2015 Carolina Panthers: Have we ever been as good?

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

One of these decades the Carolina model could work.

 

 

Carolina went 6-10 after that 15-1 season, so pretty clear that model is not sustainable.  Besides, the game is changing rapidly now and what worked in that one excellent season nearly 10 years ago no longer applies.    

 

 

That Carolina season is so overrated that it's ridiculous. 

 

They had one of the easiest schedules during our entire drought era.  They had not one team with more than 10 wins in their schedule, and then only two at 10-6.  

 

Not one team in their division scored more points than it allowed.  

 

That should be factors into any discussion.  

 

 

[Thurman#1]

13 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The Bills where the only team after Thanksgiving last year who where in playoff contention that did not have a receiver who was originally drafted before the 4th round. As Diggs was a 5 in Minny. In terms of priorities Beane puts receiver at a very low priority. 

 

 

Please. 

 

The fact that Diggs was drafted in the 5th completely ignores the fact that we spent a first on him. And he was worth it. Spending a first on a receiver is not putting receiver at a very low priority.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   The Panther’s were my second team. They got me through some ROUGH Bills seasons, with 2015 being a perfect example.

   That team was light years better than anything we have had in the McD/JA era for one simple reason. …. SWAGGER!

    On O, Cam and Josh are equal in this department. Cam elevated a putrid receiver group. His energy was infectious and they expected to score every time. 

   On D, Kuechly and Davis were MONSTERS!!!! So fun to watch. That D was a turnover creating machine and for those who remember, Boyst kept saying Cam sucked because the D kept giving him short fields.😜 We currently have Douglas who plays with that level of self confidence AND creates turnovers. Maybe Milano gets back to form but he couldn’t hold Kuechly or Davis’ jock in terms of ability.

    Most importantly,IMO, This was the Riverboat Ron era at its apex. All caution was thrown to the wind by Rivera and they played straight pedal to the metal on O. McD should have a one on one with his old boss and try to get rid of his risk aversion/ timidness/tentativeness tha this team seems to embody, especially when playing lesser teams( and MUCH TO OFTEN losing).

 

Emphasize apex.  Five losing seasons out of eight otherwise.  

 

Apart from that season, Rivera was 61-62 there.  His playoff track record apart from that one season is similar in futility to ours.  

 

The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.  

 

Rivera was there for 8 seasons before getting fired and going to DC they everyone saw how bad he really was.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

The Panthers always yo yoed between good seasons and bad, it was actually crazy to watch as it seemed so predictable 

 

They had crazy good talent in several positions, underachieved in major ways.  

 

My primary point was that that '15 season is vastly overrated as the season had their streets paved with gold, their schedule could not have been more accommodating had the schedule makers tried to make it easier.  Literally. 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

One of these decades the Carolina model could work.

 

 

Carolina went 6-10 after that 15-1 season, so pretty clear that model is not sustainable.  Besides, the game is changing rapidly now and what worked in that one excellent season nearly 10 years ago no longer applies.    

 

This is an issue of positional value.  McBeane have a tendency to address their personal priorities first to fit their scheme and then cry poor when other positions aren't and they flak for it.  They've now worked themselves into a corner cap-wise, and are sure to remind people of that self-inflicted limitation.    

 

If a team is using high draft picks on starting LB's and end up with Carolina's group in 2015, fine.  If they "need" to use more high picks and UFAs for non-pass rushing DLinemen, not so fine. 

 

Buffalo still prioritizes the wrong positions and tries to get by at the high positional value slots with less.  But it's their plan and they'll keep trying to jam that square peg into the round hole like a 4-year old.  Papa Terry doesn't seem to care they're wasting his quarter-billion dollar QB in the process. 

 

 

 

You're mis-stating the model there. They clearly value pass-rushing DLs. Rousseau, for one. And for a DT, Oliver rushes very well. They also brought in Von. They value it. It's just that great pass-rushing DEs aren't usually still available where we generally draft.

 

How many first rounders have the Chiefs spent on receivers? They traded up this year, but we got our WR only about five picks later this year. That's not about position value, it's about who each team liked and where they thought they could get them.

 

The Chiefs've used a lot of draft picks on DLs as well. 10 since 2018 out of 48. And five out of 21 in the first three rounds, including three first rounders.

 

This model has worked and is currently outperforming any other model. It's damn sustainable. Even if not with Cam Newton's health going so early.

 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I'm surprised Dave Gentleman hasn't been hired by the Bills he was the GM for those Panthers . McBeane probably offered him a job Gentleman probably wants to go into retirement. 

