Tyler Boyd 1-year 4.5M with the Titans

[Einstein's Dog]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Because every team is in their honeymoon phase right now thinking they have a chance to win it all. But if their season starts the way I expect it to, I think by the trade deadline the new regime will recognize that they need to go all out to get a QB next year and they'll start collecting assets to make that a reality.

I think when Tenn got Ridley the writing was on the wall for DHop.   The new coach got a top WR he wants.

 

And now Tenn has Ridley, DHop, Boyd and the first round pick T Burks.  That's too much investment in the WR room.

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I think when Tenn got Ridley the writing was on the wall for DHop.   The new coach got a top WR he wants.

 

And now Tenn has Ridley, DHop, Boyd and the first round pick T Burks.  That's too much investment in the WR room.

 

I don't think we could afford him until closer to the trade deadline. According to OTC his cap hit is $18.3M this year and Tennessee only has $2M in dead cap if they trade him post-6/1. So unless I'm misunderstanding something he would count $16.3M against the cap for us in that scenario. It looks like he costs $1M per game so if we wait until say 9 games into the season we would only take a $7.3M cap hit. But who knows, maybe we could extend him right away in a way that lowers his 2024 cap hit?

[gobilz]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

so what

So buttons on your underwear 

[Chaos]

19 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I think when Tenn got Ridley the writing was on the wall for DHop.   The new coach got a top WR he wants.

 

And now Tenn has Ridley, DHop, Boyd and the first round pick T Burks.  That's too much investment in the WR room.

But did the do enough at the WR position? 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think we could afford him until closer to the trade deadline. According to OTC his cap hit is $18.3M this year and Tennessee only has $2M in dead cap if they trade him post-6/1. So unless I'm misunderstanding something he would count $16.3M against the cap for us in that scenario. It looks like he costs $1M per game so if we wait until say 9 games into the season we would only take a $7.3M cap hit. But who knows, maybe we could extend him right away in a way that lowers his 2024 cap hit?

Spotrac has his post 6/1 trade hit as $6.5M in 24 and $5.8M. So it would cost us maybe $6M in cap I think.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

36 minutes ago, Chaos said:

No team whose first pick is in the late 20's is flush with draft capital. 

That statement is just incorrect, sorry.
 

Very good chance we end up with two top 40 picks. 

 

Especially incorrect in the context of trading that draft capital for a WR who at the trade deadline will be 32.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I expect the Titans to be pretty bad this year and with a new coaching staff they aren't tied down to any player on the roster. So genuinely I think Hopkins will be one of the big names moved at the deadline. It's the last year of his contract and they need draft capital more than they need 8 extra games out of him in a transition year.

Man...

If it was financially feasible for the Bills to trade for Hopkins after June 1st (I don't know that it is, unless the Titans agreed to take on some of his salary), I'd be over the moon.

Hopkins playing X would allow Coleman to be the move/big slot player that his skillset indicates would be his best chance at immediate success, would lessen the pressure on him to produce right away, and would give him an amazing on-field presence to learn from.

Unfortunately, the Bills' actions seem to indicate that they, too, view this as a re-tool/transition year, and thus I suspect they're unlikely to want to take on a big salary for a veteran WR. Hopkins or any other vet that could be acquired via trade just doesn't feel like a move that has a realistic chance of happening. It feels like a move that a team trying to push their chips in for a title run this season would make, and the Bills -- contrary to whatever they may say -- don't seem to feel that way about their 2024 season. Whatever they say publicly, this has all the markings of a "get cheaper/younger"/soft reset year.

Alas...a boy can wish.

 

[Einstein's Dog]

24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think we could afford him until closer to the trade deadline. According to OTC his cap hit is $18.3M this year and Tennessee only has $2M in dead cap if they trade him post-6/1. So unless I'm misunderstanding something he would count $16.3M against the cap for us in that scenario. It looks like he costs $1M per game so if we wait until say 9 games into the season we would only take a $7.3M cap hit. But who knows, maybe we could extend him right away in a way that lowers his 2024 cap hit?

I don't think your take on the cap hit to us is correct.  The cap hit for Tenn does not transfer over- just like our cap hit for Diggs wasn't Houston's problem.  The salary goes in a trade which looks nice for DHop <10M.   

