WR trade candidates, who do you want?

[Chaos]

The Bills are focused past 2024.  They are not going to add anyone additional to the roster that has a cap hit that extends past the this upcoming season. 

[Nihilarian]

None IMHO.

 

My take is the team goes into OTA's and TC to see what they have and how well the offense works at that point. 

[Einstein's Dog]

22 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

None IMHO.

 

My take is the team goes into OTA's and TC to see what they have and how well the offense works at that point. 

When you say "None" that is what you think is going to happen, correct?  Not what you would like to happen, right?

[Nihilarian]

7 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

When you say "None" that is what you think is going to happen, correct?  Not what you would like to happen, right?

Yep. 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think you understand what happens after we trade for one of these WRs.  The Bills immediately restructure the deal - they give a guarantee, a signing bonus, and the Bills figure out how much of the salary they want to have count on this years cap (see DHop 2023 $1.8M salary).  So yes having money in the future matters a great deal.

 

When I referenced Von and Josh, I was refering to the 2025 number and how that can be increased from the $23M.  And I believe Josh could restructure again this year if needed- just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't.  Might be all part of the set-up, what a surprise, this opportunity just came up, had to get Josh involved, etc.

 

Hopkins is certainly in play, the new regime added two WRs and DHop is on his last year.  Metcalf is a distinct possibility because Seattle would want draft capital to get a QB next year, and Lockett doesn't get them any.  Aiyuk is a possibility.  Beane is evaluating the options.  There could of course be surprise ones like C Kupp or C Godwin because any GM that wanted to move a veteran WR for draft capital would be calling Beane - because although you can't tell it  on this message board it is glaringly obvious that the Bills would want a top tier WR.

 

 

For the hundredth time - you can't restructure numbers on contracts until after you've acquired them. To acquire them, you need to be able to take on the contract from the other team as is - or the trade won't go through.

 

This is where I'm saying the '25 numbers are beside the point. We need to be able to fit their current contract under our cap this year for it to work. And the trade isn't just "can you pay the cash salary? Done".

 

You are looking at these trade options from a strictly Bills fan standpoint. The Titans moving Hopkins makes no sense. Boyd is a Slot. Ridley replaces Burks in the lineup. This is akin to another team thinking "well Buffalo can't get anything for Elam, so maybe we can get Benford or Douglas and they'll start Elam". Unlikely, at best.

 

Do you know how many players are talked about as being "available for trade" that don't get moved every year? And the only ones that *seem* available are Higgins and one of the SF WR's. Everyone else is just Twitter fan fiction, at this point.

 

We've Drafted Coleman and signed Samuel, MVS, Hollins, Claypool, and Cephus. That's SIX WR additions this offseason alone. Not to mention having Shorter coming off of his redshirt year after spending a 5th on him. And of course, Khalil Shakir. 

 

We kept 5 WR's last season. Acquiring another at this point would be to cut all of Hollins (who was signed early in FA as they envision a role as a blocking WR and ST'er), Shorter (who I don't see being given no shot), Claypool, Cephus, Hamler, Isabella, and all UDFA's.

 

I don't see him cutting all of them or even keeping just 1 of them. Beane isn't sitting there going "Einstein's Dog doesn't think this player I signed or Drafted is enough, so I'm just going to ignore signing or Drafting them and keep going". That's not how it works. 

 

As it is, 50% of the posters on this board didn't think we'd add even 1 more WR before the MVS move. Now we're going to add not just one, but two more? Again, I don't see it. Especially at what it would cost financially, in compensation, what it would mean to the current depth chart, and the uncharacteristic from Beane cap maneuvers it would take to make it fit.

 

If we add anyone else, I see it being a CB. We have Douglas and Benford starting, which is good. But Benford is injury prone and beneath them on the perimeter, we have just Kaiir Elam (who is still a question mark) and Ja'Marcus Ingram. We lost Tre White and Dane Jackson and didn't replace Jackson.

 

Then there's the cost of the Draft Picks we haven't signed, the Practice Squad, and in season spending - which are unavoidable expenses that we have to account for that you just want to ignore.

Edited May 14 by BillsFanForever19

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

For the hundredth time - you can't restructure numbers on contracts until after you've acquired them. To acquire them, you need to be able to take on the contract from the other team as is - or the trade won't go through.