 

The Bills are not top heavy talented other then Josh we have no real difference makers on this team. The Bills like hard working culture players and we usually have good depth that's why we've been successful up to this point ntm our division has been pretty much easy the last few years . 

 

Beane doesn't put great priority on speed at the skill positions and that's a skill thats paramount in today's wide open spread game. I liked this draft I believe there's some good football players that have potential to start at some point in the near future. All in all I agree with you it seems like another early playoff exit coming in the future with the same talking points next off-season. 

That’s a lazy opinion.  Everyone can run at the skill positions in the NFL. Do you think Shakir is slow?  Ask the Steelers what they think of his movement. Samuel is fast also.  James Cook is fast.  Hell Josh Allen is fast at QB.  We let Poyer and Hyde go because  they got older and slower.  Our LB’s can all move.  
 

And don’t  forget football is a physical game.  You have to be tough in the trenches.  That is how Beane has built the team.  Good on both lines.  Watch the way defenses play now.  Teams keep their DB’s back to take away the deep ball.  No one is overly successful throwing the deep ball now including Mahomes.   It’s a lot of short and intermediate passing, and hope for good YAC.  That’s why Kincaid will feast this year.  And btw he can run also.  

 

THE Bills philosophy has been super solid the past 5 years.  We need to stay healthier on defense this year.  And peak as the season heads toward the playoffs.  Getting rid of Diggs will be good for the offense.  He became a cancer last season and sucked in the playoffs all 4 years.  
 

i am excited about the team with a lot of new players.  As a fan going through the offseason and heading into a new season, all you want and hope for is a solid chance to win.  Beane gives us that every year.  How it goes once the season starts and plays out remains to be seen.  But I love the organization and how we build a team every year.  

[PBF81]

39 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, absolutely. But we are talking about that year.

 

Still amazed by how early Newton's drop-off happened, and how steep it was.

 

I guess I disagree that he was overrated. Everyone knows he was never very good after that year. Before that year, pretty damn good. That year. Terrific.

 

 

 

Was it really a drop-off though?  

 

He was an incredibly average QB in every other season, no?  ... by any measure.  

 

On that season his passing stats were skewed by three monster 5 TD games against the two worst ranked paying D teams and the 25th ranked.  Those were the the best passing games of his entire career.  

 

The rest of his season was also incredibly average.  

 

 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Emphasize apex.  Five losing seasons out of eight otherwise.  

 

Apart from that season, Rivera was 61-62 there.  His playoff track record apart from that one season is similar in futility to ours.  

 

The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.  

 

Rivera was there for 8 seasons before getting fired and going to DC they everyone saw how bad he really was.  

 

 

 

They had crazy good talent in several positions, underachieved in major ways.  

 

My primary point was that that '15 season is vastly overrated as the season had their streets paved with gold, their schedule could not have been more accommodating had the schedule makers tried to make it easier.  Literally. 

 

 

Their schedule wasn’t easy in the playoffs. They absolutely annihilated the 13-3 Cards.

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Their schedule wasn’t easy in the playoffs. They absolutely annihilated the 13-3 Cards.

 

Correct, one team/game all season.  

 

Seattle was not tough.  

 

Denver had Manning (P) before he unceremoniously slinked off after having posted the worst season of any starting QB that season.  9 TDs, 17 INTs, and the worst rating in the league.  

 

They were all but shut out against Denver's D which was about the same as Arizona's.  

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

Panthers were better everywhere, with a tie at QB.

 

Crazy how you can see the 1990’s team building philosophy in both rosters. 

Josh would’ve dove for that fumble. Cam Newton is a disgrace and no where near Allen’s level or consistency excluding his rookie and MVP year. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   The Panther’s were my second team. They got me through some ROUGH Bills seasons, with 2015 being a perfect example.

   That team was light years better than anything we have had in the McD/JA era for one simple reason. …. SWAGGER!

    On O, Cam and Josh are equal in this department. Cam elevated a putrid receiver group. His energy was infectious and they expected to score every time. 

   On D, Kuechly and Davis were MONSTERS!!!! So fun to watch. That D was a turnover creating machine and for those who remember, Boyst kept saying Cam sucked because the D kept giving him short fields.😜 We currently have Douglas who plays with that level of self confidence AND creates turnovers. Maybe Milano gets back to form but he couldn’t hold Kuechly or Davis’ jock in terms of ability.

    Most importantly,IMO, This was the Riverboat Ron era at its apex. All caution was thrown to the wind by Rivera and they played straight pedal to the metal on O. McD should have a one on one with his old boss and try to get rid of his risk aversion/ timidness/tentativeness tha this team seems to embody, especially when playing lesser teams( and MUCH TO OFTEN losing).