[Rampant Buffalo]

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think we could afford him until closer to the trade deadline. According to OTC his cap hit is $18.3M this year and Tennessee only has $2M in dead cap if they trade him post-6/1. So unless I'm misunderstanding something he would count $16.3M against the cap for us in that scenario. It looks like he costs $1M per game so if we wait until say 9 games into the season we would only take a $7.3M cap hit. But who knows, maybe we could extend him right away in a way that lowers his 2024 cap hit?

 

If you're trading for Hopkins, then that means you're taking playing time away from one of your top three receivers. (Coleman, Samuel, or Shakir.) Waiting until close to the trade deadline does two things. 1) It lessens the cap hit, as you mentioned. 2) It allows you to see what you have or don't have in your top 3, before deciding whether to make that trade. If all three of Coleman, Samuel, and Shakir play at or above expectations, then maybe you decide that the cap space and draft capital you'd lose by acquiring Hopkins could better be used elsewhere.

 

[TBBills Fan]

2 hours ago, Einstein&#x27;s Dog said:

I want him before then, get DHop after June 1st.

 

Hoping it's all preplanned.  Tenn just got rid of some salary if they move DHop for Boyd.  And we could throw Tenn a 4th, extend DHop's a year to make it 2 years

If we don't have a 300 page D-Hop thread this year I will be sad. 

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Our top 3 WRs are actually set. 

I'm actually not high on Claypool. I don't think he's making the cut. 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

If you're trading for Hopkins, then that means you're taking playing time away from one of your top three receivers. (Coleman, Samuel, or Shakir.) Waiting until close to the trade deadline does two things. 1) It lessens the cap hit, as you mentioned. 2) It allows you to see what you have or don't have in your top 3, before deciding whether to make that trade. If all three of Coleman, Samuel, and Shakir play at or above expectations, then maybe you decide that the cap space and draft capital you'd lose by acquiring Hopkins could better be used elsewhere.

 

 

Coleman won't start the year, as McDermott is notoriously slow bringing Rookies along and Beane has already said he'll "have a hard time starting at the beginning of the year". Samuel is not an Outside WR. He has flexibility to play there occasionally in certain packages and matchups. But he's 75% from the Inside or coming out of the Backfield. When asked about Samuel, he's referred to him as simply as a "weapon" and not strictly in one spot. He'll be used all over the field. Shakir is a pure slot. Regardless of how good of a Slot you are, that doesn't mean you move to the Outside. It's a completely different game and style of play. One that Shakir is not made for physically or stylistically, which is why he fell to the 5th Round for us, and also didn't produce there when given minimal reps in the Playoffs when we were hurting on the Outside.

 

Right now, we're looking at Mack Hollins and Justin Shorter (or Chase Claypool) taking the majority of starting reps on the Outside. With the occasional Coleman snaps while he gets his sea legs under him and the occasional (but not regular) Outside snaps from Samuel - with Shakir exclusively on the Inside, Kincaid working mainly on the inside and occasionally off the line as a TE, and Samuel working all over the field, but the majority inside.

 

But when it comes to guys you can exclusively or predominantly work the perimeter, we don't have much to start the year.

 

By the end of the year (hopefully sooner, rather than later) Coleman will lock down one of the spots. But even then you're still looking at Mack Hollins as predominantly a starter on the other. And in 4 WR sets, especially to start the year? Hooo boy! The inside 2 spots will look great, but the Outside? Yick.

Edited May 7 by BillsFanForever19

[Einstein's Dog]

59 minutes ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

If you're trading for Hopkins, then that means you're taking playing time away from one of your top three receivers. (Coleman, Samuel, or Shakir.) Waiting until close to the trade deadline does two things. 1) It lessens the cap hit, as you mentioned. 2) It allows you to see what you have or don't have in your top 3, before deciding whether to make that trade. If all three of Coleman, Samuel, and Shakir play at or above expectations, then maybe you decide that the cap space and draft capital you'd lose by acquiring Hopkins could better be used elsewhere.

 

Yes, you can call it taking away playing time or call it breaking in a rookie.  And the time you want your rookie to have his least amount of playing time is the beginning of the season.  That's when a big learning curve takes place.

