Athletic article - comments from NFL people on AFC draft classes

[Einstein's Dog]

2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

For some reason. This regime just says "go do it josh".  If this keeps up, I see a scenario where Josh ends up leaving.  His only desire is a superbowl win...then more wins.

Have you been following the Bills?  The regime gave young Josh a surefire good WR in Diggs.  Then last year gave him the top/first TE in the draft.  This year they gave him a WR with their first pick. 

 

Do you really believe Josh didn't know about the Diggs situation?  It seems a large portion of that move was done for the benefit of Josh.

 

And finally, I don't think the regime is done with personnel this year.  They'll probably add another good WR for him.

 

There is no scenario with Josh leaving anytime soon.

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

my bad, im thinking 2021 lol  was the year the Colts beat us senseless on Thanksgiving (they ended up barely missing playoffs and there was a lot of relief around here)

 

none of those teams were phenomenal.  but thats the key, they were heavily flawed teams that ran the ball extremely well. you looked at their qb's and wr's and knew those guys werent going to kill you, but their run games were the type of 7th seed that could knock someone out. their run game was a MISMATCH for the new types of LB'ers S's and even a lot of these pass rush specialist IDL. a wrench in the cog of teams built to beat all the other top teams built the polar opposite.  so yes, i absolutely look forward to this team taking a Minors Degree in smashmouth run game. another tool in the bag

I think you have the wrong conclusion. Sure, a great running game can be a nice mismatch. But all those teams either got wiped or missed the playoffs because it’s not better than a great passing attack. 

[Chaos]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:36 AM, PBF81 said:

Or long-term plan is really starting to round out, at least we're getting some formal clarity.  

 

Draft the biggest arm in the game and someone that's destined for the HoF, then focus on becoming a power running team featuring a shorter passing game with a defense that washes out in the playoffs.  

 

It's a brilliant strategy some say.  

 

Good thing we have Allen's arm.  When he's 48 he'll still be able to hit all those routes.  

 

 

You left out “change the OC frequently “ 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I keep bringing this up, but in the entire league last year about 1% of passes traveled 40 yards or more in the air.  Offenses are not based on long bombs.  Allen's arm strength is shown when he can get passes into very tight windows and such.  And getting better runners will take the pressure off Josh to run, which will theoretically extend his career.

 

Mahomes has a big arm too, but the Chiefs offense is not based on long passes and they are very successful.  When are you going to realize your complaints about the offense around Josh are simply off-base?

 

Look at some info & data sometime.  

 

Compare all of Allen's TD passes to Mahones et al.

 

Watch the game videos and see who he overlooks, often missing big gains. 

 

That's not his game right now now ever has been.  That "arm strength" things is a desperate grasp to defend our methodology.

 

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

You left out “change the OC frequently “ 

 

Ahhh yes, thank you.  

 

And when you do change him, make sure that you get someone that won't question the offensive wisdom of your defensive-mindedness.  

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

Love that dig no pun intended at the end to see if Josh can raise the level of play of the people around him.
The guy made Gabe Davis a 50 million dollar free agent.
Years later there is still bitterness around this guy that other QBs just don’t get. 
Not even Hurts, Tua, or Herbert gets blamed as much as Allen does for his teammates failures. 

[billsfan89]

On 5/5/2024 at 12:38 PM, FireChans said:

I agree he wont be fired. And I agree there’s a baseline competence that makes him and McD safe.
 

If I was running the Bills and in a perfect would, I would fire him.

Serious question who would you replace McD with?

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

The 2022 Titans went 7-10 with the 28th ranked offense in points scored.

 

the 2022 Colts went 4-12-1 with the 30th ranked offense in points scored.

 

The 2022 Browns went 7-10 with the 18th ranked offense in points scored.

 

These are the teams that brought a tough running game out?

Josh needs a run game to lean on.  The narrative the last 4 years has been  “Josh is being asked to do too much” and to relieve him of that, we had to become better at running the ball and allow the run game to compliment Josh’s abilities.  That doesn’t mean we have to become a heavy run first team every week.  We had to improve the run and we have. What happens from here on out, we’ll see what Brady decides to do but we have 5-6 pretty good weapons along with a solid OL to run an offense that has the ability to succeed in many ways.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

16 hours ago, Turk71 said:

Unfortunately Coleman was not very good vs press man and single coverage.

Being bigger doesn't necessarily make you better at getting off the line, Troy Franklin at 180 lbs was top 2 yprr vs press man and top 3 vs single.  Footwork and hands are what beat the press.

Eh... that stat gets a little tricky for Coleman in my understanding. 

• Team completion percentage was 77% for oregon, vs. 60% for FSU.  Oregon had 514 passing plays, vs. 433 for FSU.  That means 137 more completed pass plays for Oregon.  
• The 3rd leading WR at FSU had 14 catches, so I'd say Coleman played more offensive snaps - therefore running more routes.  
• Florida state used 3 QBs.  Rodemaker and Glenn were very bad when playing at the end of the season.  
• Context matters.  Oregon throws a lot of short easy ones.  