Kuechly was a great LB.  One of the best of this millenium.  But Davis no way was on Milano’s level.  He had game but wasn’t nearly as physical as Milano.  
 

Ron Rivera has always been an overrated marginal coach.  Better w Carolina.  But his tenure w Washington was an embarrassment.  

[Utah John]

Cam Newton had once superb season.  Josh Allen puts up superb seasons, year after year.  The biggest difference is that Newton didn't have to overcome Mahomes in the voting.  Face it, Mahomes is a great player on a great team with a great coach, and the Bills with Allen and McBeane get respect but not the top rating. If Mahomes wasn't playing, Allen would be regarded as better than Newton, but Mahomes IS playing, so Allen gets overlooked as MVP material.  

[Buffalo Boy]

42 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Emphasize apex.  Five losing seasons out of eight otherwise.  

 

Apart from that season, Rivera was 61-62 there.  His playoff track record apart from that one season is similar in futility to ours.  

 

The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.  

 

Rivera was there for 8 seasons before getting fired and going to DC they everyone saw how bad he really was.  

 

 

 

They had crazy good talent in several positions, underachieved in major ways.  

 

My primary point was that that '15 season is vastly overrated as the season had their streets paved with gold, their schedule could not have been more accommodating had the schedule makers tried to make it easier.  Literally. 

 

 

   The time to strike is when the opportunity presents itself.

   They caught lightning in a bottle tag at year, all year, till they ran into Denver’s D

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

More so defensively.  The rules changes have favored the offense/scoring, but the size of the athletes offensively have remained about the same.  

 

 

Everyone talks about the size and athleticism of the players today versus previous eras.  
 

Who was better on defense than Reggie White Bruce LT and Ronnie Lott? No one.  I would put Ray Lewis in there as well.  And he kind of split between two eras. 
 

But one quality that is certainly not better in today’s game is the toughness of the players back then.  Every game was a bludgeoning game of brutality!  That is what made the game so mythical.  Think of Kellen Winslow being carried off the field by teammates in what could have been the greatest game ever played between Miami and San Diego.  Or Gene Upshaw wearing those casts on his arms, etc.  Think of  Darryl Talley period.  It certainly is not like that anymore. 

[Buffalo Boy]

9 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Kuechly was a great LB.  One of the best of this millenium.  But Davis no way was on Milano’s level.  He had game but wasn’t nearly as physical as Milano.  
 

Ron Rivera has always been an overrated marginal coach.  Better w Carolina.  But his tenure w Washington was an embarrassment.  

You didn’t watch the same TD I did🤷‍♂️

[Chaos]

One piece of good news. The Bills will not be playing the 2015 Bills.  The bad news might be the possibility that McDermotts prowess as a defensive guru may be more about having a stacked roster than anything else. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

 

That Carolina season is so overrated that it's ridiculous. 

 

They had one of the easiest schedules during our entire drought era.  They had not one team with more than 10 wins in their schedule, and then only two at 10-6.  

 

Not one team in their division scored more points than it allowed.  

 

That should be factors into any discussion.  

 

 

 

Bit like the 2022 Eagles. They beat nobody.

[FireChans]

58 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Correct, one team/game all season.  

 

Seattle was not tough.  

 

Denver had Manning (P) before he unceremoniously slinked off after having posted the worst season of any starting QB that season.  9 TDs, 17 INTs, and the worst rating in the league.  

 

They were all but shut out against Denver's D which was about the same as Arizona's.  

 

 

Seattle, the back the back NFC champions and the 1st overall defense and 4th overall offense “wasn’t tough?”

 

The Denver defense was elite. They also frazzled Brady. They made a lot of good teams look silly.

[GoBills808]

 bills fans call a 15-1 super bowl team overrated is wild

[TheFunPolice]

Cam Newton, whose nickname in his prime was Superman. That hits a little close to home. 

 

Many people forget just how good Cam Newton was in his prime. He could throw it too, and holds the record for most 400 yard passing games as a rookie (2). The guy was a real QB in addition to being an athletic freak who could run the ball and bulldoze people. 

 

But, as big as he was, as athletic as he was, the hits took their toll and all of a sudden his throwing power was just gone. Cam's career was basically over at age 28. 

 

Allen has had 2 UCL injuries already in his throwing arm, plus shoulder injuries that have hampered him during the season. I don't think it's crazy to make the comparison based on playing styles and potential for the same outcome if adjustments are not made. 

 

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 bills fans call a 15-1 super bowl team overrated is wild

Beane is wistfully remembering the Devin Funchess, Philly Brown, Ted Ginn Jr offense.