Xavier Worthy injured during 1st practice as a Chief

[bobobonators]

20 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

At least a couple of things missing from that play, though... pads, for starters...

 

I know there are people on here who think we should have gotten Worthy instead of Coleman. But I couldn't disagree more. We needed bigger, more aggressive, and tougher receivers. We needed bullies. That's who we went after. That's who Coleman is. That is very much not what Worthy is.

Adding to that, look at the previous 40 time record holders - basically none of them went on to be successful in the NFL. Being a track star doesn’t automatically translate to NFL success. 
 

Outside of Chris Johnson it’s a who’s who of irrelevancy 
 

 

Edited July 22 by bobobonators

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

16 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Adding to that, look at the previous 40 time record holders - basically none of them went on to be successful in the NFL. Being a track star doesn’t automatically translate to NFL success. 
 

Outside of Chris Johnson it’s a who’s who of irrelevancy 
 

 

 

Johnson ran his at 5'11 197 - small for a running back at the time (and even by many of todays standards), but i'd say within 10 LBs of ideal.  

 

Worthy ran his at 5'11 165 - among the lightest players in the NFL currently, and probably 25 lb's short of someone like tyreek who is already undersized at the position.  Broncos signed some tiny UDFA, and theres the CB forbes from last year that come to mind as the smallest in the league.  Size and strength aren't everything, but that is a very slight build and adding to it would very likely affect the speed trait that they wanted when they drafted him.  Just feels like an injury risk to me.  

Edited July 22 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[bobobonators]

3 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Johnson ran his at 5'11 197 - small for a running back at the time (and even by many of todays standards), but i'd say within 10 LBs of ideal.  

 

Worthy ran his at 5'11 165 - among the lightest players in the NFL currently, and probably 25 lb's short of someone like tyreek who is already undersized at the position.  Broncos signed some tiny UDFA, and theres the CB forbes from last year that come to mind as the smallest in the league.  Size and strength aren't everything, but that is a very slight build and adding to it would very likely affect the speed trait that they wanted when they drafted him.  Just feels like an injury risk to me.  

Im 5’9” 175ish. Workout regularly. Above average muscle tone. I would die in the NFL. My bones would shatter instantly.  1 hit. Dead. 

[bobobonators]

10 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Johnson ran his at 5'11 197 - small for a running back at the time (and even by many of todays standards), but i'd say within 10 LBs of ideal.  

 

Worthy ran his at 5'11 165 - among the lightest players in the NFL currently, and probably 25 lb's short of someone like tyreek who is already undersized at the position.  Broncos signed some tiny UDFA, and theres the CB forbes from last year that come to mind as the smallest in the league.  Size and strength aren't everything, but that is a very slight build and adding to it would very likely affect the speed trait that they wanted when they drafted him.  Just feels like an injury risk to me.  

I look back on a back like Ray Rice who was a measly 5’8” the dude was +200lbs. Built like a bowling ball. Tyreek Hill is built. He’s thick. His lower body can take a beating bc his legs are thick. Ekeler is 5’9 +200lbs. His legs are as wide as my waist. These dudes are built like bowling balls. There is a pattern in body type that translates to success in NFL. 
 

At 165lbs those bones don’t have much meat on them. I cringe just imaging what a hit would feel like from an NFL caliber LB. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, bobobonators said:

Im 5’9” 175ish. Workout regularly. Above average muscle tone. I would die in the NFL. My bones would shatter instantly.  1 hit. Dead. 

 

I'm 5'8" 210 and i say the same thing.  Beyond injury risk... functionally.. a player that light can't be as effective against press coverage, physical man coverage in general, or as a blocker.  Even the best techniques are going to be limited by your size.  

[Alphadawg7]

How many of you watched the show "Receiver" yet on Netflix?  If you haven't, go watch like the first 3 episodes.  Go look at the pain Kittle, Davante, Deebo, and St. Brown are in off routine and regular hits who are all considerably stronger and bigger than Worthy.  Go see what it really is like for receivers in the NFL on a daily basis...it gives you great insight.  Then ask yourself if Worthy's light frame is going to be physical enough to not only play within that physicality but also endure it.  It is a real question mark for him.

 

Worthy got to go to a place where he can be WR3 behind the bigger guys of Kelce and Rice.  In Buffalo, we were more shopping for a potential WR1 and a guy who can bring some size and toughness to the outside spot as the other top 2 guys were Shakir and Samuel, neither seen as big enough to be primarily on the outside.

