Tyler Boyd 1-year 4.5M with the Titans

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Likely more money than the Bills wanted to commit to the 4th WR. 

lol what

[BillsFanForever19]

39 minutes ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

First off, I agree with you on Shakir. He is strictly a slot WR, and I don't see him as a contributor on the outside. That said, I like Shakir as a slot. He may not have Cole Beasley's route running ability, but at least his catch percentage is refreshingly high. If you have someone like Shakir in the slot, you don't need to spend big bucks on some other slot receiver.

 

But, the Bills spent some decent cash on Curtis Samuel. If, like Shakir, Samuel is also strictly a slot, then signing him was a mistake. Giving Samuel the contract he got makes sense only if he can be productive as a Z receiver. With the Bills' cap situation, they simply don't have the luxury of giving out Curtis Samuel type contracts for the purpose of having a redundancy of slot receivers.

 

I don't think Beane is going to automatically write off the Curtis Samuel signing as a failure, before he's taken a single snap in a Bills uniform. Instead, I expect him to be given the opportunity to show what he can do, as a Z receiver. If he doesn't achieve much in that role, then maybe Beane picks up the phone and asks about what it would take to acquire Hopkins.

 

As for Coleman: my understanding is that he only has two years of football experience. I expect him to improve upon his biggest weakness (route running and gaining separation). That improvement might not happen right away, and I expect him to be a better player in week 17 than he is in week 1. If you need a guy to carry you through the first half of the season while Coleman learns, I'd be fine using some resources on that. Some. But not necessarily the type of resources you'd need to acquire and keep Hopkins.

 

 

Samuel isn't being written off as a failed deal or won't be used. He's going to get plenty of usage. But if you look at not only where he's found success in this league and what his role has been and the things Beane has said about him since signing him, he's not someone who's going to be used even 50%, let alone more than that on the Outside. Again, on multiple occasions when asked about Samuel and his role, Beane has called him simply "a weapon". Going on to say that when he was "in Carolina, Samuel was in the RB room just as much as the WR Room". Don't get me wrong, he'll get some usage on the Outside. But he isn't someone we're going to Start there or use predominantly there. He's going to be all over the field. Inside, in motion, out of the backfield, and occasionally Outside - depending on packages. He was used on the Inside on 75% of snaps last season. That's where he's found success. You don't just flip that number and play a guy away from where he's become successful.

 

52 minutes ago, FLFan said:

I think what McDermott is really notorious for is making rookies earn their spot by out performing the others, particularly veterans, ahead of them. Rookies have started and will continue to start.  In the case of Coleman, let’s face it, there is not much ahead of him.  The Bills have a big problems indeed if he cannot beat out the other X WR candidates on the roster.  There is no entrenched starter.  Coleman is by all accounts and observation so far a very smart kid, a hard worker, and a student of the game.  He is going to start at the X.  Beane did indicate where else they may play him depends on how fast he picks it up and his comfort level with other roles, so I expect we will see him exclusively at X to start the year.  
 

As for the rest, there is no Diggs equivalent on the roster to eat up snaps at the Z spot obviously.  Both Shakir and Samuel are going to get plenty of work at both spots.  The mix and snap percentages are going to be game plan and matchup dependent.  Kincaid is obviously the Big Slot/Move player and he will primarily play inside.  They are auditioning for a backup X who can also play special teams and speed receiver who can play either slot or Z, and possibly one other WR who can fill multiple roles.  
 

That is my view of it anyway at this point.  

 

I firmly disagree with Shakir getting plenty of work at both spots. He is a pure Slot. That's his game. He is not an Outside WR. Just because he produced well last season from the Slot doesn't mean we can just put him on the Outside against taller, longer armed, more physical (and generally more talented) CB's and tell him to beat their press and go more vertically.

 

That's not his game. It would be malpractice to take a young player who is developing and succeeding in one position and then say "cool, now do something else". You keep him where he's successful and you continue his development. Like I said, we were able to steal him in the 5th because he was viewed as someone who could only work Inside and when we put him out there for a handful of plays in the Playoffs in a pinch, he wasn't making plays.

