Top 5 QB and Top 5 WR salary cannot coexist on a SB team

[Billl]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

rounding has nothing to do w it...if you walk through 5.25 parking spaces you are in the 6th space

You’re not looking at this correctly.  His average cap hit over that stretch is 5.25, but that makes him easily one of the top 5 cap hits overall during that period.  It’s not like whomever has the highest overall hit is going to be the top hit every season, thus averaging 1.  If a player had the highest cap hit in the league 3 times and the second highest hit once over a 4year period, he’d average 1.25, but he’d still have the highest overall hit.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Yup. Also he didn’t look at the Eagles who have the 4th highest paid QB to go along with WRs who rank 1st and 6th by AAV. They haven’t won the SB since the 2017 season, but they should have in 2022 and they will compete for it again this year. 

 

We’ll see where the Eagles end up this year - Hurts cap hit isn’t at its max yet and yes I knew where Allen was - Diggs as well.  
 

As soon as Allen’s cap hit ballooned Diggs is gone (I know other factors led to this).  As soon as Mahomes salary hit, Hill was gone.  

 

 

The JJ, Chase, Waddle, and Higgins contracts are going to tell us a lot.  
 

If you have a top 3 QB in the game getting paid like it teams need to make sure 20 percent of the cap isn’t on WRs and the QB.  No chance that team is winning a SB if they do.  
 

The Dolphins have one more good shot. 
 

The Bengals same.  

 

Same with the Eagles, Lions, 49ers.  
 

The Bills had their shot and now the reboot is here - it actually started some last season. 
 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

We’ll see where the Eagles end up this year - Hurts cap hit isn’t at its max yet and yes I knew where Allen was - Diggs as well.  
 

As soon as Allen’s cap hit ballooned Diggs is gone (I know other factors led to this).  As soon as Mahomes salary hit, Hill was gone.  

 

 

The JJ, Chase, Waddle, and Higgins contracts are going to tell us a lot.  
 

If you have a top 3 QB in the game getting paid like it teams need to make sure 20 percent of the cap isn’t on WRs and the QB.  No chance that team is winning a SB if they do.  
 

The Dolphins have one more good shot. 
 

The Bengals same.  

 

Same with the Eagles, Lions, 49ers.  
 

The Bills had their shot and now the reboot is here - it actually started some last season. 
 

Again I have to reiterate - Allen has never had a top 3 cap hit. He's never had a top5 cap hit. He's never even been close tbh

 

 

[BarleyNY]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

We’ll see where the Eagles end up this year - Hurts cap hit isn’t at its max yet and yes I knew where Allen was - Diggs as well.  
 

As soon as Allen’s cap hit ballooned Diggs is gone (I know other factors led to this).  As soon as Mahomes salary hit, Hill was gone.  

 

 

The JJ, Chase, Waddle, and Higgins contracts are going to tell us a lot.  
 

If you have a top 3 QB in the game getting paid like it teams need to make sure 20 percent of the cap isn’t on WRs and the QB.  No chance that team is winning a SB if they do.  
 

The Dolphins have one more good shot. 
 

The Bengals same.  

 

Same with the Eagles, Lions, 49ers.  
 

The Bills had their shot and now the reboot is here - it actually started some last season. 
 

 

Why the steadfast assertion that a team can’t spend on a top QB (I see you’ve moved that up to top 3) and a top WR? Teams obviously can do that and be successful, especially if they are willing to aggressively spend like the Eagles are. Those aren’t the only two high dollar premium positions in the NFL. In addition to the ability and willingness to spend cash, the key is drafting well. If a team can do that, then they can stay on top.

[ProcessTruster]

23 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Closest I’ve found is Stafford and Kupp.  
 

But the Rams swapped out Goff for Stafford and had plenty in place.  
 

I think the simple answer for those wondering what’s going on in the hunt for WRs like Higgins and Ayiuk are pipe dreams.  
 

You cannot build a SB roster with top WR and top QB money.  You will be depleted in areas that actually matter in winning.  
 

The trenches. 
 

That’s the fan disconnect.  However, that’s why you’re right to want to get one on a rookie deal and why it’s so vital to hit on them in the draft.  
 

 

But it appears this is a league wide approach to the cap.  Cousins is gone in Minnesota as they prepare to pay JJ.  Higgins and Aiyuk this is 100 percent the last year on their teams.  
 

Don’t be shocked if this is Goff’s last year in Detroit.  
 

Just looks like the Chiefs were ahead of the curve with Hill and we were 1 year too late with Diggs.  Unfortunately one of Coleman’s years has Diggs dead cap.  I don’t know how there are still Diggs apologists left.  
 

 

well said... there are no 'dream teams" to be built with today's cap

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Why the steadfast assertion that a team can’t spend on a top QB (I see you’ve moved that up to top 3) and a top WR? Teams obviously can do that and be successful, especially if they are willing to aggressively spend like the Eagles are. Those aren’t the only two high dollar premium positions in the NFL. In addition to the ability and willingness to spend cash, the key is drafting well. If a team can do that, then they can stay on top.