[FireChans]

53 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Serious question who would you replace McD with?

I would keep McD and fire Beane. If the new GM wants a different coach, then sure.

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I would keep McD and fire Beane. If the new GM wants a different coach, then sure.

 

Who would you want to replace Beane with? Once again seriously asking because I am not going to replace a very good GM and a good head coach with someone unless there is a lot of reason to think the replacement will be better. 

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Josh needs a run game to lean on.  The narrative the last 4 years has been  “Josh is being asked to do too much” and to relieve him of that, we had to become better at running the ball and allow the run game to compliment Josh’s abilities.  That doesn’t mean we have to become a heavy run first team every week.  We had to improve the run and we have. What happens from here on out, we’ll see what Brady decides to do but we have 5-6 pretty good weapons along with a solid OL to run an offense that has the ability to succeed in many ways.  

I don’t care about narratives, I care about reality. 
 

The REALITY is that our run game was good enough last season. The pass catchers were not. 
 

The REALITY is that EVERYONE knows day 2 picks on RBs is horrific value. Yet this regime has taken 4 in 6 years. 
 

The REALITY is this regime hadn’t drafted a WR in day 2 since Zay Jones 7 years ago. That’s ass backwards. 
 

This stuff is indefensible. It demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of positional value in the modern NFL. They are dinosaurs.

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Who would you want to replace Beane with? Once again seriously asking because I am not going to replace a very good GM and a good head coach with someone unless there is a lot of reason to think the replacement will be better. 

Alec Halaby.

[Malazan]

9 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Who would you want to replace Beane with? Once again seriously asking because I am not going to replace a very good GM and a good head coach with someone unless there is a lot of reason to think the replacement will be better. 

 

That's not what we do here.. we just call for firings.. we don't actually answer the what comes next

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t care about narratives, I care about reality. 
 

The REALITY is that our run game was good enough last season. The pass catchers were not. 
 

The REALITY is that EVERYONE knows day 2 picks on RBs is horrific value. Yet this regime has taken 4 in 6 years. 
 

The REALITY is this regime hadn’t drafted a WR in day 2 since Zay Jones 7 years ago. That’s ass backwards. 
 

This stuff is indefensible. It demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of positional value in the modern NFL. They are dinosaurs.

Alec Halaby.

 

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

That's not what we do here.. we just call for firings.. we don't actually answer the what comes next

I just answered. 
 

tough scene

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t care about narratives, I care about reality. 
 

The REALITY is that our run game was good enough last season. The pass catchers were not. 
 

The REALITY is that EVERYONE knows day 2 picks on RBs is horrific value. Yet this regime has taken 4 in 6 years. 
 

The REALITY is this regime hadn’t drafted a WR in day 2 since Zay Jones 7 years ago. That’s ass backwards. 
 

This stuff is indefensible. It demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of positional value in the modern NFL. They are dinosaurs.

Alec Halaby.

Good points and I agree that we haven’t invested enough into the WR unit.  They put their bag on Diggs to be that dude and to carry some ARs that weren’t worry.  Their belief in Gabe really backfired on them.  
 

I didn’t like drafting a RB in rd 4 either, but I love the player they drafted and I think he’ll help us as a rookie .  You don’t always get that out of 4th rd picks.  Will get to see Brady’s true offense as opposed to him calling Dorsey’s playbook.  Seems like he has the vision.  Use the short to open up the deep.  I have no problem with it…. Yet
 

Time to get on board or find a new ship!  Doesn’t seem like these guys are going anywhere while Pegula is the owner.  Him leaving is your hope.  

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Look at some info & data sometime.  

 

Compare all of Allen's TD passes to Mahones et al.

 

Watch the game videos and see who he overlooks, often missing big gains. 

 

That's not his game right now now ever has been.  That "arm strength" things is a desperate grasp to defend our methodology.

 

 

 

Ahhh yes, thank you.  

 

And when you do change him, make sure that you get someone that won't question the offensive wisdom of your defensive-mindedness.  

 

 

I did look at data.  Look at the data for the number of long throws.  You are advocating for something that simply is not done in the league.  And arm strength is more than throwing it long, it is about throwing a 20 yard out hard to where the DB can’t close.  And so on.

 

You just keep beating your drum though if it makes you happy.

[Alphadawg7]

On 5/3/2024 at 7:27 AM, Logic said:

Thanks.

I always love the "comments from league execs and coaches" articles. They're awesome.

Unfortunately, the comments about Coleman and Worthy match my own feelings. And the statement "there is now a big difference in the amount of speed around Mahomes and the amount of speed around Josh Allen". Yep. Not great, Bob. 

 

You do realize we are not a slow team though right?  Shakir 4.4, Samuel 4.3, Kincaid is a mismatch, Cook is explosive, and Coleman may not be home run fast but he is short area burst fast.  