 

So I just don't get how people can't see the difference between how one situation may good for said player, but that doesn't mean every situation would have been either.  

 

PS:  It is also just pads and shorts, we have seen guys who don't make our rosters or play very little if they do make eye popping plays in shorts here...it doesn't mean a lot at this stage.  

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

How many of you watched the show "Receiver" yet on Netflix?  If you haven't, go watch like the first 3 episodes.  Go look at the pain Kittle, Davante, Deebo, and St. Brown are in off routine and regular hits who are all considerably stronger and bigger than Worthy.  Go see what it really is like for receivers in the NFL on a daily basis...it gives you great insight.  Then ask yourself if Worthy's light frame is going to be physical enough to not only play within that physicality but also endure it.  It is a real question mark for him.

 

Worthy got to go to a place where he can be WR3 behind the bigger guys of Kelce and Rice.  In Buffalo, we were more shopping for a potential WR1 and a guy who can bring some size and toughness to the outside spot as the other top 2 guys were Shakir and Samuel, neither seen as big enough to be primarily on the outside.

 

So I just don't get how people can't see the difference between how one situation may good for said player, but that doesn't mean every situation would have been either.  

 

PS:  It is also just pads and shorts, we have seen guys who don't make our rosters or play very little if they do make eye popping plays in shorts here...it doesn't mean a lot at this stage.  

I am old enough to remember the same questions about Devonta Smith and his frame. 
 

Worthy wasn’t the same level of prospect and I think he’s even slighter than DeVonta, but Smith is a borderline WR1 in this league. Time will tell if Worthy is more Smith or more Goodwin.

 

Either way, I mislike the idea of an elite deep threat on a conference rival. Hopefully he sucks.

[H2o]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I am old enough to remember the same questions about Devonta Smith and his frame. 
 

Worthy wasn’t the same level of prospect and I think he’s even slighter than DeVonta, but Smith is a borderline WR1 in this league. Time will tell if Worthy is more Smith or more Goodwin.

 

Either way, I mislike the idea of an elite deep threat on a conference rival. Hopefully he sucks.

I understand your point on his build, but Smith was cooking everybody in college and that was while playing an SEC schedule. It's why he won the Heisman. Smith was also an excellent route runner coming into the league. Worthy has never been close to that on either front. 

 

Let us not forget the Chiefs just had another burner at WR, who was a bit bigger, they thought would play that deep threat role. Didn't quite work out with Mecole Hardman. 

[Alphadawg7]

38 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I am old enough to remember the same questions about Devonta Smith and his frame. 
 

Worthy wasn’t the same level of prospect and I think he’s even slighter than DeVonta, but Smith is a borderline WR1 in this league. Time will tell if Worthy is more Smith or more Goodwin.

 

Either way, I mislike the idea of an elite deep threat on a conference rival. Hopefully he sucks.

 

I mean, Worthy is a lot thinner than Devonta.  Devonta isn't big, but he has a sturdier and thicker frame than Worthy who really is one of the thinnest WR's I have seen in a long time.  Nor is Worthy the same level of prospect coming out as you mentioned.  

 

He isn't an elite deep threat though...he is a rookie with potential to be one, but he has not established that at all yet.  Also, KC's game is not the deep ball anyway, they pass more near or behind the LOS than most anyone in the league going back to when Hill was even there.

 

And nobody likes seeing a rival get weapons, agreed.  But also, who cares, that is outside of our control and pointless to dwell on it.  Who they draft is on them, it is not our GM's job to take players lower on his board and draft them to keep them from being drafted by a rival.  His job is to draft the players he feels are the best options for the team for what they are looking for based on their scouting and final board.  The only way to keep Worthy from KC was to draft him, and clearly we didn't want to draft him or would have.  

 

And look at this way...Beane literally turned the 28th pick into Keon Coleman, Ray Davis, and SPVG.  Chiefs turned their 32nd and 3rd round pick into just Xavier Worthy.  I would take Keon, Davis, and SPVG...3 players who not only could see big roles this year, but all have long term starter potential over a stick figure framed WR whose probably more a WR2 or WR3 in the NFL than he is a lead WR1.  

 

So worrying about who KC drafted is a waste of energy IMHO.  Especially for a team who has a poor track record with WR's lately.  

Edited July 22 by Alphadawg7

[Iiiiiiiiive Got a Feeeelin]

25 minutes ago, H2o said:

Didn't quite work out with Mecole Hardman. 

...or MVS. Doh!!

