2015 Carolina Panthers: Have we ever been as good?

[H2o]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

The age of posters is showing. In the early 90's we were better than the '15 Panthers. 

Of course we were. We went to 4 consecutive SB's. Today's NFL is very different than that of the 90's though. From the rule books, to the schemes, to the level and size of the athletes at each position. It's hard to compare eras like that in the NFL. 

[JGMcD2]

35 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Cam's passing yards that year:  3837

 

Josh's passing yards the past four years:  4544, 4407, 4283, 4306

 

When I started looking this stuff up, I thought sure Cam's passing yards would be significantly below Josh's, but that his running yards would be well above. 'Tain't so. Josh's passing yards were well above Cam's, but his rush yards are, on the average, about equal to Cam's that year.

 

Cam had 636 yards and 10 TDs. Josh went 421, 763, 762 and 524, which averages out to about the same. And 8, 6, 7 and 15 TDs, which averages out to 9 TDs a season, one below Cam.

 

Give me Josh. But not by all that much. Newton was terrific that year.

If we’re just talking about that year, yeah it’s close.

 

Otherwise Newton really wasn’t the good in comparison to Josh. Josh is consistently putting up Newton’s MVP numbers… Cam never came close to that type of production before or after 2015. 
 

I feel Cam was and is pretty overrated. 

[BillsVet]

One of these decades the Carolina model could work.

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

The build is very similar to Carolina. Constant resource allocation to the front 7 on defense in FA and the draft. The numbers are staggeringly similar in terms of drafting. 

 

In the TEN drafts where Beane was in a senior role in the Carolina front office (2008-2017) the Panthers had 69 draft picks and spent 20 of them on front 7 on defense. That is 29%. They had 28 picks in that time in the first three rounds and spent 12 of them on the defensive front 7. That is 43%

 

In the SEVEN drafts Beane has been GM in Buffalo (2018-2024) the Bills have had 55 draft picks and spent 14 of them on front 7 on defense. That is 25%. They have had 21 picks in that time in the first three rounds and spent 9 of them on defensive front 7. That is 43% (identical to Carolina). 

 

Is worth saying at this point that defensive front 7 is around 30% of your starters, so those numbers should be seen in that context. But Brandon Beane is building his team the way he witnessed it done in Carolina. He tells us himself he will never apologise for prioritising the defensive front. And he is as good as his word in that regard. 

 

Carolina went 6-10 after that 15-1 season, so pretty clear that model is not sustainable.  Besides, the game is changing rapidly now and what worked in that one excellent season nearly 10 years ago no longer applies.    

 

This is an issue of positional value.  McBeane have a tendency to address their personal priorities first to fit their scheme and then cry poor when other positions aren't and they flak for it.  They've now worked themselves into a corner cap-wise, and are sure to remind people of that self-inflicted limitation.    

 

If a team is using high draft picks on starting LB's and end up with Carolina's group in 2015, fine.  If they "need" to use more high picks and UFAs for non-pass rushing DLinemen, not so fine. 

 

Buffalo still prioritizes the wrong positions and tries to get by at the high positional value slots with less.  But it's their plan and they'll keep trying to jam that square peg into the round hole like a 4-year old.  Papa Terry doesn't seem to care they're wasting his quarter-billion dollar QB in the process. 

 

 

 

 

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

15-1…

 

They did have a ridiculously easy schedule that season.  

 

Which could be why they had losing records both before and after that season.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

One of these decades the Carolina model could work.

 

 

Carolina went 6-10 after that 15-1 season, so pretty clear that model is not sustainable.  Besides, the game is changing rapidly now and what worked in that one excellent season nearly 10 years ago no longer applies.    

 

This is an issue of positional value.  McBeane have a tendency to address their personal priorities first to fit their scheme and then cry poor when other positions aren't and they flak for it.  They've now worked themselves into a corner cap-wise, and are sure to remind people of that self-inflicted limitation.    

 

If a team is using high draft picks on starting LB's and end up with Carolina's group in 2015, fine.  If they "need" to use more high picks and UFAs for non-pass rushing DLinemen, not so fine. 