 

My point was about Allen being the best QB in the league

And btw, because of how fluid QB Contracts have been with a new top one every year, it doesn’t mean that bc Allen is now 9th highest paid ….. that still means you will not see this team hand out a top 5 WR contract as he’s being paid as such.  
 

No my OP title of this thread isn’t meant to be exact.  Rather, do you get the point?  

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

My point was about Allen being the best QB in the league

And btw, because of how fluid QB Contracts have been with a new top one every year, it doesn’t mean that bc Allen is now 9th highest paid ….. that still means you will not see this team hand out a top 5 WR contract as he’s being paid as such.  
 

No my OP title of this thread isn’t meant to be exact.  Rather, do you get the point?  

 

I get what you’re saying. It’s just wrong. Teams that are willing to spend absolutely can afford to pay a top QB and a top WR. The Eagles are paying a QB and TWO WRs top money. 

Edited May 5 by BarleyNY

[Richard Noggin]

17 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

3 out of the 5 made it to a SB... So....

 

That's for sure relevant. Losing Super Bowls, however, tends to be a setback that carries over into the following season, doesn't it? Not a lot of runners-up are remembered fondly as excellent teams. 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I get what you’re saying. It’s just wrong. Teams that are willing to spend absolutely can afford to pay a top QB and a top WR. The Eagles are paying a QB and TWO WRs top money. 

 

But they don’t kick in as top 5 money until 2026:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/cap/_/year/2026/sort/cap_total

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

Some GMs, I'm told, have cap allocation charts.  They examine the value of each position group and allocate each group a different percentage of the cap.  

 

It's not a hard budget - more of an ideal that's very situationally dependent.  For example, if your QB is on a rookie contract, you can temporarily allocate more to other position groups.  

 

If Beane has an allocation chart, it would be interesting to see how much he allocates to each position.  

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

2 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

That's for sure relevant. Losing Super Bowls, however, tends to be a setback that carries over into the following season, doesn't it? Not a lot of runners-up are remembered fondly as excellent teams. 

 

What does this have to do with what the OP is stating? 

 

right in the title thread it says "Top 5 QB and Top 5 WR salary cannot coexist on a SB team" 3 out of the 5 teams made it to a SB, 1 of them won it all and the 2 others are vying for a SB. All those teams will have top QB money to go along with top WR money. Josh Allen is the 9th highest paid QB in football so he isn't even top 5, just so you know I'm not trying to argue with you I'm just showing the OP that not only is it possible it's being done multiple times. 

[BullBuchanan]

On 5/4/2024 at 3:57 PM, Big Blitz said:

 

Yea if I saw what was enough to trade him 24 in 23, I’d have done it.  Regardless how it affected our SB chances for 23.  
 

He proved in 23 and at the end of the season he wanted out.

 

Other than Nukua there weren’t any WRs to be had to replace Diggs in the draft. 

You think Nacua would have been a target to replace Diggs had he been dealt last year?

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

But they don’t kick in as top 5 money until 2026:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/cap/_/year/2026/sort/cap_total

 

 

 

Don’t get caught up in the current cap numbers. Look at cash payouts for an accurate picture. The Eagles are one of the most aggressive teams with respect to managing the cap so their cash payouts are high compared to cap hits due to contract structuring. For example, Hurts is getting $40M in cash this season, but his cap number is only $13.6M. Brown is $21M cash vs $11.9M cap and Smith is $21.4M cash vs $8.1M cap. Tre had $82.4M in cash for those players versus $33.6M in 2024 cap charges. Cash payouts to those three players equate to 32.3% of this year’s cap number. The Eagles are just being very aggressive in kicking the cap hits down the road. That helps them outspend teams unable or unwilling to do that too. 

[ColoradoBills]

13 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Some GMs, I'm told, have cap allocation charts.  They examine the value of each position group and allocate each group a different percentage of the cap.  

 

It's not a hard budget - more of an ideal that's very situationally dependent.  For example, if your QB is on a rookie contract, you can temporarily allocate more to other position groups.  

 

If Beane has an allocation chart, it would be interesting to see how much he allocates to each position.  

 

No doubt teams keep an eye on positional spending and rate it to worth of position but it's a fluid situation.

 

SF has a positional cap of less than $5M for QB this season.

They also have the highest cap hit for DL in the league with $76M.

SF's situation allows them to do that.

 

Allocating cap dollars vs positions is constantly changing on all teams as their situations change.

The "Beane counters" on the Bills are not just looking at the cap this year but years down the road.

Currently the Bills are #29th in OL spending.  That is going to change a lot in the next 2 years.

[hondo in seattle]

14 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

No doubt teams keep an eye on positional spending and rate it to worth of position but it's a fluid situation.

 

SF has a positional cap of less than $5M for QB this season.