 

He's Cole Beasley. Cole had incredible seasons for us out of the Slot. That didn't make us go, "you're a Perimeter WR now".

Edited May 7 by BillsFanForever19

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I'm actually not high on Claypool. I don't think he's making the cut. 

No one should care about Claypool, he’s a lottery ticket. I don’t get why people are so strongly against him. If he’s all in the he’ll make the team, if he’s not then he’ll be cut.

 

Simple as that. Guys like OBj and Boyd are WR3’s and weren’t coming to Buffalo to compete for WR4.

 

Edited May 7 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Are people here seriously pining for DeAndre Hopkins? Dude's 50 isn't he?

[GoBills808]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Are people here seriously pining for DeAndre Hopkins? Dude's 50 isn't he?

31 to be 32 and walks in the door as the best wideout we have

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Are people here seriously pining for DeAndre Hopkins? Dude's 50 isn't he?

What other young and affordable WRs are obtainable at this point?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

What other young and affordable WRs are obtainable at this point?

There are none, but that doesn't mean we should be pursuing that geriatric 

Edited May 7 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[FLFan]

8 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Samuel isn't being written off as a failed deal or won't be used. He's going to get plenty of usage. But if you look at not only where he's found success in this league and what his role has been and the things Beane has said about him since signing him, he's not someone who's going to be used even 50%, let alone more than that on the Outside. Again, on multiple occasions when asked about Samuel and his role, Beane has called him simply "a weapon". Going on to say that when he was "in Carolina, Samuel was in the RB room just as much as the WR Room". Don't get me wrong, he'll get some usage on the Outside. But he isn't someone we're going to Start there or use predominantly there. He's going to be all over the field. Inside, in motion, out of the backfield, and occasionally Outside - depending on packages. He was used on the Inside on 75% of snaps last season. That's where he's found success. You don't just flip that number and play a guy away from where he's become successful.

 

 

I firmly disagree with Shakir getting plenty of work at both spots. He is a pure Slot. That's his game. He is not an Outside WR. Just because he produced well last season from the Slot doesn't mean we can just put him on the Outside against taller, longer armed, more physical (and generally more talented) CB's and tell him to beat their press and go more vertically.

 

That's not his game. It would be malpractice to take a young player who is developing and succeeding in one position and then say "cool, now do something else". You keep him where he's successful and you continue his development. Like I said, we were able to steal him in the 5th because he was viewed as someone who could only work Inside and when we put him out there for a handful of plays in the Playoffs in a pinch, he wasn't making plays.

 

He's Cole Beasley. Cole had incredible seasons for us out of the Slot. That didn't make us go, "you're a Perimeter WR now".

First, I did not say it was ideal, but I still think that is how they are going to play them.  What the exact mix of positions and players will be is going to be a fascinating aspect to watch with respect to Buffalos offense.  It is going to be up to Brady to figure that out, and put the various tools at his disposal in the best positions based on matchups and situations.   Second, I think Shakir is a much more versatile player than Beasley ever was.  While he might be primarily a slot, he has shown the ability to produce from outside and can be used there some percentage of the time.  He is not a Diggs replacement clearly, but that does not exist in the Bills roster nor will it this year.  

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

There are none, but that doesn't mean we should be pursuing that geriatric 

disagree- he’s still pretty dam good, won’t cost much and can be fit under the cap relatively easy.  I think he’s just about the only way to upgrade the WR at this point unless you think trading for Aiyuk or Higgins feasible.  I don’t 

[Rampant Buffalo]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Samuel isn't being written off as a failed deal or won't be used. He's going to get plenty of usage. But if you look at not only where he's found success in this league and what his role has been and the things Beane has said about him since signing him, he's not someone who's going to be used even 50%, let alone more than that on the Outside. Again, on multiple occasions when asked about Samuel and his role, Beane has called him simply "a weapon". Going on to say that when he was "in Carolina, Samuel was in the RB room just as much as the WR Room". Don't get me wrong, he'll get some usage on the Outside. But he isn't someone we're going to Start there or use predominantly there. He's going to be all over the field. Inside, in motion, out of the backfield, and occasionally Outside - depending on packages. He was used on the Inside on 75% of snaps last season. That's where he's found success. You don't just flip that number and play a guy away from where he's become successful.