 

This is where I'm saying the '25 numbers are beside the point. We need to be able to fit their current contract under our cap this year for it to work. And the trade isn't just "can you pay the cash salary? Done".

 

You are looking at these trade options from a strictly Bills fan standpoint. The Titans moving Hopkins makes no sense. Boyd is a Slot. Ridley replaces Burks in the lineup. 

 

Once again - you overestimate what you need to acquire a player.  The contract is the salary, or remaining guarantees.  You don't have to pay any of the dead cap or outrageous backloaded amounts.  Like D Adams has $44M for 2025 and 2026, you do not need the extra $88M to get him.  No one is going to pay D Adams $44M next year, that is one of the reasons people think the Raiders would move him.

 

Another example is DHop, his salary is $8M, cap hit for 2023 $18M.  The Bills don't need to cover his cap hit or dead cap.  When the Bills get Tre's $10M they could trade for DHop because they have $8M covered, then immediately extend him 2 years, give him a signing bonus, and bring his salary down under $3M.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Once again - you overestimate what you need to acquire a player.  The contract is the salary, or remaining guarantees.  You don't have to pay any of the dead cap or outrageous backloaded amounts.  Like D Adams has $44M for 2025 and 2026, you do not need the extra $88M to get him.  No one is going to pay D Adams $44M next year, that is one of the reasons people think the Raiders would move him.

 

Another example is DHop, his salary is $8M, cap hit for 2023 $18M.  The Bills don't need to cover his cap hit or dead cap.  When the Bills get Tre's $10M they could trade for DHop because they have $8M covered, then immediately extend him 2 years, give him a signing bonus, and bring his salary down under $3M.

Is Hopkins even available?

[Einstein's Dog]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Is Hopkins even available?

We don't know for sure but there are signs point that something is possible with the WR group at Tenn.  They added C Ridley with a big contract to the holdovers of DHop and T Burks from last year.  Then they just added the FA Boyd.

 

You would think either DHop or Burks would be moved.  DHop has the larger salary and is on his last year of his contract.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Is Hopkins even available?

At this point it is hope and speculation at best. But if @Einstein's Dog's numbers are even approximately correct , DHop is an acquirable target who can materially assist the team for this and next season with a manageable price tag. 

I would like a younger player like DK Metcalf or Aiyuk but it will be a large impact on cap for next few years which will again limit the ability to sign FAs in the coming seasons. Imo, Beane has learned his lessons on that . 

My guess is that if we are going to add anyone, go after DHop and slightly overpay from a draft pick perspective. That will provide a solid veteran presence , round off the skill set and allow time for Coleman to mature. We can always draft another WR high next year and keep the funnel full.

Shavers, Claypool, Cephus, Hamler are dispensable. if we are going to limit the WR room to 6, the following is a good set

DHop

Samuel

Shakir

Coleman 

MVS

One of Hollins and Shorter

 

 

Edited May 15 by Fan in Chicago

[BillsFanForever19]

28 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

The Bills don't need to cover his cap hit or dead cap.  

 

If I'm overestimating, you're underestimating. The trading team doesn't acquire the player at no cap hit. That's not the way it works. Depending on contract scenarios, the cap hit may be lower. We aren't on the hook for bonus money. But the hit applies.

 

[Chicken Boo]

I really wish Beane would have opted for Devante Parker in free agency if this was the route he planned to take.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

46 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

We don't know for sure but there are signs point that something is possible with the WR group at Tenn.  They added C Ridley with a big contract to the holdovers of DHop and T Burks from last year.  Then they just added the FA Boyd.

 

You would think either DHop or Burks would be moved.  DHop has the larger salary and is on his last year of his contract.

 

 

I think they’re doing what a lot of teams are doing with rookie contract QBs, loading up at WR. Helps rookies develop also.

[Einstein's Dog]

41 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

If I'm overestimating, you're underestimating. The trading team doesn't acquire the player at no cap hit. That's not the way it works. Depending on contract scenarios, the cap hit may be lower. We aren't on the hook for bonus money. But the hit applies.