 

Secondly, the Bills WR room is paper thin.  Not having 4 decent WR's is grounds to have someone sue Beane, just criminally bad.

 

And if you wait you run the risk of Tenn having a WR injury and no longer wanting to deal.

 

A trade should be done prior to the season.  The DHop possibility was already mentioned and the odds increased with this move.  But Beane is doing his due diligence.  What's it take to get DHop vs DK Metcalf vs D Adams.  One of them before the season begins - lets not worry about stunting the development of our secondary WRs.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Einstein&#x27;s Dog said:

I don't think your take on the cap hit to us is correct.  The cap hit for Tenn does not transfer over- just like our cap hit for Diggs wasn't Houston's problem.  The salary goes in a trade which looks nice for DHop <10M.   

 

I won't pretend to completely understand this stuff. I just know that someone has to pay the bill, and if Tennessee retains $2M in dead cap of their own (according to OTC, perhaps they are wrong) that must mean someone else is paying the other $16M. With Diggs the dead cap hit went entirely on our side.

[FLFan]

26 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Coleman won't start the year, as McDermott is notoriously slow bringing Rookies along and Beane has already said he'll "have a hard time starting at the beginning of the year". Samuel is not an Outside WR. He has flexibility to play there occasionally in certain packages and matchups. But he's 75% from the Inside or coming out of the Backfield. When asked about Samuel, he's referred to him as simply as a "weapon" and not strictly in one spot. He'll be used all over the field. Shakir is a pure slot. Regardless of how good of a Slot you are, that doesn't mean you move to the Outside. It's a completely different game and style of play. One that Shakir is not made for physically or stylistically, which is why he fell to the 5th Round for us, and also didn't produce there when given minimal reps in the Playoffs when we were hurting on the Outside.

 

Right now, we're looking at Mack Hollins and Justin Shorter (or Chase Claypool) taking the majority of starting reps on the Outside. With the occasional Coleman snaps while he gets his sea legs under him and the occasional (but not regular) snaps from Samuel - with Shakir exclusively on the Inside, Kincaid working mainly on the inside and occasionally off the line as a TE, and Samuel working all over the field.

 

But when it comes to guys you can exclusively or predominantly work the perimeter, we don't have much to start the year. By the end of the year (hopefully sooner, rather than later) Coleman will lock down one of the spots. But even then you're still looking at Mack Hollins as predominantly a starter on the other.

I think what McDermott is really notorious for is making rookies earn their spot by out performing the others, particularly veterans, ahead of them. Rookies have started and will continue to start.  In the case of Coleman, let’s face it, there is not much ahead of him.  The Bills have a big problems indeed if he cannot beat out the other X WR candidates on the roster.  There is no entrenched starter.  Coleman is by all accounts and observation so far a very smart kid, a hard worker, and a student of the game.  He is going to start at the X.  Beane did indicate where else they may play him depends on how fast he picks it up and his comfort level with other roles, so I expect we will see him exclusively at X to start the year.  
 

As for the rest, there is no Diggs equivalent on the roster to eat up snaps at the Z spot obviously.  Both Shakir and Samuel are going to get plenty of work at both spots.  The mix and snap percentages are going to be game plan and matchup dependent.  Kincaid is obviously the Big Slot/Move player and he will primarily play inside.  They are auditioning for a backup X who can also play special teams and speed receiver who can play either slot or Z, and possibly one other WR who can fill multiple roles.  
 

That is my view of it anyway at this point.  

[Utah John]

I think Beane is done wrt WRs.  What you see is what we're getting.  He's intent on having a pile of cash in 2025 to go fill any holes that appear in 2024.  Adding an expensive, older veteran is just moving in the wrong direction.

[Rampant Buffalo]

31 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Coleman won't start the year, as McDermott is notoriously slow bringing Rookies along and Beane has already said he'll "have a hard time starting at the beginning of the year". Samuel is not an Outside WR. He has flexibility to play there occasionally in certain packages and matchups. But he's 75% from the Inside or coming out of the Backfield. When asked about Samuel, he's referred to him as simply as a "weapon" and not strictly in one spot. He'll be used all over the field. Shakir is a pure slot. Regardless of how good of a Slot you are, that doesn't mean you move to the Outside. It's a completely different game and style of play. One that Shakir is not made for physically or stylistically, which is why he fell to the 5th Round for us, and also didn't produce there when given minimal reps in the Playoffs when we were hurting on the Outside.