They also have the highest cap hit for DL in the league with $76M.

SF's situation allows them to do that.

 

Allocating cap dollars vs positions is constantly changing on all teams as their situations change.

The "Beane counters" on the Bills are not just looking at the cap this year but years down the road.

Currently the Bills are #29th in OL spending.  That is going to change a lot in the next 2 years.

 

It helps that Torrence is on a rookie contract but the fact that Bills are 29th in OL spending is concerning to me.

 

The Bills invest heavily in the body of Josh Allen but they don't invest in a bodyguard.  

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

It helps that Torrence is on a rookie contract but the fact that Bills are 29th in OL spending is concerning to me.

 

The Bills invest heavily in the body of Josh Allen but they don't invest in a bodyguard.  

 

But it is not the current cap allocated $'s on any year that causes concern.  Dawkins did an extension and is coming in cheap this year.

McGovern and Edwards are currently fixed, and Brown has not extended yet.  Add in the rookie C (who hopefully ends up starting soon) and Beane

is putting "resources" in the position.

 

The Bills are reaping some cap benefit this season.  But they have to look forward to when Brown signs and McGovern in his last

contract year in 2025.  Let alone trying to lock up Torrence at the end of 2025 (or 2026).  

 

This is what I mean by not looking at a snapshot of the spending, it's way too fluid looking forward.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

But it is not the current cap allocated $'s on any year that causes concern.  Dawkins did an extension and is coming in cheap this year.

McGovern and Edwards are currently fixed, and Brown has not extended yet.  Add in the rookie C (who hopefully ends up starting soon) and Beane

is putting "resources" in the position.

 

The Bills are reaping some cap benefit this season.  But they have to look forward to when Brown signs and McGovern in his last

contract year in 2025.  Let alone trying to lock up Torrence at the end of 2025 (or 2026).  

 

This is what I mean by not looking at a snapshot of the spending, it's way too fluid looking forward.

 

Which is why positional group cap allocation will always be an ideal.  And why some GM's suck.  With so much fluidity, not to mention uncertainty, it's challenging to build and sustain a good roster.  

 

Beane moves since he came onboard have certainly created a better roster, though not a championship one.  And now we find ourselves in 2024 in a bit of cap hell because of contract decisions made years ago.  But, on the whole, I appreciate what he's carefully attempting to do this year to keep us competitive in the short-term while managing the long-term.  

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Which is why positional group cap allocation will always be an ideal.  And why some GM's suck.  With so much fluidity, not to mention uncertainty, it's challenging to build and sustain a good roster.  

 

Beane moves since he came onboard have certainly created a better roster, though not a championship one.  And now we find ourselves in 2024 in a bit of cap hell because of contract decisions made years ago.  But, on the whole, I appreciate what he's carefully attempting to do this year to keep us competitive in the short-term while managing the long-term.  

 

Agree.

I know the WR thing is tough for us fans.  I too would like more talent.  But that being said I am holding out hope that this year OL will be the

best in front of Josh Allen in his career.  Everyone will be watching Coleman and Samuels in camp (as will I), but I so want to see if VPG can

impress enough to get the lion share of starts during the upcoming season.

Brown, Torrence, (a surprising VPG), McGovern Dawkins, as starters would be wonderful for me.

 

I want to see what Josh Allen can do when he has time to stand in the pocket more than scramble around buying time.

I think he can tear it up with the ball-catchers currently on this team.

 

Is it too early to write to Santa?

 

[Mango]

On 5/4/2024 at 4:31 PM, Big Blitz said:

Closest I’ve found is Stafford and Kupp.  
 

But the Rams swapped out Goff for Stafford and had plenty in place.  
 

I think the simple answer for those wondering what’s going on in the hunt for WRs like Higgins and Ayiuk are pipe dreams.  
 

You cannot build a SB roster with top WR and top QB money.  You will be depleted in areas that actually matter in winning.  
 

The trenches. 
 

That’s the fan disconnect.  However, that’s why you’re right to want to get one on a rookie deal and why it’s so vital to hit on them in the draft.  
 

 

But it appears this is a league wide approach to the cap.  Cousins is gone in Minnesota as they prepare to pay JJ.  Higgins and Aiyuk this is 100 percent the last year on their teams.  
 

Don’t be shocked if this is Goff’s last year in Detroit.  
 

Just looks like the Chiefs were ahead of the curve with Hill and we were 1 year too late with Diggs.  Unfortunately one of Coleman’s years has Diggs dead cap.  I don’t know how there are still Diggs apologists left.  
 

 

 

I did a shallow dive a few seasons ago.

[The Jokeman]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:16 AM, djp14150 said:

In a salary cap structure you can pay high on one WR with a QB on full salary.  Thst means you need to sign others below market.

 

there is a window to ride a rookie QB contract where you can use that money in other positions.

 

 

Guess Cincy in trouble with money they're giving Burrow, Higgins and Chase.