 

I don't know where you got that, but this method shouldn't make much difference for most of the players listed.  DHop for instance does have an $18M cap hit but had close to a $10M bonus.  D Adams has a $25M cap hit but had a $19M bonus.  DK Metcalf has a cap hit of $25M but with a bonus of $30M.

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said:

At this point it is hope and speculation at best. But if @Einstein's Dog's numbers are even approximately correct , DHop is an acquirable target who can materially assist the team for this and next season with a manageable price tag. 

I would like a younger player like DK Metcalf or Aiyuk but it will be a large impact on cap for next few years which will again limit the ability to sign FAs in the coming seasons. Imo, Beane has learned his lessons on that . 

My guess is that if we are going to add anyone, go after DHop and slightly overpay from a draft pick perspective. That will provide a solid veteran presence , round off the skill set and allow time for Coleman to mature. We can always draft another WR high next year and keep the funnel full.

 

 

But Diggs worked well overall.  And it wasn't the trade that set the Bills back it was the extension.  A young WR, while somewhat expensive, would make for a real transition to youth on offense that could be here for several years..  DK on a 4 year deal combined now w K Coleman for 4, Shakir for at least a couple more, Kincaid for 4 more, Cook for 2, Samuel for 3.  That's not a rebuild, that is a real phase 2.

 

DK Metcalf has grown on me.  A man child speedster.  I haven't seen much Seattle though so don't know about his hands.  What I did see one time was when a ball was intercepted at the goal line and Metcalf sprinted from the other side of the field and ran the guy down.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

8 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Because Gabe lost us 2 games last year and disappeared later in the season, dealt with injuries for a few years, and had costly drops. 

 

It's not hard to upgrade there (unless you're talking about blocking). He was hardly a threat. I'm sure Coleman will be better because he can catch, run after catch, and is far more athletic than Gabe. Using a contract to tell how good someone is... does not correlate. We can go down a long list of people that has massive contracts and weren't great afterward. If Bills thought he was good, they would have resigned him. 

 

Of course you need insurance. Samuel was here because we needed 2 WRs to start. Samuel would have been here whether we kept Diggs or not.. that signing is not a reflection of the Coleman draft. I don't think MVS will have much impact on this team. 

Davis balled out against KC and I will miss that personally. 

[GreggTX]

On 5/13/2024 at 8:37 AM, ganesh said:

None of the above.  I think the Bills are investing in Youth at the WR position with Kincaid, Coleman, Shakir,  Samuel and Claypool. I doubt they are going after a veteran WR...may be they will look for one with speed..but other than that this WR group is set for the next 2 years.

 

 

I think you're right about this year, but maybe they make another splash at WR. Much depends on Keon, Kahlil and Kincaid. We know what we have in Samuels and MVS. They are average NFL WR's with good but not great speed. They aren't exactly rookies either.

[oldmanfan]

9 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

But Diggs worked well overall.  And it wasn't the trade that set the Bills back it was the extension.  A young WR, while somewhat expensive, would make for a real transition to youth on offense that could be here for several years..  DK on a 4 year deal combined now w K Coleman for 4, Shakir for at least a couple more, Kincaid for 4 more, Cook for 2, Samuel for 3.  That's not a rebuild, that is a real phase 2.

 

DK Metcalf has grown on me.  A man child speedster.  I haven't seen much Seattle though so don't know about his hands.  What I did see one time was when a ball was intercepted at the goal line and Metcalf sprinted from the other side of the field and ran the guy down.

Well there you go.  You tell us you don’t know much about a guy but he’s the answer to you.  Because he ran fast on one play.  So did Beebe.  Was he the “#1” back in the day?

 

Training camp can’t get here soon enough.

 

 

[HappyDays]

This is our best hope at a #1 pass catcher this year:

 

His development is going to determine how good the group as a whole looks.

[BuffaloBillyG]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

This is our best hope at a #1 pass catcher this year:

 

His development is going to determine how good the group as a whole looks.

I'll take it a step further. Now that Diggs is gone...heading into the season Kincaid is the most important player on offense that doesn't wear #17. 

[The Jokeman]

Okay, While likely not going to happen but I didn't see anyone name them but two WRs that I would trade for are Garrett Wilson or Chris Olave.