 

Buffalo still prioritizes the wrong positions and tries to get by at the high positional value slots with less.  But it's their plan and they'll keep trying to jam that square peg into the round hole like a 4-year old.  Papa Terry doesn't seem to care they're wasting his quarter-billion dollar QB in the process. 

 

 

I'm not defending that model. I have criticised it. But spending lots of capital on defensive front 7 and not much on wide receivers is Beane's MO. It is the team building ethos he grew up in. I'd like to see him flex too but I'd not sure he is going to. 

[Mikie2times]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

The age of posters is showing. In the early 90's we were better than the '15 Panthers. 

I felt a good mature man like yourself could see the comparison was about the current Bills and not the 90’s. Next time I will post about our AFL championship teams compared to the Carolina Panthers, because that makes sense 

[Buffalo Boy]

   The Panther’s were my second team. They got me through some ROUGH Bills seasons, with 2015 being a perfect example.

   That team was light years better than anything we have had in the McD/JA era for one simple reason. …. SWAGGER!

    On O, Cam and Josh are equal in this department. Cam elevated a putrid receiver group. His energy was infectious and they expected to score every time. 

   On D, Kuechly and Davis were MONSTERS!!!! So fun to watch. That D was a turnover creating machine and for those who remember, Boyst kept saying Cam sucked because the D kept giving him short fields.😜 We currently have Douglas who plays with that level of self confidence AND creates turnovers. Maybe Milano gets back to form but he couldn’t hold Kuechly or Davis’ jock in terms of ability.

    Most importantly,IMO, This was the Riverboat Ron era at its apex. All caution was thrown to the wind by Rivera and they played straight pedal to the metal on O. McD should have a one on one with his old boss and try to get rid of his risk aversion/ timidness/tentativeness tha this team seems to embody, especially when playing lesser teams( and MUCH TO OFTEN losing).

Edited May 9 by Buffalo Boy

[boyst]

15 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I felt a good mature man like yourself could see the comparison was about the current Bills and not the 90’s. Next time I will post about our AFL championship teams compared to the Carolina Panthers, because that makes sense 

"have we ever been as good?"

 

words matter. do better.

[Buffalo Boy]

2 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

Cam and those 2015 Panthers did not have to deal with the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs back in 2015 -- whereas the Josh-era Bills were knocked out of the playoffs by those Chiefs 3 times -- twice in break-heart fashion. Otherwise, Josh and the Bills very likely would have appeared in at least 2 Super Bowls (and possibly 3).

The Bill’s coaches ineptitude knocked us out of the second game!

[Mikie2times]

Just now, boyst said:

"have we ever been as good?"

 

words matter. do better.

The 2015 Carolina Panthers: Have the Bills during the McDermott era ever been better?

 

Try actually reading more than a title and being less condescending before you tell others to do better. 

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, Bills!Win! said:

Why don’t I remember the Panthers having Jared Allen? 

He came on to try to win a SB.

[Buffalo Boy]

57 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

They did have a ridiculously easy schedule that season.  

 

Which could be why they had losing records both before and after that season.  

 

 

The Panthers always yo yoed between good seasons and bad, it was actually crazy to watch as it seemed so predictable 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

From 2013 - 2017, David Gettleman was the Panthers' GM. He was also Brandon Beane's boss. In 2018, Gettleman found his way back to the NY Giants, and was GM there until 2021. Going into the 2018 draft, both the Bills and the Giants needed a quarterback. Gettleman had the 2nd overall pick. He very easily could have used that pick on Josh Allen. Instead, he took Saquon Barkley, RB. Beane then traded up to 7th overall, and drafted Josh Allen.

 

The fact Beane and his former boss Gettleman acted so differently in the 2018 draft makes me wonder if the two had differing philosophies. While Beane had been an important part of the Panthers' front office, final decisions were made by Gettleman.