[Charles Romes]

If worthy adds 15 points to try to play in the NFL he becomes 4.3 and not 4.2, meaning he is another Curtis Samuel.  I’m not going to lose sleep over his training camp highlights unless he stays healthy and lights it up in the regular season.  

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I mean, Worthy is a lot thinner than Devonta.  Devonta isn't big, but he has a sturdier and thicker frame than Worthy who really is one of the thinnest WR's I have seen in a long time.  Nor is Worthy the same level of prospect coming out as you mentioned.  

 

He isn't an elite deep threat though...he is a rookie with potential to be one, but he has not established that at all yet.  Also, KC's game is not the deep ball anyway, they pass more near or behind the LOS than most anyone in the league going back to when Hill was even there.

 

And nobody likes seeing a rival get weapons, agreed.  But also, who cares, that is outside of our control and pointless to dwell on it.  Who they draft is on them, it is not our GM's job to take players lower on his board and draft them to keep them from being drafted by a rival.  His job is to draft the players he feels are the best options for the team for what they are looking for based on their scouting and final board.  The only way to keep Worthy from KC was to draft him, and clearly we didn't want to draft him or would have.  

 

And look at this way...Beane literally turned the 28th pick into Keon Coleman, Ray Davis, and SPVG.  Chiefs turned their 32nd and 3rd round pick into just Xavier Worthy.  I would take Keon, Davis, and SPVG...3 players who not only could see big roles this year, but all have long term starter potential over a stick figure framed WR whose probably more a WR2 or WR3 in the NFL than he is a lead WR1.  

 

So worrying about who KC drafted is a waste of energy IMHO.  Especially for a team who has a poor track record with WR's lately.  

I’m not worried. I just don’t want him to be successful. I hope he’s a bust, because if he’s great it sucks for us.

 

Beane is hoping he’s a bust too lol. 
 

FWIW, Mahomes has had his IAY/A drop from 9.1 in 2018 to 6.5 in 2023. Part of that is Mahomes taking more short stuff because of the way he is defended, but also because of the loss of a great deep threat.

 

If Worthy is good, I expect that number to be higher in 24, especially with Hollywood.

Edited July 22 by FireChans

[Billl]

37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I mean, Worthy is a lot thinner than Devonta.  Devonta isn't big, but he has a sturdier and thicker frame than Worthy who really is one of the thinnest WR's I have seen in a long time.  Nor is Worthy the same level of prospect coming out as you mentioned.  

 

He isn't an elite deep threat though...he is a rookie with potential to be one, but he has not established that at all yet.  Also, KC's game is not the deep ball anyway, they pass more near or behind the LOS than most anyone in the league going back to when Hill was even there.

 

And nobody likes seeing a rival get weapons, agreed.  But also, who cares, that is outside of our control and pointless to dwell on it.  Who they draft is on them, it is not our GM's job to take players lower on his board and draft them to keep them from being drafted by a rival.  His job is to draft the players he feels are the best options for the team for what they are looking for based on their scouting and final board.  The only way to keep Worthy from KC was to draft him, and clearly we didn't want to draft him or would have.  

 

And look at this way...Beane literally turned the 28th pick into Keon Coleman, Ray Davis, and SPVG.  Chiefs turned their 32nd and 3rd round pick into just Xavier Worthy.  I would take Keon, Davis, and SPVG...3 players who not only could see big roles this year, but all have long term starter potential over a stick figure framed WR whose probably more a WR2 or WR3 in the NFL than he is a lead WR1.  

 

So worrying about who KC drafted is a waste of energy IMHO.  Especially for a team who has a poor track record with WR's lately.  

What does any of this even mean?  It’s like you go point by point and make up BS facts about why the Chiefs front office is clueless. Smith is more than an inch taller than Worthy and weighed one pound more at the combine. If anything, his frame is less sturdy. 
 

Kansas City’s game hasn’t been throwing the deep ball because they don’t have the weapons despite trying with MVS, Toney, and Hardman.  Drafting Worthy is a pretty unambiguous statement that they would like to get back to having that be a credible threat. 
 

You also act like Buffalo got a third round pick from KC plus a fifth round pick (that didn’t come from Kansas City) but didn’t send them a fourth round pick in return.  

 

And oh by the way, that bad track record of WRs they’ve drafted recently includes a guy who just put up 900 yards and 7 TDs in the regular season before setting the all time rookie record for receiving in the postseason. 

[Alphadawg7]

25 minutes ago, Billl said:

You also act like Buffalo got a third round pick from KC plus a fifth round pick (that didn’t come from Kansas City) but didn’t send them a fourth round pick in return.  