 

Right now, we're looking at Mack Hollins and Justin Shorter (or Chase Claypool) taking the majority of starting reps on the Outside. With the occasional Coleman snaps while he gets his sea legs under him and the occasional (but not regular) snaps from Samuel - with Shakir exclusively on the Inside, Kincaid working mainly on the inside and occasionally off the line as a TE, and Samuel working all over the field.

 

But when it comes to guys you can exclusively or predominantly work the perimeter, we don't have much to start the year. By the end of the year (hopefully sooner, rather than later) Coleman will lock down one of the spots. But even then you're still looking at Mack Hollins as predominantly a starter on the other.

 

First off, I agree with you on Shakir. He is strictly a slot WR, and I don't see him as a contributor on the outside. That said, I like Shakir as a slot. He may not have Cole Beasley's route running ability, but at least his catch percentage is refreshingly high. If you have someone like Shakir in the slot, you don't need to spend big bucks on some other slot receiver.

 

But, the Bills spent some decent cash on Curtis Samuel. If, like Shakir, Samuel is also strictly a slot, then signing him was a mistake. Giving Samuel the contract he got makes sense only if he can be productive as a Z receiver. With the Bills' cap situation, they simply don't have the luxury of giving out Curtis Samuel type contracts for the purpose of having a redundancy of slot receivers.

 

I don't think Beane is going to automatically write off the Curtis Samuel signing as a failure, before he's taken a single snap in a Bills uniform. Instead, I expect him to be given the opportunity to show what he can do, as a Z receiver. If he doesn't achieve much in that role, then maybe Beane picks up the phone and asks about what it would take to acquire Hopkins.

 

As for Coleman: my understanding is that he only has two years of football experience. I expect him to improve upon his biggest weakness (route running and gaining separation). That improvement might not happen right away, and I expect him to be a better player in week 17 than he is in week 1. If you need a guy to carry you through the first half of the season while Coleman learns, I'd be fine using some resources on that. Some. But not necessarily the type of resources you'd need to acquire and keep Hopkins.

 

[Utah John]

3 minutes ago, Rampant Buffalo said:

 

As for Coleman: my understanding is that he only has two years of football experience. I expect him to improve upon his biggest weakness (route running and gaining separation).

 

This is the part of Diggs' game we'll miss the most. Diggs is an elite route runner and that's one reason Beane brought him in from the Vikings. Route running is probably the thing that Diggs does best, out of all aspects of his game.  My point is, don't expect Coleman to have this skill, at least not to start with.  I think the Bills will be using numbers to try to get at least one of their receivers open on every play, instead of expecting someone (i.e. Diggs) to be open on almost every play. 

[Rampant Buffalo]

10 minutes ago, Utah John said:

This is the part of Diggs' game we'll miss the most. Diggs is an elite route runner and that's one reason Beane brought him in from the Vikings. Route running is probably the thing that Diggs does best, out of all aspects of his game.  My point is, don't expect Coleman to have this skill, at least not to start with.  I think the Bills will be using numbers to try to get at least one of their receivers open on every play, instead of expecting someone (i.e. Diggs) to be open on almost every play. 

 

You inadvertently hit a bit of a sore spot. Going into the draft, my guy was Ladd McConkey. He is exceptional at running routes and getting open. Really top notch. Also, McConkey gives you a 4.3 40, pretty good size, and great hands. I would have been thrilled to see him become a Bill.

 

But, I acknowledge there are aspects of Coleman as a prospect which are better than McConkey. Coleman is outstanding at defeating press coverage, and he's great at making contested catches--neither of which is true for McConkey. Also the Bills had a need for an X receiver. McConkey is a Z, Coleman is an X.

 

As for Diggs: we might very well miss his contributions in September and October. We will not miss his contributions in the playoffs. There is nothing for us to miss.

[TBBills Fan]

We should have donated to his charity instead of Dalton's and he would be here!

 

I blame you all!