 

 

I see two ways for Curtis Samuel to justify his contract:

 

1) He's a good player at Z receiver.

2) He's a significant and noticeable upgrade over Shakir in the slot.

 

In either of those scenarios, you feel justified in giving Samuel the contract you gave him. If Samuel is playing mostly slot, that means his playing time is coming at the expense of Shakir. So, by adding one good player, you're sending another good player to the bench. Unless Samuel is giving you a significant upgrade over Shakir, why use a decent amount of cap money on something like that? There were so many other ways that cap money could have been used. 

 

As for Beane's comments: if I had to guess, I'd say he wanted to leave Samuel's usage up to the offensive coaching staff. So, he was deliberately vague, with the intention of letting the offensive coaches use Samuel however they like.

 

As for the 25/75 split you mentioned, that's kind of depressing. But if the Washington Cobra Commanders had great outside receivers and a lack of guys for the slot, maybe that would push Samuel into the slot. If Samuel did a great job with the 25% of snaps he took from the outside, that would certainly be encouraging.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I love the fact fans are freaking out over WR. The Bills 100% made their bed. Let them lay in it. Why are people freaking out? 
 

They signed their WR. They drafted their WR. They made their moves. Let it play out. My goodness. 

[chris heff]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

This is the part of Diggs' game we'll miss the most. Diggs is an elite route runner and that's one reason Beane brought him in from the Vikings. Route running is probably the thing that Diggs does best, out of all aspects of his game.  My point is, don't expect Coleman to have this skill, at least not to start with.  I think the Bills will be using numbers to try to get at least one of their receivers open on every play, instead of expecting someone (i.e. Diggs) to be open on almost every play. 

“The thing that Diggs does best”, the verb is wrong, it should be did not does. Diggs route running starting in about he middle of 2022 seasons became very suspect.

[78thealltimegreat]

I look forward to Curtis Samuel having his best season of his career 

[Paup 1995MVP]

6 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I want him before then, get DHop after June 1st.

 

Hoping it's all preplanned.  Tenn just got rid of some salary if they move DHop for Boyd.  And we could throw Tenn a 4th, extend DHop's a year to make it 2 years

Why do we want another aging WR for two years who can catch an 8 yard out?
 

We just got rid of one of those.  
 

We need young talent at this point.  
 

[NORWOODS FOOT]

5 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Now Tenn has Ridley, DHop, Boyd and the first round pick T Burks.  That's too much investment in the WR room.

Too much? Too much?! No! I got a fever, baby!  We need more! More cowbell… er… receivers! 
 

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

There are none, but that doesn't mean we should be pursuing that geriatric 

So you totally ignored the fact that Hopkins is just 31 . For a RB that's the end of the road but not for a WR. Plus he posted a 1000 yard season on that Titans team. 

I don't know if the Titans will trade him but if they are willing, the Bills should get him. Gives him the opportunity to play another 2-3 years and ride away into the sunset with rings.

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I love the fact fans are freaking out over WR. The Bills 100% made their bed. Let them lay in it. Why are people freaking out? 
 

They signed their WR. They drafted their WR. They made their moves. Let it play out. My goodness. 

Why are you freaking out about that ? 

 

Many, including me, believe that we need another good WR and the off season isn't done yet 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

I see two ways for Curtis Samuel to justify his contract:

 

1) He's a good player at Z receiver.

2) He's a significant and noticeable upgrade over Shakir in the slot.

 

In either of those scenarios, you feel justified in giving Samuel the contract you gave him. If Samuel is playing mostly slot, that means his playing time is coming at the expense of Shakir. So, by adding one good player, you're sending another good player to the bench. Unless Samuel is giving you a significant upgrade over Shakir, why use a decent amount of cap money on something like that? There were so many other ways that cap money could have been used. 

