would be great addition.

2.  B Aiyuk - previously rumored to be on the market and would make sense because SF has a lot of high priced WRs and drafted one in Round 1.  Salary $14M, age 26.  Downside is looking for big payday.

3.  D Hopkins - Tenn has glut of WRs.  Salary around $13M (maybe less based on how the $8M salary + $4M roster bonus is distributed).  age 32.

4.  D Adams - Raiders are going to stink and have no QB,  Adams contract is such that this looks like his last year w $44M next year.  Salary $17M, age 32.

 

Dark Horse candidates

5.  DJ Moore - former Carolina pick, salary $16M, age 27

6.  C Kupp - salary $15M, age 31

7.  C Godwin - salary $20M, age 28

 

The combination of draft capital and salary needed to be given for each listed WR makes is hard to figure out which way to go.  Lets hope Beane makes one happen.

I think Allen and Metcalf would ball out. Both big physical freaks at their position and DK has that massive catch range. I would say Devante Adams too, but honestly I think the guy is a total POS and don’t want him in a Bills uniform. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

58 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Ok, Coleman will be better than Gabe and Shakir was better than Diggs down the stretch, which is undeniable.

 

if the topic is WR, why are you worried so much? chiefs won with their TE being their top choice 3 times in 5 - 6 years… we’ll be fine. We won without Gabe and Diggs down the stretch…? 

 

Not to mention: EVEN IF we had a better WR room last year (which we didn't), we can get away with it being worse this year because of the emergence of Cook and Kincaid, unsure how you don't see this? 
 

again, if you don’t understand the value of getting younger with better talent, I have nothing to say. 

How are you so sure Coleman will be better this season? Gabe Davis has drop issues as of late, but he’s still a very good receiver. Jacksonville wouldn’t shell out 40 million for nothing. Go look at any Josh Allen highlight real and you’ll see Davis on half of the plays. One of the most disrespected players I’ve ever seen as a fan. That playoff performance was a once in a life time thing of beauty. Coleman could develop into something special, but my expectations are not very high for this season. This is why Buffalo went after guys like Samuel and MVS. 

[HappyDays]

The MVS signing makes me think a trade before the season is not in the cards, unfortunately. At the trade deadline I think is a real possibility though, when we would only take on approximately half of the player's cap hit this year. If Beane saves all of Tre's $10.2M that will be a sign that he is keeping in-season trade options open.

 

This is our locked in WR room:

Coleman - X

MVS - Field stretcher

Shakir - Slot

Samuel - Gadget/weapon/Z

Hollins - Depth/special teams

 

The 6th spot will be one of the rejects we've added or one of our late round/UDFA rookies from last year.

 

We need several best case scenarios to come to fruition for this to work. Coleman has to be ready to hit the ground running and be our primary outside WR. Shakir needs to prove he can take on a much larger target share. Samuel needs to stay healthy. The 6th WR needs to be better than Trent Sherfield.

 

If all of that happens plus Kincaid takes a step plus Brady proves he is a top 10 OC, we have the capability of being a top 3 offense again.

 

Assuming at least one of those outcomes fails, maybe we get Hopkins at the trade deadline.

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

I'm not sure why people keep listing Deandre Hopkins, the Titans are giving QB Will Levis everything he needs to be successful before his contract hits. 

D Hopkins seems like a likely trade partner because Tenn just added FAs C Ridley and Boyd.  They already had DHop and T Burks. 

 

I think they have new management that just added guys they want.  Also, DHop is on the last year of his deal, if they don't move him they will get nothing for him later.  They could be looking to move T Burks but the market for him just may not be there.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Blackbeard said:

Didn't he just say were not signing anymore WR?

 

Look what just happened.  

 

My point proven.

No he never said that.  Point failed.