 

I didn't act like that...how many times are you going to mistake what I say as if I said something else?  

 

Fact:  Bills turned their ONE pick at 28 into 3 players who have starter potential in Keon, Davis, and SPVG.  Are you disputing that?  

Fact:  Chiefs used their 1st and 3rd to get one player:  Worthy - who is projected to be a backup WR and the 4th target for the Chiefs behind Rice, Hollywood and Kelce.

 

I did not say the Bills got all the picks from KC, I said that is what Buffalo turned their one 28th pick into as OPPOSED to just drafting Worthy at 28...you know the ONLY way to assure that KC didn't draft him.  And then I showed the amount KC invested to actually get him.  

 

So we took 1 first round pick and turned it into multiple picks to get 3 potential starters...they used 2 premium picks to get 1 backup WR.  That was the point.  

Edited July 22 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn't act like that...how many times are you going to mistake what I say as if I said something else?  

 

Fact:  Bills turned their ONE pick at 28 into 3 players who have starter potential in Keon, Davis, and SPVG.  Are you disputing that?  

Fact:  Chiefs used their 1st and 3rd to get one player:  Worthy - who is projected to be a backup WR and the 4th target for the Chiefs behind Rice, Hollywood and Kelce.

 

I did not say the Bills got all the picks from KC, I said that is what Buffalo turned their one 28th pick into as OPPOSED to just drafting Worthy at 28...you know the ONLY way to assure that KC didn't draft him.  And then I showed the amount KC invested to actually get him.  

 

So we took 1 first round pick and turned it into multiple picks to get 3 potential starters...they used 2 premium picks to get 1 backup WR.  That was the point.  

 

Worthy being a backup is not a fact. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Worthy being a backup is not a fact. 

 

I didn't say it was a "Fact" he is a backup...I said "projected to be a backup".  The fact was clearly about the draft capital investment. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn't act like that...how many times are you going to mistake what I say as if I said something else?  

 

Fact:  Bills turned their ONE pick at 28 into 3 players who have starter potential in Keon, Davis, and SPVG.  Are you disputing that?  

Fact:  Chiefs used their 1st and 3rd to get one player:  Worthy - who is projected to be a backup WR and the 4th target for the Chiefs behind Rice, Hollywood and Kelce.

 

I did not say the Bills got all the picks from KC, I said that is what Buffalo turned their one 28th pick into as OPPOSED to just drafting Worthy at 28...you know the ONLY way to assure that KC didn't draft him.  And then I showed the amount KC invested to actually get him.  

 

So we took 1 first round pick and turned it into multiple picks to get 3 potential starters...they used 2 premium picks to get 1 backup WR.  That was the point.  

 

You mean like Coleman ? 

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn't say it was a "Fact" he is a backup...I said "projected to be a backup".  The fact was clearly about the draft capital investment. 

 

Okay that isn't how it read to me. I think Worthy will start. The Chiefs will play some 12 and even some 13 but they will play plenty of 11 personnel and Worthy will be one of the three "starting" receivers in that set.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Okay that isn't how it read to me. I think Worthy will start. The Chiefs will play some 12 and even some 13 but they will play plenty of 11 personnel and Worthy will be one of the three "starting" receivers in that set.

 

I can see that, but from a target share standpoint I still think no one is projecting him to be above Rice, Kelce, and Brown.  

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn't act like that...how many times are you going to mistake what I say as if I said something else?  

 

Fact:  Bills turned their ONE pick at 28 into 3 players who have starter potential in Keon, Davis, and SPVG.  Are you disputing that?  

Fact:  Chiefs used their 1st and 3rd to get one player:  Worthy - who is projected to be a backup WR and the 4th target for the Chiefs behind Rice, Hollywood and Kelce.

 

I did not say the Bills got all the picks from KC, I said that is what Buffalo turned their one 28th pick into as OPPOSED to just drafting Worthy at 28...you know the ONLY way to assure that KC didn't draft him.  And then I showed the amount KC invested to actually get him.  

 

So we took 1 first round pick and turned it into multiple picks to get 3 potential starters...they used 2 premium picks to get 1 backup WR.  That was the point.  

WTF are you talking about?  Kansas City traded picks 32, 95, and 221.  Buffalo traded picks 28, 133, and 248.  Do you think the Bills drafted some superstars with the 3rd and 7th round picks they got from Kansas City while the Chiefs just wiped their ass with the 4th and 7th round picks they got in return from Buffalo?  LOFL