 

As for Beane's comments: if I had to guess, I'd say he wanted to leave Samuel's usage up to the offensive coaching staff. So, he was deliberately vague, with the intention of letting the offensive coaches use Samuel however they like.

 

As for the 25/75 split you mentioned, that's kind of depressing. But if the Washington Cobra Commanders had great outside receivers and a lack of guys for the slot, maybe that would push Samuel into the slot. If Samuel did a great job with the 25% of snaps he took from the outside, that would certainly be encouraging.

 

No. Samuel wasn't pushed to the Slot outside of necessity. That's his best fit and where he's found success over his career. That's why he's there and that's why you play him there. Their outside guys were Terry McLaurin and Jahan Dotson. Curtis Samuel was already in house when they Drafted Dotson to start on the Outside because Samuel is not someone you play even half the time there. Think of him as a high end gadget player, that works predominantly inside.

 

Ultimately, Samuel (GREATLY) replaces Harty as an all over the field weapon. Hollins replaces Sherfield. Coleman replaces one of Diggs or Davis. Shakir stays where he is. We'd be solid if we still had Diggs and were just needing to replace Davis on the Outside, as we were most of the offseason. Coleman covers that. But we went into this Draft with no longer needing to replace just Davis, but Diggs and Davis instead. We did not (and quite frankly could not) do that. We have an Outside hole, simple as that. Made even worse by Coleman not being expected to start the year. And guys like Justin Shorter, Chase Claypool, and Quintez Cephus can not be relied on upon to fill that hole, in my opinion. You can keep 1 of them, maybe 2 of them if we keep 7 this year (as we have in multiple seasons under McDermott). But they're bottom of the roster, depth guys.

Edited May 8 by BillsFanForever19

[Buffalo_Stampede]

48 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

Why are you freaking out about that ? 

 

Many, including me, believe that we need another good WR and the off season isn't done yet 

Another good WR? Who exactly are you pushing out of the top 3?

 

Basically you’re arguing that Brandon Beane is going to realize he signed the wrong WR and drafted the wrong WR before training camp.

 

Edited May 8 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Fan in Chicago]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Another good WR? Who exactly are you pushing out of the top 3?

 

Basically you’re arguing that Brandon Beane is going to realize he signed the wrong WR and drafted the wrong WR before training camp.

Coleman hasn't played a down yet.  We all hope he plays well but there is no guarantee.  And even if he is good,  he is still a rookie.

You may trust the WR room today,  I don't. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

26 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

No. Samuel wasn't pushed to the Slot outside of necessity. That's his best fit and where he's found success over his career. That's why he's there and that's why you play him there. Their outside guys were Terry McLaurin and Jahan Dotson. Curtis Samuel was already in house when they Drafted Dotson to start on the Outside because Samuel is not someone you play even half the time there. Think of him as a high end gadget player, that works predominantly inside.

 

Ultimately, Samuel (GREATLY) replaces Harty as an all over the field weapon. Hollins replaces Sherfield. Coleman replaces one of Diggs or Davis. Shakir stays where he is. We'd be solid if we still had Diggs and were just needing to replace Davis on the Outside, as we were most of the offseason. Coleman covers that. But we went into this Draft with no longer needing to replace just Davis, but Diggs and Davis instead. We did not (and quite frankly could not) do that. We have an Outside hole, simple as that. Made even worse by Coleman not being expected to start the year. And guys like Justin Shorter, Chase Claypool, and Quintez Cephus can not be relied on upon to fill that hole, in my opinion. You can keep 1 of them, maybe 2 of them if we keep 7 this year (as we have in multiple seasons under McDermott). But they're bottom of the roster, depth guys.

 

Assuming all this is correct, you're making me feel a bit frustrated. Ladd McConkey would have been a great addition as a Z receiver, and he was available at 33. But I'm not sure how the Bills could have added both McConkey and Coleman. Assuming the Bills don't do anything big between now and the trade deadline, it sounds like our biggest needs heading into next draft are likely to be a Z receiver, safety, DL, and, possibly, interior OL.