[Alphadawg7]

58 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t care about narratives, I care about reality. 
 

The REALITY is that our run game was good enough last season. The pass catchers were not. 

 

Run game lost the players that complimented Cook.  And we STILL had to rely on Josh to run too much.  It was not "good enough" going into the draft as it was just Cook and everyone and their mom (except for you apparently) knew we were drafting a RB most likely given how much RB interest they showed and signing no one to get the tougher yards Cook isn't suited for.  

 

58 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The REALITY is that EVERYONE knows day 2 picks on RBs is horrific value. Yet this regime has taken 4 in 6 years. 
 

 

Everything in this sentence is wrong.  Day 2 picks are great places for RB's to come off the board (or later).  And no this regime did not take a day 2 RB, he was a Ray Davis was a day 3 pick, so you are wrong about that too.

 

58 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The REALITY is this regime hadn’t drafted a WR in day 2 since Zay Jones 7 years ago. That’s ass backwards. 
 

This stuff is indefensible. It demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of positional value in the modern NFL. They are dinosaurs.

 

LMAO...such BS.  Bills TRADED their first for Diggs, a first they would have used on a WR.  Bills used a first on an elite TE prospect whose primary role is WR.  Bills just used a day 2 pick this year on a WR.  So in 3 of the past 5 drafts the Bills have invested a 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick on a receiving weapon for Josh.  Not to mention, they also added Shakir in the 5th two years ago too which despite your pointless rant of what pick was used has so far turned into a very promising weapon for Josh.  

 

So yeah...just about everything in your rant is wrong both factually and analytically.  

[Logic]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You do realize we are not a slow team though right?  Shakir 4.4, Samuel 4.3, Kincaid is a mismatch, Cook is explosive, and Coleman may not be home run fast but he is short area burst fast.  

Well...for one thing, you only listed two fast players: Shakir and Samuel.

Kincaid you listed as "a mismatch", Cook as "explosive", and Coleman "may not be home run fast". All of those sound like words other than "fast". 

And 4.43 is good speed for the NFL, no doubt, but it's not elite speed.

The statement you quoted and replied to -- "there is now a big difference in the amount of speed around Mahomes and the amount of speed around Josh Allen" -- seems true to me. Hollywood Brown is a 4.27 guy. Worthy ran a 4.21. Isiah Pacheco ran a 4.37. The Chiefs are faster on offense than the Bills. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll be better -- though I'd bet they will, at least in 2024 -- but they're faster.

Edited May 6 by Logic

[PBF81]

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I did look at data.  Look at the data for the number of long throws.  You are advocating for something that simply is not done in the league.  And arm strength is more than throwing it long, it is about throwing a 20 yard out hard to where the DB can’t close.  And so on.

 

You just keep beating your drum though if it makes you happy.

 

I mean I can go thru it with you if you like.  It's not really subject to o opinion or interpretation. 

 

Anyway, I see that this is getting personal for you so let's end this exchange.

 

If at a later date you'd like to go thru the video facts, let me know.  I'm happy to spend the time.  No one ever is however. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Well...for one thing, you only listed two fast players: Shakir and Samuel.

Kincaid you listed as "a mismatch", Cook as "explosive", and Coleman "may not be home run fast". All of those sound like words other than "fast". 

And 4.43 is good speed for the NFL, no doubt, but it's not elite speed.

The statement you quoted and replied to -- "there is now a big difference in the amount of speed around Mahomes and the amount of speed around Josh Allen" -- seems true to me. Hollywood Brown is a 4.27 guy. Worthy ran a 4.21. Isiah Pacheco ran a 4.37. The Chiefs are faster on offense than the Bills. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll be better -- though I'd bet they will, at least in 2024 -- but they're faster.

 

I wasn't comparing us to the Chiefs...just pointing out that we aren't "slow" either like most people think.  I listed Kincaid as a mismatch, because that is what he is.  Is he faster than a WR...no, but he is fast for a TE, and more importantly game speed fast with his fluid movement and precise routes to go with his fast TE speed.  And Cook as explosive because he is just that, he is a big play threat as a runner and receiver.  He isn't as "fast" as Pacheco, but he is fast and has great burst and acceleration.

 

What is the only sure fire way to keep Mahomes from scoring?  Keep him off the field.  This obsession to score in a play or two by some (not saying you) doesn't even make sense.  There is only 1 way we are going to beat the Chiefs and that is converting TD's when on their side of the field.  And where do you do that the most?  The redzone.  What did we just go out an and add the last 2 drafts?  Guys to elevate our play in the redzone, including running the ball better outside of Josh Allen, better trench play, etc.  

 

I personally care a LOT more about the many many many more redzone trips and converting those than I do the 1 to 3 potential 60+ yard TD passes over an entire season that are even less likely in the open air bad weather stadiums we play late in the year at home and the postseason.