 

As for neglect of the WR position: Beane traded away a first round pick for Diggs, and he just used the 33rd overall pick on Coleman. Am I satisfied with where we are at WR? Not as much as you might think. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's philosophically opposed to using resources at receiver. I'm curious to see what kind of investment he decides to make or not make at that position, in next year's draft.

 

I think the trade of diggs was not.. based on the philosophy of the position.  It was more of a locker room and general team issue.  Since it happened on 4/3, that's likely an indication that they were prepared to enter the season with him at the position, and that samuel was more of a replacement for davis than anything else.  

[boyst]

9 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

The 2015 Carolina Panthers: Have the Bills during the McDermott era ever been better?

 

Try actually reading more than a title and being less condescending before you tell others to do better. 

2024 brah

 

no one reads past the headline.

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not defending that model. I have criticised it. But spending lots of capital on defensive front 7 and not much on wide receivers is Beane's MO. It is the team building ethos he grew up in. I'd like to see him flex too but I'd not sure he is going to. 

 

If they got one Chris Jones/TJ Watt type game changer out of all that investment it would probably have been enough for the Bills to win a Super Bowl. So at least partially, it was a matter of execution rather than philosophy.

 

 

Edited May 9 by Billy Claude

[BillsPride12]

The thing that stands out to me is how much more physical that Carolina team was especially on Defense.  Even though we have had good Defenses under McBeane we haven't been able to get to that level Carolina was at in 2015.  Not for lack of trying or using resources but Beane has struggled to put together a dominant Defensive line here, one of the biggest things holding the Bills back from being a true Super Bowl contender IMO. 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

If we’re just talking about that year, yeah it’s close.

 

Otherwise Newton really wasn’t the good in comparison to Josh. Josh is consistently putting up Newton’s MVP numbers… Cam never came close to that type of production before or after 2015. 
 

I feel Cam was and is pretty overrated. 

 

 

Yeah, absolutely. But we are talking about that year.

 

Still amazed by how early Newton's drop-off happened, and how steep it was.

 

I guess I disagree that he was overrated. Everyone knows he was never very good after that year. Before that year, pretty damn good. That year. Terrific.

 

 

Edited May 9 by Thurman#1

[78thealltimegreat]

7 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

From 2013 - 2017, David Gettleman was the Panthers' GM. He was also Brandon Beane's boss. In 2018, Gettleman found his way back to the NY Giants, and was GM there until 2021. Going into the 2018 draft, both the Bills and the Giants needed a quarterback. Gettleman had the 2nd overall pick. He very easily could have used that pick on Josh Allen. Instead, he took Saquon Barkley, RB. Beane then traded up to 7th overall, and drafted Josh Allen.

 

The fact Beane and his former boss Gettleman acted so differently in the 2018 draft makes me wonder if the two had differing philosophies. While Beane had been an important part of the Panthers' front office, final decisions were made by Gettleman.

 

As for neglect of the WR position: Beane traded away a first round pick for Diggs, and he just used the 33rd overall pick on Coleman. Am I satisfied with where we are at WR? Not as much as you might think. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's philosophically opposed to using resources at receiver. I'm curious to see what kind of investment he decides to make or not make at that position, in next year's draft.

The Bills where the only team after Thanksgiving last year who where in playoff contention that did not have a receiver who was originally drafted before the 4th round. As Diggs was a 5 in Minny. In terms of priorities Beane puts receiver at a very low priority. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Of course we were. We went to 4 consecutive SB's. Today's NFL is very different than that of the 90's though. From the rule books, to the schemes, to the level and size of the athletes at each position. It's hard to compare eras like that in the NFL. 

 

More so defensively.  The rules changes have favored the offense/scoring, but the size of the athletes offensively have remained about the same.  

 

 

[Yobogoya!]

24 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

If they got one Chris Jones/TJ Watt type game changer out of all that investment it would probably have been enough for the Bills to win a Super Bowl. So at least partially, it was a matter of execution rather than philosophy.

 

 

100%
 

If even one of Beane’s defensive picks was a DPOY type of player, a guy who can change the game even when the opposition does everything they can to take him out of it? Probably we’d at least have a trip to the dance by now, if not have won it all.